Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

    Originally posted by bengali_muslima View Post
    This misconception needs to end once and for all!
    Female genital mutilation is haram. It is haram to cut off the clitoris to deprive a woman of sexual satisfaction. Also FGM wasn't allowed in prophets (pbuh) time.

    Female circumcision (unlike mutilation) is removing excess labia (not clitoris) or a tiny part of the clitoral HOOD (NOT the clitoris itself!)

    First of all, the Prophet PBUH did not forbid female circumcision (reduction of the labia or clitoral Hood), BUT he did not recommend it!! Islam does not recommend any kind of female circumcision, which includes labiaplasty (as they have no health benefits and actually have negative effects), but it strictly forbids Clitoridectomy, and 'stitching up' the vagina as these are direct violations to a woman's body, causing trauma, constant pain and deprivation of sexual pleasure.

    1) The hadith stating that circumcision is an 'honour' for women has some debates against its authenticity. (See Silsilah al-Ahadith al-Da‘ifah by al-Albani, no. 1935).
    The hadiths that talk about female circumcision/labiaplasty are (daif) WEAK, which means they cannot be used to create an Islamic ruling based on the fact that it is not known if they came from the Prophet or not, according to the hadith scholars. [Al-Shawkani, Nayl Al-awtar, Dar Al-Jeel, Beirut, 1973, vol. 1, p. 139]
    Da’if (weak) hadith cannot be used as evidence in ahkam shariah.

    2) Depriving a woman's sexual pleasure is unfair and haram in Islam - since the clitoris and labia both perceive sensation/pleasure as they contain MANY nerve endings! So cutting off any part of it will deprive a woman from pleasure - this is totally unfair And Haram/unIslamic.

    3) Imagine!!- the Prophet's HOLY wives and His HOLY daughters did not have Female circumcision, and they were HOLY! The prophet didn't even instruct or recommend them to do it.

    They are our role models. Since they didn't have female circumcision, this proves that this practise is optional, and NOT a sunnah or fardh/obligatory act!

    So how can a muslim say such an act is instructed/recommended for us UNHOLY women to do?? We are all unholy compared to the Prophet PBUH and His wives and daughters!

    In the hadith about circumcision, the Prophet PBUH did not recommend it, rather, he limited it. He Limited the woman from how much she should get cut off because she tried to go overboard and HE STOPPED HER, because removing the clitoris will damage her and deprive her from sexual pleasure. Things which aren't recommended by the prophet PBUH should not be done especially if they have no health benefits (e.g. Female circumcision).

    For men, circumcision is needed since it was practised by the prophets and sahabas and also male circumcision is commanded by hadiths (is a religious practice) and there are proven health benefits! So it is highly recommended for men to do.

    The Prophet (pbuh) told a woman: "Do not abuse (i.e. do not go to extremes in circumcising); that is better for the woman. (E.g she needs her clitoris to have sexual pleasure) and more liked by her husband." (Abu Dawud, al-Sunan, Kitab al-Adab)

    So for those who are saying that female circumcision is fardh or recommended, they are creating lies. May Allah guide them.
    -
    About IslamiQA supporting female circumcision/labiaplasty-- PLEASE don't trust that website fully, it has many MANY flaws.

    Let me point out some of its flaws with regards to female circumcision:
    IslamiQA supports female circumcision and clitoridectomy by claiming it has health 'benefits', let me quote:
    They said "It takes away excessive libido from women" <<< THIS IS unIslamic and unfair. Where in Islam does it say to cut off a womans clitoris and to deprive her of sexual pleasure? Nowhere!
    Why should a person control a woman's libido? It is her gift, her Right, and she has freewill to use it either in halal ways or haram ways, just like a man.

    If these 'sheikhs' on IslamiQA think it's right to reduce her libido, then why don't they cut off the head of a man's penis, as this will also reduce his libido?
    Islam is about fairness.

    "It prevents unpleasant odours which result from foul secretions beneath the prepuce". <<< VERY untrue! As muslims we WASH our parts after using the toilet. Women's clitoral hood is so small hardly anything gets trapped there and it is easily cleansed by a swish of water, whereas for men, they need to be circumcised since they cannot get rid of the dirt beneath the foreskin properly.
    (I was a Medical student so I know A LOT about human anatomy & hygiene).

    "It reduces the incidence of urinary tract infections" <<< ALSO FALSE. UTI is caused by E.coli which is mainly endogenous (from within the body) or due to inserting contaminated objects into the vagina, it is NOT caused by a woman's clitoral hood 'trapping' anything!!

    "It reduces the incidence of infections of the reproductive system" <<< AGAIN another lie! Reproductive infections occur when there is INVASION of an object INTO the vagina/cervical region which introduces the bacteria inside the body.
    The clitoral hood does NOT have any negative effects on a woman's health At all, and it seems IslamiQA is not a reliable source for Truthful Islamic information.
    After I saw the ridiculous stuff that website posted about fgm, I don't trust it anymore.
    [FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR="#0066ff"][SIZE=4] We're all a little broken in our own little way and the last time I checked, broken crayons still colour the same...[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

    Comment


    • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

      I have been thinking maybe it's because the people who study the deen tend to be men and that's why they say that FGM is part of the deen. Abu Mubarak, don't quote me. I don't like you. Anyone else who is up for a debate, feel free. :)
      [FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR="#0066ff"][SIZE=4] We're all a little broken in our own little way and the last time I checked, broken crayons still colour the same...[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

      Comment


      • Re: Racial Politics of FGM &amp; FGCS

        Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post
        "if you have to go to hell for this, so be it"

        you are off your rocker (or meds)

        as of late, there are kuffar who are saying fasting is harmful and want to outlaw it

        there are kuffar who say that killing animals via zabiha is harmful and want to outlaw it

        there are kuffar who say that male circumcision is harmful and want to outlaw it

        there many things we muslims do that the kuffar say are harmful, we must mind out approach to Islam and sunnah and not say "if i go to hell for it so be it"

        what type of statement is that for any muslim to make???
        No need for the personal dig. Yes I'm on meds. Not ashamed. I'm on Fluoxetine also known as Prozac. A lot of people are on anti depressants. It's not a biggie. All it does it help me cope with day to day life and keep my mood from plummeting to God knows where. It has no effect on my views on FGM.


        Alhamdulilah for my lovely Fluoxetine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoxetine

        Now, I gave you a chance to debate fgm with me, it didn't work out. There is no other reason for us to be talking now. Thank you.


        Edit: Meet the beautiful Fluoxetine/Prozac Abu Mubarak!!! I took the picture especially for you hahahah.


        Click image for larger version

Name:	rsz_imag0476.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	21.9 KB
ID:	10754279
        Last edited by HopefulOne; 04-01-15, 10:30 PM.
        [FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR="#0066ff"][SIZE=4] We're all a little broken in our own little way and the last time I checked, broken crayons still colour the same...[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

        Comment


        • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

          Originally posted by HopefulOne View Post
          I have been thinking maybe it's because the people who study the deen tend to be men and that's why they say that FGM is part of the deen. Abu Mubarak, don't quote me. I don't like you. Anyone else who is up for a debate, feel free. :)


          Abu Mubarak is a lot older than you, just keep that in mind (respect an that even if you disagree).

          Not sure what there is to debate. The fact that you said the people who study the deen tend to be men should me more of a reason as women to study the deen ourselves from the basics first and then we can understand all these seemingly confusing topics which people themselves make confusing. There are priorities in studying the deen as well so this topic probably wouldn't be on the list as it's not something obligatory (circumcision). Also we do submit to Allah and we take what the Prophet told us to take/leave etc but when we study this deen then we'll understand.

          It's not fgm, that's different. I am afraid to speak further in case i make up stuff about this deen but i will come back to you :insha: after i ask our resident scholar for clarification on this.

          لا تفكر كثيرا
          بل استغفر كثيرا

          -------------------------------------------------------
          The children need your prayers more than anyone else
          -------------------------------------------------------
          www.inheritorsofquran.wordpress.com

          Comment


          • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

            Originally posted by F_R View Post


            Abu Mubarak is a lot older than you, just keep that in mind (respect an that even if you disagree).

            Not sure what there is to debate. The fact that you said the people who study the deen tend to be men should me more of a reason as women to study the deen ourselves from the basics first and then we can understand all these seemingly confusing topics which people themselves make confusing. There are priorities in studying the deen as well so this topic probably wouldn't be on the list as it's not something obligatory (circumcision). Also we do submit to Allah and we take what the Prophet told us to take/leave etc but when we study this deen then we'll understand.

            It's not fgm, that's different. I am afraid to speak further in case i make up stuff about this deen but i will come back to you :insha: after i ask our resident scholar for clarification on this.
            I don't care if he's a lot older than me. If he's a lot older than me, he should know better than to say i'm off my rocker. Clearly his age doesn't reflect in his maturity so what should I care about his age?


            And okay.
            [FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR="#0066ff"][SIZE=4] We're all a little broken in our own little way and the last time I checked, broken crayons still colour the same...[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

            Comment


            • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

              Originally posted by HopefulOne View Post
              I don't care if he's a lot older than me. If he's a lot older than me, he should know better than to say i'm off my rocker. Clearly his age doesn't reflect in his maturity so what should I care about his age?


              And okay.
              just a bit of respect that's all, age does matter sis, we show respect to those older especially if they are significantly older. i mean we won't speak to our grandparents or parents like this so

              anyways i digress, i'll get back to you :insha:

              لا تفكر كثيرا
              بل استغفر كثيرا

              -------------------------------------------------------
              The children need your prayers more than anyone else
              -------------------------------------------------------
              www.inheritorsofquran.wordpress.com

              Comment


              • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                Originally posted by F_R View Post
                just a bit of respect that's all, age does matter sis, we show respect to those older especially if they are significantly older. i mean we won't speak to our grandparents or parents like this so

                anyways i digress, i'll get back to you :insha:
                Someone who says that a person with a diagnosed mental illness is off their rocker deserves zero respect. Don't make me angry lol. And you check that out inshaallah. I'm over the whole thing with him anyway. I don't think there is any need to keep talking about it. I'll stop mentioning him on other threads as well.
                [FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR="#0066ff"][SIZE=4] We're all a little broken in our own little way and the last time I checked, broken crayons still colour the same...[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

                Comment


                • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                  Originally posted by HopefulOne View Post
                  I have been thinking maybe it's because the people who study the deen tend to be men and that's why they say that FGM is part of the deen. Abu Mubarak, don't quote me. I don't like you. Anyone else who is up for a debate, feel free. :)
                  Have you read the thread title?

                  sigpic

                  Allahumma anta Rabbi la ilaha illa anta Khalaqtani wa ana'abduka, wa ana 'ala 'ahdika wa Wa'dika mastata'tu A'uidhubika min sharri ma sana'tu.' abu'u Laka bi ni 'matika wa'ala abu'u bidhanbi; faghfirli fa'innahu la yaghfiru-dh-dhunuba illa anta.
                  O Allah, You are my Lord, none has the right to be worshipped except You, You created me and I am Your servant and I abide to Your covenant and promise as best I can, I take refuge in You from the evil of which I have committed. I acknowledge Your favour upon me and I acknowledgemy sin, so forgive me, for verilynone can forgive sin except You.



                  We are accountable for every letter we post here, so think before posting and maintain modesty.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                    this whole thread is just:

                    alhamdulillah, I did learn something

                    :jkk: for the clarification

                    but like..... wow
                    If Allah & his Messenger :saw: ordered us to breathe in a certain way, we would say: "سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا We hear & We obey"
                    “Whoever turns away from my Sunnah has nothing to do with me.” (al-Bukhaari)

                    Comment


                    • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                      hey.. anyone know where the "Racial Politics of FGM and FGC" starts?

                      this thread is way too long to search....
                      If Allah & his Messenger :saw: ordered us to breathe in a certain way, we would say: "سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا We hear & We obey"
                      “Whoever turns away from my Sunnah has nothing to do with me.” (al-Bukhaari)

                      Comment


                      • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                        ..
                        Last edited by Bint Radical; 28-01-15, 03:52 AM.
                        If Allah & his Messenger :saw: ordered us to breathe in a certain way, we would say: "سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا We hear & We obey"
                        “Whoever turns away from my Sunnah has nothing to do with me.” (al-Bukhaari)

                        Comment


                        • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                          I don't think those who vehemently oppose all forms of female circumcision have any idea of what they are talking about.

                          Clitoral Unhooding, also referred to as Hoodectomy, is a minor feminine genital surgical procedure to remove excess Prepuce tissue—the surrounding “hood” that sheaths the clitoral node on three sides. Normally, the Prepuce is anatomically designed to offer the clitoris a degree of protection against undue abrasion—or over stimulation—and naturally retracts during sexual intercourse, thereby leaving the highly innervated surface of the clitoral node—what is commonly referred to as the exterior G-spot—or Glans, to be more exposed . . . resulting in female sexual orgasms. Sometimes however, women with small clitoral nodes or those that have excess Prepuce tissue—both common conditions—find that they can’t achieve orgasm, or have a harder time reaching climax, because the clitoris is literally covered, or restricted by too much skin tissue, thus greatly lessening tactile sensation, and/or even eliminating it entirely.

                          In another closely related condition—and as was reported by researchers at the Boston University School of Medicine—roughly 25% of all women treated for sexual dysfunction suffered from what was medically termed Clitoral Phimosis, a condition whereby the Prepuce tissue is so closely aligned with the clitoral node, there is not enough tissue flexibility to allow the clitoris to naturally move beyond the surrounding skin and protrude, permitting needed stimulation to achieve climax. This condition, also addressed through Hoodectomy, involves the surgical retraction and/or excising of tissue surrounding the Clitoris.

                          Sometimes referred to as female clitoral circumcision, the Clitoral Unhooding procedure is somewhat analogous to penile circumcision in men, although male penile circumcision is still primarily performed from a perspective of genital hygiene. In women, however, Hoodectomy is done more commonly to allow women to experience heightened arousal, by reducing the tissue that forms the hood (Prepuce) covering the clitoris . . . almost always resulting in greater, faster orgasms. To some extent it has been suspected that excessive Prepuce tissue can also result in some hygiene-related issues as well for women, giving sanctuary to increased bacterial counts, and sometimes resulting in what are commonly termed “yeast” or vaginal infections from the close proximity to the vaginal canal.

                          Also, it is important to note that Clitoral Unhooding (Hoodectomy) is sometimes mistakenly referred to as Clitoridectomy—another surgical procedure to completely remove the clitoral node—a repulsive societal/cultural procedure and insalubrious form of Female Genital Mutilation (FGM). CLITORAL UNHOODING IS NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THIS COMMONLY MISTAKEN PROCEDURE AND IS NOT A FORM OF FGM.

                          Because of the innervation of the clitoris, (neuron cell density), there are gynecologists that aren't comfortable performing the Clitoral Unhooding procedure. Many times this is due to a lack of surgical experience. Some also object to it on societal grounds—in a parallel implication that a woman’s sexual enjoyment, in or out of a relationship, is somehow considered taboo. But, there are a growing number of well-respected cosmetic gynecological surgeons and plastic surgeons with urology training that understand the need, and will perform this delicate operation with the proper training and experience needed to do an outstanding job. Many of these excellent surgeons are listed on this web site. Most important, when it comes to selecting a surgeon to do your Hoodectomy, experience is the key.

                          The reason? The clitoral node has many more nerve endings than the surrounding tissue areas—thus if not done correctly, Clitoral Unhooding can result in heightened sensation of the node by normal movements, in some cases creating considerable discomfort. However, for surgeons who perform the procedure regularly, Clitoral Unhooding can result in an increased stimulus of the clitoral node and the majority of patients who have reported on their Clitoral Unhooding procedure, most have commented favorably, saying they’ve had increased sexual climaxes (orgasms). Surgeons who do Hoodectomy usually have a method of determining the extent of sensitivity of the clitoris before proceeding by testing the area with cold and warm swabs. Patients SHOULD ONLY have this procedure performed by a surgeon who has extensive experience in this area and has performed many Clitoral Unhoodings.
                          And from the sheikh who knows it all: Sheikh Wiki Pedia

                          It is sometimes done as a form of elective surgery where the therapeutic goal is to improve the sexual functioning of the woman, and the aesthetic refinement of her vulva. It is a form of hoodplasty.

                          ...

                          The functional corrections and perceived aesthetic improvements to the vulvo-vaginal complex indicate that labiaplasty procedures have a high-rate of patient satisfaction with the surgical outcome, and a low incidence-rate of medical complications.[8][10][11][12] The study Aesthetic Labia Minora and Clitoral Hood Reduction using Extended Central Wedge Resection (2008) reported that of a 407-woman cohort, 98 per cent were satisfied with the labial reduction outcomes; that the average patient satisfaction score was 9.2 points on a 10-point scale; that 95 per cent of the women experienced reduced pudendal discomfort; that 93 per cent of the women experienced improved self esteem; that 71 per cent experienced improved sexual functioning; that 0.6 per cent (one woman) reported lessened sexual functioning; and that 4.4 per cent of the women experienced medical complications.[10]

                          Moreover, regarding the woman’s satisfaction with the plastic surgical outcome, the study Expectations and Experience of Labial Reduction: A Qualitative Study (2007) reported that the women who underwent labiaplasty had great expectations for the elimination of pubic discomfort and pain, improved cosmetic appearance of the vulva, and improved sexual functioning. Most of the women experienced improved self esteem; yet the study also reported that formal psychological counselling before the surgical operation, about what to expect and what not to expect from a labia minora and a clitoral prepuce reduction procedure, might better serve the woman (as the patient) by assisting her in establishing realistic (feasible) goals for her genital beauty and mental health, which might be derived from a genitoplastic procedure.[13][14]
                          If Allah & his Messenger :saw: ordered us to breathe in a certain way, we would say: "سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا We hear & We obey"
                          “Whoever turns away from my Sunnah has nothing to do with me.” (al-Bukhaari)

                          Comment


                          • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                            Originally posted by Bint Radical View Post
                            hey.. anyone know where the "Racial Politics of FGM and FGC" starts?

                            this thread is way too long to search....
                            :salams:

                            It starts from #732 page 19
                            "O Allah!, Forgive all my sins, great and small, the first and the last,
                            those that are apparent and those that are hidden

                            Comment


                            • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                              Originally posted by Guled View Post
                              Asalam Aleikum

                              I just wanted to bring attention to the double standards on the issue of modifications/alterations of the female genitalia that are currently practised in different parts of the world. To put it blatantly when the practice is carried out in non-western nations it is referred to as "muitilation" and no differentiation is made with regards to the different forms of modifications that exist. All of them are defined as muitilation and are considered to be a violation of womens rights. According to WHO FGM is defined as



                              From the above definition the practice is only allowed when there exists a medical reason for it but a problem arises as there is an increasing trend among women in western nations to undergo what is termed as "FGCS" which stands for " Female Genital Cosmetic Surgery". Some of the procedures include, reduction of the inner labia (labia minora), vaginal tightening, hymen “reconstruction”, clitoral “lifts & reductions", "designer vagina" etc. The reasons behind such procedures are usually the same when women decide to get a nose job or breast agumentation meaning only a tiny fraction of these modifications are medically justified but nonetheless such procedures are not termed "muitilation" even though they perfectly fit the descriptions of what is termed as FGM as defined by WHO. So one might ask what are the criteria that WHO uses to condemn the practice in africa etc but not in western nations and why is it only a "muitilation" when an african carries out this practice but when a british, american, scandanavian performs it, it is not referred to as a muitilation? In short FGCS is legal and legitimate whereas FGM is illegal, inhumane, barbaric, a violation, and a social problem that needs to resolved.

                              FGM vs FGCS




                              source: http://www.iscgmedia.com/uploads/6/0...dotter_cvs.pdf



                              Source : http://www.iscgmedia.com/uploads/6/0...dotter_cvs.pdf

                              Can you imagine it, a white western woman can choose to have a FGCS without problems but if an african ( eg somali) woman who lives in the same country chooses to do the same she will face problems because she belongs to the wrong ethnicity? What do you think ?
                              :jkk: good post!
                              If Allah & his Messenger :saw: ordered us to breathe in a certain way, we would say: "سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا We hear & We obey"
                              “Whoever turns away from my Sunnah has nothing to do with me.” (al-Bukhaari)

                              Comment


                              • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                                What do I think? Well I think you hit the nail on the head with two words "woman" and "choose" neither of which are present in the case of FGM so I do not understand this comparison with cosmetic procedure chosen by adult women and mutilation of a private part of a child.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X