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  • resource based economy

    Lets imagine a world in the future, where everybody is truly equal and we no longer use a currency. Everything is provided free to everyone.

    How would Islam work in a world like this? There would be no zakat, charity, inheritance, or dowry.

  • #2
    Re: resource based economy

    My guess is that zakat would no longer be a pillar of faith, simply outdated, first of all because theirs nobody in need of support and everyone is equal, secondly no one has anything to give (cash, gold, etc.).

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: resource based economy

      Never heard of such a thing. What is a resource based economy? How does it work? Has it ever been implemented anywhere or is it just a theory?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: resource based economy

        Salam everyone

        Will never work.

        Humans are reward-based. They do things so that they may benefit from it, whether good or evil actions.

        For example, people do good to others because it makes them feel good. People study and work hard to get the wealth needed to support themselves and their family. People do crime as it is easy money, but if they are caught, they have to deal with the consequences.

        So imagine if people get everything for free, why then should a farmer spend all that time growing crops if he will not be paid for his efforts? SO if there are no farmers, how then can people eat?

        This reward system is one of the central concepts of Islam.

        You believe in Allah, or you don't; you do good or you don't - you will get rewarded for your choice.

        Thats what I think anyways. Might be wrong :1peace:
        Oh Allah, please make my best day the Day I meet You to answer for my sins, and please have mercy on the believers on the Day our deeds will be judged

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: resource based economy

          It is a system in which all goods and services are available without the use of money, credits, barter or any other system of debt or servitude. All resources become the common heritage of all of the inhabitants, not just a select few. The premise upon which this system is based is that the Earth is abundant with plentiful resource; our practice of rationing resources through monetary methods is irrelevant and counter productive to our survival. http://www.thevenusproject.com/a-new...-based-economy



          it can work, think how communities used to work before money. with technology farmers and other labor jobs wont be required. But people will still work if they want to but they wont have to. Food, accommodation, clothing, education, healthcare etc is all provided free by the government to everyone.

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          • #6
            Re: resource based economy

            it will just kill motivation. why whould I work hard if I'm only going to get the exact same thing as a lazy bum who doesn't care about education or working?
            Fabi-ayyiala -i rabbikuma tukaththibani
            Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny?
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr8DR8frP_s

            You are not here just to fill space or to be a background character in someone else's movie. Consider this: nothing would be the same if you did not exist. Every place you have ever been and everyone you have ever spoken to would be different without you. We are all connected, and we are all affected by the decisions and even the existence of those around us.

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            • #7
              Re: resource based economy

              ok think about it, if the government and everybody are working together for the benefit of everyone wouldn't u want to contribute. Would you just sit at home doing nothing? you will be motivated to do things you want to do not have to. You have to work so that you can pay rent, food etc, if that's taken care of you you volunteer, learn etc. people can do real jobs instead of jobs in advertising, financial( banks, insurance, loans etc.) and stock exchange will not exist, as these jobs produce no benefit for society.

              as well as 95% of crimes being eliminated in a system that is fair, and uses no money. There would be no reason for thefts of any kind, less violence as there will be equality.
              Last edited by anarkest; 27-08-11, 10:38 PM.

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              • #8
                Re: resource based economy

                I don't think that is a practical system. I don't think it would work.

                No one will volunteer to do anything unless they absolutely had to to pay bills. Have you ever done a job for 2+ years. Work is work. Work is rotten. Its got this icky feeling to it. Especailly if you are not on top of what your doing.

                You need money to have a market an economy which provides services to the masses. No one will ever to it for free.

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                • #9
                  Re: resource based economy

                  Resource-based economies tends to evolve into currency anyway, as history proves.

                  Zakat is 2.5% of certain parts of our wealth. Wealth includes money and resources, so Zakat is perfectly applicable in a resource based economy. It's a very very simple concept to understand! Look, a resourcebased economy still has markets, but in these markets, goods are exchanged directly rather than keeping a medium of mutual exchange. Therefore, all goods will still have a value, e.g. 1 bread is worth 2 eggs, and this is how resourcebased markets work! You could give a loaf of bread as Zakat, or a few eggs.

                  Like I said before, it can't last for long, currency is soo much more easier!
                  وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمۡ ءَامِنُواْ كَمَآ ءَامَنَ ٱلنَّاسُ قَالُوٓاْ أَنُؤۡمِنُ كَمَآ ءَامَنَ ٱلسُّفَهَآءُ*ۗ أَلَآ إِنَّهُمۡ هُمُ ٱلسُّفَهَآءُ وَلَـٰكِن لَّا يَعۡلَمُونَ


                  And when it is said unto them: believe as the people believe, they say: Shall we believe as the foolish believe? Beware! They indeed are the foolish? But they know not.
                  Al Baqarah : Verse 13

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: resource based economy

                    there would be no one to give the zakat to as everyone is taken care off equally.

                    the only way it will be possible is with technology. Automation will stop their being a need for a lot of jobs. technology will make things more efficient, such as automated farming and cooking. people will do jobs they have interest in and do it out of joy.


                    this vid is a bit about it
                    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...05277695921912
                    Last edited by anarkest; 28-08-11, 01:19 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: resource based economy

                      What do you mean by resource based economy? Do you mean to say Communism? Central ruler controls the amount everyone gets?
                      وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمۡ ءَامِنُواْ كَمَآ ءَامَنَ ٱلنَّاسُ قَالُوٓاْ أَنُؤۡمِنُ كَمَآ ءَامَنَ ٱلسُّفَهَآءُ*ۗ أَلَآ إِنَّهُمۡ هُمُ ٱلسُّفَهَآءُ وَلَـٰكِن لَّا يَعۡلَمُونَ


                      And when it is said unto them: believe as the people believe, they say: Shall we believe as the foolish believe? Beware! They indeed are the foolish? But they know not.
                      Al Baqarah : Verse 13

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: resource based economy

                        no its not communism, there is no central ruler, there's no government like there is now. its where everybody is truly equal.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: resource based economy

                          Originally posted by anarkest View Post
                          It is a system in which all goods and services are available without the use of money, credits, barter or any other system of debt or servitude. All resources become the common heritage of all of the inhabitants, not just a select few. The premise upon which this system is based is that the Earth is abundant with plentiful resource; our practice of rationing resources through monetary methods is irrelevant and counter productive to our survival. http://www.thevenusproject.com/a-new...-based-economy
                          This is nothing more than delusional idealism. All resources require a cost to be manufactured into goods, no matter if the technology used is primitive or thousands of years advanced.

                          Originally posted by anarkest View Post
                          it can work, think how communities used to work before money. with technology farmers and other labor jobs wont be required. But people will still work if they want to but they wont have to. Food, accommodation, clothing, education, healthcare etc is all provided free by the government to everyone.
                          Before currency there was bartering and all commodities most certainly did not belong to the "society at large" wherein every member of society is given their due share on an equal basis. And, who do you think is going to pay for this food, clothing, education, and health-care? That is paid through taxation collected from the citizens. The government does not produce its own wealth, let alone have an endless stockpile of goods to draw funding from.

                          Originally posted by anarkest View Post
                          ok think about it, if the government and everybody are working together for the benefit of everyone wouldn't u want to contribute. Would you just sit at home doing nothing? you will be motivated to do things you want to do not have to. You have to work so that you can pay rent, food etc, if that's taken care of you you volunteer, learn etc. people can do real jobs instead of jobs in advertising, financial( banks, insurance, loans etc.) and stock exchange will not exist, as these jobs produce no benefit for society.
                          You clearly do not understand human nature. "True" equality where everyone is equal in wealth, happiness, skill, education, and health is impossible. Humans are not carbon copies of each other, some are more ambitious and skillful thus require a higher standard of living to be content, while others are less ambitious and are content with a very humble standard of living. As a result, there will always be a wealth disparity. Your ideal society may be perfect for robots, but definitely not humans.

                          Originally posted by anarkest View Post
                          there would be no one to give the zakat to as everyone is taken care off equally.

                          the only way it will be possible is with technology. Automation will stop their being a need for a lot of jobs. technology will make things more efficient, such as automated farming and cooking. people will do jobs they have interest in and do it out of joy.
                          You have a an incorrect understanding of the increase in technology and its implications on the job market. With more work being automated (the increase of AI technology), the more general laborers are put out of work and must opt for higher education in order to find work. Also, technological singularity is NOT in the best interest of mankind and there should be a limit on AI. Finally, some jobs will never be able to be performed by an autonomous robot (scientist, engineer, doctor, teacher, police officer, etc.). The only practical use of robots without any drawbacks would be in the general labor industry.

                          Originally posted by anarkest View Post
                          no its not communism, there is no central ruler, there's no government like there is now. its where everybody is truly equal.
                          Again, a human society wherein everyone is truly equal is impossible. Usually, when this is put into practice, all the power and wealth is concentrated and centralized into the ruler or government, which is communism. "Spreading the wealth" and "true equality" are defining hallmarks of a communist government and the marxist ideology, which has been shown time and time again to be an epic failure.

                          Simply put, what you're advocating for is not practical and is contrary to human nature.
                          Last edited by Muwahid_; 28-08-11, 11:58 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: resource based economy

                            in a resource economy the government wouldn't ask do we have enough money to do X, they would ask do we have the resources to do x. there is no cost if you do not use a currency, perhaps an energy cost or materials cost, but those shouldn't be a problem to cover. if you don't charge a dollar for that water then it wont cost a dollar, simple.

                            think tribal villages, they work without barter, some one cooks, some one hunts, some one heals but they all work together as a community. i think humans are better than to only be motivated my material things. You don't need to tax the citizens as their all working for the benefit of the society. there would be no pointless jobs, all jobs would be useful. this is a system where the people and government are together unlike most systems where they are against each other.

                            by equal i mean that they will be provided with the same rights not be the same person, money causes corruption as some people are wealthier than others. equal as in provided the same housing, food, healthcare etc, as everybody else. it is not against human nature to be equal

                            Last edited by anarkest; 28-08-11, 11:59 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: resource based economy

                              Originally posted by anarkest View Post
                              in a resource economy the government wouldn't ask do we have enough money to do X, they would ask do we have the resources to do x. there is no cost if you do not use a currency, perhaps an energy cost or materials cost, but those shouldn't be a problem to cover. if you don't charge a dollar for that water then it wont cost a dollar, simple.
                              A resource economy is not sustainable, as even renewable resources will run out at some point in time before it can recover and be used, let alone non-renewable resources. Also, the government in charge will always be looking for more cost-effective methods of extracting those resources, and thus the need for private industry and certain professionals (engineers, scientists, etc.) and general workers will always be necessary. Since private industry can never be eliminated in a functioning society, the wealth disparity will always exist.

                              Originally posted by anarkest View Post
                              think tribal villages, they work without barter, some one cooks, some one hunts, some one heals but they all work together as a community. i think humans are better than to only be motivated my material things. You don't need to tax the citizens as their all working for the benefit of the society. there would be no pointless jobs, all jobs would be useful. this is a system where the people and government are together unlike most systems where they are against each other.
                              What worked for tribal villages simply is not practical in post-industrial cities and nations. And what you think is incorrect, unless those humans are deeply religious and connected to Allah (SWT). Humans are naturally ambitious and always want what they can't have. And if you can't tax the citizens, the government will have no revenue to perform its most basic of functions unless it draws from the "public bank", which would then imply that not all citizens would get their fair share of the public wealth. Also, some professions are intrinsically more valuable to society at large than others. For example, a doctor will always be able to earn more than a general laborer, unless their salaries are regulated by the government, which is communism. It seems you have very poor understanding of even basic economics.

                              Originally posted by anarkest View Post
                              by equal i mean that they will be provided with the same rights not be the same person, money causes corruption as some people are wealthier than others. equal as in provided the same housing, food, healthcare etc, as everybody else. it is not against human nature to be equal
                              This is impractical and is the central tenet of the marxist ideology. As stated earlier, all professions are not equal and thus the wealth disparity will always exist unless salaries and personal wealth are regulated by the government, which again is communism.
                              Last edited by Muwahid_; 28-08-11, 12:17 PM.

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