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  • #31
    Re: Beard line?

    Originally posted by LastFriday View Post
    YEah and then you have Hanafi masjids and maliki masjids and a lot of divisions.
    Madhab dont divide. They're not sects ...

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Beard line?

      Originally posted by LastFriday View Post
      Yeah. I understand what your saying. But its a shame that in order for a common man to understand something as simple as how he should grow a beard, he needs to become an a'alim. How can something like growing a beard have different etymology is out of my understanding.
      That's why we lay people refer to scholars. And that's why it's good to refer to the madhahib since they have trustworthy scholars.

      Originally posted by LastFriday View Post
      YEah and then you have Hanafi masjids and maliki masjids and a lot of divisions.
      That is not true. While there was a time in history where the madhahib did "split" themselves, this is not the case anymore at all whatsoever.

      In fact, most of the times you go to a mosque to pray and the Imam will not announce which madhab he's following and you will not know which madhab he's from. He will just lead the prayer and everyone will follow, whatever your madhab you belong to.

      So no, masajid are not divided among the madhahib, and the only time there could be different activities is if they're teaching fiqh classes. Then, for eg. the way it happens in my current mosque... there are hanafi fiqh classes and maliki fiqh classes at different days.. and that's the end of it.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Beard line?

        Originally posted by Noorksa View Post
        Assalamu `alaykum,

        First of all... the article is wrong. We had a thread discussing this.

        The relied-upon position of BOTH the hanafi and shafi'i madhab is that shaving is makrooh.
        Bring proof of the hanafi position?
        "Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes"

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Beard line?

          Originally posted by RashidD View Post
          Bring proof of the hanafi position?
          Sorry!! I mean maliki and shafi'i... I'm really really really sorry.

          The hanafi position is that it is haram to shave. I don't know how they define "beard".

          Thank you so much brother for catching this mistake of mine. May Allah swt forgive me.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Beard line?

            Originally posted by Noorksa View Post
            Sorry!! I mean maliki and shafi'i... I'm really really really sorry.

            The hanafi position is that it is haram to shave. I don't know how they define "beard".

            Thank you so much brother for catching this mistake of mine. May Allah swt forgive me.
            As is the Shafii's position last I checked. As far as I'm aware Imaam Shafii's (rahimahuAllah) opinion was to leave the beard untouched...

            And I'm pretty sure all the madhaabs consider shaving haraam...the difference stems in the length of the beard...fistful or two for example.

            I'll try and find my source for that.
            "The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance of things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived notions, opinion, and by prejudice." - Arthur Schopenhauer

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Beard line?

              Originally posted by mizfissy815 View Post
              As is the Shafii's position last I checked. As far as I'm aware Imaam Shafii's (rahimahuAllah) opinion was to leave the beard untouched...

              And I'm pretty sure all the madhaabs consider shaving haraam...the difference stems in the length of the beard...fistful or two for example.

              I'll try and find my source for that.
              ARRRRGGGGGGHHHHH....this was discussed before.

              Imam Shafi'i held different opinions at different points in time. Taking this into account, and the opinion of Imam Shafi'is students and etc, etc, etc... the RELIED UPON POSITION of the madhab is that shaving it is makrooh, as explained by Imam Nawawi. I am shafi'i, some other brother who is also shafi'i also confirmed this and we also gave the links in the other "beard" thread.

              And in Maliki fiqh is the same thing, shaving is makrooh.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Beard line?

                Originally posted by mizfissy815 View Post
                As is the Shafii's position last I checked. As far as I'm aware Imaam Shafii's (rahimahuAllah) opinion was to leave the beard untouched...

                And I'm pretty sure all the madhaabs consider shaving haraam...the difference stems in the length of the beard...fistful or two for example.

                I'll try and find my source for that.
                Yeah. What i wonder how one is suppose to have a CHIN beard and not shave.

                Originally posted by Noorksa View Post
                That's why we lay people refer to scholars. And that's why it's good to refer to the madhahib since they have trustworthy scholars.



                That is not true. While there was a time in history where the madhahib did "split" themselves, this is not the case anymore at all whatsoever.

                In fact, most of the times you go to a mosque to pray and the Imam will not announce which madhab he's following and you will not know which madhab he's from. He will just lead the prayer and everyone will follow, whatever your madhab you belong to.

                So no, masajid are not divided among the madhahib, and the only time there could be different activities is if they're teaching fiqh classes. Then, for eg. the way it happens in my current mosque... there are hanafi fiqh classes and maliki fiqh classes at different days.. and that's the end of it.
                Umm, true for the most part. But I doubt the prophet of Allah wanted there to be 4 madahibs. And I doubt he explain 4 different ways for every little thing. As theres ikhtilaaf on almost everything. Khair, alot of people pick and chose from madhab to madhab. Which is not right.
                " The issue in palestine will not be solved by the United States or any western country. It's not going to be solved by Dan Six Pack or Sally Soccer mom! " Anwar Al-Awlaki

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Beard line?

                  Originally posted by LastFriday View Post
                  Yeah. What i wonder how one is suppose to have a CHIN beard and not shave.
                  That's because the sides of the face are NOT considered beard, and are considered just "hair", the same way that the hair in your head is not considered a beard, the same way that the hair in your neck is not considered a beard. And while you might not understand why this is, I'm pretty sure that Imam Shafi'i and Imam Nawawi, and their students knew more about Islam and fiqh than we do, so I'm pretty sure that if they held that opinion, it's not a crazy one or one without base.

                  Originally posted by LastFriday View Post
                  Umm, true for the most part. But I doubt the prophet of Allah wanted there to be 4 madahibs. And I doubt he explain 4 different ways for every little thing. As theres ikhtilaaf on almost everything. Khair, alot of people pick and chose from madhab to madhab. Which is not right.
                  Actually, there's real ikhtilaf on things that are not central.

                  The madhahib agree on 75% of things. And usually the disagreement are in degrees, not totally opposite.
                  For e.g. in shafi'i and maliki fiqh is not that shaving is OK wooo hoo... not it's makrooh. So it's not like doing makrooh is encouraged... it is actually to be avoided to the best of our abilities... why would anyone with taqwa engage in disliked things?

                  Secondly, even among scholars who do not suscribe to a madhab, they also have difference of opinion... so it's not that differences of opinion exist BECAUSE there are madhabs... but the other way around.

                  Thirdly, the believers are not supposed to pick and choose from the different madhahib (or from different scholars) because of the risk of ending up following one's nafs.

                  Finally, it is obvious that there are points in fiqh that are hard to point out due to many different reasons. So there is difference of opinion because different schools of jurisprudence have different ways of reconciling apparent contradicting narrations, or to weigh different type of evidence, or they have different ways of interpreting certain hadiths or certain verses of Quran. Sometimes we who are in ignorance think it's easy and simple ... but it really is not.

                  However, the prophet said that (I'm paraphrasing) the judge that gets it right, alhamdulillah, he will get 2 rewards, and the judge that gets it wrong, he'll get one reward.

                  As long as you are following the opinion of someone who is pious and qualified (as is the case of the madhabs), then there's no need to worry.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Beard line?

                    Originally posted by Noorksa View Post
                    ARRRRGGGGGGHHHHH....this was discussed before.

                    Imam Shafi'i held different opinions at different points in time. Taking this into account, and the opinion of Imam Shafi'is students and etc, etc, etc... the RELIED UPON POSITION of the madhab is that shaving it is makrooh, as explained by Imam Nawawi. I am shafi'i, some other brother who is also shafi'i also confirmed this and we also gave the links in the other "beard" thread.

                    And in Maliki fiqh is the same thing, shaving is makrooh.
                    For starters, deep breaths...

                    Secondly, my dad studied under a Shafii scholar and what he was taught (and what I know) is that the opinion is to leave it untouched...

                    Thirdly, from http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/48960

                    This is more correct, for the reasons stated above. Al-Nawawi said: The preferred view is that the beard should be left as it is and should not be shortened in any way at all… and it says in al-Durr al-Mukhtaar: with regard to cutting it any shorter than the “handful”, no one said that this is permissible.
                    also...
                    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/6657/

                    In (Tuhfat al-Ahwadhi, 8/39)...
                    Al-Nawawi said: the best is to leave it as it is and not touch it or shorten it at all.
                    and lastly...
                    http://www.albalagh.net/qa/0071.shtml

                    Allaamah Nawawi (RA) states, 'The correct view (according to the Shafi'ee Madhab) is to leave the beard to grow and it is makrooh to trim the beard whatsoever.' (al-Majmoo vol.1 pg.290; also see Sharh Saheeh Muslim vol.2 pg.143
                    "The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance of things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived notions, opinion, and by prejudice." - Arthur Schopenhauer

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Beard line?

                      Originally posted by mizfissy815 View Post
                      For starters, deep breaths...

                      Secondly, my dad studied under a Shafii scholar and what he was taught (and what I know) is that the opinion is to leave it untouched...
                      Assalamu `alaykum,

                      Sister, I do not doubt what you are saying but I'm telling you it's not right. Ask your father which shafi'i book the scholar based his opinion on... and he will not find it. In fact, ask your father which shafi'i scholar he studied with since either I or my teacher will know him.

                      The three most important books of shafi'i fiqh, Fath alqarib, Fath alMuin and Fath alWahhab, state it.

                      If you need more references regarding the shafi'i opinion, please check the following:

                      http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...=3154&CATE=414

                      http://www.livingislam.org/maa/mmsb_e.html

                      http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...=2238&CATE=414

                      http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...14618&CATE=414


                      Originally posted by mizfissy815 View Post

                      Thirdly, from http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/48960

                      This is more correct, for the reasons stated above. Al-Nawawi said: The preferred view is that the beard should be left as it is and should not be shortened in any way at all… and it says in al-Durr al-Mukhtaar: with regard to cutting it any shorter than the “handful”, no one said that this is permissible.

                      Al-Nawawi said: the best is to leave it as it is and not touch it or shorten it at all.
                      Yes, of course the preferrred view is that beard should be left as it is!!! As I said, in the shafi'i madhab, shaving the beard is MAKROOH, I never said it was mubah. Thus it will obviously be better left the way it is.

                      In addition, I don't know why they're quoting Durr al-mukhtar since it's a book of HANAFI fiqh, not shafi'i fiqh.



                      Originally posted by mizfissy815 View Post
                      and lastly...
                      http://www.albalagh.net/qa/0071.shtml

                      Allaamah Nawawi (RA) states, 'The correct view (according to the Shafi'ee Madhab) is to leave the beard to grow and it is makrooh to trim the beard whatsoever.' (al-Majmoo vol.1 pg.290; also see Sharh Saheeh Muslim vol.2 pg.143
                      EXACTLY!! As I've been saying all along, shaving the beard in the shafi'i madhab is MAKROOH, not haram.


                      Also, as a general advise... don't learn shafi'i fiqh from non-shafi'i scholars (like those websites)... many times they just get it wrong or quote books that are not the ones that the madhahib actually follows. Ask a shafi'i scholar.
                      Last edited by Noorksa; 11-02-09, 05:36 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Beard line?

                        Originally posted by Noorksa View Post
                        Assalamu `alaykum,

                        Sister, I do not doubt what you are saying but I'm telling you it's not right. Ask your father which shafi'i book the scholar based his opinion on... and he will not find it. In fact, ask your father which shafi'i scholar he studied with since either I or my teacher will know him.

                        The three most important books of shafi'i fiqh, Fath alqarib, Fath alMuin and Fath alWahhab, state it.

                        If you need more references regarding the shafi'i opinion, please check the following:

                        http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...=3154&CATE=414

                        http://www.livingislam.org/maa/mmsb_e.html

                        http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...=2238&CATE=414

                        http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...14618&CATE=414




                        Yes, of course the preferrred view is that beard should be left as it is!!! As I said, in the shafi'i madhab, shaving the beard is MAKROOH, I never said it was mubah. Thus it will obviously be better left the way it is.

                        In addition, I don't know why they're quoting Durr al-mukhtar since it's a book of HANAFI fiqh, not shafi'i fiqh.





                        EXACTLY!! As I've been saying all along, shaving the beard in the shafi'i madhab is MAKROOH, not haram.


                        Also, as a general advise... don't learn shafi'i fiqh from non-shafi'i scholars (like those websites)... many times they just get it wrong or quote books that are not the ones that the madhahib actually follows. Ask a shafi'i scholar.
                        Sis, for starters, I trust Islam-qa.com probably more than any site...and again, I stand by my opinion(and theirs it would seem).

                        Secondly, my dad studied ages ago (and I mean very long time ago) and the scholar he studied from has more than likely passed away by now.

                        Lastly, trimming and shaving are not the same thing. You seemed to have misunderstood that last point. And finally, the quotes from Imaam Nawawwi (rahimahuAllah) was from his own book...and I'll leave it at that InshAllah.
                        "The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance of things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived notions, opinion, and by prejudice." - Arthur Schopenhauer

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Beard line?

                          Just would like to ask something.

                          Do you get a sin for doing something which is haram?
                          Do you get a sin for doing something which is makrooh?

                          If yes, then one madhab says you get a sin and one says you don't. Were talking about sins here. No soul will enter Jannah without having his/her sins cleaned right? Correct me if i'm wrong.
                          " The issue in palestine will not be solved by the United States or any western country. It's not going to be solved by Dan Six Pack or Sally Soccer mom! " Anwar Al-Awlaki

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Beard line?

                            i think all madhabs are in agreement about sins ...

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Beard line?

                              Originally posted by mizfissy815 View Post
                              Sis, for starters, I trust Islam-qa.com probably more than any site...and again, I stand by my opinion(and theirs it would seem).

                              Secondly, my dad studied ages ago (and I mean very long time ago) and the scholar he studied from has more than likely passed away by now.

                              Lastly, trimming and shaving are not the same thing. You seemed to have misunderstood that last point. And finally, the quotes from Imaam Nawawwi (rahimahuAllah) was from his own book...and I'll leave it at that InshAllah.
                              Errr.. no offense sis, but why would you trust more a non-shafi'i website to know the shafi'i opinion??

                              If I want to know the opinion of salafis, I would go to islamqa, I wouldn't go to sunnipath.... that's just obvious.

                              Secondly, islamqa quotes only Imam Shafi's opinion and it doesn't say that it's the opinion of the madhab. As anyone with a basic knowledge of fiqh knows, the opinion of the imam of the madhab might not be the opinion of the madhab.

                              Finally, if you want to follow the ruling of islamqa, then alhamdulillah. I just wanted to clarify the shafi'i ruling because I don't want people to be spreading the wrong fiqh of the madhab.

                              Comment

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