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Why Brothers Prefer BodyBuilding over Defensive Arts?

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  • #61
    Re: Why Brothers Prefer BodyBuilding over Defensive Arts?

    @sandman. cracking answers man.

    all these people pitting bodybuilders against trained fighters are silly. bodybuilding is not a martial art or any kind of fighting style. its like saying a formular one driver would be a bmx rider in a race. of coarse they would lol.


    that krav maga technique in the vid is very sloppy, when he does it in slow mo it looks *almost* plausible but in actual movement the barrel of the gun didnt once leave his chest. one squeze of the trigger and lights out.

    There are two kinds of pride, both good and bad. 'Good pride' represents our dignity and self-respect. 'Bad pride' is the deadly sin of superiority that reeks of conceit and arrogance.


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    • #62
      Re: Why Brothers Prefer BodyBuilding over Defensive Arts?

      Originally posted by SILURES View Post
      mate tbh and no offence meant but you seem to be talking from a VERY biased point of view.

      yes a pure bodybuilder (like ronnie coleman for instance) probably wouldnt be much use in a fight due to the extreme size of his muscles and the extreme lactic acid build up hed get from exertion but the other 99% of heavily built guys would probably do allright in a fight just on strength and power that comes from boidybuilding or power lifting even against a smaller more skilled person (and thats from experiance of training martial arts for about twenty years or so, training MMA for the last couple of years and working on the doors with a lot of big men and doing weights for around twentysix years.) . and to say chest and biceps are useless muscles to train is wrong. they are two of your main pushing and pulling muscles that are used in a grappling scenario. i agree that you need technique as well to use the power you have built from the benches and curls to the greatest effect but to say they are useless is wrong.

      and of coarse most bodybuilders would admit its for show,because thats what theyre training for. show muscles. thats what they do.

      a martial artist full of muscles that doesnt cross train to get the speed and stamina will be slow and sluggish. so will someone that doesnt train that sits on a couch all day so i dont see what your point is. if you dont train for something specific then your obviously not going to be good at it. on the other hand a bodybuilder that also trains MMA for instance will have the large muscles, then 12 weeks or so before a fight will change his rep range and build the speed and stamina into his workout.

      and btw what are these exercise you mention, im allways looking to learn some new things to punish my doby some more ;)
      okay i will admit my point of view is slightly biased.

      Regarding the chest and bicep being overrated, I read a lot of that on bodybuilding forums. You need your triceps much more than your biceps, I believe 2/3 of your upper arm is tricep, the bicep is just for show. You hardly need your biceps for most lifts.

      Regarding some easy looking and sounding exercises which are actually quite tough..

      Do the horse stance. Spread your legs, or just shoulder width apart, lower yourself until your legs are parallel to the ground, back straight, then just stay in that position. lol. Alot of people can barely manage 30 seconds, your legs will start shaking violently. We used to do it for maybe 5 mins or so, alot of it is mental. You feel the pain, your legs will be shaking like crazy, but just zone out, breathe. I did that for years when I was young and as a result my legs now are very strong, I was the best at high jump during school and now I can out-squat guys that are twice my size.

      Another, standing up, hold your arms straight out at 90 degrees, make a fist then open your hands, fingers fully outstretched, do that very quickly and repeat, over and over, your forearms will feel like they are on fire, then point your arms towards the ceiling and continue, then after a minute or so, point your arms towards the ground and continue, your forearms will feel like they are about to blow up. Then after that do forearm curls, feel that burn. Then stretch and flex your hands and wrist. Will give you forearms of steel.

      For conditioning we used to strike eachother, so you need a partner, grind your shins against each other, kick each other on the legs inside and outside - not too hard, strike each others forearms. Your whole body will feel sore and go red, when we got home we would apply some smelly oil, over time you would become desensitized and not hurt as much. Just a case of killing/dulling nerve cells i think lol.

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      • #63
        Re: Why Brothers Prefer BodyBuilding over Defensive Arts?

        Originally posted by oshirowanen View Post
        Krav Maga, technique made for dealing with all types of threats, including guns...
        Most martial art instructors will tell you to back down if someone approaches you with a knife.

        Knives are nasty and give horrendous injuries. Learning a martial art doesn't make you superman.

        Regarding guns, I think alot of it would be psychological. The guy holding a gun to you is trying to intimidate you and won't want to shoot you unless it is absolutely necessary.

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        • #64
          Re: Why Brothers Prefer BodyBuilding over Defensive Arts?

          Originally posted by AX1300 View Post
          okay i will admit my point of view is slightly biased.

          Regarding the chest and bicep being overrated, I read a lot of that on bodybuilding forums. You need your triceps much more than your biceps, I believe 2/3 of your upper arm is tricep, the bicep is just for show. You hardly need your biceps for most lifts.

          Regarding some easy looking and sounding exercises which are actually quite tough..

          Do the horse stance. Spread your legs, or just shoulder width apart, lower yourself until your legs are parallel to the ground, back straight, then just stay in that position. lol. Alot of people can barely manage 30 seconds, your legs will start shaking violently. We used to do it for maybe 5 mins or so, alot of it is mental. You feel the pain, your legs will be shaking like crazy, but just zone out, breathe. I did that for years when I was young and as a result my legs now are very strong, I was the best at high jump during school and now I can out-squat guys that are twice my size.

          Another, standing up, hold your arms straight out at 90 degrees, make a fist then open your hands, fingers fully outstretched, do that very quickly and repeat, over and over, your forearms will feel like they are on fire, then point your arms towards the ceiling and continue, then after a minute or so, point your arms towards the ground and continue, your forearms will feel like they are about to blow up. Then after that do forearm curls, feel that burn. Then stretch and flex your hands and wrist. Will give you forearms of steel.

          For conditioning we used to strike eachother, so you need a partner, grind your shins against each other, kick each other on the legs inside and outside - not too hard, strike each others forearms. Your whole body will feel sore and go red, when we got home we would apply some smelly oil, over time you would become desensitized and not hurt as much. Just a case of killing/dulling nerve cells i think lol.

          ill try that horse stance move, sounds good for a finishing move after training legs. used to something simular when i done shotokan, but we didnt hold it for as long. also in wing chun we used to do a punching training on the corn bag while in a funny stance to toughen and stregthn the legs, that used to burn like crazy lol.

          the bicep will come into play with any pulling movement, especially if your grappling with your back on the floor or against a wall. or just holding some in close when in the guard they play a big role. any pushing movment off the floor or against a wall will involve the chest as well as the tricep.

          There are two kinds of pride, both good and bad. 'Good pride' represents our dignity and self-respect. 'Bad pride' is the deadly sin of superiority that reeks of conceit and arrogance.


          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Why Brothers Prefer BodyBuilding over Defensive Arts?

            Originally posted by SILURES View Post
            @sandman. cracking answers man.

            all these people pitting bodybuilders against trained fighters are silly. bodybuilding is not a martial art or any kind of fighting style. its like saying a formular one driver would be a bmx rider in a race. of coarse they would lol.


            that krav maga technique in the vid is very sloppy, when he does it in slow mo it looks *almost* plausible but in actual movement the barrel of the gun didnt once leave his chest. one squeze of the trigger and lights out.
            Thanks, I hope I clarified that I am not pro- "beach muscles". I am however pro-"functional strength", which will show in an athletic physic. Take for example Geroge St. Pierre he has a very athletic physic and I am sure it helps him with take downs and take down defence. I doubt just "karate" or Karate + wrestling would be as effective as he is if strength wasn't a big part of his training (despite his claims otherwise).

            There are plenty of people that fit the "big for nothing" description. many lack skill, timing, aggression. Others are extremely "gun shy" and have never had to deal with someone actually willing to hurt them because there size always saw them through confrontations. many times I have been sparring a guy that out-weighs me and could literally crush me or KO me with one punch but they are simply no good under pressure or stress, that is to say they cannot deploy strength or power while being attacked. Still you have to be careful, quick and careful, also understanding body mechanics is a huge advantage in both armed and unarmed combat.

            "Gun disarms work as long as the guy holding the gun believes they do."
            By Him in whose Hand is the Soul of Muhammad, there is not one from the nations of the Jews and the Christians who hears about me and then dies while he has not believed in what I have been sent with except that he will be one of the companions of the Fire”. (Reported by Muslim in kitaabul Imaan)
            www.treasureofthescholars.wordpress.com

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            • #66
              Re: Why Brothers Prefer BodyBuilding over Defensive Arts?

              Originally posted by AX1300 View Post
              Most martial art instructors will tell you to back down if someone approaches you with a knife.

              Knives are nasty and give horrendous injuries. Learning a martial art doesn't make you superman.
              A 5 year old with a knife possesses the ability to kill you. All it takes is a cm or so of the blade to enter your body. That doesn't mean all knife defence is useless it simply means and I say this a lot: "weapons change everything".. It isn't strictly true but it is a phrase worth remembering. A 8 stone untrained woman figting a determined yet untrained 14 stone man will have a hard time physically defending herself. Put a knife in her hand and give her a basic understanding of how to use it, and that man really needs to think twice before he attacks.
              By Him in whose Hand is the Soul of Muhammad, there is not one from the nations of the Jews and the Christians who hears about me and then dies while he has not believed in what I have been sent with except that he will be one of the companions of the Fire”. (Reported by Muslim in kitaabul Imaan)
              www.treasureofthescholars.wordpress.com

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              • #67
                Re: Why Brothers Prefer BodyBuilding over Defensive Arts?

                We don't need your wisdom to realize that a gun is more dangerous than our arms and legs. Perhaps you live in some other world where everybody is armed and guns are sold in grocery stores. We don't have the right to carry weapons, not even a baseball club. That is why we need to know how to better punch and kick. We'll have better odds.

                Mind that in martial arts, various weapons are used...And not for dancing. This is not dancing sir, you know nothing about martial arts. It's easy to talk martial arts and fighting on a chair in front of a monitor, recalling gong fu seminars and jet li movies, reality is something else.

                I just want you to think about your future, when your muscles are gone. What's your plan to defend yourself? What would be the use of all those weights you've lifted before?

                I hope you get the catch.

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                • #68
                  Re: Why Brothers Prefer BodyBuilding over Defensive Arts?

                  To simplify things Muscles conditioned well and strength works hand in hand with Self defeence training whatever it maybe. It's about hitting harder and not getting hurt yourself, correct me if i'm wrong and muscle mass certainly helps and so does technique. Simple
                  "A single day of a Lions life is worth more than a hundered years of the life of a fox" (Final moments of Tipu Sultan)
                  "don't weep like a woman for what you could not defend as a man" (mother of Muhammad XII, Final moments of Muslim rule in Spain)

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                  • #69
                    Re: Why Brothers Prefer BodyBuilding over Defensive Arts?

                    Yes it does, everything helps. Everybody does strength training, even shaolin monks. But it's much better to hit hard where it really hurts, even when you don't hit hard it still hurts. Some places are gonna remain weak no matter how you train them, martial artists learn all their lives how to hit there. That's why you should fear a martial artist even if he's emaciated.

                    For example you don't even need a closed fist to stop blood flow to the head, you just have to be sneaky. You can use the opponent collar and his own resistance to choke him in a matter of seconds. You can use your arms, feet...You'll be amazed at the possibilities. If your opponent doesn't know how to protect his neck, he's in big trouble...He won't be able to use his muscles well because you'll not give him the right distance...You're trained to do that. You'll suffer a couple of seconds but you'll be happier in the end. Every trick you learn will give you better odds.
                    Last edited by sclavus; 05-10-11, 12:01 AM.

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                    • #70
                      Re: Why Brothers Prefer BodyBuilding over Defensive Arts?

                      Originally posted by sclavus View Post
                      We don't need your wisdom to realize that a gun is more dangerous than our arms and legs. Perhaps you live in some other world where everybody is armed and guns are sold in grocery stores. We don't have the right to carry weapons, not even a baseball club. That is why we need to know how to better punch and kick. We'll have better odds.
                      Everything can be used as a weapon. A brick wall, a passing/parked vehicle, a pen, your mobile, etc it just takes the right mental attitude and training to recognise the multitude of options we have around us at all times. Even the ground is a weapon when used right. In the Uk nothing you carry can be classified as "For self defence" or "a weapon" even if you classify an apple as such you can get prosecuted.

                      The conversation on "martial arts" changes depending on the context that we are speakin. Everyday self-defence is a different scenerio to say all out Jihad.

                      Mind that in martial arts, various weapons are used...And not for dancing. This is not dancing sir, you know nothing about martial arts. It's easy to talk martial arts and fighting on a chair in front of a monitor, recalling gong fu seminars and jet li movies, reality is something else.
                      This needs to be directed to someone. In case its directed at me I am qualified to teach Weapons which also carries over into unarmed application of body mechanics, footwork, etc. And agreed reality is something not comparable to the latest Donnie Yen flick.

                      I just want you to think about your future, when your muscles are gone. What's your plan to defend yourself? What would be the use of all those weights you've lifted before?
                      Timing, balance, focus etc will have to suffice when your physical strength is inferior to an opponent (assuming you are both unarmed). However, the divide in strength, explosive energy and speed will all count against your odds of success to believe otherwise is akin to thinking the heart exploding palm technique is real or that you actually can pirce a guy's brain by palming him in the nose.

                      Originally posted by sclavus View Post
                      Yes it does, everything helps. Everybody does strength training, even shaolin monks. But it's much better to hit hard where it really hurts, even when you don't hit hard it still hurts. Some places are gonna remain weak no matter how you train them, martial artists learn all their lives how to hit there. That's why you should fear a martial artist even if he's emaciated.
                      Every opponent has a chance of ending your life trained or otherwise. Just because someone takes a "martial arts" stance to attack you doesn't give them any more or any less reason to be feared. Treat everyone the same and do what is necessary to insure your safety. Someone that purposely gets a goo head lock and drops their weight to break your neck and someone who grabs your neck and slips the fall breaking you neck results in you having a broken neck. Training is irrelevant. Take the aggressor out swiftly and brutally when necessary regardless of him being Kung fu Joe or karate bob.

                      For example you don't even need a closed fist to stop blood flow to the head, you just have to be sneaky. You can use the opponent collar and his own resistance to choke him in a matter of seconds. You can use your arms, feet...You'll be amazed at the possibilities. If your opponent doesn't know how to protect his neck, he's in big trouble...He won't be able to use his muscles well because you'll not give him the right distance...You're trained to do that. You'll suffer a couple of seconds but you'll be happier in the end. Every trick you learn will give you better odds.
                      Man instinctively protects his "crown jewels", his eyes and his throat. Applying a choke in reality is very different to doing so in a Judo or Jujitsu class. you also have to come into clinch/grappling range to apply a choke it is at these ranges that superior strength becomes extremely dangerous and unless you are well versed in fluidity, leverage and body mechanics you could find yourself in some very real trouble.

                      On top of all of that people always assume its:

                      Guy with athletic muscular body VS guy with The deadly martial arts but not truly strong

                      as opposed to

                      Guy with athletic powerful body that also has considerable martial skill Vs Guy with the deadly martial arts.

                      There is no advantage in being small and weak. I am not saying a smaller person has no chance against a larger opponent I am simply recommending that we cover as many bases as possible. There is no harm in becoming athletic and explosively strong. Bulking up to the point that mobility is lost is a different discussion.
                      By Him in whose Hand is the Soul of Muhammad, there is not one from the nations of the Jews and the Christians who hears about me and then dies while he has not believed in what I have been sent with except that he will be one of the companions of the Fire”. (Reported by Muslim in kitaabul Imaan)
                      www.treasureofthescholars.wordpress.com

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                      • #71
                        Re: Why Brothers Prefer BodyBuilding over Defensive Arts?

                        Agreed, brother.

                        I only meant that when the mass is gone, your techniques remain.

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                        • #72
                          Re: Why Brothers Prefer BodyBuilding over Defensive Arts?

                          Originally posted by sclavus View Post
                          Agreed, brother.

                          I only meant that when the mass is gone, your techniques remain.
                          I sure hope so, because I'm not as young as I used to be.
                          By Him in whose Hand is the Soul of Muhammad, there is not one from the nations of the Jews and the Christians who hears about me and then dies while he has not believed in what I have been sent with except that he will be one of the companions of the Fire”. (Reported by Muslim in kitaabul Imaan)
                          www.treasureofthescholars.wordpress.com

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                          • #73
                            Re: Why Brothers Prefer BodyBuilding over Defensive Arts?

                            Imaan and Taqwa are better tools for battle than size and martial arts. Remember the story of Ali(ra) and the Giant?
                            Allah will ask on the Day of Judgment: “Where are those who loved each other for the sake of My glory? Today, on a day when there is no shade but Mine, I shall shade them with My shade.”(Muslim)

                            "Zendagi Migzara..."

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                            • #74
                              Re: Why Brothers Prefer BodyBuilding over Defensive Arts?

                              Originally posted by NGE View Post
                              Imaan and Taqwa are better tools for battle than size and martial arts. Remember the story of Ali(ra) and the Giant?

                              One day Allah's Messenger, sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam, noticed a
                              Bedouin leaving his camel without tying it. He asked the
                              Bedouin, "Why don't you tie down your camel?"
                              The Bedouin answered, "I placed my trust in Allah."
                              At that, the Prophet, sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam, said, "Tie
                              your camel and place your trust in Allah" - Tirmidhi
                              some training would help as well though

                              There are two kinds of pride, both good and bad. 'Good pride' represents our dignity and self-respect. 'Bad pride' is the deadly sin of superiority that reeks of conceit and arrogance.


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                              • #75
                                Re: Why Brothers Prefer BodyBuilding over Defensive Arts?

                                Originally posted by NGE View Post
                                Imaan and Taqwa are better tools for battle than size and martial arts. Remember the story of Ali(ra) and the Giant?
                                Silures pretty much nailed my reply to this.

                                None of us will have more Imaan or Taqwa than the Shahaba(RA) and they used swords, armour, etc. Even Nabi(SAW) wore armour.

                                Agreed that Imaan, dua, taqwa are our best weapons but we should indeed "tie our camels".

                                A fat over-weight, weak unskilled individual that uses the excuse of "I have taqwa so I needn't know how to fight", is simply lying to themselves. If they had that much taqwa they would be following the sunnah more closely.
                                By Him in whose Hand is the Soul of Muhammad, there is not one from the nations of the Jews and the Christians who hears about me and then dies while he has not believed in what I have been sent with except that he will be one of the companions of the Fire”. (Reported by Muslim in kitaabul Imaan)
                                www.treasureofthescholars.wordpress.com

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