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in an Islamic society, how far are we responsible for preventing fitnah for others?

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  • in an Islamic society, how far are we responsible for preventing fitnah for others?

    Asalaam alaykum,

    In an Islamic society, the focus is on the benefit of the majority, rather than the rights of the individual.
    Thus we have laws such as the apostasy laws, where those creating fitnah are blameworthy.

    So how far can we extrapolate this?
    Many non Muslims see hijab as the oppression of women by men, as men are making women responsible for the thoughts and actions of men.

    We all know hijab is a blessing not an oppression, but is the second part true? Are Muslim men placing the responsibility on the sisters for their thoughts and actions?

    And is this true to the Islamic concept of benefit ti society?

    I mean if the presence of modest, fully covered sisters, is a fitnah to brothers, some brothers Say more of a fitnah then immodest sisters, then is this creation of fitnah in the society the fault of the sisters for being out of their houses, for the purpose of study/ work / shopping etc, are the sisters by their existence responsible for un Islamic thoughts in the brothers?

    Should they be not seen and not heard for the greater good?

    Or should the brothers be taking responsibility for their own thoughts, and nafs?

    Similarly people may say that this line of thinking is unfavourable to men as it paints them all as sex crazed perverts who can't glimpse a woman without having immodest thoughts.

    And we are talking about covered women, so no off topic discussions about the uncovered.

    Recipes for all the family :inlove:
    (and you thought I was a lazy feminazi which can't cook?)

  • #2
    Re: in an Islamic society, how far are we responsible for preventing fitnah for other

    :wswrwb:

    Men who say that covered sisters are more of a fitnah than immodest one are :wacko: I've never heard that myself, to be honest.

    I fail to see how that can be the case.

    So, yes, if sisters are covered and they still can't suppress their desire, then they are responsible for their nafs. I mean, what else is she suppose to do, she's adhering to the command of Allah by wearing hijab, there's not much she can do.

    Plus, why are these men even looking at them? What happened to "lower your gaze." The command is for both, covered women and uncovered women. It's a pity that some people think it's OK to look at one and not the other.

    Personally, the only problem I have with this is people who have no shame and walk around exposing much of their body. And, it's not just 1 or 2 people, but a lot of them, so you can't even look in another direction without seeing another immodestly dressed women.

    Khair, anyways, I've never even felt that way about non-Muslims who at least cover enough, let alone sisters wearing hijab.
    Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

    "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
    - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

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    • #3
      I only heard covered women are a fitnah on this forum.

      Sometimes I feel like you are stalking me! Then I realise its not just me you probably constantly refreshing new posts.

      I asked my husband about hijab tutorials, and he was like :scratch: what's that and why do men even know about them!

      Recipes for all the family :inlove:
      (and you thought I was a lazy feminazi which can't cook?)

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      • #4
        Re: in an Islamic society, how far are we responsible for preventing fitnah for other

        Originally posted by .mirror. View Post
        :wswrwb:

        Men who say that covered sisters are more of a fitnah than immodest one are :wacko: I've never heard that myself, to be honest.

        I fail to see how that can be the case.

        So, yes, if sisters are covered and they still can't suppress their desire, then they are responsible for their nafs. I mean, what else is she suppose to do, she's adhering to the command of Allah by wearing hijab, there's not much she can do.

        Plus, why are these men even looking at them? What happened to "lower your gaze." The command is for both, covered women and uncovered women. It's a pity that some people think it's OK to look at one and not the other.

        Personally, the only problem I have with this is people who have no shame and walk around exposing much of their body. And, it's not just 1 or 2 people, but a lot of them, so you can't even look in another direction without seeing another immodestly dressed women.

        Khair, anyways, I've never even felt that way about non-Muslims who at least cover enough, let alone sisters wearing hijab.
        "lower the gaze" concept applies to both genders, fitnah maybe everywhere in a marketplace for example but Allah will look at your intentions so what you see in your periphery vision is out of your control.

        Every Muslim needs to know what their role is.
        Everyone thinks their a scholar because they know how to copy and paste, you get your ummah face on and the second you log out, you know your reality. Anyone can attain knowledge, how many can implement it?

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        • #5
          Re: in an Islamic society, how far are we responsible for preventing fitnah for other

          Originally posted by naila-k View Post
          I only heard covered women are a fitnah on this forum.

          Sometimes I feel like you are stalking me! Then I realise its not just me you probably constantly refreshing new posts.

          I asked my husband about hijab tutorials, and he was like :scratch: what's that and why do men even know about them!
          It's probably just one person who said that.

          Lol, I see all the post on live feed.

          Originally posted by $HugoBoss$ View Post
          "lower the gaze" concept applies to both genders, fitnah maybe everywhere in a marketplace for example but Allah will look at your intentions so what you see in your periphery vision is out of your control.

          Every Muslim needs to know what their role is.
          That's true. However, I think it's probably easier for sister to lower their gaze, because men usually dress OK. It's the women here...Astaghfirullah.

          Peripheral vision is annoying, makes things harder... *sigh* But, it helps so you won't have to even look in that direction to know that someone is coming, meaning, "OK look away, quick."
          Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

          "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
          - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

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          • #6
            Re: in an Islamic society, how far are we responsible for preventing fitnah for other

            Yet another thread for men to moan about "immodest women"...

            I think this fitnah in society extents much further than a female's dresscode.

            This tacitly implies that women dress modestly for men and not because it's a simple commandment from their Lord...a commandment that applies to men, too.

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            • #7
              Re: in an Islamic society, how far are we responsible for preventing fitnah for other

              Originally posted by Zaitoonah View Post
              Yet another thread for men to moan about "immodest women"...

              I think this fitnah in society extents much further than a female's dresscode.

              This tacitly implies that women dress modestly for men and not because it's a simple commandment from their Lord...a commandment that applies to men, too.
              yes this is what im trying to discuss sis. we have threads saying women in uni/workplace is a fitnah even if they are covered, and women shouldnt be out in the market places etc. so as this is a fitnah for men is the responsibility on the women?

              and by hijab i didnt mean only dress code tbh.

              the way i feel is that if i am covered and acting aware of hijab then there is no problem me being out, but some brothers act like the sight of fully covered women is too much for them. so then is it the fault of the women for stirring desire by being out of her house? how can someone defend this position?

              Recipes for all the family :inlove:
              (and you thought I was a lazy feminazi which can't cook?)

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              • #8
                Re: in an Islamic society, how far are we responsible for preventing fitnah for other

                lets have a look and a realistic outlook at the islamic state in the time pf the prophet pbuh and the 4 khilafa.

                when we look at medinah and the sahabah, we see the perfection of eeman. they were wonderfull muslims in all aspects. this was medinah.

                what about other places though?

                well and example is that in the time of abu bakr when he called for jihad, who came to answer the call beside the sahabah? warrior type men from the desert.

                these men were very ill mannered. why? because they dident have that perfection.

                this isj ust one example of many. the fact of the matter is that sometimes we het a glossy kind of look at how society was ran.

                when we look into hadith, there is no reason mentioned for hijab other then modesty. nowhere is it mentioned that its for mens desires.

                actually the first and formost reason mentioned: that its for the sake of Allah alone.

                Allah tells the believeing men to lover their gaze. and this means both literally and metaphorically. one is to guard their modesty both outwardly and inwardly. women by nature have more to show off, perhaps thats why the clothing requirements are different for them. for example a man can show his chest and its not awrah, and it wont distract every woman in the street if he dosent have a shirt on. it even disgusts some women.

                reverse the situation and the reaction will be different.

                men will be men. a man dosent need a woman around for his mind to be on...well you know.

                its a 2 way street. on the one hand we are entirely responsible for our own actions and deeds. on the other hand we have to be realistic and if everyone is naked, that will cause peoples hearts to harden which will eventually lead to sin, as mankind is inclined towards his nafs and the whispers of shaytan, all except a few who are truly the awliya of Allah. and we ask Allah to send his mercy on them for their jihad on their nafs and shaytan.
                painful torment? (10) (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Adn (Edn) Paradise; that is indeed the great success. (12)

                JazakAllah khair for the duas but i would prefer duas for shahadah instead.

                sponsor an orphan

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                • #9
                  Re: in an Islamic society, how far are we responsible for preventing fitnah for other

                  Originally posted by naila-k View Post
                  Asalaam alaykum,

                  Many non Muslims see hijab as the oppression of women by men, as men are making women responsible for the thoughts and actions of men.
                  We all know hijab is a blessing not an oppression, but is the second part true? Are Muslim men placing the responsibility on the sisters for their thoughts and actions?
                  And is this true to the Islamic concept of benefit ti society?
                  I mean if the presence of modest, fully covered sisters, is a fitnah to brothers, some brothers Say more of a fitnah then immodest sisters, then is this creation of fitnah in the society the fault of the sisters for being out of their houses, for the purpose of study/ work / shopping etc, are the sisters by their existence responsible for un Islamic thoughts in the brothers?

                  Should they be not seen and not heard for the greater good?
                  Or should the brothers be taking responsibility for their own thoughts, and nafs?

                  Similarly people may say that this line of thinking is unfavourable to men as it paints them all as sex crazed perverts who can't glimpse a woman without having immodest thoughts.

                  And we are talking about covered women, so no off topic discussions about the uncovered.
                  wa alaikumassalam,

                  I've always seen hijab as something between myself and Allah subhana tala, it doesn't bother me in the slightest that walking down the road others will assume my dad forced me to wear it, or that a 2ft cloth is oppressing me. My reasons for wearing hijab had nothing to do with 'covering up from men' because when I
                  didn't wear hijab I was covered then too, the hijab was just an additional thing wrapped on my head, it didn't make a difference to the ''fitnah-factor". I persona

                  Now with men complaining about how women who dress in small clothes have a high "fitnah-factor" and then blame them for not being able to lower their gaze/keep themselves to themselves, then I honestly find that pathetic. When I read/hear that, then I think to myself that on the day of judgement is Allah subhana tala going to accept that excuse of you 'ya Allah, i'm sorry I couldn't keep my eyes down, it was July, she was in those short shorts and maaaan I just couldn't do it'. Personally, I don't think Allah tala would accept that excuse of me if I was to stare at a shirtless man with a six pack, so I don't see how that excuse would work for a guy. Now if that excuse doesn't work then you gotta realise that we can't blame things, we have to fix them despite how difficult they make it. If I find it hard to look away from a good-looking guy then it doesn't mean it's okay to look, or i'm excused it just means I have to try harder to look away, and inshaAllah my reward will my increased too. I can't blame the guy for being 'immodest' because it's my own nafs/thoughts that I need to conquer and not blame othres for my weaknesses.

                  I could easily have the same problem with a guy in a thobe, I could have problems lowering my gaze there, and here he's all covered, so the blame would be on me for not lowering my gaze, I would be held accountable for that, and to solve that problem I need to work on my nafs/thoughts.

                  I can sympathize with people who find it hard to lower their gaze and their struggle when people are wearing less, but in no way do I think it's justified to blame your sin on someone else's immodesty. If that excuse won't fly on judgement day before Allah subhana tala then It wont fly today either. If it's hard to lower your gaze, then word harder on fixing the problem.

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                  • #10
                    Re: in an Islamic society, how far are we responsible for preventing fitnah for other

                    The fact that it's hard to lower your gaze doesn't mean that brothers intentionally look. Rather, the amount of immodesty is so great, that you can't look anywhere without seeing the shamefulness. That's why it becomes hard to lower (avert) your gaze.
                    Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                    "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                    - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: in an Islamic society, how far are we responsible for preventing fitnah for other

                      this is one of the reasons why i want to move. all this immodesty makes my heart hard.

                      you can only swim upstream for so long. eventually you will get tired and give up.
                      painful torment? (10) (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Adn (Edn) Paradise; that is indeed the great success. (12)

                      JazakAllah khair for the duas but i would prefer duas for shahadah instead.

                      sponsor an orphan

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: in an Islamic society, how far are we responsible for preventing fitnah for other

                        Originally posted by naila-k View Post
                        I only heard covered women are a fitnah on this forum.
                        I had a conversation that touched upon this recently.

                        For some unmarried brothers, covered women are a form of fitna, simply because they are the type of women those brothers wish to marry. We actually called this, the "fitna of the halal", as bizarre (and innacurate) as that sounds.

                        Uncovered women are a different kind of fitna, because they appeal only to the physical desires. We called this "the fitna of the haraam".

                        I don't really want to explain this any further on a mixed forum, but I hope you get the picture insha'Allah.

                        "We ask Allaah for a lasting faith, true certainty, and beneficial knowledge"


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