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Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

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  • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

    Originally posted by Guled View Post
    The point i was trying to make is that in western nations modifications to the female genitalia is seen as something normal and acceptable even though they are regarded as muitilations if one uses the definition given by WHO which is that



    Majority of these procedures are not performed due to medical neccessity but somehow they are not seen as "muitilations" in these countries but if the same procedure was done in an african country then it is automatically classified as a muitilation.
    Really? I didn't think people thought it was acceptable.

    Comment


    • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

      Originally posted by HopefulOne View Post
      Oh Lord please don't tell me you agree with FGM. I cba to read all of that but if you do wow!
      I support female circumcision as it is a practice that is prescribed in islam. Does it surprise you simply because i am a man ?? When you say FGM did you know that it is also carried out in the west albeit under a different term FGCS, female genital cosmetic surgery. FGCS is still a muitilation practice if we go by the definitions of FGM laid down by WHO.

      all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons
      In the west such procedures are acceptable but are not considered "muitilation" per say but when it is done in africa or elsewhere it is considered a muitilation and here lies the controversy. So what does WHO do ? they condemn it only when it is performed in non-western states purposefully neglecting the practise in the western hemisphere. If you want to know to more i would suggest taking alook at the following video.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaxnvwffWbE
      Last edited by Guled; 23-09-14, 07:18 PM.
      "O Allah!, Forgive all my sins, great and small, the first and the last,
      those that are apparent and those that are hidden

      Comment


      • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

        Originally posted by Faissaloo View Post
        Really? I didn't think people thought it was acceptable.
        Inshallah with time you will come to understand it, are you 14yrs old? if so then this might not be a topic that would suitable for you.
        "O Allah!, Forgive all my sins, great and small, the first and the last,
        those that are apparent and those that are hidden

        Comment


        • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

          Originally posted by HopefulOne View Post
          Oh Lord please don't tell me you agree with FGM. I cba to read all of that but if you do wow!
          no he dont agree with FGM

          Comment


          • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

            Originally posted by Guled View Post
            I support female circumcision as it is a practice that is prescribed in islam. Does is surprise you simply because i am a man ?? When you say FGM did you know that it is also carried out in the west albeit under a different term FGCS, female genital cosmetic surgery. FGCS is still a muitilation practice if we go by the definitions of FGM laid down by WHO.



            In the west such procedures are acceptable but are not considered "muitilation" per say but when it is done in africa or elsewhere it is considered a muitilation and here lies the controversy. So what does WHO do ? they condemn it only when it is performed in non-western states purposefully neglecting the practise in the western hemisphere. If you want to know to more i would suggest taking alook at the following video.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaxnvwffWbE
            I'm pretty sure I know more about FGM than you lol. I campaign against ithttp://www.iccservices.org.uk/news_and_events/updates/female_genital_mutilation.htm
            [FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR="#0066ff"][SIZE=4] We're all a little broken in our own little way and the last time I checked, broken crayons still colour the same...[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

            Comment


            • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

              Originally posted by Guled View Post
              Inshallah with time you will come to understand it, are you 14yrs old? if so then this might not be a topic that would suitable for you.
              Why would it not be suitable for me? I realise you're new here so you don't know me. But go on... Please...

              Comment


              • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                Originally posted by iwasjimmyjimmy View Post
                You take a survey of the average person on the street in the UK and see if they approve of male circumcision..... I have been through all the arguments about supposed health benefits more than once.
                That's because like you, they're clueless, and they aren't doctors.

                Hint: American Academy of Pediatrics.

                Comment


                • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                  Originally posted by HopefulOne View Post
                  I'm pretty sure I know more about FGM than you lol. I campaign against ithttp://www.iccservices.org.uk/news_and_events/updates/female_genital_mutilation.htm
                  Ok on what basis do you claim to know more about it ? and what are your opinions with regards to FGCS ? am i correct to assume that you work with non-muslims, if so i want you to personally ask them what are their opinions on FGCS and also if they consider it to be a form of muitilation ? if not ask them to state their reasons for doing so.

                  Below are excerpts that i've taken from the article posted in the link you provided, the reason i chose them is that i find them rather interesting as they make bold claims about the legality of female circumcision in islam.

                  In the interest of Muslim communities worldwide and in the UK in particular, The Islamic Cultural Centre and The London Central Mosque have collaborated with the Foundation for Women’s Health, Research and Development in order to write this paper on female genital mutilation (FGM) also referred to as female circumcision or female genital cutting
                  FGM is a neither a requirement nor a Sunna in Islam. All FGM related Hadith that are allegedly attributed to Prophet Muhammad {Peace Be Upon Him} have been proved to be inauthentic.

                  Words like“sunna” and “tahur” used for FGM by Muslims which erroneously endorse the link of Islam to FGM and brings the great religion into disrepute. All religions say God created human beings in the best forms and wanted them to keep the nature in which they were created. It is forbidden to make changes in God’s creation unless there is a compelling reason i.e. for medical reasons.
                  Do you consider male circumcision as changing God's creation ? if no or yes state your reasons. Muslims circumcise their boys not due to a medical neccessity but because it is the sunnah of the prophet (peace be upon him)
                  Since you and i are both muslim and disagree on the issue of female circumcision it is necessary for us to refer all matters of disagreement between us muslims to Allah and His Messenger, peace be upon him. This is important for us to know and implement because it indicates the complete submission to Allah without which one would not be a Muslim.

                  Allah says:-

                  "If you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end." [Al-Qur'an 4:59]. He also says:-

                  "And whatever you disagree upon, its decision is with Allah." [Al-Qur'an 42:10]

                  So in conformity to the above verses i would like to begin by including the evidence for female circumcision in islam

                  Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him): I heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “The fitrah is five things – or five things are part of the fitrah – circumcision, shaving the pubes, trimming the moustache, cutting the nails and plucking the armpit hairs.” (Bukhari (5891) & muslim (527))

                  In Saheeh Muslim (349) it is narrated from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When a man sits between the four parts (arms and legs of his wife) and the two circumcised parts meet, then ghusl is obligatory.”

                  According to a report narrated by al-Tirmidhi (109) and elsewhere: “When the two circumcised parts meet…”

                  Al-Bukhaari used this phrase as a chapter heading.

                  Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: What is meant by this metaphor is the circumcised parts of the man and the woman.

                  So from this hadeth we establish that circumcision of women was practiced during the lifetime of the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and we have no evidence whatsoever of the prophet (peace be upon) prohibiting this practice. This is the why ulama are in agreement that it is prescribed in islam but differed as to whether it is obligatory, sunnah, etc it is only in our modern era that we hear of so called ulama saying that it is unislamic. and even banning it. All of the hadith mentioned above are saheeh hadith.

                  So what i would like you to do is first go through the evidences that i gave and after that state the evidences that you think/believe support your opinion. If you can not do so, why are you as a muslim against female circumcision in islam?
                  "O Allah!, Forgive all my sins, great and small, the first and the last,
                  those that are apparent and those that are hidden

                  Comment


                  • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                    Originally posted by Faissaloo View Post
                    Why would it not be suitable for me? I realise you're new here so you don't know me. But go on... Please...
                    because i thought that you are a teenager still growing up and will find it rather uncomfortabel reading stuff about female anatomy. I am not new here you are it is just that i don't post as much as i read, take a look at when i first registered first here at UF. Anyway i feel that i've spoken enough about the issue at hand so just read throught the first 2 posts by me inshallah and if you have further questions pls feel free to ask me
                    Last edited by Guled; 23-09-14, 07:17 PM.
                    "O Allah!, Forgive all my sins, great and small, the first and the last,
                    those that are apparent and those that are hidden

                    Comment


                    • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                      Originally posted by wizard.of.oz View Post
                      That's because like you, they're clueless, and they aren't doctors.

                      Hint: American Academy of Pediatrics.
                      If any adult wants to have it done, they can do so. I don't mind what consenting adults do to the their own bodies. As long as I don't have to pay for it via National Insurance.

                      I like my tackle as it came, thanks, with all the nerve endings intact. I am pretty sure those African girls would think the same way if given a choice when they grow up.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                        Originally posted by Revert08 View Post
                        no he dont agree with FGM
                        Sister i believe that for her there is no distinction between female circumcision and muitilation
                        "O Allah!, Forgive all my sins, great and small, the first and the last,
                        those that are apparent and those that are hidden

                        Comment


                        • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                          Originally posted by Guled View Post
                          In the west such procedures are acceptable but are not considered "muitilation" per say but when it is done in africa or elsewhere it is considered a muitilation and here lies the controversy. So what does WHO do ? they condemn it only when it is performed in non-western states purposefully neglecting the practise in the western hemisphere. If you want to know to more i would suggest taking alook at the following video.
                          but in 'the west' these procedures are done once a woman is fully grown and developed.

                          A little girl walking into a western plastic surgeon's clinic and asking for some lady parts modified would meet evoke much the same argument from the WHO.

                          Also 'acceptable' is not really a word i would use for genital plastic surgery.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                            Originally posted by leecopper View Post
                            Your 100% correct. It's a way for Western nations to indirectly control government policy in Africa, while appearing to be humanitarians; in addition to policing local Somali populations in the West, and using social services to track their children. One jahil said children at risk should be monitored with spot checks. This is to get the targeted population used to being treated like criminals and thus demoralised.
                            Waar soomali miyaad tahay saxiib?
                            I can tell you of instances where police came and picked up somali parents from their work witholding them long enough so that health inspectors could perform medical checks to see if the their daughters were circumcised. All of this was usually a result of a phonecall from one of the teacher's teaching at the school where the girls were attending, can you imagine it the check-ups were also forced upon the daughters as they refused it. Some of the girls feel traumtised after this check ups, and another thing they do is to target somali families who live alone in like small towns where there are hardly any somali or other immigrants living there. I guess it's more easier that way for them. I completely agree walaalo that they are doing it so that we become demoralised and feel as we are to blame for it. The basis for this targeting is nothing more than racial profiling as they themselves are doing the same procedures which they accuse us of doing, but since they are performing it , it isn't a criminal offence but legal. To make matters worse if a somali, eritrean or ethiopian woman decided that she wanted to undergo FGCS they will not let them claiming that they are doing it for religious reasons. So in short whether it is done in western countries or not as long the woman hails from a different background than the local inhabitants they are going to face double standards cajeeb isn't it

                            Ya Allah naga qaabo sharta gaalada meel waba ey joogaan Allahuma Ameen. (intended for somalis) ;)
                            "O Allah!, Forgive all my sins, great and small, the first and the last,
                            those that are apparent and those that are hidden

                            Comment


                            • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                              Originally posted by Guled View Post
                              because i thought that you are a teenager still growing up and will find it rather uncomfortabel reading stuff about female anatomy. I am not new here you are it is just that i don't post as much as i read, take a look at when i first registered first here at UF. Anyway i feel that i've spoken enough about the issue at hand so just read throught the first 2 posts by me inshallah and if you have further questions pls feel free to ask me
                              Nah I'm fine with it. But are you against it or not?

                              Comment


                              • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                                Originally posted by Faissaloo View Post
                                Nah I'm fine with it. But are you against it or not?
                                I support it as it is a practice that is ordained in our religion and as a muslim i submit completely to the commandments of Allah and His messenger Muhammed (peace be upon him). This is the primary reason why i support circumcision for both males and females all other reasons are secondary and not as important for me. Hope this clears my view on circumcision.

                                are you sure it is ok for you maybe you should wait a couple of years, what do you think ?
                                "O Allah!, Forgive all my sins, great and small, the first and the last,
                                those that are apparent and those that are hidden

                                Comment

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