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  • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

    “There is no valid hadith they can bring to support their claims [...] he who created a woman knows the benefit of that thing there, leave it. Let everybody go back and read, conduct research. Islam is Islam, it is here to preserve the interests and rights of the woman. This FGM is completely against Islam.”
    Hear hear!!!!!

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...m-islam-gambia

    In all seriousness, if I go to hell for this, so be it. I am against FGM and that is that. I also don't think it can be part of Islam as it is a harmful practice. Anyway, that article is proof that not all Muslims agree on this issue.
    Last edited by HopefulOne; 10-12-14, 03:16 AM.
    [FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR="#0066ff"][SIZE=4] We're all a little broken in our own little way and the last time I checked, broken crayons still colour the same...[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

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    • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

      Originally posted by Firecookies View Post
      Female circumcision is halal in all madhabs and it is also wajib in the shafi'i madhab.

      However, what is known as FGM is haram to my knowledge.
      Does it help you sleep better at night if you call it female circumcision? Walahi you are hilarious. Thanks for the laugh. :up:
      [FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR="#0066ff"][SIZE=4] We're all a little broken in our own little way and the last time I checked, broken crayons still colour the same...[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

      Comment


      • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

        "if you have to go to hell for this, so be it"

        you are off your rocker (or meds)

        as of late, there are kuffar who are saying fasting is harmful and want to outlaw it

        there are kuffar who say that killing animals via zabiha is harmful and want to outlaw it

        there are kuffar who say that male circumcision is harmful and want to outlaw it

        there many things we muslims do that the kuffar say are harmful, we must mind out approach to Islam and sunnah and not say "if i go to hell for it so be it"

        what type of statement is that for any muslim to make???
        .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
        نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
        دولة الإسلامية باقية





        Comment


        • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

          too many statements of kufr coming from that one
          .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
          نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
          دولة الإسلامية باقية





          Comment


          • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

            how long is HopefulOne banned for, someone needs to speak some sense into her.

            and a general advice to the rest of us - please be careful in how you approach some individuals. when someone's views may be on the fringe/edge, do not be the one who gives them an opportunity to fall over the edge.
            'And when a thing for which you ask is slow to come,
            Then know that often through delay are gifts received'
            علي الحبشي

            Comment


            • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

              Originally posted by Sirius View Post
              how long is HopefulOne banned for, someone needs to speak some sense into her.

              and a general advice to the rest of us - please be careful in how you approach some individuals. when someone's views may be on the fringe/edge, do not be the one who gives them an opportunity to fall over the edge.
              you can look at it that way

              i tend to see it as this.....when people come here, they can be anyone, muslim, jew, christian, and they can have all sorts of intents on being here

              but thru intense discussion, you can pick out those who are here to learn vs those who are here to promote an agenda

              hopefulone had an agenda, and it was not islam, and jumping on the fgm bandwagon to "save the children" was not playing well

              all muslims know that harm is forbidden in islam, we cannot even harm an animal, or a kafir (except for proper reasons)

              the title of this thread is clearly FGM is haram, but she wanted to equate what the prophet permitted to something that is haram

              we have too many people that come to this forum to allow such an attitude to prevail, muslims should be able to come to ummah.com and NOT be led astray in their thinking or day to day activities

              yes, we can discuss, debate, even argue, but at the end of the day, we are supposed to be a community that enjoins what is right and forbids what is wrong

              you can HATE female circumcision all day long, i have no problem with that, but when you say that your thoughts are better than the prophets and that if that means you go to hell for it, then so be it, a line must be drawn

              hopefulone clearly crossed that line
              .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
              نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
              دولة الإسلامية باقية





              Comment


              • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post
                i seriously doubt if you know more about female genitalia than i

                you only know about one

                and your FGM = female circumcision is the problem, they are not equal
                :shock:
                I love you, cherish you and worship you,
                Guide me on your path to your janna,
                Unite me beside you My King and all mighty,


                :love:Allah:love:

                Comment


                • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                  Originally posted by HopefulOne View Post
                  I possess one. Enough said!!!!!! Like I said, I campain about FGM so i'm pretty much an expert on it and the female genitalia. You can't really be an expert on FGM if you don't even know your female genitalia properly. Can you at least admit that I know more about fgM and female genitals ?
                  ya Allah.. what discussion is this? WHAT?? im blushing just reading it.. omg im out of here.
                  I love you, cherish you and worship you,
                  Guide me on your path to your janna,
                  Unite me beside you My King and all mighty,


                  :love:Allah:love:

                  Comment


                  • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                    Originally posted by surfinjo View Post
                    This is a dreadful crime.

                    I wonder when people will get around to stamping out the equally disgusting practice of male genital mutilation?

                    People who sexually abuse children are less than pig manure.
                    I agree with you this is a dreadful crime.
                    Islamic Forum l General Information l IT world

                    Comment


                    • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                      Originally posted by Rida12 View Post
                      I agree with you this is a dreadful crime.
                      Which one are you talking about?
                      Cirumcision or mutilation?
                      Please Please Please Make Dua for these [URL="http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?455964-Plz-Make-Dua-for-these-members&p=6715010&viewfull=1#post6715010"]Click Here[/URL] JazakAllahi

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                      • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                        I am talking about mutilation.
                        Islamic Forum l General Information l IT world

                        Comment


                        • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                          Originally posted by Mary Carol View Post
                          Young girls born in Europe to immigrant families from Africa are being subjected to ritual genital mutilation, and authorities are doing little to discourage it, a leading womens rights activist warned.

                          Somalia-born supermodel and best-selling author Waris Dirie, who has campaigned to end the disfiguring practice she suffered at age five in her homeland, said yesterday that she estimates one in every three African families living in Europe is secretly carrying out the ritual on their daughters. No official figures exist.

                          The procedure illegal in most European countries is especially prevalent in Germany and the Netherlands, as well as in Austria, where an estimated 8,000 girls born into immigrant families have been affected, Dirie said.

                          We dont know whos doing it and where, because there are few initiatives to prevent it or to encourage doctors, nurses, social workers, teachers and others to report suspected cases, Dirie said. An exception is France, where there is strong awareness and education, she said.

                          What good is a law if no one is paying attention? Dirie told reporters in Austria, where she was being honoured yesterday by a Roman Catholic mens movement for her efforts to stop the practice.

                          Islamic religious leaders are telling Europes Muslim Africans that the prophets recommend the ancient ritual, which involves the removal of the ****oris, often with a dull blade and no anaesthesia, Dirie said.

                          That is a catastrophe, she said. Every imam who is not actively against genital mutilation is guilty. Mutilation is not a tradition its a crime that must be abolished.

                          Although women generally perform the procedure, sometimes called female circumcision, men are ultimately responsible because untrimmed young women face great difficulties in African societies in finding a husband, Dirie said.

                          Between 100 million and 140 million women have undergone genital mutilation worldwide, and two million girls are at risk each year, according to the World Health Organisation, which says the practice can lead to infection, the spread of Aids and crippling physical, psychological and sexual problems.

                          The practice has been on the rise not only among immigrants in Europe but also in Australia, Canada and the US, Who says.

                          Petra Bayr, an official with Austrias Socialist Party, said the blocs women would press the government to consider genital mutilation an act of violence and legitimate grounds for women fleeing it to be granted asylum in Austria.

                          Women who are threatened with genital mutilation or have already suffered it should not have to wait for months for an open door, added Raimund Loeffelmann, a spokesman for the Catholic mens organisation honouring Dirie yesterday.

                          http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3806689
                          This misconception needs to end once and for all!
                          Female genital mutilation is haram. It is haram to cut off the clitoris to deprive a woman of sexual satisfaction. Also FGM wasn't allowed in prophets (pbuh) time.

                          Female circumcision (unlike mutilation) is removing excess labia (not clitoris) or a tiny part of the clitoral HOOD (NOT the clitoris itself!)

                          First of all, the Prophet PBUH did not forbid female circumcision (reduction of the labia or clitoral Hood), BUT he did not recommend it!! Islam does not recommend any kind of female circumcision, which includes labiaplasty (as they have no health benefits and actually have negative effects), but it strictly forbids Clitoridectomy, and 'stitching up' the vagina as these are direct violations to a woman's body, causing trauma, constant pain and deprivation of sexual pleasure.

                          1) The hadith stating that circumcision is an 'honour' for women has some debates against its authenticity. (See Silsilah al-Ahadith al-Daifah by al-Albani, no. 1935).
                          The hadiths that talk about female circumcision/labiaplasty are (daif) WEAK, which means they cannot be used to create an Islamic ruling based on the fact that it is not known if they came from the Prophet or not, according to the hadith scholars. [Al-Shawkani, Nayl Al-awtar, Dar Al-Jeel, Beirut, 1973, vol. 1, p. 139]
                          Daif (weak) hadith cannot be used as evidence in ahkam shariah.

                          2) Depriving a woman's sexual pleasure is unfair and haram in Islam - since the clitoris and labia both perceive sensation/pleasure as they contain MANY nerve endings! So cutting off any part of it will deprive a woman from pleasure - this is totally unfair And Haram/unIslamic.

                          3) Imagine!!- the Prophet's HOLY wives and His HOLY daughters did not have Female circumcision, and they were HOLY! The prophet didn't even instruct or recommend them to do it.

                          They are our role models. Since they didn't have female circumcision, this proves that this practise is optional, and NOT a sunnah or fardh/obligatory act!

                          So how can a muslim say such an act is instructed/recommended for us UNHOLY women to do?? We are all unholy compared to the Prophet PBUH and His wives and daughters!

                          In the hadith about circumcision, the Prophet PBUH did not recommend it, rather, he limited it. He Limited the woman from how much she should get cut off because she tried to go overboard and HE STOPPED HER, because removing the clitoris will damage her and deprive her from sexual pleasure. Things which aren't recommended by the prophet PBUH should not be done especially if they have no health benefits (e.g. Female circumcision).

                          For men, circumcision is needed since it was practised by the prophets and sahabas and also male circumcision is commanded by hadiths (is a religious practice) and there are proven health benefits! So it is highly recommended for men to do.

                          The Prophet (pbuh) told a woman: "Do not abuse (i.e. do not go to extremes in circumcising); that is better for the woman. (E.g she needs her clitoris to have sexual pleasure) and more liked by her husband." (Abu Dawud, al-Sunan, Kitab al-Adab)

                          So for those who are saying that female circumcision is fardh or recommended, they are creating lies. May Allah guide them.
                          -
                          About IslamiQA supporting female circumcision/labiaplasty-- PLEASE don't trust that website fully, it has many MANY flaws.

                          Let me point out some of its flaws with regards to female circumcision:
                          IslamiQA supports female circumcision and clitoridectomy by claiming it has health 'benefits', let me quote:
                          They said "It takes away excessive libido from women" <<< THIS IS unIslamic and unfair. Where in Islam does it say to cut off a womans clitoris and to deprive her of sexual pleasure? Nowhere!
                          Why should a person control a woman's libido? It is her gift, her Right, and she has freewill to use it either in halal ways or haram ways, just like a man.

                          If these 'sheikhs' on IslamiQA think it's right to reduce her libido, then why don't they cut off the head of a man's penis, as this will also reduce his libido?
                          Islam is about fairness.

                          "It prevents unpleasant odours which result from foul secretions beneath the prepuce". <<< VERY untrue! As muslims we WASH our parts after using the toilet. Women's clitoral hood is so small hardly anything gets trapped there and it is easily cleansed by a swish of water, whereas for men, they need to be circumcised since they cannot get rid of the dirt beneath the foreskin properly.
                          (I was a Medical student so I know A LOT about human anatomy & hygiene).

                          "It reduces the incidence of urinary tract infections" <<< ALSO FALSE. UTI is caused by E.coli which is mainly endogenous (from within the body) or due to inserting contaminated objects into the vagina, it is NOT caused by a woman's clitoral hood 'trapping' anything!!

                          "It reduces the incidence of infections of the reproductive system" <<< AGAIN another lie! Reproductive infections occur when there is INVASION of an object INTO the vagina/cervical region which introduces the bacteria inside the body.
                          The clitoral hood does NOT have any negative effects on a woman's health At all, and it seems IslamiQA is not a reliable source for Truthful Islamic information.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Racial Politics of FGM &amp; FGCS

                            Originally posted by Sirius View Post
                            how long is HopefulOne banned for, someone needs to speak some sense into her.

                            and a general advice to the rest of us - please be careful in how you approach some individuals. when someone's views may be on the fringe/edge, do not be the one who gives them an opportunity to fall over the edge.
                            she is unbanned

                            lets see if she puts her foot in her mouth again
                            .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                            نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                            دولة الإسلامية باقية





                            Comment


                            • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                              Originally posted by Rida12 View Post
                              I agree with you this is a dreadful crime.

                              you do realize there is no such thing as male genital mutilation, some gays are promoting normal circumsciion as child abuse

                              and here you go, following right along with their lies

                              no where in islam does it say muslims are supposed to be gullible
                              .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                              نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                              دولة الإسلامية باقية





                              Comment


                              • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                                Originally posted by bengali_muslima View Post
                                This misconception needs to end once and for all!
                                Female genital mutilation is haram. It is haram to cut off the clitoris to deprive a woman of sexual satisfaction. Also FGM wasn't allowed in prophets (pbuh) time.

                                Female circumcision (unlike mutilation) is removing excess labia (not clitoris) or a tiny part of the clitoral HOOD (NOT the clitoris itself!)

                                First of all, the Prophet PBUH did not forbid female circumcision (reduction of the labia or clitoral Hood), BUT he did not recommend it!! Islam does not recommend any kind of female circumcision, which includes labiaplasty (as they have no health benefits and actually have negative effects), but it strictly forbids Clitoridectomy, and 'stitching up' the vagina as these are direct violations to a woman's body, causing trauma, constant pain and deprivation of sexual pleasure.

                                1) The hadith stating that circumcision is an 'honour' for women has some debates against its authenticity. (See Silsilah al-Ahadith al-Da‘ifah by al-Albani, no. 1935).
                                The hadiths that talk about female circumcision/labiaplasty are (daif) WEAK, which means they cannot be used to create an Islamic ruling based on the fact that it is not known if they came from the Prophet or not, according to the hadith scholars. [Al-Shawkani, Nayl Al-awtar, Dar Al-Jeel, Beirut, 1973, vol. 1, p. 139]
                                Da’if (weak) hadith cannot be used as evidence in ahkam shariah.

                                2) Depriving a woman's sexual pleasure is unfair and haram in Islam - since the clitoris and labia both perceive sensation/pleasure as they contain MANY nerve endings! So cutting off any part of it will deprive a woman from pleasure - this is totally unfair And Haram/unIslamic.

                                3) Imagine!!- the Prophet's HOLY wives and His HOLY daughters did not have Female circumcision, and they were HOLY! The prophet didn't even instruct or recommend them to do it.

                                They are our role models. Since they didn't have female circumcision, this proves that this practise is optional, and NOT a sunnah or fardh/obligatory act!

                                So how can a muslim say such an act is instructed/recommended for us UNHOLY women to do?? We are all unholy compared to the Prophet PBUH and His wives and daughters!

                                In the hadith about circumcision, the Prophet PBUH did not recommend it, rather, he limited it. He Limited the woman from how much she should get cut off because she tried to go overboard and HE STOPPED HER, because removing the clitoris will damage her and deprive her from sexual pleasure. Things which aren't recommended by the prophet PBUH should not be done especially if they have no health benefits (e.g. Female circumcision).

                                For men, circumcision is needed since it was practised by the prophets and sahabas and also male circumcision is commanded by hadiths (is a religious practice) and there are proven health benefits! So it is highly recommended for men to do.

                                The Prophet (pbuh) told a woman: "Do not abuse (i.e. do not go to extremes in circumcising); that is better for the woman. (E.g she needs her clitoris to have sexual pleasure) and more liked by her husband." (Abu Dawud, al-Sunan, Kitab al-Adab)

                                So for those who are saying that female circumcision is fardh or recommended, they are creating lies. May Allah guide them.
                                -
                                About IslamiQA supporting female circumcision/labiaplasty-- PLEASE don't trust that website fully, it has many MANY flaws.

                                Let me point out some of its flaws with regards to female circumcision:
                                IslamiQA supports female circumcision and clitoridectomy by claiming it has health 'benefits', let me quote:
                                They said "It takes away excessive libido from women" <<< THIS IS unIslamic and unfair. Where in Islam does it say to cut off a womans clitoris and to deprive her of sexual pleasure? Nowhere!
                                Why should a person control a woman's libido? It is her gift, her Right, and she has freewill to use it either in halal ways or haram ways, just like a man.

                                If these 'sheikhs' on IslamiQA think it's right to reduce her libido, then why don't they cut off the head of a man's penis, as this will also reduce his libido?
                                Islam is about fairness.

                                "It prevents unpleasant odours which result from foul secretions beneath the prepuce". <<< VERY untrue! As muslims we WASH our parts after using the toilet. Women's clitoral hood is so small hardly anything gets trapped there and it is easily cleansed by a swish of water, whereas for men, they need to be circumcised since they cannot get rid of the dirt beneath the foreskin properly.
                                (I was a Medical student so I know A LOT about human anatomy & hygiene).

                                "It reduces the incidence of urinary tract infections" <<< ALSO FALSE. UTI is caused by E.coli which is mainly endogenous (from within the body) or due to inserting contaminated objects into the vagina, it is NOT caused by a woman's clitoral hood 'trapping' anything!!

                                "It reduces the incidence of infections of the reproductive system" <<< AGAIN another lie! Reproductive infections occur when there is INVASION of an object INTO the vagina/cervical region which introduces the bacteria inside the body.
                                The clitoral hood does NOT have any negative effects on a woman's health At all, and it seems IslamiQA is not a reliable source for Truthful Islamic information.
                                thanks for the warning, i hardly know anything about this because alhamdulillah i've never had to know and islamqa was making me a bit

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