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Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

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  • Originally posted by HopefulOne View Post
    Originally posted by The Awakening View Post
    I advise everyone to have a read of this:

    http://seekersguidance.org/blog/2012...al-mutilation/

    http://www.iccservices.org.uk/news_a...mutilation.htm

    I encourage everyone to read the above. I don't know what seekers guidance. com is but The Islamic Cultural Centre is one of the biggest and well known mosques in the UK.


    I know where i'd rather get my information from. Walahi this whole FGM business is making me want to reject hadith altogether but then I think that's a serious sin? :/

    Also, female circumcision, FGM, Gudniin whatever you want to call it is illegal in all western countries. There are either specific laws like the Female Genital Mutilation Act in the UK or you can get done under another law e.g. GBH (guessing) or something in other countries. I don't know. I do not want any of you lovely people to get into trouble with the law. Not. I couldn't care less about you guys.

    Not. I couldn't care less about you guys. Leave girl's genitals alone.

    Btw, islamically, I think we are supposed to follow the law of the land sooo...

    Finally, even pricking the magnificent clitorus is FGM and you lot are talking about removing the hood. :O

    Long live the clitorus and clitoral hood. Allahu Akbar!!!!
    ok.
    اللهُمَّ أَعِزَّ الإِسْلامَ وَالمُسْلِمِينَ

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      • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

        Originally posted by Guled View Post
        Asalam Aleikum

        I just wanted to bring attention to the double standards on the issue of modifications/alterations of the female genitalia that are currently practised in different parts of the world. To put it blatantly when the practice is carried out in non-western nations it is referred to as "muitilation" and no differentiation is made with regards to the different forms of modifications that exist. All of them are defined as muitilation and are considered to be a violation of womens rights. According to WHO FGM is defined as



        From the above definition the practice is only allowed when there exists a medical reason for it but a problem arises as there is an increasing trend among women in western nations to undergo what is termed as "FGCS" which stands for " Female Genital Cosmetic Surgery". Some of the procedures include, reduction of the inner labia (labia minora), vaginal tightening, hymen “reconstruction”, clitoral “lifts & reductions", "designer vagina" etc. The reasons behind such procedures are usually the same when women decide to get a nose job or breast agumentation meaning only a tiny fraction of these modifications are medically justified but nonetheless such procedures are not termed "muitilation" even though they perfectly fit the descriptions of what is termed as FGM as defined by WHO. So one might ask what are the criteria that WHO uses to condemn the practice in africa etc but not in western nations and why is it only a "muitilation" when an african carries out this practice but when a british, american, scandanavian performs it, it is not referred to as a muitilation? In short FGCS is legal and legitimate whereas FGM is illegal, inhumane, barbaric, a violation, and a social problem that needs to resolved.

        FGM vs FGCS




        source: http://www.iscgmedia.com/uploads/6/0...dotter_cvs.pdf



        Source : http://www.iscgmedia.com/uploads/6/0...dotter_cvs.pdf

        Can you imagine it, a white western woman can choose to have a FGCS without problems but if an african ( eg somali) woman who lives in the same country chooses to do the same she will face problems because she belongs to the wrong ethnicity? What do you think ?
        Bro, can I ask how this takes place if it is a awra....

        Comment


        • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

          Originally posted by dizzyfish View Post
          Bro, can I ask how this takes place if it is a awra....
          Do you mean circumcision or ? i believe that most if not all are circumcised when they are young but nonetheles their awrah is exposed when they get circumcised. Another example would be during child birth, the general rule is that it is haram to look at the awrah of other people except in cases where it is necessary (eg circumcision, childbirth) or when it is allowed ( marriage) hope this helps inshallah
          "O Allah!, Forgive all my sins, great and small, the first and the last,
          those that are apparent and those that are hidden

          Comment


          • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

            Originally posted by Guled View Post
            Do you mean circumcision or ? i believe that most if not all are circumcised when they are young but nonetheles their awrah is exposed when they get circumcised. Another example would be during child birth, the general rule is that it is haram to look at the awrah of other people except in cases where it is necessary (eg circumcision, childbirth) or when it is allowed ( marriage) hope this helps inshallah
            So then exposing for hair removal should be ok too?

            Comment


            • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

              Originally posted by dizzyfish View Post
              So then exposing for hair removal should be ok too?
              Unless one is either physical unable to do it alone or sick etc (must be a legitimate reason) it is haram for a person to expose their awrah for hair removal.


              Praise be to Allaah.

              Shaving the pubic hair is one of the sunnahs of the fitrah, and Islam has stipulated that it should not be left without shaving for more than forty days. The basic principle is that every accountable person should shave his pubic hair himself, unless he is unable to do that because he is too old or is sick.

              Conclusion:

              It is not permissible for you to ask your friend to shave your pubic hair for you, or to let her do that. If you do that, you will both be committing a major sin, and you will not be excused for that, because it is easy to find other ways of removing this hair, such as using the well known depilatories, if you cannot use a razor.

              This is permissible in cases of necessity when one is unable to move, or if one is sick or insane and other cases where a man or woman is unable to shave the pubic hair.

              http://islamqa.info/en/97938
              "O Allah!, Forgive all my sins, great and small, the first and the last,
              those that are apparent and those that are hidden

              Comment


              • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                Originally posted by dizzyfish View Post
                Bro, can I ask how this takes place if it is a awra....
                you are kidding or playing?

                how can it take place? if it is the sunnah then the action abrogates the awra that you speak of

                surgery takes precedence over awra
                .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                دولة الإسلامية باقية





                Comment


                • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                  Anyone who knows anything about female genitals would be against this. The problem is a lot of women don't even know their own genitals that well. I suggest those women get a mirror and learn what's down there. Also have a diagram handy so you can compare it. If women don't know much about their own genitals , you can't expect men to know what they are talking about when it comes to female genitals unless he is a doctor or something.
                  [FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR="#0066ff"][SIZE=4] We're all a little broken in our own little way and the last time I checked, broken crayons still colour the same...[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

                  Comment


                  • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                    Originally posted by HopefulOne View Post
                    Anyone who knows anything about female genitals would be against this. The problem is a lot of women don't even know their own genitals that well. I suggest those women get a mirror and learn what's down there. Also have a diagram handy so you can compare it. If women don't know much about their own genitals , you can't expect men to know what they are talking about when it comes to female genitals unless he is a doctor or something.
                    what THIS are you referring to? the haram or what the prophet permitted?
                    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                    دولة الإسلامية باقية





                    Comment


                    • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                      Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post
                      what THIS are you referring to? the haram or what the prophet permitted?
                      This is FGM which is the altering of female genitalia for non medical reasons. Therefore , includes female circumcision which is the same thing but some people like to pretend it's not. Brother you know what I am talking about lol. I don't understand what you think is permitted? The removal of the hood?
                      [FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR="#0066ff"][SIZE=4] We're all a little broken in our own little way and the last time I checked, broken crayons still colour the same...[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

                      Comment


                      • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                        Originally posted by HopefulOne View Post
                        This is FGM which is the altering of female genitalia for non medical reasons. Therefore , includes female circumcision which is the same thing but some people like to pretend it's not. Brother you know what I am talking about lol. I don't understand what you think is permitted? The removal of the hood?
                        read the thread and its title, lest you go against the messenger of Allah

                        we are not here to take your opinion above the prophet
                        .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                        نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                        دولة الإسلامية باقية





                        Comment


                        • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                          Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post
                          read the thread and its title, lest you go against the messenger of Allah

                          we are not here to take your opinion above the prophet
                          Listen you're a man and i'm a woman. That makes me more qualified to talk about female genitals. Hoodectomy in most cases is a crazy and silly idea because the clitorus is so sensitive. The hood is necessary to protect it. If it wasn't so sensitive, women wouldn't be able to stimulate it through the hood and even have o's that way. All forms of fgm are harmful. Are you saying the religion wants us to harm ourselves? I hope you change your view one day. All I know is my daughters will be left in theIr natural state inshaAllah. Now if you are just going to keep repeating the same point, that the prophet said, let's not waste our time.
                          [FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR="#0066ff"][SIZE=4] We're all a little broken in our own little way and the last time I checked, broken crayons still colour the same...[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

                          Comment


                          • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                            Originally posted by HopefulOne View Post
                            Listen you're a man and i'm a woman. That makes me more qualified to talk about female genitals. Hoodectomy in most cases is a crazy and silly idea because the clitorus is so sensitive. The hood is necessary to protect it. If it wasn't so sensitive, women wouldn't be able to stimulate it through the hood and even have o's that way. All forms of fgm are harmful. Are you saying the religion wants us to harm ourselves? I hope you change your view one day. All I know is my daughters will be left in theIr natural state inshaAllah. Now if you are just going to keep repeating the same point, that the prophet said, let's not waste our time.
                            I sincerely hope he does!! I sincerely hope we all do!!!

                            Comment


                            • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                              Originally posted by HopefulOne View Post
                              Listen you're a man and i'm a woman. That makes me more qualified to talk about female genitals. Hoodectomy in most cases is a crazy and silly idea because the clitorus is so sensitive. The hood is necessary to protect it. If it wasn't so sensitive, women wouldn't be able to stimulate it through the hood and even have o's that way. All forms of fgm are harmful. Are you saying the religion wants us to harm ourselves? I hope you change your view one day. All I know is my daughters will be left in theIr natural state inshaAllah. Now if you are just going to keep repeating the same point, that the prophet said, let's not waste our time.
                              so let me make sure that i am understanding you correctly

                              firstly, NO ONE is saying you MUST do it, it is permissible

                              second, you have objection to it, regardless of whether the prophet said it is permissible, and my "repeating to you" that the prophet said, is a waste of your time

                              is this correct?
                              .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                              نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                              دولة الإسلامية باقية





                              Comment


                              • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                                Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post
                                so let me make sure that i am understanding you correctly

                                firstly, NO ONE is saying you MUST do it, it is permissible

                                second, you have objection to it, regardless of whether the prophet said it is permissible, and my "repeating to you" that the prophet said, is a waste of your time

                                is this correct?
                                Is the deen against harm of the body? Yes or no?

                                I don't think it is permissible though.

                                Also, it is not in the quran. It is in hadith. Yes or no? Some hadiths are inauthentic. Yes or no?

                                And I can't be bothered to read through all the posts because I know I am wasting my time with you anyway so what do you think is permitted exactly? Removal of the hood correct?
                                [FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR="#0066ff"][SIZE=4] We're all a little broken in our own little way and the last time I checked, broken crayons still colour the same...[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

                                Comment

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