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  • "Honor" Killings

    I don't understand them. WHY do some people do this this? Is it to protect the "honor" of the family or something else?

    Discuss, iA.
    Salam! :)

  • #2
    Re: "Honor" Killings

    Yes, it's to "protect their reputation". Quite sad.
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    • #3
      Re: "Honor" Killings

      :salams

      They're :wacko: Ignorant, uneducated, senseless, people, I tell you. It's totally against Islam.
      And, even if someone is convicted of a crime that require hadd punishment, it can only be carried out by a Muslim ruler in a Shari state. Not the family.
      Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

      "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
      - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

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      • #4
        Re: "Honor" Killings

        Because They Are Sick In The Head
        And He found you lost and guided you,
        ~ Qur'an (Ad Duhaa) 93:7 ~

        Salaah Reminders

        Guide us to the straight pain.
        " Ihdina-s-sirata-l-mustaqim "
        ~ Quran 1:6 ~

        الله أعلم

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        • #5
          Re: "Honor" Killings

          I don't think we're meant to understand an act so irrational and disgusting.
          Ya Muqallib al-Quloob, thabbit qalbi 'alaa Deenik
          O' Converter of Hearts, make my heart steadfast upon Thy Way
          We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

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          • #6
            Re: "Honor" Killings

            Originally posted by Safiya View Post
            I don't think we're meant to understand an act so irrational and disgusting.
            While I think that it's easy to say that honor killings are irrational, I however think that they are cold-bloodedly pragmatic, and that's why people do them.

            So lets break this down:

            Problem: Girl does something sexual outside of marriage causing her family' reputation to be tarnished.
            "Solution": The girl is killed to recover the family's honor.

            Muslims argue that honor killings are haram because the person, who supposedly committed the crime, was not tried under Shari'ah, therefore, any actions taken against them are wrong i.e extra-judicial killings are wrong.

            So the obvious problem which comes to mind is that people who live in such cultures have no other way to "recover" their honor other than to kill the girl, who caused it to be tarnished in the first place. Considering that there is no country which applies Shari'ah in its entirety and it doesn't seem like any will start to do so anytime soon: how can we change the culture in those places in a way that sexual infractions are not dealt with in such a way?

            In other words, how do you tell people that there's no need for such killings when they obviously live in an environment which tells them that there is?
            Last edited by haque; 19-06-11, 01:00 AM.
            Salam! :)

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            • #7
              Re: "Honor" Killings

              I think it's to general to say "something sexual." Hadd punishment is only allowed if she was married and then had intercourse with another man. So, anything besides that is not allowed for hadd punishment, and it's never allowed for anyone to give he command for it, besides the ruler or Shari judge. Allahu Alam.

              It's major jahiliya, really. Akin to burying an infant child just because she's a girl.

              How do we fix this?

              Educate the parents on how to raise children Islamically and what to do if these situations come about.
              Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

              "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
              - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

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              • #8
                Re: "Honor" Killings

                its just culture isnt it? every culture has the same even western culture. how many times have you read/heard a man killed or attacked another man for cheating with his wife then killed her to? its not just a eastern/arab type thing.

                one thing people say to try and show islam allows it is a hadith (ill try and find it now) that says something like there will be no punishment for a parent who kills their own child? anyone seen that and knows what it actually means?

                There are two kinds of pride, both good and bad. 'Good pride' represents our dignity and self-respect. 'Bad pride' is the deadly sin of superiority that reeks of conceit and arrogance.


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                • #9
                  Re: "Honor" Killings

                  Originally posted by .mirror. View Post
                  Educate the parents on how to raise children Islamically and what to do if these situations come about.
                  You hit it on the head, but that's exactly the point of this thread: WHAT do you do when these kinds of situations arise?
                  Salam! :)

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                  • #10
                    Re: "Honor" Killings

                    Depends. Give me a scenario.
                    Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                    "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                    - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

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                    • #11
                      Re: "Honor" Killings

                      Originally posted by SILURES View Post
                      its just culture isnt it? every culture has the same even western culture. how many times have you read/heard a man killed or attacked another man for cheating with his wife then killed her to? its not just a eastern/arab type thing.

                      one thing people say to try and show islam allows it is a hadith (ill try and find it now) that says something like there will be no punishment for a parent who kills their own child? anyone seen that and knows what it actually means?
                      Which hadith?
                      Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                      "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                      - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: "Honor" Killings

                        Originally posted by .mirror. View Post
                        Depends. Give me a scenario.
                        An unmarried girl is caught having sex with a bunch of guys, the whole village thinks that the girl is promiscuous and her family has no class. Therefore, it's concluded by social consensus that nobody should associate with the girl or her family anymore, lest their negativity spreads to the other families in the area. What do you do?

                        P.S. if I said something offensive, please bring it to my attention and forgive me.
                        Salam! :)

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                        • #13
                          Re: "Honor" Killings

                          Originally posted by haque View Post
                          While I think that it's easy to say that honor killings are irrational, I however think that they are cold-bloodedly pragmatic, and that's why people do them.

                          So lets break this down:

                          Problem: Girl does something sexual outside of marriage causing her family' reputation to be tarnished.
                          "Solution": The girl is killed to recover the family's honor.

                          Muslims argue that honor killings are haram because the person, who supposedly committed the crime, was not tried under Shari'ah, therefore, any actions taken against them are wrong i.e extra-judicial killings are wrong.

                          So the obvious problem which comes to mind is that people who live in such cultures have no other way to "recover" their honor other than to kill the girl, who caused it to be tarnished in the first place. Considering that there is no country which applies Shari'ah in its entirety and it doesn't seem like any will start to do so anytime soon: how can we change the culture in those places in a way that sexual infractions are not dealt with in such a way?

                          In other words, how do you tell people that there's no need for such killings when they obviously live in an environment which tells them that there is?
                          Pragmatic? Perhaps.
                          Rational? No, which is kinda the point.

                          Anyway... Acceptable in Islam? No.

                          I can never understand how it somehow reclaims your family "honour", that makes no sense at all. If these people used their brains a little, they'd realise that their perception of "honour" is all wrong, never mind trying to reclaim it.

                          Besides, in whose eyes is their family "honour" meant to be held? For whom are they killing their wife/daughter/sister/niece/cousin? It's clearly not for the sake of Allah. The fact is, people who go to such extremes have deeper issues that need to be dealt with - their lack of Islam.
                          Ya Muqallib al-Quloob, thabbit qalbi 'alaa Deenik
                          O' Converter of Hearts, make my heart steadfast upon Thy Way
                          We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: "Honor" Killings

                            Originally posted by Safiya View Post
                            Pragmatic? Perhaps.
                            Rational? No, which is kinda the point.

                            Anyway... Acceptable in Islam? No.

                            I can never understand how it somehow reclaims your family "honour", that makes no sense at all. If these people used their brains a little, they'd realise that their perception of "honour" is all wrong, never mind trying to reclaim it.

                            Besides, in whose eyes is their family "honour" meant to be held? For whom are they killing their wife/daughter/sister/niece/cousin? It's clearly not for the sake of Allah. The fact is, people who go to such extremes have deeper issues that need to be dealt with - their lack of Islam.
                            I think they think they're amputating an irreparable diseased limb and disconnecting it from the family.

                            "This never belonged to us" kind of mentality.

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                            • #15
                              Re: "Honor" Killings

                              Originally posted by haque View Post
                              An unmarried girl is caught having sex with a bunch of guys, the whole village thinks that the girl is promiscuous and her family has no class. Therefore, it's concluded by social consensus that nobody should associate with the girl or her family anymore, lest their negativity spreads to the other families in the area. What do you do?
                              Number one - Forget the society (village). They got bigger problems at home to deal with.
                              Then, they should try to make her understand what she did was wrong and she should repent.

                              If she seems to get it, then :insha: things will fall back in place.
                              If not, then lock her inside the house. No, I'm serious, though, I don't know what else they can do to prevent her from doing it again.
                              I don't think marriage would be good, since it would be forced at this point.

                              It's complicated.

                              May Allah never test us like this.

                              Originally posted by Safiya View Post
                              I can never understand how it somehow reclaims your family "honour", that makes no sense at all.
                              Was gonna say the exact same thing.

                              How will that even give one peace of mind thinking that they just killed their family member?
                              It's making things worse, really.

                              Originally posted by loonietoonie View Post
                              I think they think they're amputating an irreparable diseased limb and disconnecting it from the family.

                              "This never belonged to us" kind of mentality.
                              It's only an illusion at best. The truth is still that she was the daughter or sister or whatever, of the family.

                              It's like saying, "I treat my female friends like sisters, I even call them sis." That doesn't mean anything. It won't make her your sister, and similarly killing someone doesn't end your relationship to them.
                              Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                              "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                              - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

                              Comment

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