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"Honor" Killings

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  • #16
    Re: "Honor" Killings

    Originally posted by Safiya View Post
    Besides, in whose eyes is their family "honour" meant to be held?
    This is a fascinating discussion, Safiya, try to look at it this way: a family's reputation is like their passport into society. As long as they have a good reputation, they will be invited to social occasions; other people will be okay associating with them; it will be easier for their children to get married; and they can have a say in community affairs, etc.

    However, when something happens which damages their reputation, all of a sudden their passport is revoked. People might not want to invite them to social occasions anymore lest they be judged negatively by the wider community for doing so; other people might not want to associate with them in order to avoid acquiring the same kind of reputation as them (i.e. guilty by association); their children might have a harder time getting married because other families might not want to marry into a family with such a dubious reputation; they might lose their ability to have a say in community affairs because they have such a shameful cloud surrounding them, etc.

    I'm not trying to justify "honor" killings but as you can see, living in such an environment, it's almost pragmatic for families to do such things. So HOW do we change the way people react to such situations? Is there a different way we can give them to restore their "honor" and "reputation"?
    Last edited by haque; 19-06-11, 01:03 AM.
    Salam! :)

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    • #17
      Re: "Honor" Killings

      Leave the village. Relocate. Everything is new. No one knows you. No one will judge you. New beginning. Hopefully this time they'll do it right.
      Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

      "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
      - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: "Honor" Killings

        Do they even ask them selves if they love their daughter or their village more? How can you raise a child, bring her into the world and take care of her, then she makes a mistake and all that love is lost and you murder her?? It makes me wonder if they even love their daughters in the first place...
        Fabi-ayyiala -i rabbikuma tukaththibani
        Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny?
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr8DR8frP_s

        You are not here just to fill space or to be a background character in someone else's movie. Consider this: nothing would be the same if you did not exist. Every place you have ever been and everyone you have ever spoken to would be different without you. We are all connected, and we are all affected by the decisions and even the existence of those around us.

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        • #19
          Re: "Honor" Killings

          people that kill their own blood also bring shame on the family/clan so according to their own logic people who do "honor killings" should themselves be "honor killed" :up:

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          • #20
            Re: "Honor" Killings

            Originally posted by nousername View Post
            Do they even ask them selves if they love their daughter or their village more? How can you raise a child, bring her into the world and take care of her, then she makes a mistake and all that love is lost and you murder her?? It makes me wonder if they even love their daughters in the first place...
            When people are in a state of ignorance, they are capable of anything.

            Here we are talking about the issue of honour killings. In pre-Islamic Arabia they would bury their daughters alive. In India women used to throw themselves on the burning pyre of their dead husbands.

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            • #21
              Re: "Honor" Killings

              Originally posted by SILURES View Post
              its just culture isnt it? every culture has the same even western culture. how many times have you read/heard a man killed or attacked another man for cheating with his wife then killed her to? its not just a eastern/arab type thing.

              one thing people say to try and show islam allows it is a hadith (ill try and find it now) that says something like there will be no punishment for a parent who kills their own child? anyone seen that and knows what it actually means?
              Silures you must be of your rocker here ...

              the Quran Explicitely describes such practices as Abhorable, Despicable ... Those Children killed will be raised up on the Day of Judgement and Justice served to those who took their lives ...

              Culteral pracices are often found to be rather Despicable ... it's got nothing to do with Islam.

              regards.
              http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

              "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

              – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: "Honor" Killings

                Originally posted by haque View Post
                However, when something happens which damages their reputation, all of a sudden their passport is revoked. People might not want to invite them to social occasions anymore lest they be judged negatively by the wider community for doing so; other people might not want to associate with them in order to avoid acquiring the same kind of reputation as them (i.e. guilty by association); their children might have a harder time getting married because other families might not want to marry into a family with such a dubious reputation; they might lose their ability to have a say in community affairs because they have such a shameful cloud surrounding them, etc.

                I'm not trying to justify "honor" killings but as you can see, living in such an environment, it's almost pragmatic for families to do such things. So HOW do we change the way people react to such situations? Is there a different way we can give them to restore their "honor" and "reputation"?
                The practice of honor killings is, obviously, rooted in the erroneous notion that the honor of a family revolves around the sexual conduct of women. This leads many Muslim men to murder their young daughters or sisters in cold blood. This inhuman practice, a modern version of the pre-Islamic practice of burying female babies alive, is present in some Muslim countries.

                A woman can be targeted by her family for a variety of reasons, including infidelity, premarital sex or seeking a divorce from even an abusive husband. The mere perception that a woman has behaved in a way that “dishonors” her family is sufficient to trigger an attack on her life.

                A raped woman is killed by her relatives because she is a source of shame to her family and the only “manly” way to regain the family honor is by shedding her blood.

                Refusing to enter into an arranged marriage is also an excuse to kill a girl. In 2008 three teenage girls were buried alive by their tribe in a remote village in Pakistan as punishment for damaging the honor of their families after they refused to enter forced marriages. Over the course of six years, more than 4,000 women have died as victims of honor killings in Pakistan from 1999 to 2004. In a recent media report from the subcontinent, a 50-year-old Muslim woman was forced to walk naked on the streets after it was suspected one of her sons had had an affair with a neighbor.

                It is ironic that many Muslim communities have developed a sense of honor that is far removed from the fundamental teachings of the Holy Qur’an. The most honorable in the eyes of Allah is the most righteous irrespective of sex or tribe.

                “O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.” (Al-Hujurat: 13)

                Women have no specific criminal laws in Islam. Sex outside marriage is unlawful and its punishment, which does not distinguish between man and woman, has also been clearly specified.

                But those obsessed with their spurious honor have scant respect for the Holy Book. When an unmarried man, a son or a brother, commits a sexual violation, his relatives condone it in violation of religious law and defends him against criticism.

                On the other hand, if the offender is an unmarried or married daughter or sister, the relatives kill her.
                The punishment for a sexual offense committed by an unmarried woman or man, according to Islamic law, is usually only a specific number of lashes. In any case, whether the suspect is married or unmarried, there are specific legal procedures to be followed.

                Another major legal issue involved in the honor killing is that the girl’s relatives believe that their honor is compromised just because a girl talked or met with another man. It is not an act that deserves execution according to Islamic teachings (Shariah).

                It has also been noted that a potentially erring woman’s relatives are persuaded to kill her after only hearing some rumors. According to Islamic law, no person should be punished without concrete evidence, particularly when slanderous allegations against women are involved. A man or woman is viewed as innocent unless the case is proven beyond doubt by four witnesses as stated in the Holy Qur’an: “Why did not the believers — men and women — when you heard of the affair — put the best construction on it in their own minds and say, ‘This (charge) is an obvious lie?’ Why did they not bring four witnesses to prove it? When they have not brought the witnesses, such men, in the sight of Allah, (stand forth) themselves as liars!” (Al-Noor: 12 and 13).

                A believer should not be influenced by the principles of false tribal honor of the days before the Prophet (peace be upon him). On the other hand, Muslims should follow the Holy Qur’an, which says: “Do they then seek the judgement of (the Days of) Ignorance? And who is better in judgment than Allah for a people who have firm Faith.” (Al-Maidah: 50)

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                • #23
                  Re: "Honor" Killings

                  Originally posted by .mirror. View Post
                  Which hadith?
                  Originally posted by RazielTemp View Post
                  Silures you must be of your rocker here ...

                  the Quran Explicitely describes such practices as Abhorable, Despicable ... Those Children killed will be raised up on the Day of Judgement and Justice served to those who took their lives ...

                  Culteral pracices are often found to be rather Despicable ... it's got nothing to do with Islam.

                  regards.
                  found it. it wasnt a hadith it was iranian islamic court ruling so apologise for getting it wrong about being a hadith. the below quote is used quite a lot on anti islamic sites to justify their stance that islam allows honour killings and was taken from a article about honour killings.


                  According to paragraph 220 of Iran’s Islamic Penal Code, if the father or father’s father kills his child or grandchild, he will not be punished for murder. Physical punishment by a parent is permitted in Iranian law.

                  There are two kinds of pride, both good and bad. 'Good pride' represents our dignity and self-respect. 'Bad pride' is the deadly sin of superiority that reeks of conceit and arrogance.


                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: "Honor" Killings

                    Originally posted by SILURES View Post
                    found it. it wasnt a hadith it was iranian islamic court ruling so apologise for getting it wrong about being a hadith. the below quote is used quite a lot on anti islamic sites to justify their stance that islam allows honour killings and was taken from a article about honour killings.
                    ah, an iranian court ruling - so totally and utterly useless and not worth the paper its written on :up:

                    nothing to do with islam

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: "Honor" Killings

                      Originally posted by haque View Post
                      This is a fascinating discussion, Safiya, try to look at it this way: a family's reputation is like their passport into society. As long as they have a good reputation, they will be invited to social occasions; other people will be okay associating with them; it will be easier for their children to get married; and they can have a say in community affairs, etc.

                      However, when something happens which damages their reputation, all of a sudden their passport is revoked. People might not want to invite them to social occasions anymore lest they be judged negatively by the wider community for doing so; other people might not want to associate with them in order to avoid acquiring the same kind of reputation as them (i.e. guilty by association); their children might have a harder time getting married because other families might not want to marry into a family with such a dubious reputation; they might lose their ability to have a say in community affairs because they have such a shameful cloud surrounding them, etc.

                      I'm not trying to justify "honor" killings but as you can see, living in such an environment, it's almost pragmatic for families to do such things. So HOW do we change the way people react to such situations? Is there a different way we can give them to restore their "honor" and "reputation"?
                      In regards to the first two paragraphs, like I said - who are they doing this for? The answer is evident, for the people around them whom they are trying to please at the cost of the life of their wife/sister/daughter/cousin and the possibility of the cost of their admittance into Jannah; essentially, in defiance of the Shari'ah.

                      It might be pragmatic, but it is not Islamic and neither is it rational. Clearly, the problem lies within some societies as TwinklingStar pointed out, so what is the solution? To make these ignorant people think, get them using their brains - educate them in Islam. I know I say it like it's simple, but beyond that, prosecuting them and bringing them to justice would help.

                      "Honour" and "reputation"? It's the misconstrued ideas they have of these concepts (within Islam) that gets them to this point in the first place. Assessing what these mean might help, but firstly, realising there is no place in Islam for acts such as "honour killings" would be the priority.
                      Ya Muqallib al-Quloob, thabbit qalbi 'alaa Deenik
                      O' Converter of Hearts, make my heart steadfast upon Thy Way
                      We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: "Honor" Killings

                        Originally posted by -Shamil- View Post
                        ah, an iranian court ruling - so totally and utterly useless and not worth the paper its written on :up:

                        nothing to do with islam
                        yeah lol.

                        There are two kinds of pride, both good and bad. 'Good pride' represents our dignity and self-respect. 'Bad pride' is the deadly sin of superiority that reeks of conceit and arrogance.


                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: "Honor" Killings

                          Originally posted by SILURES View Post
                          found it. it wasnt a hadith it was iranian islamic court ruling so apologise for getting it wrong about being a hadith. the below quote is used quite a lot on anti islamic sites to justify their stance that islam allows honour killings and was taken from a article about honour killings.
                          :rotfl: a shia ruling? .... horse crap is worth more than what they write.



                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: "Honor" Killings

                            Originally posted by SILURES View Post
                            found it. it wasnt a hadith it was iranian islamic court ruling so apologise for getting it wrong about being a hadith. the below quote is used quite a lot on anti islamic sites to justify their stance that islam allows honour killings and was taken from a article about honour killings.
                            Wow! SubhanAllah.
                            Amazing. Never knew that.

                            Note to SILURES: That's not Islam, my friend.
                            Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                            "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                            - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: "Honor" Killings

                              Originally posted by -Shamil- View Post
                              ah, an iranian court ruling - so totally and utterly useless and not worth the paper its written on :up:

                              nothing to do with islam
                              Maybe they were influenced by the Bible:

                              Deuteronomy 21:18-21 ESV

                              “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

                              Then we have the Glorious Qur'an:
                              And kill not your children for fear of poverty. We shall provide for them as well as for you. Surely, the killing of them is a great sin.
                              ( سورة الإسراء , Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #31)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: "Honor" Killings

                                I was totally shocked to hear about libyans "honour killing" their raped daughters...i mean first your daughter has been raped..and then you murder her..?!?!?!?! That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever...its insane
                                Patience...

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