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Do you think the veil alienates women in a western society ?

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  • Do you think the veil alienates women in a western society ?

    I just want opinions to the question asked, i don't want fatwas or why women wear it we know that i just want to know what you think about this issue.
    ‎"Listen with the ears of tolerance. See through the eyes of compassion. Speak with the language of love."
    Rumi RahimuAllah.

  • #2
    Re: Do you think the veil alienates women in a western society ?

    Originally posted by Golden_silence View Post
    I just want opinions to the question asked, i don't want fatwas or why women wear it we know that i just want to know what you think about this issue.
    are you asking the Kuffar or the Muslims?
    http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

    "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

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    • #3
      Re: Do you think the veil alienates women in a western society ?

      I don't think it alienates women....though it does cause a barrier because it cannot be argued that non muslims feel uncomfortable and nervous when speaking to a veiled sister.

      BUT....in a sense it is also VERY beneficial. If 'alienating' means that no freaky guy has the guts to speak to you because you're unnaproachable.....then I think wearing the niqab is awesome! It's a barrier between you and those who would exploite you. It sends such a clear message to the outside world – ‘I do not want to be bothered and do not approach me’ – as a result men cannot help but change the way they relate to women who wear niqab. So in that sense...yes it does 'alienate' them in a gooood way!

      I thought the hijab was enough to send out that message but for some reason it isn't.
      Give me a clear vision, that I may know where to stand and what to stand for - because unless I stand for something, I will fall for anything.

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      • #4
        Re: Do you think the veil alienates women in a western society ?

        Originally posted by Golden_silence View Post
        I just want opinions to the question asked, i don't want fatwas or why women wear it we know that i just want to know what you think about this issue.
        Yea of course. But it also prevents a lot of men from speaking to her. It's very hard for someone to speak to another without seeing there face, although you can say people talk on the phone, chat, etc. and that wouldn't be a problem for her, but when it comes to meeting in person, it is kinda hard, and she will be judged by some. By Muslims she won't be bothered the least bit, possibly in some cases. By non-Muslims she won't be treated as she would be if she weren't, but in a place where niqabi's are not something out of the ordinary, then she would have no problem fitting in. Therefore if all Muslim women were niqabi's, it would take a long time, but eventually people would have no problem approaching with it.
        Last edited by Ta'aa; 11-02-09, 12:30 AM.

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        • #5
          Re: Do you think the veil alienates women in a western society ?

          it only does good for a woman. alienating kinda sounds like it carries a negative connotation to an extent. so if not being fully integrated into western society is wat u mean then thats a good thing. there isnt need for integration to that extent anyway.
          Screaming, But Will Never Be Heard

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          • #6
            Re: Do you think the veil alienates women in a western society ?

            Originally posted by RazielTemp View Post
            are you asking the Kuffar or the Muslims?
            i am asking anyone with an opinion

            That is true, but some people are afraid of the Niqab which causes fear of Islam further creating more biased opinions of Islam going by the Western view of course as Islam only makes up small % of populations so when they see this it further increases ignorance. Which of course is half the fault of the person at hand.

            Also there is a lot of harasment involed with the Niqab even in muslim countries

            and.. i thought the point of the Niqab was so that the woman could be seen as a person and not as an object you know appreciated for what's on the inside normal people (mostly ignorant of Islam) are afraid of talking to these women because of this. But it does not apply to everyone.

            Originally posted by nadiaS. View Post
            Yea of course. But it also prevents a lot of men from speaking to her. It's very hard for someone to speak to another without seeing there face, although you can say people talk on the phone, chat, etc. and that wouldn't be a problem for her, but when it comes to meeting in person, it is kinda hard, and she will be judged by some. By Muslims she won't be bothered the least bit, possibly in some cases. By non-Muslims she won't be treated as she would be if she weren't, but in a place where niqabi's are not something out of the ordinary, then she would have no problem fitting in. Therefore if all Muslim women were niqabi's, it would take a long time, but eventually people would have no problem approaching with it.
            Yes but given the current situation with the whole media/islamaphobic trend i don't think people want to know the people who wear a Niqab.

            Originally posted by GuCcI View Post
            it only does good for a woman. alienating kinda sounds like it carries a negative connotation to an extent. so if not being fully integrated into western society is wat u mean then thats a good thing. there isnt need for integration to that extent anyway.
            Alienation in society is a BAD thing segregation of people has always been seen as a bad thing in Islam. If you can't integrate then how will you spread the message of Islam ? get rid of the fear mongering Islamaphobes ?
            ‎"Listen with the ears of tolerance. See through the eyes of compassion. Speak with the language of love."
            Rumi RahimuAllah.

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            • #7
              Re: Do you think the veil alienates women in a western society ?

              The suburb we used to live in had so many niqaabi women it was such a usual sight to see them that the answer to the question had to be no. Infact in most of the city that is the case.

              The sisters moved around freely without any hindrance to their lifestyle .. except perhaps the common problem remains a place for sisters in niqaab to eat out with their families.. Even Muslim owned restaraunts and even Islamic funcitions, don't cater for the sister wearing niqaab

              Lectures that involve sisters at the back and brothers at the front are similar problems.. since the longer ones mean that niqaabed sisters have to remain in niqaab all day... whereas in segregated lecures this is not necessary.


              so in fact in that sense, any perceived problems can be from within the community .. as well as from within the west.
              Last edited by carol_au; 11-02-09, 01:22 AM.
              .
              http://jameelah61.wordpress.com/

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              • #8
                Re: Do you think the veil alienates women in a western society ?

                Originally posted by Golden_silence View Post
                Alienation in society is a BAD thing segregation of people has always been seen as a bad thing in Islam. If you can't integrate then how will you spread the message of Islam ? get rid of the fear mongering Islamaphobes ?
                i've been saying this for years, and yes islam is teaching segregation and not only w/ sexes but also w/ religions and types of people.

                if we as muslims do not want to be around or deal w/ the kuffar then how can we show and teach them islam if all we care to do is turn out backs to them?

                as for the veil, yes it is and issue but only for the women. if your in the west and choose to wear the veil dont expect to have it easy. this is a society based on who you are, if someone cannot see you they dont wanna talk to you. people want to know who their talking to because reading a person facial expressions makes it easier to go ahead with the convo, wether it be for a job, or almost anything.

                as for the men, i dont think the veil stops any man from saying anything. it actually attracts men more because it allows them to focus in on the beauty of the eyes.

                personally i dont care if my wife does or does not wear the veil. as long as her khimar and overgarment of some type i'm cool.

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                • #9
                  Re: Do you think the veil alienates women in a western society ?

                  Originally posted by Golden_silence View Post
                  I just want opinions to the question asked, i don't want fatwas or why women wear it we know that i just want to know what you think about this issue.
                  it can do but only because of the racism of others, not because of the nature of the veil.

                  I certainly do not feel alienated for wearing it here in Saudi Arabia...! If the veil itself was alienating.... then it would be the same everywhere. It's racist attitudes that are alienating people, and not just over the veil, but over anything that is percieved by the racists as making you different to them.
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                  • #10
                    Re: Do you think the veil alienates women in a western society ?

                    Originally posted by dhakiyya View Post
                    it can do but only because of the racism of others, not because of the nature of the veil.

                    I certainly do not feel alienated for wearing it here in Saudi Arabia...! If the veil itself was alienating.... then it would be the same everywhere. It's racist attitudes that are alienating people, and not just over the veil, but over anything that is percieved by the racists as making you different to them.
                    excellent point of view.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Do you think the veil alienates women in a western society ?

                      Originally posted by dhakiyya View Post
                      it can do but only because of the racism of others, not because of the nature of the veil.

                      I certainly do not feel alienated for wearing it here in Saudi Arabia...! If the veil itself was alienating.... then it would be the same everywhere. It's racist attitudes that are alienating people, and not just over the veil, but over anything that is percieved by the racists as making you different to them.

                      it's not racism in it's purest form it's just a fear of anything alien and foreign, it stems from ignorance which sometimes causes racism. Though i would not label it as racism. Saudi Arabia is a Islamic country and the Veil is a pre-Islamic covering which was used to keep sand out of the face and body It can't be alien to where it is from and a tradition kind of a logical fallacy and a red herring.

                      Originally posted by Muujahid View Post
                      i've been saying this for years, and yes islam is teaching segregation and not only w/ sexes but also w/ religions and types of people.

                      if we as muslims do not want to be around or deal w/ the kuffar then how can we show and teach them islam if all we care to do is turn out backs to them?

                      as for the veil, yes it is and issue but only for the women. if your in the west and choose to wear the veil dont expect to have it easy. this is a society based on who you are, if someone cannot see you they dont wanna talk to you. people want to know who their talking to because reading a person facial expressions makes it easier to go ahead with the convo, wether it be for a job, or almost anything.

                      as for the men, i dont think the veil stops any man from saying anything. it actually attracts men more because it allows them to focus in on the beauty of the eyes.

                      personally i dont care if my wife does or does not wear the veil. as long as her khimar and overgarment of some type i'm cool.
                      How does Islam teach segregation ? =\ remember When Islam came to the people they were MUCH more segregated than they are today. Islam abolished that.
                      ‎"Listen with the ears of tolerance. See through the eyes of compassion. Speak with the language of love."
                      Rumi RahimuAllah.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Do you think the veil alienates women in a western society ?

                        Not necessarily. However I do think it does make the sister stand out in a crowd when ironically the purpose of it is the opposite. Is veil the best idea in the west? IMHO no. It attracts too much attention.
                        " The issue in palestine will not be solved by the United States or any western country. It's not going to be solved by Dan Six Pack or Sally Soccer mom! " Anwar Al-Awlaki

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                        • #13
                          Re: Do you think the veil alienates women in a western society ?

                          Originally posted by GuCcI View Post
                          it only does good for a woman. alienating kinda sounds like it carries a negative connotation to an extent. so if not being fully integrated into western society is wat u mean then thats a good thing. there isnt need for integration to that extent anyway.
                          :salams I agree, and I also feel as if there is an expectation in the West to leave our Islam identities behind and fully integrate into society. I don't feel it's an integration problem, but rather the problem lies with the fact that in Western society it has always been an expectation for people to always have to leave their identities behind and become a ''Westerner'' of sorts. Is this really our fault?

                          We've seen the negativity of being integrated into Western society, ie. residential schools in Canada. They never expected them (natives) to keep their identity, but rather leave it all behind in order to become a ''Westerner''.

                          If a woman wears the veil, it is upon her to become apart of society and to do her part, just because she doesn't look approachable doesn't mean she's alienating herself. The expectation from the West is that she takes it off, plain and simple. And if a Muslim woman gives in, then it's her problem.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Do you think the veil alienates women in a western society ?

                            Originally posted by Golden_silence View Post
                            Alienation in society is a BAD thing segregation of people has always been seen as a bad thing in Islam. If you can't integrate then how will you spread the message of Islam ? get rid of the fear mongering Islamaphobes ?
                            i wasnt speaking of that type of integration.

                            if you dont have niqaabis around then how will society accept and become used to it? that doesnt mean they have to participate in your little community's church bake sale to integrate themselves
                            Screaming, But Will Never Be Heard

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                            • #15
                              Re: Do you think the veil alienates women in a western society ?

                              Perhaps the veil attracts attention but when someone looks... there is nothing to look at... just a completely covered woman, and once that novelty wears off, the true purpose of wearing it still stands. To please Allah swt

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