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Sufi Love Discussion Thread

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  • #31
    Re: Sufi Love

    Originally posted by Salman Al-Farsi View Post
    Brother don't go all theological on me, I am a simple person who understands things in a simplistic way. But you are a knowledgeable brother Mash'Allah, so let me ask if I may. Is stealing a good action or bad? A lay person like me would say its a bad action because stealing is haram. However, a knowledgeable person like yourself should give a more educated, might I add, theo-Islamically educated answer which is that stealing is not good or bad since objects do not have attributes of khair and sharr, however what makes it Hasan or Qabhee is what occurs with it. Some may consider invasion of lands as illegal occupation, others may consider it liberation of land. Some may consider conquering lands from their owners and kings as Jihad fi Sabilillah others may consider it stealing land. But let's not get bogged down in non-technical terminologies and learn to pay attention to the Mafhum, if you don't understand ask those who do, but don't go charging great men and women who were champions of Ahlasunnah with heresay due to our own weakness in knowledge, although an expert opinion would carry much weight. Allah Knows best.
    You? a layman? :rotfl:

    Is that according to the usool you done? My usool states that actions are good and bad, therefore we can have things which are "hasanun li nafsihi qabeehun li ghayrihi", if things weren't inherently good and bad then it wouldn't be said that such a thing is hasan li nafsihi.

    You might have noticed earlier that i said the fault lies most likely in the translation and not in the people who are quoted to have said it.

    Is the word "steal" sareeh or not? as far as my understanding goes it is sareeh, or atleast zaahiran it is kufr, so can you tell me if the word 'steal' has any good meanings? :scratch:



    "The `Aalim knows who is a Jaahil, because he used to be a Jaahil before. But the Jaahil does not know who is an `Aalim, because he was never an `Aalim before."


    Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullaah in Majmoo`ul Fataawaa.


    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Sufi Love

      yes, in english language sir.

      Stealing someone's heart!
      "The objective behind Shari'ah is to liberate individuals from his desires in order to be a true Abd (slave) of Allah and that is the legitimate Maslaha... Violating the Shari'ah under the pretext of following Maqasid al-Shari'ah is like the one who cares about the spirit without the body and since the body without the spirit is useless therefore the spirit without the body is useless too." ~ Imam Shatibi - The greatest intellectual founder of Maqasid al-Shari'ah

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Sufi Love

        Originally posted by Salman Al-Farsi View Post
        yes, in english language sir.

        Stealing someone's heart!
        Hmmmmm you're right, i guess i was focusing on the arabic meaning and not the english.

        So if a person says as is mentioned in that quote, and he means the meaning that you mean then he won't become a kaafir, but if he intended the meaning of stealing/robbery then he would become a kaafir.

        But such words should not be used to begin with, then such problems wouldn't arise.



        "The `Aalim knows who is a Jaahil, because he used to be a Jaahil before. But the Jaahil does not know who is an `Aalim, because he was never an `Aalim before."


        Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullaah in Majmoo`ul Fataawaa.


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        • #34
          Re: Sufi Love

          Originally posted by Abu Mus'ab View Post
          Hmmmmm you're right, i guess i was focusing on the arabic meaning and not the english.

          So if a person says as is mentioned in that quote, and he means the meaning that you mean then he won't become a kaafir, but if he intended the meaning of stealing/robbery then he would become a kaafir.

          But such words should not be used to begin with, then such problems wouldn't arise.
          Perhaps bro! the problem is with English language...its just not descriptive enough.
          "The objective behind Shari'ah is to liberate individuals from his desires in order to be a true Abd (slave) of Allah and that is the legitimate Maslaha... Violating the Shari'ah under the pretext of following Maqasid al-Shari'ah is like the one who cares about the spirit without the body and since the body without the spirit is useless therefore the spirit without the body is useless too." ~ Imam Shatibi - The greatest intellectual founder of Maqasid al-Shari'ah

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Sufi Love

            Are you allowed to steal someones heart :scratch:

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Sufi Love

              Not sure, but I heard kidneys are selling like hot cakes on the black market.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Sufi Love

                Originally posted by Fais View Post
                Are you allowed to steal someones heart :scratch:
                only if you follow soufi path of love.
                "The objective behind Shari'ah is to liberate individuals from his desires in order to be a true Abd (slave) of Allah and that is the legitimate Maslaha... Violating the Shari'ah under the pretext of following Maqasid al-Shari'ah is like the one who cares about the spirit without the body and since the body without the spirit is useless therefore the spirit without the body is useless too." ~ Imam Shatibi - The greatest intellectual founder of Maqasid al-Shari'ah

                Comment


                • #38
                  Wholeheartedly.....

                  Originally posted by Fais View Post
                  Are you allowed to steal someones heart :scratch:
                  - What if they offer it to you?
                  - Would it be 'stealing' if you borrow it without their permission?

                  - If someone says they love you for Allah's sake with all their heart in front of witnesses- and you then get out a knife determined to cut and keep the heart that is now yours due to this verbal agreement would it be wrong?
                  - Would the witnesses be in error for helping you take your haadiyah?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Sufi Love

                    Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                    Not sure, but I heard kidneys are selling like hot cakes on the black market.
                    :rotfl:



                    "The `Aalim knows who is a Jaahil, because he used to be a Jaahil before. But the Jaahil does not know who is an `Aalim, because he was never an `Aalim before."


                    Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullaah in Majmoo`ul Fataawaa.


                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Wholeheartedly.....

                      Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                      Not sure, but I heard kidneys are selling like hot cakes on the black market.
                      :rotfl: ... Yea i read some dude cut his wifes kidney out and sold it on the black market. :rotfl: ... :scratch:

                      Originally posted by Salman Al-Farsi View Post
                      only if you follow soufi path of love.
                      And how do you do that? .. Cant i just follow you :o ...

                      Originally posted by WH View Post
                      - What if they offer it to you?
                      - Would it be 'stealing' if you borrow it without their permission?

                      - If someone says they love you for Allah's sake with all their heart in front of witnesses- and you then get out a knife determined to cut and keep the heart that is now yours due to this verbal agreement would it be wrong?
                      - Would the witnesses be in error for helping you take your haadiyah?
                      Brother, you have indeed raised some interesting and valid questions.

                      None of which i have the answers too.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Wholeheartedly.....

                        Originally posted by WH View Post
                        - What if they offer it to you?
                        - Would it be 'stealing' if you borrow it without their permission?

                        - If someone says they love you for Allah's sake with all their heart in front of witnesses- and you then get out a knife determined to cut and keep the heart that is now yours due to this verbal agreement would it be wrong?
                        - Would the witnesses be in error for helping you take your haadiyah?
                        OMG that is so deep.
                        "The objective behind Shari'ah is to liberate individuals from his desires in order to be a true Abd (slave) of Allah and that is the legitimate Maslaha... Violating the Shari'ah under the pretext of following Maqasid al-Shari'ah is like the one who cares about the spirit without the body and since the body without the spirit is useless therefore the spirit without the body is useless too." ~ Imam Shatibi - The greatest intellectual founder of Maqasid al-Shari'ah

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Indeed.....

                          Originally posted by Fais View Post
                          Brother, you have indeed raised some interesting and valid questions.

                          None of which i have the answers too.
                          Of course you don't have the answers- these are types of questions that have continued to plague the minds of the men from among the leading thinkers for centuries.
                          Originally posted by Salman Al-Farsi View Post
                          OMG that is so deep.
                          I feel myself being raised to heighten plains beyond.

                          Remember this day well, the day when I elevated myself above all of you through immersing myself in contemplation and cosmologic psychokinetic numerology par excellence.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Indeed.....

                            Salman, I say we go for the hattrick right now. What say you?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Sufi Love

                              Originally posted by Fais View Post
                              Are you allowed to steal someones heart :scratch:
                              People have turned jovial after you posted that and seem to have forgotten the seriousness of the issue.

                              Actually steal someone's heart is an idiom in English language which means 'to capture someone's affections; to cause someone to fall in love with oneself.'


                              In what way can one compare this idiom with the word steal?
                              Worship only the CREATOR, HE is One and HE is the SUSTAINER of the Universe. Do not worship any of HIS creations nor through HIS creations

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Sufi Love

                                Originally posted by Salman Al-Farsi View Post
                                Perhaps bro! the problem is with English language...its just not descriptive enough.
                                naach na aaye...aangan tedhaa.
                                Thats an Urdu saying
                                ?

                                Originally posted by Salman Al-Farsi View Post
                                .....Stealing someone's heart!........
                                That idiom has diverted the attention from the main issue.
                                Last edited by aboosait; 22-05-09, 03:39 PM.
                                Worship only the CREATOR, HE is One and HE is the SUSTAINER of the Universe. Do not worship any of HIS creations nor through HIS creations

                                Comment

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