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The Beard Thread

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Outsider
    Interesting observations about the beard! But what about hair in armpits? Does Raafi or someone equally knowledgeable have the rules for them?
    Pubic hair should be cut(armpits included). As for the hair, well dunno but I haven't had a hair cut in two years!


    • #32

      boy how this thread has changed since i have been here last

      hadiths are not written by scholars, hadiths are statements by the prophets companions who saw everything he did and related what he did to those around him, thus, when you hear a hadith, its as if you were there with the prophet

      so if you disobey the hadiths now,that means you would not have followed the prophet in his lifetime

      scholars are those who study the hadiths and render decisions based upon the quran and hadith, the more the scholar can provide proofs from the quran and sunnah, the better the scholar

      if he is just educated, but renders opinions against quran and sunnah, he is not to be followed

      Allahu Musta-an

      Usamah bin Laden is one who has struggled against the oppression of muslims, to this day i cant say whether he had any part in this, however, i have a muslim who denied any involvement vs a kafir who accuses, the choice is clear to me, and whether he did it or not, nothing justifies americans wholesale bombing of an entire country

      Raven, you should accept islam immediately, so that when death comes (and that could be today) you will have at least witnessed to your Lord that you recognize His Oneness, as opposed to other religions who dont, and you cant make up your own way of life since Allah has left us the Quran as our guidance
      .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
      نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
      دولة الإسلامية باقية


      • #33

        I'm going to thank you for the invitation, but I don't feel that Islam is right for me. I would have to describe myself as agnostic, and I don't think that will ever change. I still want to learn about various religions of the world, and who knows....maybe I'll pick one that I think is best for me.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Raven

          I'm going to thank you for the invitation, but I don't feel that Islam is right for me. I would have to describe myself as agnostic, and I don't think that will ever change. I still want to learn about various religions of the world, and who knows....maybe I'll pick one that I think is best for me.

          read the story of noah's son in the quran

          he too, denied what was presented to him and thought he could do his own thing
          .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
          نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
          دولة الإسلامية باقية


          • #35
            I've heard that story through my Catholic background. I actually went to Sunday school & stuff as a child. In my more recent years, I just thought a lot of it didn't make sense.

            Not a bad example to think about, but people need to follow what's in their heart, imho.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Sultan

              Pubic hair should be cut(armpits included). As for the hair, well dunno but I haven't had a hair cut in two years!
              Sultan, thanks for the answer. Are you even luckier than I am, in other words you're are so bald that you don't even need a barber? I am only partly bald, but I can comfort myself by the fact that I need less shampoo.

              Seriously speaking, it's quite strange why such regulations were given in the Quran. One would think that all parts growing hair are equal. On the other hand, I just learned that Allah treated eyesight differently from the other senses.
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              • #37
                Originally posted by Outsider
                Seriously speaking, it's quite strange why such regulations were given in the Quran.
                LOL, your knowledge of Islam is hopeless! Such regulations are not given in the Qur'an, they are in Hadith.

                And for the third time, can you read the Qur'an please???
                respect refugees


                • #38
                  Originally posted by baba
                  LOL, your knowledge of Islam is hopeless! Such regulations are not given in the Qur'an, they are in Hadith.

                  And for the third time, can you read the Qur'an please???
                  Baba, yes I have a Qur'an at home, the one compiled by Dr. M. M. Khan and Dr. M. T. Al-Hilali.

                  It's an interesting book explaining how people lived hundreds of years ago. Of course, to a non-Muslim it looks quite meaningless and very heavy to read. (No offence!)

                  I also have a few Bibles, I had the Mormons' book, I've had some Indian book... I don't even remember the religion.

                  Have you got any comparative books, apart from the Quran? What do you think of other beliefs?
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                  • #39
                    Outsider, dont think you're asking me, but never mind!
                    Did you read my post on'why are ht s hated so much'. I went of fthe topic as usual, lol, and explained why I converted and my personal view of other religions. My dad was brought up as a Mormon, but was not happy and switched to the Church of England. He took me to church, and by the time I was a teenager we agreed that we didnt understand much of the Christian religion. Its funny, but even then he would tell me that he couldnt understand why we would need to bypass 'others', to get to God. He particularly disputed the Roman Catholic concept of asking or even paying a priest to forgive your sins.
                    I had a the childrens version of the Book of Mormon as a small child, I loved to read, but also loved the pictures. Jesus(pbuh), was my favourite character. I read over and over again the story of him being tempted by the devil to jump of the mountain, to see if he would fly. To me Jesus(pbuh) was a kind man, a human who the devil tested. But i couldnt understand why God couldnt just destroy the devil. Also Joseph Smith the Mormon Prophet, didnt match up to Jesus(pbuh) my hero.
                    When dad decided he want to try Christianity, I remember feeling excited about going to Sunday school, and learning more about Jesus. But when they spoke of him being the son of God and 'God' on earth, I didnt really understand. Why didnt God help his son. And how could my hero, who was a human like me, have created all I saw around me. Maybe my thoughts were slightly more childish, but thats how I remember feeling.
                    When I first read about Islam, I was 16, and I felt something immediately. Islam confirmed all the stories I read about God's messengers, as a child, except there were no holes in these stories And Jesus, to my delight, was human. I read how the Shaitaan was created by God, and was once so good he was allowed to pray alongside the angels. But when he was asked to bow to Adam, and he didnt out of pride, God gave him the chance to repent by offering him one wish. Instead of choosing to be forgiven, he chose to live to the Day of Judgement, and swore to take the majority of mankind to hell with him. God (Allah) gave us the free will to choose, and told Shaitaan that those who were true believers would never follow him.
                    This to me was a clear explanation to many of my questions. And Jesus was a believer, a messenger from Allah. And Muhammad,(pbuh) the kindest of men completed that message. As a child I dressed as Jesus's mother Mary many times, in a blue shawl. So wearing a scarf seemed so good and righteous. I was the only one at college to do so.
                    I love Islam. It has has explanations for all aspects of life. And if you do not know the answer to a question yourself, there is alays someone who does. Simple answers for sometimes complex questions. Ive been a Muslim(one who surrenders to Allah), for the 8 most happy and content years of my life, despite the hardships ive faced.
                    Back to the SUBJECT AT HAND. have you noticed in illustrations that run alongside Christian scriptures, All the Prophets, and Pious men had BEARDS?
                    Your little sister in humanity, Rukaya
                    If I posted my replies as seperate threads, maybe that would be better. COULD THE ADMIN HELP WITH SOME OF THEM???!!!!!!JAzakullah LOL
                    Outsider, try reading Muhammad marmaduke PIckthalls translation of th Quraan, or Yusuf Ali's Theyre much simpler. I think yours may be a critics Translation.
                    Last edited by Ruqayyah; 31-05-02, 03:21 PM.
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                    • #40
                      Rukaya, a long story, but interesting experiences!

                      I think you have been inundated with religion in your childhood! Having lived in England, I know that there are fewer churches than they have in the United States. I once lived in Hinsdale, a village of some 17.000 people, just west of Chicago and there were 10-15 churches, one for every denomination. I just checked the net and now there are about 20 churches...

                      Although I've lived in a Christian home and, a bit like you, admired photographs in a huge pictorial Bible printed in the 20s, I've wanted to know something about other religions, too. Just like I'm doing now. And there are so many religions left...

                      I'm glad that you've found one that suits you now. Never stop excluding other religions though. All combined might make an ideal one!
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                      • #41
                        dang Outsider, I grew up in a town of 3000 and we had over 20 churches!! we were actually in the book of records for most churches per capita. just in case you ask why so many, its a town made up of immigrants. many many many faiths all living and working together.


                        • #42
                          Shaving the beard... Haram

                          Shaving The Beard: A Modern Effeminacy
                          Abu`Abdillah Muhammad al-Jibaly, Al-Quran Was-Sunnah Society
                          The beard (Arabic: liyah) is defined as the hair which grows on the cheeks and the jaws (ex., review: al-Q m s al-Muh t by al-Fayrazabad ). It includes the hair of the temples, the growth underneath the lower lip, the hair of the chin, and the hair that grows on the lower side of the jaws.

                          The Islamic Ruling Concerning Beards
                          Growing the beard is a wajib (mandatory) for all males who are capable of doing so. This has ample evidence in the Sunnah (as will be shown below) and is the unanimous opinion of the ulamaa of Islam. One should not be misled by the neglect to this sunnah by a few contemporary shaykhs, and by their providing shaky fatwas to support their action. By doing that they make people follow them into the wrong way, when the Messenger (S) said: He who starts a good sunnah (way) will be rewarded for it, in addition to receiving rewards equal to the rewards of those who follow him into it. Whereas he who starts a bad sunnah will be burdened with it, in addition to receiving burdens equal to the burdens of those who follow him into it. [Muslim]
                          And he said: Allah does not pull the knowledge abruptly from the hearts of people, but he takes away the knowledge by taking [the lives of] the `ulamaa (true scholars). When no `ulamaa are left, people will take ignorant persons for leaders. Those will give them fatwa (religious verdicts) without knowledge. By doing this, they will stray and lead others astray as well. [Al-Bukhari]


                          A List of Violations
                          Shaving the beard results in a series of Islamic violations, as is obvious from Allah's Book and His Messenger's Sunnah. The following is a list (not necessarily comprehensive) of such violations:
                          a. A Disobedience to Allah (T)
                          Shaving the beard is a disobedience to Allah (T). The ruler of Yemen, appointed by the Persian emperor Kisraa, sent two envoys to the Messenger (S) to summon him. When they came into his presence, he noticed that they had shaved their beards and grew their moustaches. He hated to look at them (because of their odd appearance) and he said: Woe be to you, who told you to do so? They replied: "Our lord! (referring to Kisraa.)" The Messenger (S) then said:
                          But my Lord, may He be exalted and glorified, has commanded me to leave alone my beard and to trim my moustache. [Recorded by Ibn Jar r a-abar , and judged to be Hasan (good) by al-Albani.]

                          b. A Disobedience To the Messenger (S)
                          Shaving the beard is a disobedience to the Messenger (S). In many hadiths, the Messenger (S) commanded men to leave alone their beards. These different hadiths have a similar meaning:

                          Trim the moustache and save the beard. [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]

                          Obeying the Messenger (S) in that is equivalent to obeying Allah (T) who said (what means):

                          He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah. [An-Nisaa 4:80]

                          c. A Deviation from the Appearance and Guidance of the Messenger (S)
                          Shaving the beard is a deviation from the appearance and guidance of the Messenger (S). The Messenger (S) used to have a large beard [Muslim]. One should strive to imitate him (S) in his practices, as Allah (T) said (what means):In the Messenger of Allah is a good example for you to follow. [Al-Ahzab 33:21]

                          And the Messenger (S) said: Verily, the best guidance is Muhammad's guidance. [Muslim]

                          d. A Deviation from the Way of Believers
                          Shaving the beard is a deviation from the way of believers. All the prophets (S), the sahbah (Prophet's companions), the great `ulamaa, and the righteous early Muslims of this Ummah (Nation) grew their beards. There is no report of a single one of them ever shaving his beard. Thus, this is their way, and Allah (T) says (in the meaning):

                          Whoever disobeys the Messenger after guidance has been clarified to him, and follows other than the path of the believers, We shall give to him what he deserves and broil him in hell, which is the worst abode. [An-Nisaa 4:115]

                          e. An Imitation of the Disbelievers
                          Shaving the beard is an imitation of the disbelievers. This has been emphasized in several hadiths of the Prophet (S). For example:

                          Cut the moustaches and grow your beards. Be different from the Magians (followers of a religion that dominated in Persia). [Muslim]

                          Cut your moustaches and leave your beards alone. Be different from the people of the scripture. [Muslim]

                          Be different from the Mushrikin (those who worship other than Allah (T)); trim your moustaches and save your beards. [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]

                          We have been commanded to be different and distinct from the disbelievers, as in surat ul-Fatihah. Also, Allah (T) said (what means):

                          Follow not the whims of those who have no knowledge (of Islam). [Al-Jathiyah 45:18]

                          And His Messenger (S) said: Whoever imitates a people is but one of them. [Recorded by Abu Dawud, and judged to be authentic by al-Albani]

                          f. Changing Allah's Creation without Permission
                          The Messenger (S) declared that the women who change what Allah (T) has created (such as removing the hair from their faces or filing their teeth or tattooing their bodies) seeking by that to improve their appearance, are accursed by Allah (T). [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]

                          The hadith mentioned women in particular because they normally seek to beautify themselves more than men. But the warning surely applies to both sexes, because the condition for the curse is declared, and thus the curse applies to anyone who satisfies such condition.

                          Shaving the beard falls under this warning, as it is much worse than the Nam (removal of facial hair) practiced by some women. It involves obeying Satan who said:

                          And I shall tempt them until they change what Allah has created. [An-Nisaa 4:119]

                          g. An Imitation of Women
                          The beard is a major distinction between men and women. Shaving it removes this distinction, and is thus a means of imitating women. The Messenger (S) said:

                          Allah curses those men who imitate the women, and He curses those women who imitate the men. [Al-Bukhari]

                          h. Shaving the Beard Contradicts the Pure Fitrah (Nature)
                          Allah's Messenger (S) mentioned ten qualities as indicative of a good, clean nature [Muslim]. Two of these qualities are to trim the moustaches and to grow the beard.

                          The Messenger (S) also tells that every child is born with a clean, pure fitrah, which later may get deformed by the influence of the environment and the up-bringing. [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

                          In the footsteps of the disbelievers, many Muslims' fitrah is now, unfortunately, so much deformed that they seem to find a clean-shaven man more handsome and masculine than one with a beard - exactly the opposite of what the Messenger (S) declared in the above hadith.

                          This fitrah never changes with time: Allah (T) said (what means):

                          The pure nature according to which Allah has created people. There is no change in Allah's creation. [Ar-Room 30:30]

                          For shaving their beards, some men give the strange excuse that their wives prefer them without one! As if their purpose in this life is to follow the deformed inclinations of their wives instead of the clear-cut commands of Allah (T) and His Messenger (S)!

                          Others claim that growing their beards results in an irritability and scratching. This cannot result from abiding by the pure fitrah, but would result (if true) from neglect of the proper cleaning and washing with wudu as instructed in the Sunnah.


                          What the `Ulamaa and Imams Say
                          All the `ulamaa of as-Salaf u- li, including the Four Imams, agreed that shaving the beard is haram (prohibited). They considered shaving it an impermissible mutilation, as has been reported about Umar bin Abdil-Aziz. They used to consider the person who shaved his beard effeminate. Many of them would not accept his witness or allow him to lead the prayers.
                          May Allah (T) guide us to abide by His Deen, and to adhere to His Messenger's Sunnah, and to be among those whom he blessed in both lives.

                          .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                          نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                          دولة الإسلامية باقية


                          • #43
                            the beard - for those who shave - think about it

                            Got this from another forum:

                            By Allah_Knows (Allah_Knows) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 08:47 am: Edit


                            I was talking to a brother and he related an incident to me, which subhannallah was inspiring. It is proof that however hard the kuffar try to humiliate the mujahideen and the jihad, they will only create the opposite effect. And that the mujahideen's effort NEVER goes to waste.

                            It was one morning that the brother was getting ready for work as per routine. He was listening to the radio, whilst he was in the washroom - shaving. The radio broadcaster was discussing the issue of the brothers in camp X-ray. It was said that another few 100 have been transferred to Cuba from Afghanistan. It then went on to say how their heads and BEARDS had been shaved...... At this point the brother stopped shaving and thought......(quite rare for Muslims today) Look how the kuffar try and humiliate the Muslims, how they shave their heads and beards, and look at me! I am humiliating myself, they dont even need to do anything. alhumdulillah since that day the brother has grown a beard and gone to work everyday. And whats more he has increased in his love for Islam

                            The moral of the story is, dont humiliate yourself by abandoning the Sunnah. AND see how the difficulty and the struggle of the mujahideen benefits the Ummah. Allah will surely not waste the rewards of the believers. May Allah swt allow us to walk this path and be firm.

                            Last edited by Consider; 02-08-02, 01:49 PM.
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                            • #44
                              Subhanallah very true indeed
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                              • #45
                                I believe that the reason the heads and beards were shaved was to control lice - a health issue, not to humiliate them.
                                "A certain heathen came to Shammai and said to him, "Make me a proselyte, on condition that you teach me the whole Torah in the time I can stand on one foot." Thereupon he repulsed him with the rod which was in his hand. When he went to Hillel, Hillel said to him, 'What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor: that is the whole Torah; all the rest of it is commentary; go and learn." (Talmud, Shabbat 31a)