Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

    Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post
    the title says that

    mutilation is haram, circumcision is not
    Sorry, I'm short sighted :P

    Comment


    • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

      Originally posted by Rebel101 View Post
      Lool I must be special then because the title was explanation enough :p
      it is not the title the issue but the discussion that follows in certain moments
      My Blog http://historyeyesopened.tumblr.com/ Watch out sister Nousername :o
      Ummah forum mentality depiction by BBC (warning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

      Comment


      • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

        Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post
        then you havent read the thread, even the question you asked and the statements you made show you have not read the thread
        I did read the thread. And I am tired and burdened with a heavy sadness towards the state of people's opinions and lack of well-defined morality upon the topic of human rights and my question remains.

        Comment


        • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

          Originally posted by sultania View Post
          I did read the thread. And I am tired and burdened with a heavy sadness towards the state of people's opinions and lack of well-defined morality upon the topic of human rights and my question remains.
          well then, i guess you are just stuck in a mental box you have put yourself in

          i dont know anything about any well defined morality or human rights, i know what Allah and His Messenger have said and i am well pleased with them both
          .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
          نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
          دولة الإسلامية باقية





          Comment


          • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

            Originally posted by Massilia View Post
            it is not the title the issue but the discussion that follows in certain moments
            masilla

            looks like you have a twin
            .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
            نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
            دولة الإسلامية باقية





            Comment


            • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

              This is my first time ever actually participating in something like this. In fact, I was urged to create an account because of some of the replies stated previously.
              I think circumcision is the nicer, more appealing cousin of FGM. Of course, when I say 'nicer', it doesnt mean it's any better for the female. FGM and circumcision_whether it's for males or females_, in my opinion, remains a very dangerous breach of human rights: to put it simply, you take an unsuscpecting child(male, female, makes no difference in MY OPINION), and against their consent, because they obviously do not know what is going on, really just fiddle around with their private parts as you please.

              I don't know if all of you have searched into this matter, whether you have or not, PLEASE do not stop looking, don't take on ready opinions because really, this is a human life you wish to change to, possibly, the worse.

              I once watched on youtube a video about female circumcision in Indonesia, the families chose to circumcise their daughters to 'preserve chastity' , an old lady said that "when a female is not circumcised, there is just too much se**ual drive, too much desire".(I can't remember her exact words, but i do recall the meaning).
              So, one of the reasons is to moderate the desire of the female.
              But you forget, sir..Or lady, that we are humans, we have a very magnificient gift called the brain, and it's the most complicated organism by far.
              Imagine that, we all get to have one of it. Humans, if taught properly, are able to make their own decisions. You don't need circumcision when your parenting skills are A++, because your daughter or son, are able to decide, and make the right decision. Urges can be controlled, so there's no need to suppress and annihilate the female se**uality, it will backfire.

              On the other hand, some say it has certain health benefits. Here I need you to stop and think with me: to determine whether something is to be practiced, like a surgery, the doctors need to weigh the cons and pros.
              I believe in this case, there are no pros. When you change form, you also alter the fonction. And since God designed us, there is no doubt that he made us the best way we could possibly be: any modification will only make our bodies deteriorate
              STDs and HIVs can be easily prevented with condoms, why go to such extremes when you have such an easily solution readily available.
              This practice will affect the victim physically and psychologically, tho I'm sorry but I still haven't looked into the psychological effects: I only know that circumcision is the beginning of female suppression.

              Parents are supposed to quide their children and make sure they grow happy, balanced and healthy. FGM or female circumcision fills none of these conditions.

              For males, before you decide whether you oppose or approve of this practice, consider what a young innocent child would feel, better yet, watch a child get circumcised.Don't cherry-pick arguments!

              Comment


              • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                dont use the distorted view of FGM to condemn what is ordained by God, from the days of Abraham till today

                God knows us best

                as far as "getting the child's permission".............are you serious? Maybe my child will tell me what clothes he wants to wear, or what school he wants to go to, or maybe how late he wants to stay out at night

                why do you folks abdicate the responsiblilty of the parent and make the child the leader? that has to be the worst part of your entire post

                you are on an Islamic forum, this is what we do, you dont like it, then so be it, but dont come here telling us that what we do in our religion is wrong based upon your personal whims, and then tell us that we should get our child's permission

                do you not realize that no one thinks better of the child's welfare than their parent, but it seems that some folks think the state is a better parent than the mother or father
                .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                دولة الإسلامية باقية





                Comment


                • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                  Originally posted by sultania View Post
                  I thought in islam women were supposed to feel pleasure during intercourse and if they can't they have a right to divorce.

                  removal of the clitoris, which is what these people do to make the women more "pure" take it out

                  So which is it, does islam recommend that women feel pleasure or don't? You can't preach both.
                  Confused? I think the thread pretty much cleared up a lot of the misconceptions out there.

                  If you've read the thread carefully you would have realized that taking out the clitoris is in fact Haraam. Sunnah circumcision is completely different to FMG and the title it'self should be explanatory.

                  Only the hood or a bit of the hood of the clitoris is taken out living the clitoris in tact. All in all only a little bit of skin is taken out living the organ.

                  Also, Sunnah circumcision is also called hoodectomy in the west in which many doctors claim increases a woman's sexual pleasure, hence some women in the west get this operation done.

                  Again you would have known this if you simply read before hastily writing this. Lets just hope you read what I have just wrote.

                  Obviously it is recommended in Islam for a woman to feel pleasure in marriage as that is a gift Allah has given to humans and is a reason why FMG is so sinful and barbaric because it takes away something Allah has bestowed on women.

                  Comment


                  • Comment


                    • Comment


                      • Comment


                        • Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                          Asalam Aleikum

                          I just wanted to bring attention to the double standards on the issue of modifications/alterations of the female genitalia that are currently practised in different parts of the world. To put it blatantly when the practice is carried out in non-western nations it is referred to as "muitilation" and no differentiation is made with regards to the different forms of modifications that exist. All of them are defined as muitilation and are considered to be a violation of womens rights. According to WHO FGM is defined as

                          Female genital mutilation (FGM) comprises
                          all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons
                          From the above definition the practice is only allowed when there exists a medical reason for it but a problem arises as there is an increasing trend among women in western nations to undergo what is termed as "FGCS" which stands for " Female Genital Cosmetic Surgery". Some of the procedures include, reduction of the inner labia (labia minora), vaginal tightening, hymen “reconstruction”, clitoral “lifts & reductions", "designer vagina" etc. The reasons behind such procedures are usually the same when women decide to get a nose job or breast agumentation meaning only a tiny fraction of these modifications are medically justified but nonetheless such procedures are not termed "muitilation" even though they perfectly fit the descriptions of what is termed as FGM as defined by WHO. So one might ask what are the criteria that WHO uses to condemn the practice in africa etc but not in western nations and why is it only a "muitilation" when an african carries out this practice but when a british, american, scandanavian performs it, it is not referred to as a muitilation? In short FGCS is legal and legitimate whereas FGM is illegal, inhumane, barbaric, a violation, and a social problem that needs to resolved.

                          FGM vs FGCS


                          Some may say that female genital cutting and genital cosmetic surgery are not comparable procedures, primarily based on the fact that the one is performed on consenting adult women,while the vast majority of the other are performed on girl children and infants with no regard for their wishes. In addition, many instances of female genital cutting are performed under unsanitary conditions while genital cosmetic surgery is about precision work in high-technology environments. But if we disregard context and only focus on what in the anatomy is removed, the modifications are indeed comparable. Female genital cutting covers everything from the most extensive procedures, such as infibulation, to the mildest of only “pricking” the genitals to draw a drop of blood. Genital cosmetic surgery, on the other hand, may entail removal of labia, but also removal of clitoral tissue (in so-called “clitorislifts”). When clitoris reduction is discussed here (regarding both female genital cutting and genital cosmetic surgery), it is important to bear in mind that the clitoris stretches far into the body past the vaginal canal. The visible tip, which is usually what is understood as the clitoris in lay discourse, is but a fraction of the whole.Scrutiny of the laws prohibiting female genital cutting in various Western countries makes it obvious that it is difficult to ban female genital cutting while condoning genital cosmetic surgery. The legal formulations are very exact.For example, the FGM Act 2003 in England and Wales explicitly prohibits “the partial or total removal of the external female genitalorgans for cultural or other non-therapeutic reasons”.
                          source: http://www.iscgmedia.com/uploads/6/0...dotter_cvs.pdf

                          In practice – that is, the way the laws are applied –the prohibition against genital modifications in Western countries concerns only African groups
                          . According to WHO, the guiding principles should be grounded in discourses of human rights: e.g. the rights of children, the right to health and the right of non-discrimination on the basis of sex.14 In short, problems emerge if we are expected to discriminate between European and African female genitals. If this is purely a children's rights issue, then European laws need to include a paragraph stating that a woman above a specific age may choose to have her genitals modified, irrespective of ethnic background. That would protect children while placing adult women, of Western and non-Western origin alike, in the same category – that is, that they have the right to make decisions about their own bodies.
                          Source : http://www.iscgmedia.com/uploads/6/0...dotter_cvs.pdf

                          Can you imagine it, a white western woman can choose to have a FGCS without problems but if an african ( eg somali) woman who lives in the same country chooses to do the same she will face problems because she belongs to the wrong ethnicity? What do you think ?
                          Last edited by Guled; 23-09-14, 06:57 AM.
                          "O Allah!, Forgive all my sins, great and small, the first and the last,
                          those that are apparent and those that are hidden

                          Comment


                          • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                            For those interested you could take a look at the following video (for the brothers who intend to watch the video, viewer discretion is adivced as there are uncovered women)

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaxnvwffWbE

                            Just about the 12th minute mark the presenter starts to talk about FGM and states how similar the practice is to FGCS but despite their similarity FGCS is accepted while FGM is not because the latter is an injustice to women and people associate it with other cultures namely african/arabs etc even though it is carried out in their own countries. The title of the talk is called "Progress and women's bodies, again brothers be adviced!!!
                            ro
                            "O Allah!, Forgive all my sins, great and small, the first and the last,
                            those that are apparent and those that are hidden

                            Comment


                            • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                              I don't get it... What's your point?

                              Comment


                              • Re: Racial Politics of FGM & FGCS

                                "Mutilate" is a reasonable word to use for FGM, but it is a little emotive. Some people could claim that cosmetic surgery is mutilation, and they could not be proved as a liar (it's just an opinion), it's just a term that isn't common for cosmetic surgery.

                                We have to have different words to describe the two procedures as separate.

                                One of them is performed on a terrified girl without anaesthetic and provides no medical benefit and comes with significant risks to her life and well-being.

                                The other one is a safe regulated procedure requested by a consenting adult. very different.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X