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  • #91
    Re: would you help . . .

    Originally posted by Tread Softly View Post
    If you mean a person born gay can't have been born into a muslim family, or if you mean a muslim can't develop gay feelings, then you're wrong.

    If you mean a muslim family produce a gay child then he is not considered a muslim, or if a muslim develops gay feelings then he is not considered a muslim, then you may be right.
    people are not "born gay" that it not within the fitrah of people - the shaytaan misleads people hence they get these ideas.
    82. Verily, when He intends a thing, His Command is, "be", and it is! 83. So glory to Him in Whose hands is the dominion of all things: and to Him will you be all brought back. Quran surah 36: Ya-sin

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    • #92
      Re: would you help . . .

      Yes I would, and every Muslim should. That's a kind of Dawah.
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      • #93
        Re: would you help . . .

        Originally posted by Tread Softly View Post
        If you mean a person born gay can't have been born into a muslim family, or if you mean a muslim can't develop gay feelings, then you're wrong.

        If you mean a muslim family produce a gay child then he is not considered a muslim, or if a muslim develops gay feelings then he is not considered a muslim, then you may be right.
        Having feelings of this nature, doesn't make you gay...the action is what is a sin for us and once you act on those feelings, then it's haram.
        مَّن ذَا الَّذِي يُقْرِضُ اللّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا فَيُضَاعِفَهُ لَهُ أَضْعَافًا كَثِيرَةً وَاللّهُ يَقْبِضُ وَيَبْسُطُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ

        "Who is he that will loan to Allah a beautiful loan, which Allah will double unto his credit and multiply many times?
        It is Allah that giveth (you) Want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return."
        Surah al-Baqarah
        [2:245]

        .:.
        .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
        Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

        .:.
        ...said the spider to the fly...

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        • #94
          Re: would you help . . .

          Your not born gay, you choose to be gay! If it was a helpless illness then it wouldn't be sin! But it is a sin and that is proof that being gay is done by choice

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          • #95
            Re: would you help . . .

            Originally posted by Sis_Asiya View Post
            say a kuffar, a gay/lesbian person, ect?

            was having a conversation with a fellow muslimah and we were talking about prejudices and so i asked well would you help a gay person? and she replied almost on autopilot with a resounding "no", why is that though?

            I totally agree that being a kafir, gay ect is wrong and a perversion - thats not the issue here.

            Issue is that as muslims because Alhamduillah we have been shown the right path the true path, should we not help a fellow human just for the reason that our religion tells us to help others, that in our Prophet :saw: we have the best of examples in

            relation to kindness?

            what do you think?

            depends what U mean by help them....
            In what way?
            I have met gay people or Kufar....
            I treat them with respect as they are people... however I do not allow a tight bond with them.
            Kufar yes I have in some ways a friendship but not with a gay person.
            If u mean help them see sense yes that possible in allowing ur viewpoints...
            But as for Gay people... theres a major difference between a kufar who lives in some ways ok, in comparison to a gay person.
            simplist is live ur help... enough muslims 2 help, u dnt need 2 help others...
            Be kind... show mercy... love....
            but dnt get all close and stuff.
            BELLA:o

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            • #96
              Re: would you help . . .

              Originally posted by !Mujahidah! View Post
              Your not born gay, you choose to be gay! If it was a helpless illness then it wouldn't be sin! But it is a sin and that is proof that being gay is done by choice
              You haven't spoken to gay people much huh? I know loads, and not a single one of them thinks he chose to be gay. Anecdotal evidence like this is not sufficient to say with certainty that you are born gay, but this is an area that is being researched. If they find proper evidence that you are born gay, then this would pose an interesting dilemma for religious people: like you say, if it is a "helpless illness" then it wouldn't be sin.

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              • #97
                Re: would you help . . .

                Originally posted by Tread Softly View Post
                You haven't spoken to gay people much huh? I know loads, and not a single one of them thinks he chose to be gay. Anecdotal evidence like this is not sufficient to say with certainty that you are born gay, but this is an area that is being researched. If they find proper evidence that you are born gay, then this would pose an interesting dilemma for religious people: like you say, if it is a "helpless illness" then it wouldn't be sin.
                You listen to a gay people too much. Your allowing them to justify to you what ever feelings they have. Typical isnt it? I suppose if i go and shoot somebody and say i couldn't help it because i was born this way, i had no choice in the matter-another helpless illness right? Maybe im schizo? you're going to swallow it?
                Oh it would be no dilemma because we follow islam and islam has been around longer and is wayyyy stronger than abit of minor research done in a lab! Remember, we believe in the qur'aan as the word of Allah our lord and creator! If he created us he knows more about us than anyone can know about us including ourselves- remember he is our CREATOR He would not ban something that cannot be helped because that would mean injustice from our lord right? I DONT think so! Religion will remain the same! Gay people will always be committing sin for us muslims, we'll stick by that view until the end of time!

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                • #98
                  Re: would you help . . .

                  Originally posted by Tread Softly View Post
                  not a single one of them thinks he chose to be gay.
                  Are you then saying gays are forced to have sex unwillingly ?
                  Next you'll be making excuses for adultery, and pedophilia.

                  As for helping, yes they need all the help they can get.
                  As for enabling definitely NO !
                  Those that partake/promote gay acts will not receive any respect from me, just as those that partake in adultery etc.
                  Last edited by Leena_Cnd; 08-02-10, 09:58 AM.
                  "When authority is given to those who do not deserve it,
                  wait for the Day of Judgment."



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                  • #99
                    Re: would you help . . .

                    a human is a human, show them mercy and Allah swt will show you mercy.

                    Comment


                    • Re: would you help . . .

                      Originally posted by advertisement View Post
                      1) What would you call it if the evidence for something is so strong without the weight of any possiblity of a doubt yet I "simply don't believe it?"

                      2)Incomplete knowledge is more harmful than not knowing something. I've experienced this myself where I would think that scholars are "strict" but when I open my heart and discuss issues with them more truthfully and honestly, I come to see that they even agree with me on alot of my ideas which I thought were against the teachings of Islam.

                      3) I'm all ears (or eyes).
                      1) it's mainly a figure of speech. Our language is an imperfect tool : language cannot describe reality in a perfect way. If you have no doubts about something, to all practical effects it can be said that you believe in it.

                      2)there is no such thing as "perfect knowledge", all knowledge is incomplete. Your knowledge starts somewhere, and then goes on from that. Who can say he knows perfectly the Quran, or simply the Estonian language?

                      3)as I said, it would take hours and hours to discuss my approach to religion and Islam and why I don' t believe in any sort of divine message. Who has that sort of time? most people have to work for a living, and don't have that sort of leisure. I'm one of them

                      Take care

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                      • Re: would you help . . .

                        Originally posted by Leena_Cnd View Post

                        Are you then saying gays are forced to have sex unwillingly ?
                        You seem to be hold the mistaken view that being gay is simply about having sex with members of the same gender. It is not.

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                        • Re: would you help . . .

                          Originally posted by Tread Softly View Post
                          You seem to be hold the mistaken view that being gay is simply about having sex with members of the same gender. It is not.
                          The sin comes from the act. If they don't act on their feelings and try their best to be a righteous Muslim, then they are still alhamdulillah a good person. They'll be rewarded for not acting on their desires and going back to Allah. Once they act on their desire and openly admit to it and say there is nothing wrong with being gay, having a lover, etc... and still be a Muslim, then you're committing a lot of majors sins and you'll have to repent and make a lot of sincere tawbah.
                          مَّن ذَا الَّذِي يُقْرِضُ اللّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا فَيُضَاعِفَهُ لَهُ أَضْعَافًا كَثِيرَةً وَاللّهُ يَقْبِضُ وَيَبْسُطُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ

                          "Who is he that will loan to Allah a beautiful loan, which Allah will double unto his credit and multiply many times?
                          It is Allah that giveth (you) Want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return."
                          Surah al-Baqarah
                          [2:245]

                          .:.
                          .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
                          Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

                          .:.
                          ...said the spider to the fly...

                          Comment


                          • Re: would you help . . .

                            I believe no one is born gay, since we are all born perfect with a natural belief in Allah. However, if someone says they were "born" gay, or that they didn't "choose" to be gay, I think they are telling the truth, because their inclination is probably very natural for them so it seems to them like they were born that way. And I think Allah is the one that made their nature that way, as one of the many ways disbelievers are misguided. I should be clear, that this is not from any daleel or scholar, but it is my own conclusion from the following verses of the Qur'an:

                            7:179 We created many of the jinn and mankind for Hell. They have hearts they do not understand with. They have eyes they do not see with. They have ears they do not hear with. Such people are like cattle. No, they are even worse! They are the unaware.

                            45:23 Hast thou seen him who maketh his desire his god, and Allah sendeth him astray purposely, and sealeth up his hearing and his heart, and setteth on his sight a covering? Then who will lead him after Allah (hath condemned him)? Will ye not then heed?

                            27:4 As to those who believe not in the Hereafter, We have made their deeds pleasing in their eyes; and so they wander about in distraction.

                            35:8 Is he, whose evil deed is made fair-seeming to him so much so that he considers it good? Now surely Allah sendeth astray whom He pleases and guideth aright whom He pleases, so let not your soul waste away in grief for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do!


                            Allah knows our hearts, and the disbelievers think they are doing nothing wrong when really they are making things worse for themselves. I could be wrong, and if I am please correct me and may Allah forgive me for speaking incorrectly, but again this is my own conclusion from the above verses which I think are quite logical.

                            But regardless, this does not mean that a gay person is any less deserving of our kindness than any other kind of disbeliever. As I said before, it is very good dawah to represent the kindness and generosity of Islam, so inshaAllah I would not hesitate to help anyone regardless of their beliefs or actions, so long as my helping them did not involve anything haraam.

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