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  • #16
    Re: No to Polygamy?

    Originally posted by Praiseworthy View Post
    :salams
    Dear Brothers and Sisters (especially you)

    A lot of times at school I am confronted by someone who wants to know about Islam, and today someone asked me about polygamy through a females perspective.I now know why Muslims men can marry more than one woman, but can a woman (specifically the first wife) say no to her husband marrying another woman? If not, why not? What can she do to go through that situation?

    Shukran
    i think she can say no if there is no need to marry another women i.e the couple can have children.. but i dont see the need to marry more than once even if you cant have children just adopt...:up:
    but if they cannot have kidz and the man wants to marry again he has every right to marry again and his wife has no say at all!
    If U can't change the WORLD...don't let it change U!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: No to Polygamy?

      Originally posted by Kubs View Post
      It is illegal to practice Polygamy in this country and I read somewhere that a Muslim living in the UK has to abide by such laws and not to violate them as long as he resides in that country. But obviously if there was a hijab ban.....this doesn't mean every sister should take off their hijabs to suit the laws since this is going AGAINST islam - the point I'm trying to make is that polygamy is not 'compulsory' so if you don't practice it.....you don't get a sin.

      And plus you mentioned that it's 'normal' for a man to get married twice. Have a look at these hadiths:

      "If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice."- Qur’an (4:3)

      “It is very difficult to be just and fair between women.” Qur'an (4:129)

      It has been narrated that Prophet Muhammad said: “Whosoever had two wives and treats one of them more favourably than the other will come on the Day of Judgment bent to one side.”


      This shows that polygamy is highly discouraged should the man not be able to practice equality amongst his wives. And as for marrying 'one' being a secondary thing..............well the word ‘’Zawj’’ has been used many times in the Quran, which implies ‘couple’. So basically there should be one husband and wife - a couple - and not one husband and several wives. Adam, the first Prophet had only one wife Hawwa. This is the normal thing to do.

      Oh and I'd like to add.....I'm not against the concept of Polygamy....because NO muslim can be against it otherwise you'd be going against what Allah Subhanatallah has ordained.
      Of course what your saying is correct, if a man cannot do justice between his wives then it is not permitted for him to marry more than one. This is very important, and most men nowadays cannot handle more than one woman.

      I think i translated asl wrongly, as far as im aware it means the normal thing meaning like the basic idea kind of thing. E.G. eating pork is Haram, this is the asl, but in certain situations it becomes permissable, like for example when your on the verge of death and have nothing else to eat, it becomes permissable to eat only that amount which is sufficient for you to survive.

      So Sheikh Tawfique Choudhry taught us that polygamy is the asl because of the ayah in the Quran, obviously it has its conditions namely that you do justice between your wives. This is why the Prophet S and many of the Sahabah R practised polygamy. These days not many brothers do so especially in the west and so it would seem like it isnt the asl, whereas in fact it is.
      Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvM7L5Wm7q0

      ‎"If she's not on the deen, she's not fit to be your queen. If he hasn't got imaan, he's not fit to be your man."



      Comment


      • #18
        Re: No to Polygamy?

        Just a few points

        a) Polygamy is an essential element of islam. it is there for a reason. If it was not there for a reason it would not have been legislated.

        b) The uk law states that you cannot marry more than one wife ( so much for secularism. A man can marry a man as they are two consenting adults, but a man cannot marry more than one women, lol)

        But that aside the uk legislation is against UK legal marriages. Islamic marriages are not recognised as marriages in the UK unless it is accompanied by a registrar marriage. so it is perfectly legal for a muslim in the uk to have more than two wives through islamically marriage

        c) When The prophet stated that you have to do justice. What the shariah understands by this is material justice. Same amount of money, same amount of property and same amount of time. NOT and i emphasise NOT the same level of love, as you cannot love people the same.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: No to Polygamy?

          Originally posted by saladin1970 View Post
          A man can marry a man as they are two consenting adults, but a man cannot marry more than one women, lol
          hey, a man cannot marry more than one man, either

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: No to Polygamy?

            Originally posted by ugarit View Post
            hey, a man cannot marry more than one man, either
            I thought they could in uk, as long as the marriage takes place on a tuesday, or was it saturdays

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: No to Polygamy?

              the reason its allowed in Islamic countries is because it reduces the chances of women being widowed as there is no reason for divorce. but this is not understood in UK and every other person is divorced! ask yourself would you marry a widow?
              If U can't change the WORLD...don't let it change U!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: No to Polygamy?

                Originally posted by Ur bro in islam View Post
                the reason its allowed in Islamic countries is because it reduces the chances of women being widowed as there is no reason for divorce. but this is not understood in UK and every other person is divorced! ask yourself would you marry a widow?
                And you know the reason behind the legislation because???

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: No to Polygamy?

                  Originally posted by saladin1970 View Post
                  And you know the reason behind the legislation because???
                  because im above the law...lol..im kidding it doesn't take rocket science to work it out!
                  If U can't change the WORLD...don't let it change U!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: No to Polygamy?

                    Originally posted by Ur bro in islam View Post
                    because im above the law...lol..im kidding it doesn't take rocket science to work it out!
                    and what if you are wrong? or there is some other reason you missed out?

                    the reason i am asking is that i am quite uncomfortable when we second guess a meaning behind a legislation.

                    I am much more comfortable know it was legislated and so it has benefit, even if we don't know the benefit
                    Last edited by saladin1970; 25-11-08, 01:01 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      What Women can Stipulate Before Marriage?

                      What Women can Stipulate Before Marriage?

                      Shaykhu-l-Islâm Ibn Taymiyyah
                      Fatwa Contribution Number Four: Taken from the 32nd Volume, Page 164-165.



                      He was asked about a man who during his pre-marriage negotiations was told that the bride to be stipulates and puts as a condition in her prenuptial (pre-marriage) contract that he is not to seek another wife while married to the her. As well, he was not to take his wife (to be) out of her (own) home. He was also informed that the wife (to be) had a young daughter and that she would be living with her mother and him as long as she remained. He entered into all of this knowingly. Is he bound to fulfill these conditions/stipulations (later on in life). If he was to break one (or more of) these conditions would the wife have the power to demand annulment? Or is the answer no?

                      He (rh) answered:

                      Alhamdulillah.

                      Yes, these conditions are valid as well as others that are similar to them in the Madh’hab of al-Imam Ahmed and others from amongst the Sahaba, Tabi‘een and those who followed them. (From those who recognized such stipulations) were ‘Umar bin al-Khattab, ‘Amr bin al-‘Aas, Shurayh the Judge, al-Awza‘i and Ishaq.

                      Due to this we see that during this era we have the Sidaqat (dowry stipulations) of the People of Maghrib sanctioned these Shooroot because they are (still) upon the understanding the Madh’hab of al-Awza‘i from the days his Madh'hab governed them.

                      The Madh’hab of Malik validates a stipulation upon a man in which it is stipulated that he is not to marry another women while in marriage with the first (wife) or else she will be given the order (power) in her hand (to annul the marriage). She would be given the power to separate from him at her choice.

                      This position of Malik is similar in meaning to the position of al-Imam Ahmed.

                      These is (built upon) what has been reported by the two Shaykhs (Bukhari and Muslim) that an-Nabi (saw) said:

                      “The most deserving of conditions to be honoured/fulfilled are those which the genitalia are deemed Halaal by them (Marriage is built upon their acceptance).” (Bukhari Eng: 3:882-O.B)

                      ‘Umar bin al-Khattab (ra) said:

                      “The absolute rights are (established with their) stipulations.”

                      As such we see that Rasul ul Allah (saw) made the most deserving of conditions to be honoured/fulfilled are those which sexual relations are built upon. They are deemed more deserving than all other conditions. This narration is relevant to these very matters (you are asking about). Since we know that according to the Ijma‘ that the only conditions that are mentioned are as-Sidaq (dowry) and verbal (agreement). This shows that these could be (some) of the implied conditions (meant by Rasul ul Allah).

                      As for the stipulation of her child residing with her and that the man is to provide for this child then this can be seen as an increasement in her (demand) for Sidaq (dowry).



                      .
                      'Umar ibn 'Abdul-'Azeez said:
                      There is no excuse for anyone, after the Sunnah, to be misguided upon error which he thought was guidance. [as-Sunnah (no.95) of al-Marwazee]

                      Darultawhid.com

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        What a Woman may Stipulate in a Marriage Contract?

                        What a Woman may Stipulate in a Marriage Contract?

                        Imâm Ibn Qudâmah al-Maqdisî
                        al-Mughni Vol. 9, Page 483


                        He said:

                        "If a man marries her and (accepted) her stipulations that he shall not remove her from her home or city (country), then her stipulation is to be honoured/fulfilled (from that moment on) due to what has been reported from Rasul ul Allah (saaw). He said: "The most deserving of conditions to be honoured/fulfilled are those which the genitalia are deemed Halal by them (Marriage is built upon their acceptance)."

                        As well if he marries her and (accepts) her stipulation that he will not marry another woman while with her then she is granted the power to abandon him if he marries another."

                        The summary of (this issue) is that stipulations relating to Nikah (pre-nuptiual agreements) are of three main categories (Translators note: Only the first issue is translated):

                        First: (A condition) that which must be fulfill. It is a condition wherein its benefit and worth are returned. Examples are stipulations wherein he (vows) not to remove her from her residence or land, or that he will not travel with her (to foreign lands), or that he will not take another wife while with her. All of these are conditions that he would be bound to fulfilling (if he agreed to them before cohabitation). If he does not honour the stipulations she is granted the ability (and right) to annul the marriage (at her will). This is reported as being the opinion of:

                        ‘Umar bin al-Khattab, Sa‘d bin Abi Waqas, Mu‘awiyah, ‘Amr bin al- ‘Aas (radia Allahu ‘Anhom). It was also stated by:

                        Shurayh, ‘Umar bin ‘Abdul-Aziz, Jabir bin Zayd, Tawus, Al-Awza‘i and Ishaq."

                        Those who deemed these conditions unacceptable were:

                        (none of them Sahabah): az-Zuhari, Qatadah, Hisham bin ‘Urwa, Malik [1], al-Laith, ath-Thawri, ash-Shafi‘i (in part), ibn al-Mundhir, and the people of logical deduction and inference.

                        Abu Hanifah and ash-Shafi‘ee stated:

                        "(If he breaks one of the aforementioned conditions she is not entitled to leaving him.) The original dowry (Mahr) is deemed invalid and she deserves another equal Mahr to what she has already been given (by her husband).

                        They use as their proof the statement of Rasul ul Allah (saaw):

                        "Any condition, which is not in Allah’s Book, is worthless (invalid). Even if there are a hundred conditions. Allah’s decision is more valid and Allah’s condition is more binding." (Agreed upon)

                        (They say) such a condition is (not sanctioned) in Allah’s Book since the Law does not espouse it.

                        He (saaw) also said,

                        "A Muslims are bound to their conditions/stipulations. (But) a condition that makes Halal a Haram or a Haraam Halaal is (not from binding conditions)." (Bukhari, Tirmithi and others)

                        This (type of condition) is turning a Halal into a Haram. Taking more than wife, traveling (are Halal). As well these conditions do not benefit or improve the ‘Aqd (marital pre-nuptial contract) and are not integral to it. In fact it would be similar to stipulating that she is not to present her self (ever) to him (in copulation)."

                        End words of Shafi‘ee and Abu Hanifah

                        For us (our understanding) we have the following (evidence):

                        "The most deserving of conditions to be honoured/fulfilled are those which the genitalia are deemed Halaal by them (Marriage is built upon their acceptance)." Agreed Upon.

                        As well his statement (saaw):

                        "Muslims are bound to their conditions/stipulations." (Previously referenced)

                        As well we have named many Sahaba who validated these stipulations, and none from their generation / peers refuted them. Therefore we establish this as being Ijma‘ (consensual agreement by them all).

                        It is narrated by al-Athram with his chain of narration that a man married a woman and (agreed to the stipulation) that she may reside in her (own) home. Thereafter he sought to transfer her elsewhere. They turned to ‘Umar (ra) in disputation.

                        He (ra) said

                        "Her condition is to be fulfilled."
                        The man replied, "If that is the case then she is to grant the divorce (he means that she is to relinquish her condition or divorce him)."

                        ‘Umar (ra) replied, "The absolute rights are (established with their) stipulations (His right is over-ruled by his agreement to her stipulation)." [2]

                        This (as well as the other mentioned stipulations are) valid because there is only benefit found in it (does not call to deviance) and it is not intended to depreciate or tarnish what is established by Nikah. Therefore fulfilling the condition is obligatory. (These types of stipulations) are the same as if she stipulated that he increase her Mahr (from his initial offer) or not take her abroad.

                        As for his (saaw) statement:

                        "Any condition, which is not in Allah’s Book, is worthless (invalid)."

                        This is regarding a condition that is not founded upon Allah’s Hukm and Shari‘ah. These (conditions) are substantiated in Shari‘ah. We have shown precedence for it. Those who seek to oppose this (valid opinion) must bring forth (explicit) evidence that renders the aforementioned evidence nullified.

                        As for their (Shafi‘i and Abu Hanifah) statement: that these stipulations make a Halal Haram then we say that they do not make the Halal into Haram.

                        It merely ensures the right of a woman to decide for herself if she wishes to remain in that situation or not considering that he has not fulfilled his pre-marital agreement.[3]

                        As for their statement: That there is no benefit or improvement in these stipulations.

                        We say that we object to this understanding. These (stipulations) are very beneficial for the woman. The benefit of the stipulator is beneficial as well for the one being stipulated to (since the man knows what is acceptable and what is not).

                        Fasl (Side point):

                        If she was to stipulate that he was to divorce his other wife then that condition would be deemed invalid and unacceptable.

                        Abu Huraira (ra) reports:

                        "An-Nabi (saaw) forbade a woman from making it a condition for her husband to divorce her sister (his other wife)." Reported by al-Bukhari.

                        Footnotes

                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        [1] The Madh’hab of Malik validates a stipulation upon a man in which it is stipulated that he is not to marry another women while in marriage with the first (wife) or else she will be given the order (power) in her hand (to annul the marriage). She would be given the power to separate from him at her choice. This position of Malik is similar in meaning to the position of al-Imam Ahmed. (Fatawa of Ibn Taymiyyah 32nd Volume, Page 164-165)

                        [2] Reported by Ibn Abi Shaybah in his Musaanaf (Vol. 4 pages 199). As well it is found in the Sunnan of Sa‘eed bin Mansour (Vo1. 1, Pg. 185)

                        [3] It is important to note that the second wife is legal for the man to wed. The issue is whether the first wife wants to remain in that situation or not. Many people mistakenly think that this stipulation makes it illegal for the husband to take the second or third wife. That is not the case at all. It is merely to ensure that the first wife is able to leave the marital relationship if she cannot deal with the new situation.


                        Darultawhid.com




                        .
                        'Umar ibn 'Abdul-'Azeez said:
                        There is no excuse for anyone, after the Sunnah, to be misguided upon error which he thought was guidance. [as-Sunnah (no.95) of al-Marwazee]

                        Darultawhid.com

                        Comment

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