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A madhab question?

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  • #16
    Re: A madhab question?

    Originally posted by *hijab* View Post
    but whose more knowledgable; us normal people or sheikhs who studied a great deal?
    Only Allah has that answer...but that doesnt mean we should not read and our own research on particular subject

    we can only go to the specialists for clarification but we need to do own readings and research

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: A madhab question?

      Originally posted by ibn Battuta View Post
      Only Allah has that answer...but that doesnt mean we should not read and our own research on particular subject

      we can only go to the specialists for clarification but we need to do own readings and research
      of course, but we can't not learn from sheikhs either.
      check out this blog>>>http://myworldmuslimah.wordpress.com/

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: A madhab question?

        I follow sheikh Muhammad Salah from Egypt, he has graduated from the al azhar university and has studied comparative
        fiqh. He has immense knowledge in the rulings of all four madhabs and when a question is thrown at him he gives all
        opinions but at the same time he recommends muslims to follow their local imam. He is unbiased, very pious, humble
        and a excellent speaker.
        Everyone thinks their a scholar because they know how to copy and paste, you get your ummah face on and the second you log out, you know your reality. Anyone can attain knowledge, how many can implement it?

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: A madhab question?

          Originally posted by *hijab* View Post
          but whose more knowledgable; us normal people or sheikhs who studied a great deal?
          Sorry I don't mean to be rude - but how can that question be asked if clearly the shuyoukh have studied more? We cannot just read and do lots of research ask specialists for clarification, come to conclusions and then make up our own fatawa.

          "Verily, Allaah does not take away knowledge by snatching it from the people, but by causing (the death) of the scholars until none of them is left alive. People would then appoint ignorant leaders for themselves who would be consulted in matters of religion and they would give Fatawas without knowledge, falling into misguidance and misguiding others. [Sahih Muslim]

          '... Allaah does not take away knowledge by snatching it from the people, but by causing (the death) of the scholars' So clearly the knowledge is with the scholars not us. So they are clearly more knowledgeable.
          [CENTER][I]All humans are dead except those who have knowledge;
          and all those who have knowledge are asleep, except those who do good deeds;
          and those who do good deeds are decieved, except those who are sincere;
          and those who are sincere are always in a state of worry. - Imaam Shafi'i[/I][/CENTER]

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: A madhab question?

            Originally posted by Umm_Maryam View Post
            Sorry I don't mean to be rude - but how can that question be asked if clearly the shuyoukh have studied more? We cannot just read and do lots of research ask specialists for clarification, come to conclusions and then make up our own fatawa.

            "Verily, Allaah does not take away knowledge by snatching it from the people, but by causing (the death) of the scholars until none of them is left alive. People would then appoint ignorant leaders for themselves who would be consulted in matters of religion and they would give Fatawas without knowledge, falling into misguidance and misguiding others. [Sahih Muslim]

            '... Allaah does not take away knowledge by snatching it from the people, but by causing (the death) of the scholars' So clearly the knowledge is with the scholars not us. So they are clearly more knowledgeable.

            That's what I used to think. but its not as simple as that.

            I remember back when I was at Uni, I knew people that would just but their courseworks online whilst forgetting that exact constituted more marks and f course the tutors know if you copied or bought it elsewhere...only later to be embarrassed when they get into the real world.

            The whole point of research is to gather information. The more information we have the closer we get of making our own decision.Research is the result of advancing knowledge created in the past. There are people from all walks of life that contribute to gathered information. These are ordinary people and extraordinary people. They include, teachers, students, scientists, professors, scholars, business owners, librarians, book keepers, writers, politicians and many more unknown out there. These are everyday citizens weinteract with. They all help with the flow information that people use for self help.

            Research is designed to solve a particular existing problems so there is a much larger audience eager to support research that is likely to be profitable or solve problems of immediate concern and in this case the views of different madhabs on different matters. We also must understand how research impact our decision making. Most people make decisions without gathered informations to back them up....and in the case of religious edicts only few do. The problem is most people aren't patient enough to put in the effort. Research requires time, effort, and sometimes money to have the evidence you need to make a sound decision that's why many avoid it....thats why I suggested to hit the library...you will only involve the learned scholars where necessary , The research you do and evidence you gathered will have impact on your future. Be adviced, considered the risks or consequences of making an important decision with IN ADEQUATE evidence.

            In conclusion research is very vital to our everyday decision making. It arms you from wrong informations and save time and money. It is important to your success as you take on life's challenges and career decisions making. But be careful though, becasue too much research without action on what you' re learning is not good either. The question is how much information is enough? How much information can you afford? Ever wonder why most people drop out of Uni in their second year or second semester?

            now you know...and you wonder why our prophet was told IQRA!!!

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: A madhab question?

              Originally posted by *hijab* View Post
              How do we determine the strongest opinion though?

              Shaykh A might say his opinion is strongest because of his daleel.

              Shaykh B says his opinion is strongest because of his daleel.

              How do you know? Some might say you look at where the daleel is from, but what if both daleel used are sahih? then what.

              Consensus of the scholars
              Blessed is He in Whose Hand is the Dominion, and He is Able to do all things. (67.1)

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              • #22
                Re: A madhab question?

                Originally posted by Soliloquy View Post
                I think this is more than just being a madhab issue... Anyone who has ever had to go about learning Islam by themselves will have gone through various changes in their views based upon many factors, some of which could be progressing in their knowledge of Islam, being influenced by others, hearing of different opinions and feeling another opinion to be the "stronger" opinion - whether this is a properly informed decision or not. All this, undeniably, happens. In reality, I doubt the average Muslim seeks knowledge from just one source; whether that be human sources, like with your examples, or written material, such as books and leaflets or even the internet.

                In essence, I believe it all comes down to how and why we change our practices. We often hear of people saying "I'm going to follow the 'stronger' opinion", but how did they come to believe this is the "stronger" opinion? If, as you have described in the above examples, it was through reliance on another to teach them Islam, then it would be important to understand what enabled this Shaykh to come to this conclusion. Clearly, going by/being known by the title "Shaykh", one would think he is knowledgeable, but how do we know this is true and he is not just some person teaching us stuff he has taken to be correct without any justification (somewhat like us trusting him)? It is imperative that we take an active role in finding this out.

                It isn't a bad thing to change our views, we're not born with the answers - it's a journey, only we should try to make an informed decision when we choose who we would like to guide and help us.


                ----

                Btw, I know this doesn't answer your question (if you were seeking an answer), but these are things one would have to consider to enable them to appreciate the examples and the specificity of the cases in questions. Perhaps the Shuyookh in the examples are actually qualified to take rulings from all the madhahib, understand and appreciate them, before they proclaim to believe one opinion is stronger than another. That can happen, and that maybe so.
                I haven't replied to this post but I'll say I have to agree with much of what you have said and you raise some interesting questions.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: A madhab question?

                  Originally posted by Khalid b. Walid View Post
                  Maybe the example I gave wasn't the best. I was trying to illustrate how a scholar may not agree with his teachers on an issue and favour a different opinion. This is assuming the scholar is at a level where he has the knowledge and expertise to do such a thing. In such a situation, there isn't any way for the average Muslim to know if the Sheikh is giving him the main ruling of the school or some other opinion unless he asks him as .Mirror. said or goes to another scholar to verify what the first one said.
                  Let me put it to you this way.The derivation of ijtihad is different in other madhab.Now, this will be getting complicated.So read carefully.The ijtihad is different, it depends on the views and in according of rules.Then, the opinion will be based on the ijtihad.Then if the person agrees to the others ijtihad, then he is agreeing to the rules of the other madhab's ijtihad.Which if he is taught well, he does not do it.

                  Let me put an example.The maghrib salah, there is a saying to pay a little 2 minute early in shafi and hanbali.But the hanafis delay it about 2 minutes.Now another shaykh, derives it saying.Lets be in precaution.Even though late, let us be sure that we are praying in right time.He delays another 2 minutes.This is a derivation of rule.

                  Now, if you say that a shaykh accepts another madhab's views.Then he is actually accepting the other points of authorization of the ijtihad of the fiqh.Which, he cannot do it because he has strictly been taught that if you do this and go on the other authorization points.They you fail over here.If you see an example of hanbali fiqh.Let me tell you a point of authorization.The ijtihad is not complete without the consensus of a shaykh on that matter.If no shaykh speaks on it then ijtihad is not at all complete and one has to reject ijtihad on it.Now, if you see others.They accept it.The silence speaks that it is correct.Thereby, the hanbali shaykh cannot go and accept the views of other madhab because he is taught that this is the correct point and this should be obeyed.If he doesn't then he is not doing justice and doing whatever his mind makes him think correct.This view is not clear but the other madhab's view is clear and easily acceptable.So lets do that, here lies the non-affirmative point.
                  Last edited by ahmed_abdullah; 10-10-11, 03:54 AM.
                  صلى الله على حبيبه محمد و على آله و أصحابه و سلم
                  Al-Muslimeen

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: A madhab question?

                    Originally posted by al-siddiq View Post
                    I can help you on this topic, but what I write might be long. Would you read it? (And hopefully avoid the sufi vs salafi stuff that is liable to occur here lol)
                    it might help someone if u post it

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: A madhab question?

                      Originally posted by Umm_Maryam View Post
                      Sorry I don't mean to be rude - but how can that question be asked if clearly the shuyoukh have studied more? We cannot just read and do lots of research ask specialists for clarification, come to conclusions and then make up our own fatawa.

                      "Verily, Allaah does not take away knowledge by snatching it from the people, but by causing (the death) of the scholars until none of them is left alive. People would then appoint ignorant leaders for themselves who would be consulted in matters of religion and they would give Fatawas without knowledge, falling into misguidance and misguiding others. [Sahih Muslim]

                      '... Allaah does not take away knowledge by snatching it from the people, but by causing (the death) of the scholars' So clearly the knowledge is with the scholars not us. So they are clearly more knowledgeable.
                      :jkk:

                      it was a rhetorical question....was making ibn battuta think!
                      check out this blog>>>http://myworldmuslimah.wordpress.com/

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: A madhab question?

                        Bismillah

                        Originally posted by Khalid b. Walid View Post
                        Go ahead. Always interesting to read people's views.
                        Originally posted by Al-Mujaahidah View Post
                        it might help someone if u post it
                        Ok so let's answer the question inshAllah.

                        First, we must define some terms.

                        A mujtahid is a person of knowledge who has the abililty to give rulings based on islamic texts

                        An usul is the base principles founded heavily in islamic texts that make the basis to derive other rules.

                        Fiqh (in tihs context) means a collection of rulings.

                        So a madhab is basically a collection of fiqh of many mujtahideen based on a certain usul that they all generally agree on.


                        In 'asl (origin) our obligation is to act based on the hukm of Allah in everytihng. This of course requires that we can derive Allah's hukm based on the texts. When we are not able to (since most of us are not mujtahideen) we must ask those who have the knowledge for the ruling. The person must show righteous character (ie they act on what they say, and are true to islam), and that they demonstrate an abililty to understand the texts and explain things.

                        Based on this you would generally follow a mujtahid when you have questions (even if he has passed away, like imam shafi or imam abu hanifa). However, sometimes you will have a question that either you cannot ask that mujtahid (language barrier, not a reality of their time, not available to you, etc), so you must differ in your question to another.

                        In this way, I might follow shaykh taqiuddeen nabahani, but since he only has ijtihaad in certain things I would go to imam shawkani on matters that he does not cover. Also, depending your level of knowledge you would be able to discern between different areas and be more convinced of that mujtahid's abililty in a certain area. For instance, in salah I take from abu iyaas mahmood because i have seen his ijtihaad on salah to be phenominal addressing all points in detail and taking into account the opinions of the previous scholars.


                        Does that help as a start?
                        If you have any questions feel free to PM me!

                        Humililty, Sincerity, and the quest for Truth. There is no purpose in life but to seek the pleasure of Allah.
                        There is a possibility a female might use this account to read something!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: A madhab question?

                          Originally posted by Khalid b. Walid View Post
                          This raises an important point though.

                          How is the average Muslim meant to know which opinion is stronger when he does not even have the knowledge to analyse these opinions. Yes he may see the ruling of the scholar who says "based on these hadith this is the ruling" but even then the average Muslim will only have a very superficial understanding of the issue.

                          I guess one way of circumventing this problem would be to ask a scholar which way is the strongest. But even then you will only get a subjective opinion on which is stronger. Ask one Sheikh and he will say opinion A is the preferred way. Ask another Sheikh and he will say opinion B is the strongest and so on.
                          The average Muslim, IMO is not this concerned about the rulings. Unfortunately. The "awakened" Muslim, i.e., someone who is serious about their deen, will go the extra mile.

                          So when I ask a question of a Sheikh, I will ask him for the daleel. If it is Quran, I will read the translation myself, and since my husband is a native Arabic speaker, I may ask him to read it in Arabic and discuss it with me. If it is a hadith, I will ask how strong it is and if there are other ahadith that support this view or is there only one. If the Sheikh doesn't know, I will try to find out myself. I always ask if this is what the majority of scholars think and if there is consenus or not. If there is consensus, then you don't need to worry over-much. If there is no concensus, then you aren't likely to get to the bottom of it yourself. If there is some disagreement, then I may continue to pursue an answer.

                          If I choose to check with another Sheikh, for whatever reason, and I get different answers, I will reflect back to them what I've learned and ask them to respond. Usually it is a matter of my understanding of what they're saying, as opposed to a conflict in their opinions. For example, the Sheikh that I know may respond to me with examples and wording that reflect what he knows of my life or mentality, etc., while the other Sheikh who doesn't know me may give a more general answer, or one he thinks a new-Muslimah may be "really" asking.

                          If the Sheikhs you talk to aren't objective, then I'd say the problem is that you need to talk to different Sheikhs. For example, the one I talk to most will say: The majority of scholars say A, but I have heard also opinion B. For myself, I follow ____. Or he may say: While the majority of scholars say A, a close look at the language leads me to believe B.

                          It is then up to me to decide if I want to trust his judgement or not. Until now this has only happened once, and it was a matter that I could choose to err on the side of caution without fear of doing something "wrong" that way, so it was easy to stick to the majority ruling, alhamdulilah.
                          "Do not let your hatred of a people incite you to aggression." Qur'an 5:2

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