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Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

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  • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

    Assalam
    I hope the following explanation is useful about both practice wa Allahou Aaalaam

    Islamic Scholars on Female Genital Mutilation

    Islamic scholars disagree on FGM: some say no obligatory rules exist while others refer to the mention of female circumcision in the Hadith. According to Sami A. Aldeeb Abu Sahlieh, a Palestinian-Swiss specialist in Islamic law:


    The most often mentioned narration reports a debate between Muhammed sala allahou alaihi wa salama and Um Habibah (or Um 'Atiyyah). This woman, known as an exciser of female slaves, was one of a group of women who had immigrated with Muhammed sala allahou alaihi wa salama . Having seen her, Muhammad sala allahou alaihi wa salama asked her if she kept practicing her profession. She answered affirmatively, adding: "unless it is forbidden, and you order me to stop doing it." Muhammed sala allahou alaihi wa salama replied: "Yes, it is allowed. Come closer so I can teach you: if you cut, do not overdo it, because it brings more radiance to the face, and it is more pleasant for the husband."[38]

    Abu Sahlieh further cited Muhammad sala allahou alaihi wa salama as saying, "Circumcision is a sunna (tradition) for the men and makruma (honorable deed) for the women."[39]

    While some clerics say circumcision is not obligatory for women, others say it is. "Islam condones the sunna circumcision … What is forbidden in Islam is the pharaonic circumcision,"[40] one religious leader explained. Others, such as the late rector of Al-Azhar University, Sheikh Gad al-Haq, said that since the Prophet sala allahou alaihi wa salama did not ban female circumcision, it was permissible and, at the very least, could not be banned.[41]

    In short, some clerics condemn FGM as an archaic practice, some accept it, and still others believe it to be obligatory. It is the job of clerics to interpret religious literature; it is not the job of FGM researchers and activists. There is a certain tendency to confuse a liberal interpretation of Islam with the reality women face in many predominately Islamic regions. To counter FGM as a practice, it is necessary to accept that Islam is more than just a written text. It is not the book that cuts the clitoris, but its interpretations aid and abet the mutilation.

    Conclusions

    There are indications that FGM might be a phenomenon of epidemic proportions in the Arab Middle East. Hosken, for instance, notes that traditionally all women in the Persian Gulf region were mutilated.[42] Arab governments refuse to address the problem. They prefer to believe that lack of statistics will enable international organizations to conclude that the problem does not exist in their jurisdictions. It is not enough to consult Islamic clerics to learn about the mutilation of girls in Islamic societies—that is like asking the cook if the guests like the meal. U.N. agencies operating in the region ignore FGM statistics saying they have no applicable mandate to gather such data. Hosken describes it as a cartel of silence: men from countries were FGM is practiced "enjoy much influence at the U.N."[43] and show no interest in tackling pressing social problems.
    To tackle the problem, Western countries and human rights organizations need to continue to break down the wall of silence and autocracy that blights the Arab Middle East and better promote the notion of individual rights. They should withhold conclusions about the breadth of FGM and, for that matter, other social problems or political attitudes until they can conduct independent field research

    note; what follows is not on text nor included, this is my personal statement I add that consultant and doctors in medicine should have a point of view too in this in line the fikh schoolars

    Regards
    Last edited by BENTALHA; 16-11-13, 10:05 PM.

    Comment


    • What is the point of female circumcision?

      It's a horrible procedure. The ONLY thing it does is reduce sexual pleasure. Is it an attempt to control women from having sex? Is this a way to control women from having any pleasure?

      Comment


      • Re: What is the point of female circumcision?

        Only males need to be circumcised, not females. There is no need for females.
        “Mix with the noble people, you become one of them; and keep away from evil people so that you protect yourself from their evils.”


        Hadhrat Ali (Radiallahu anhu)

        Comment


        • Re: What is the point of female circumcision?

          Originally posted by Radec View Post
          It's a horrible procedure. The ONLY thing it does is reduce sexual pleasure. Is it an attempt to control women from having sex? Is this a way to control women from having any pleasure?
          It's not haram for women to have pleasure (if done in a halal manner obviously, same for men) and what does female circumcision have to do with Islam? It's only mandatory for men to get circumcised
          "Why Do We Fill Our Hearts With Everything But Allah And Expect Not To Fall Apart"

          Comment


          • Re: What is the point of female circumcision?

            Originally posted by Sky Lark View Post
            Only males need to be circumcised, not females. There is no need for females.
            You do realise that male circumcision reduces sexual pleasure as well, and is not justified on medical grounds.

            Routine circumcision

            During the 19th century, many medical practitioners believed that being circumcised was more hygienic than not being circumcised.

            As a result, the routine medical circumcision of all boys, regardless of religious faith, became a widespread practice in England. However, routine male circumcision gradually became less common as many members of the medical community began to argue that it had no real medical benefit in the vast majority of cases.

            Routine circumcision may offer a number of potential benefits, such as reducing the risk of some types of infections. However, most healthcare professionals now agree that the risks associated with routine circumcision, such as infection and excessive bleeding, outweigh any potential benefits.
            From here
            http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/circumc...roduction.aspx

            CONCLUSIONS:

            This study confirms the importance of the foreskin for penile sensitivity, overall sexual satisfaction, and penile functioning. Furthermore, this study shows that a higher percentage of circumcised men experience discomfort or pain and unusual sensations as compared with the uncircumcised population. Before circumcision without medical indication, adult men, and parents considering circumcision of their sons, should be informed of the importance of the foreskin in male sexuality
            From here:
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23374102


            There is evidence that circumcision can help reduce some STD's. I'm pretty sure that we could reduce ear infections by chopping off people's ears as well. Same with Breasts. Why not remove everyone's appendix just in case?

            Comment


            • Re: What is the point of female circumcision?

              @jimmy, whatever Islam has ordered there can only be goodness in it. We may not realize the benefit in it. The consequences of not being circumcised is far worse. And when complications set in you will have to get circumcised anyway. Everything comes with a manual in order to function at its optimal. Allah sent prophets to guide mankind on to the righteous. This Ummah, the nation of our beloved Prophet (peace & blessings be upon him), was given the final and most noble Message from him so that we benefit in every aspect of our lives.

              So, when it comes to religious adherence, Allah and His messenger (Peace & blessings be upon him) is sufficient for us, although medical evidence may prove otherwise.
              “Mix with the noble people, you become one of them; and keep away from evil people so that you protect yourself from their evils.”


              Hadhrat Ali (Radiallahu anhu)

              Comment


              • Re: What is the point of female circumcision?

                Originally posted by Sky Lark View Post
                @jimmy, whatever Islam has ordered there can only be goodness in it. We may not realize the benefit in it. The consequences of not being circumcised is far worse. And when complications set in you will have to get circumcised anyway. Everything comes with a manual in order to function at its optimal. Allah sent prophets to guide mankind on to the righteous. This Ummah, the nation of our beloved Prophet (peace & blessings be upon him), was given the final and most noble Message from him so that we benefit in every aspect of our lives.

                So, when it comes to religious adherence, Allah and His messenger (Peace & blessings be upon him) is sufficient for us, although medical evidence may prove otherwise.
                Muslims are free to disagree or ignore medical evidence, of course. Same with Jews.

                Comment


                • Re: What is the point of female circumcision?

                  Originally posted by iwasjimmyjimmy View Post
                  Muslims are free to disagree or ignore medical evidence, of course. Same with Jews.
                  Yes, true. I was just pointing out what is the motivating factor in us doing something.
                  “Mix with the noble people, you become one of them; and keep away from evil people so that you protect yourself from their evils.”


                  Hadhrat Ali (Radiallahu anhu)

                  Comment


                  • Re: What is the point of female circumcision?

                    Originally posted by iwasjimmyjimmy View Post
                    You do realise that male circumcision reduces sexual pleasure as well, and is not justified on medical grounds.



                    From here
                    http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/circumc...roduction.aspx



                    From here:
                    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23374102


                    There is evidence that circumcision can help reduce some STD's. I'm pretty sure that we could reduce ear infections by chopping off people's ears as well. Same with Breasts. Why not remove everyone's appendix just in case?
                    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cir...N=why-its-done The American Academy of
                    Pediatrics (AAP) says the benefits
                    of circumcision outweigh the
                    risks.
                    Peace & assalamalaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

                    Comment


                    • Re: What is the point of female circumcision?

                      Originally posted by iwasjimmyjimmy View Post
                      Muslims are free to disagree or ignore medical evidence, of course. Same with Jews.
                      Muslims are following recommendations even as per WHO (world health organisation)standards.But athiests are free to disagree or ignore medical evidence of course.same with christians & hindus. 'The World Health
                      Organization promotes
                      circumcision as a preventive
                      measure for sexually active men
                      in populations at high risk for
                      HIV.'(ref:wiki)
                      Peace & assalamalaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

                      Comment


                      • Re: What is the point of female circumcision?

                        Originally posted by iwasjimmyjimmy View Post
                        You do realise that male circumcision reduces sexual pleasure as well, and is not justified on medical grounds.
                        www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17419812/ Test results do
                        not support the hypothesized
                        penile sensory differences
                        associated with circumcision.
                        However, group differences in
                        penile temperature and sexual
                        response were found.
                        Last edited by Jassim Islam; 08-12-13, 01:47 PM. Reason: Info Correction
                        Peace & assalamalaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

                        Comment


                        • Re: What is the point of female circumcision?

                          Originally posted by Jassim Islam View Post
                          http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cir...N=why-its-done The American Academy of
                          Pediatrics (AAP) says the benefits
                          of circumcision outweigh the
                          risks.

                          We were having this argument before but the mods deleted a lot of the stuff because it was off topic.

                          I have read about certain risks for certain diseases when taking part in certain sexual lifestyles.

                          The argument in the UK (where contraception, education, drugs to treat diseases are widely available) might be different to that argument where such things are not available.

                          In Africa, it may be statistically sensible to offer circumcision as part of decease prevention policy, as long as the mothers are given clear information and have a choice.

                          For us in the west, I can make a decision for myself and I like having fully functional sexual organs. I know the risks and the benefits.

                          The risks to me and those around me, caused by having a foreskin is minimal when compared to other factors (such as contraception, number of partners, etc.).

                          For a monogamous Muslim woman, the increased risk of HPV and /or Cancer is negligible. I quoted that before, but deleted it.

                          Comment


                          • Re: What is the point of female circumcision?

                            Originally posted by Jassim Islam View Post
                            www.circinfo.com/benefits/bmc.html
                            'Sexual pleasure is not diminished
                            but often enhanced by the
                            slightly reduced glans sensitivity
                            making it easier to control
                            orgasm.'(Dr. David Hawker,GP)
                            Right, couldn't that same argument be made to support snipping off part of a clitoris?

                            Are you sure we should try and justify things that way?

                            Lets all make our sex organs less sensitive for our own good......

                            Comment


                            • Re: What is the point of female circumcision?

                              Originally posted by Jassim Islam View Post
                              www.circinfo.com/benefits/bmc.html
                              'Sexual pleasure is not diminished
                              but often enhanced by the
                              slightly reduced glans sensitivity
                              making it easier to control
                              orgasm.'(Dr. David Hawker,GP)
                              Read this:

                              http://www.circleaks.org/index.php?title=Gilgal_Society
                              http://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/C...ail/story.html

                              And make your own mind up about the source you quoted:
                              Last edited by iwasjimmyjimmy; 08-12-13, 01:22 PM. Reason: added extra link

                              Comment


                              • Re: What is the point of female circumcision?

                                Originally posted by iwasjimmyjimmy View Post
                                Right, couldn't that same argument be made to support snipping off part of a clitoris?
                                www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/ Female genital mutilation
                                (FGM) includes procedures that
                                intentionally alter or cause
                                injury to the female genital
                                organs for non-medical
                                reasons.
                                The procedure has no health
                                benefits for girls and women.
                                Peace & assalamalaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

                                Comment

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