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  • Bikinis bug Ikhwan.

    Bikinis bug Brotherhood; cover-up of monuments demanded

    By DAVID E. MILLER | THE MEDIA LINE
    Published: Aug 25, 2011 23:03 Updated: Aug 25, 2011 23:03
    CAIRO: Sunbathing in Alexandria may soon be a thing of the past, at least if some Egyptian politicians have their way.
    Egypt’s tourism industry has suffered a severe blow since the outburst of anti-regime demonstrations in January. But that did not stop the Freedom and Justice Party, the political wing of the Muslim Brotherhood, from demanding stricter regulations over what tourists can do and wear while visiting the country. The party is urging officials to ban skimpy swimwear and the consumption of alcohol on Egyptian streets.
    “Beach tourism must take the values and norms of our society into account,” Muhammad Saad Al-Katatny, secretary-general of Freedom and Justice, told Egyptian tourism officials. “We must place regulations on tourists wishing to visit Egypt, which we will announce in advance.”
    The call for new strictures on tourists comes as Egypt debates the role of Islam in the post-Mubarak era. Freedom and Justice is competing in elections scheduled for this autumn for Parliament and opinion polls show a majority of Egyptians favor a greater use of Islamic law and mores.
    Along with Suez Canal tolls and energy exports, tourism is a major source of foreign exchange for Egypt. But with protests, strikes, and continued violence in the cities and Sinai Peninsula months after President Hosni Mubarak was forced to step down, foreigners have hesitated to visit the country, which offers some of the world’s most spectacular antiquities as well as beaches and scuba diving. Finance Minister Hazem Al-Beblawi told Reuters earlier this month that revenue from tourism would likely total $10 billion in the financial year that started on July 1, compared with $11.6 billion in 2009/10.
    Al-Katatny told Al-Masry Al-Youm daily that his party had already set up a subcommittee to investigate the issue of incoming tourism to Egypt and planned to amend legislation following the upcoming parliamentary elections.
    “Some slight changes will be made in public beaches, to make the situation better than it was before,” Ali Khafagy, youth director of Freedom and Justice in Giza, told The Media Line. “Bathing suits and mixing on the beach are things that go against our tradition. It’s not just a matter of religion. When I go to the beach I don’t want to see nudity.”
    He said modest bathing gear or separate beaches for men and women are possible alternatives to the current situation. Khafagy stressed that tourists would be free to do as they please in specially designated areas, adding that his party supported incoming tourism to the country. But that did not satisfy the heads of Egypt’s tourism industry, who met with the party’s Secretary-General Al-Katatny for a heated debate on Monday. “Without alcohol and bathing suits, no tourists will come and we will loose $13 billion a year,” Hussam A-Shaer, head of the tourist company association, told Al-Masry Al-Youm.
    But bathing suits are not the only worry of Egypt’s conservatives. Abd Al-Munim A-Shahhat, a spokesman for the Salafi group Dawa, has said that Egypt’s world-renowned pharaonic archaeology — its pyramids, Sphinx and other monuments covered with un-Islamic imagery — should also be hidden from the public eye.
    “The pharaonic culture is a rotten culture,” A-Shahhat told Asharq Al-Awsat, saying the faces of ancient statues “should be covered with wax, since they are religiously forbidden.” He likened the Egyptian relics to the idols, which circled the walls of Makkah in pre-Islamic times. The challenges to the tourism industry in post-revolutionary Egypt have led to the establishment of the Coalition to Support Tourism, whose members also met with Al-Katatny.
    The coalition, which includes a broad array of travel industry organizations and figures, argued that the real problem isn’t modesty but the absence of any strategy on the part of Egypt’s new parties to protect the country’s faltering tourism industry.
    “Some parties want to ban tourism, or allow it while banning alcohol, certain foods and certain clothes. (A couple) renting a room will require documents proving they are married,” wrote the coalition administrator on the group’s Facebook page. “These proposals don’t bode well, as many of you know.”
    Henry of the American University said two classes of beaches already exist in Egypt, with modestly dressed, generally poor Egyptians occupying some and foreign tourists occupying others, mostly in the resorts of the Sinai Peninsula. He said he considered imposition of Shariah in Egypt “an act of aggression” that he would not tolerate.
    Close to 60 Western tourists were killed by terrorists in the southern city of Luxor in 1997. Tourists were also attacked in bombings in the Sinai resorts of Taba, Sharm Al-Sheikh and Dahab in 2004, 2005 and 2006. But Al-Kantatny said that the Muslim Brotherhood regards Egypt’s archaeology as belonging to all of humanity, and should therefore be safeguarded.
    “This heritage belongs to everyone, and one can’t simply remove something he doesn’t like,” he told Al-Ahram daily.

    http://arabnews.com/middleeast/article493760.ece
    Where there are no Ulemah(Scholars) there are many Muftis.

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  • #2
    Re: Bikinis bug Ikhwan.

    -separate beaches should do the deal but what do they mean about "covering monuments from the public eye"? With wax????? That's crazy, no one forces anyone to see them but there are people interested in history and archeology
    My Blog http://historyeyesopened.tumblr.com/ Watch out sister Nousername
    Ummah forum mentality depiction by BBC (warning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

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    • #3
      Re: Bikinis bug Ikhwan.

      Originally posted by Massilia View Post
      -separate beaches should do the deal but what do they mean about "covering monuments from the public eye"? With wax????? That's crazy, no one forces anyone to see them but there are people interested in history and archeology
      there is a difference between ruins in general which can be left in place and idols and raised graves which are meant to be destroyed whether anyone is worshipping them or not.

      islam trumps tourism every time.

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      • #4
        Re: Bikinis bug Ikhwan.

        Originally posted by abu_fulan_fulan View Post
        there is a difference between ruins in general which can be left in place and idols and raised graves which are meant to be destroyed whether anyone is worshipping them or not.

        islam trumps tourism every time.
        It's not about tourism, it's part of history of Egypt whether we like it or not and denying it is stupid, even when there was caliphate, the pyramids were still there who are you to say otherwise?
        Idols are in museums not in the tombs, in there you only find images half erased with time but still precious. Second they're not idols anymore, they have the status of archeological finds : statues, jewellery, testimony of a civilisation and that is it.
        So your terms are wrong. I don't call this idols.


        But i'll be interested to know what's the plan to find 13 billions of dollars to replace. Instead of talking of destruction. Program or something?
        My Blog http://historyeyesopened.tumblr.com/ Watch out sister Nousername
        Ummah forum mentality depiction by BBC (warning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

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        • #5
          Re: Bikinis bug Ikhwan.

          why cover them with wax when u can bomb them into pieces? ... :banbear:



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          • #6
            Re: Bikinis bug Ikhwan.

            Originally posted by Massilia View Post
            -separate beaches should do the deal but what do they mean about "covering monuments from the public eye"? With wax????? That's crazy, no one forces anyone to see them but there are people interested in history and archeology
            statues are harram.
            And the (faithful) slaves of the Most Gracious (Allâh) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness. (25:63)

            O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a trade that will save you from a painful torment? (10) That you believe in Allâh and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW),and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allâh with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (11) (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Adn (Edn) Paradise; that is indeed the great success. (12)

            JazakAllah khair for the duas but i would prefer duas for shahadah instead.

            sponsor an orphan

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            • #7
              Re: Bikinis bug Ikhwan.

              Originally posted by Massilia View Post
              It's not about tourism, it's part of history of Egypt whether we like it or not and denying it is stupid, even when there was caliphate, the pyramids were still there who are you to say otherwise?
              Idols are in museums not in the tombs, in there you only find images half erased with time but still precious. Second they're not idols anymore, they have the status of archeological finds : statues, jewellery, testimony of a civilisation and that is it.
              So your terms are wrong. I don't call this idols.


              But i'll be interested to know what's the plan to find 13 billions of dollars to replace. Instead of talking of destruction. Program or something?
              sister, if we seen an old idol worshiped by quraish would you say the same thing about it? that its a piece of history and all that?

              sister at the end of the day its an idol.
              And the (faithful) slaves of the Most Gracious (Allâh) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness. (25:63)

              O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a trade that will save you from a painful torment? (10) That you believe in Allâh and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW),and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allâh with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (11) (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Adn (Edn) Paradise; that is indeed the great success. (12)

              JazakAllah khair for the duas but i would prefer duas for shahadah instead.

              sponsor an orphan

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bikinis bug Ikhwan.

                Originally posted by uncle umar View Post
                sister, if we seen an old idol worshiped by quraish would you say the same thing about it? that its a piece of history and all that?

                sister at the end of the day its an idol.
                No an idol is worshipped, people made simple rocks as "idols" can't I sit on a rock along a beach then? It's a statue you're not allowed to do sculpture.
                if they don't want them they can transfer the museum finds to Berlin Paris or London
                But as i said, if they don't find a way to replace 13 billions, they won't do anything about it unless they want riots.
                My Blog http://historyeyesopened.tumblr.com/ Watch out sister Nousername
                Ummah forum mentality depiction by BBC (warning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

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                • #9
                  Re: Bikinis bug Ikhwan.

                  you point about rocks is valid but you do realize that the prophet pbuh forbade us to do things like that right?

                  i mean, he even told us to forget about our ancestors who fought in jahiliya wars.

                  it put these things in museums and to make money off of them is very degrading. statues and pictures are harram in themself but when they were idols that just makes it all that much worse sister. as for the rock thing, there is no outward sign that the rock was worshiped so there is no way to tell ,but an idol that was carved or created we can see and tell what its purpose was because of its being created.
                  And the (faithful) slaves of the Most Gracious (Allâh) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness. (25:63)

                  O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a trade that will save you from a painful torment? (10) That you believe in Allâh and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW),and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allâh with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (11) (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Adn (Edn) Paradise; that is indeed the great success. (12)

                  JazakAllah khair for the duas but i would prefer duas for shahadah instead.

                  sponsor an orphan

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bikinis bug Ikhwan.

                    Originally posted by uncle umar View Post
                    you point about rocks is valid but you do realize that the prophet pbuh forbade us to do things like that right?

                    i mean, he even told us to forget about our ancestors who fought in jahiliya wars.

                    it put these things in museums and to make money off of them is very degrading. statues and pictures are harram in themself but when they were idols that just makes it all that much worse sister. as for the rock thing, there is no outward sign that the rock was worshiped so there is no way to tell ,but an idol that was carved or created we can see and tell what its purpose was because of its being created.
                    reminds me of the hadith where Rasoolullaah (saws) said one of the reasons the jews were cursed was that they traded in what Allaah had forbidden them for themselves.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Bikinis bug Ikhwan.

                      Is there actually anything about studying archeology ? Or is it extrapolation?

                      The only thing i know is you are not allowed to create pictures of living things and you are not allowed to create statues, the creators have been dead for 5 000 years now. We're not creators.

                      I don't know what is the culture of Egyptian museums, if you need to pay or if it is free, they're free for me in where i live and they're free in London.
                      What would you know about signs showing something is worshipped or not?
                      My Blog http://historyeyesopened.tumblr.com/ Watch out sister Nousername
                      Ummah forum mentality depiction by BBC (warning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

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                      • #12
                        Re: Bikinis bug Ikhwan.

                        pyramids aren't idols, they're buildings

                        He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}]
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                        www.Quran.com

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                        • #13
                          Re: Bikinis bug Ikhwan.

                          Originally posted by Massilia View Post
                          even when there was caliphate, the pyramids were still there who are you to say otherwise?
                          yes, pyramids were still there

                          however, many sculptures were defaced or destroyed, on the basis of aniconist prescriptions in Islam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism_in_Islam

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                          • #14
                            Re: Bikinis bug Ikhwan.

                            Originally posted by noobz View Post
                            why cover them with wax when u can bomb them into pieces? ... :banbear:
                            of course

                            just bomb into pieces the entire history of humankind, and make up a new one

                            that way, you can be sure you will be happy with it

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                            • #15
                              Re: Bikinis bug Ikhwan.

                              Originally posted by luisa View Post
                              yes, pyramids were still there

                              however, many sculptures were defaced or destroyed, on the basis of aniconist prescriptions in Islam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism_in_Islam
                              Your usual rant is getting tiring, defacing and destruction happened all along Antiquity way before Islam and things were already damaged before their arrival. Remember something like christianisation of Egypt, or Egyptians thiefs even under pharaonic and Greek and Roman era? Funny you only mention Muslims
                              My Blog http://historyeyesopened.tumblr.com/ Watch out sister Nousername
                              Ummah forum mentality depiction by BBC (warning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

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