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  • Russo
    replied
    Re: women and travelling

    I did say "no offence".

    Okay, I take it back and will say, I have found some of his answers questionable.

    I dont want make this into a big argument nor do I wish to disrespect anyone. Sorry if it sounded like that.

    Leave a comment:


  • abstract
    replied
    Re: women and travelling

    russo, i think that response is somewhat disrespectful.

    Leave a comment:


  • Russo
    replied
    Re: women and travelling

    Originally posted by KeeKee View Post
    no offence to any of you, but as a learned mufti (mufti desai) i think he knows more of what he's talking about than any of you.

    No offence to any of you or the mufti in question (and I didnt say his answer was incorrect by the way).

    I think I will probably give this mufti's knowledge a miss given his rather obscure and dumb online answers he has given in the past. (Not saying that he doesnt have knowledge) but his answers have been questionable to say the least!

    Leave a comment:


  • KeeKee
    replied
    Re: women and travelling

    do you think everything is written crystal clear in the hadith? if that was the case, who would need scholars?

    so fine, don't take mufti desais take on the subject. here are some more links; take your pick!!
    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/4523
    http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...=1993&CATE=143
    http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/wtravel1.htm

    Leave a comment:


  • hanifa
    replied
    Re: women and travelling

    Originally posted by KeeKee View Post
    no offence to any of you, but as a learned mufti (mufti desai) i think he knows more of what he's talking about than any of you.
    Sure. 40 miles = 88 km!

    Besides, 88 km is written down clearly in the hadeeth he quoted, right?

    hanifa

    Leave a comment:


  • KeeKee
    replied
    Re: women and travelling

    no offence to any of you, but as a learned mufti (mufti desai) i think he knows more of what he's talking about than any of you.

    Leave a comment:


  • hanifa
    replied
    Re: women and travelling

    Originally posted by Russo View Post
    This is the same mufti whose online response to a victim of sexual abuse by her father was to to "cover up" and make herself look unatrractive to him in the house when her father is around. And that was about it in terms of what to do.

    Subhannallah!
    Where did he get 88km from?
    Where did the other poster get 48km from?
    What do the ahadeeth actually say? (they speak of time periods, not distances)?
    When is a person "travelling"? If you drive along an urbanly developed road (where the speed limit is 30 mph), are you "travelling"?

    And much more.

    Some arguments talk about "on foot" or "on camel back" to get distances, and argue that the different lengths of time mentioned are due to the transport available to the questioner (in the time of the Prophet).

    Isn't it about time people used that kind of reasoning for today's travellers?

    hanifa

    Leave a comment:


  • Russo
    replied
    Re: women and travelling

    Originally posted by Islam's Warrior View Post
    w'salaam sis

    the rulings on women travelling alone are that no women should travel more then 40miles without a mahram.


    The following is from http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...94bad2927eff4d

    Question
    1) Is a 12 year old girl who has reached the age puberty and resides in the Uk allowed to go on a school trip to Germany as part of her German subject. This trip is for 2 weeks where the students get the opportunity to go to the country who's language they are studying. they will be supervised by the teachers during the journey and on arrival in Germany, they will live with their host family. Please guide me in light of the quran and hadith if she is allowed to go on this trip and what are the practical ways of achieving this if there is one.

    2) A muslim girl from the uk has travelled to Morocco to study Arabic. Initially i told her that according to Hanafis a mature girl is not allowed to travel for more than 48 miles without a mahram even if it is for Hajj. she told me that she travelled with her parents to Morocco and when she returns to Uk then her parents will come to morocco and pick her up. in that way she is accompanied by a mahram i.e. her father. During her stay in morocco she is a muqeema as she is not travelling for more than 48 miles within morocco on her own. Please enlighten me as to whether this will be correct.


    Answer
    A mahram may accompany this 12 year old girl. If she will be staying with her relatives in Germany, then her mahram can go back to the UK and come after two weeks to pick her up.

    Sayyiduna Abu Hurayra, Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Umar, Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Abbaas and Sayyiduna Abu Sa'eed al-Khudri [radhiallaahu anhum] have reported that Rasulullah [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] said, 'It is not permissible for a woman to undertake a journey (of 88 kms or more) without a Mahram (person with whom marriage is permanently prohibited, for example, father, brother, etc.).' (Sahih Bukhari Hadith3006, 1727 / Sahih Muslim Hadith 3245, 3256, 3257, 3259)

    It is Makrooh-e-Tahrimi (close to Haraam) for a woman to travel for 88 kms or more without a Mahram. (Shaami vol.2 pg.465; HM Saeed). It is also not permissible for a woman to travel without a Mahram in short distances (lesser than 88 kms) if there is a fear of Fitnah, crime, etc.

    It is unfortunate that the number of Muslim women that are travelling long distances alone - without a Mahram - is increasing by the day. It is also incorrect to assume that today's modes of transport to far distances are safe, or a woman is sure of safeguarding her chastity.

    In fact, some women even travel alone to the holy places of Makkah Mukarramah and Madinah Munawwarah. How could one expect to achieve any benefit of such a journey when the basic requirement of Shari'ah - travelling with a Mahram - is not fulfilled? There are many incidents of women having been put into difficulty and their chastity been attacked by travelling alone in short and long distances. No mode of transport is error-proof and no woman is chaste-proof, especially in these times of vice and immorality.

    Furthermore, as believers, we express our submission to the laws of the Shari'ah. Allah Ta'ala is al-Hakeem (the All-Wise) and He and His Prophet [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] know the wisdom of the laws of the Shari'ah. Our responsibility is to express submission to the laws of Allah and His Rasul [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] whether we understand them or not. Know well that every law of the Shari'ah is filled with wisdom. That includes the prohibition of female travelling long distances without a Mahram.

    and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

    Mufti Ebrahim Desai
    This is the same mufti whose online response to a victim of sexual abuse by her father was to to "cover up" and make herself look unatrractive to him in the house when her father is around. And that was about it in terms of what to do.

    Subhannallah!

    Leave a comment:


  • love00
    replied
    Re: women and travelling

    The Ideal Muslimah

    She does not sit alone with a "stranger"
    Obedience to Allah and His Messenger (saws) can only be achieved by following their commands and keeping away from that which they have prohibited. One way in which the Muslim women obeys Allah and his Messenger (saws) is by not sitting alone with a "stranger" (ajnabi) i.e., a man to whom she is not closely related (i.e., non-mahram - marriagable person), because doing so is haram according to the consensus of the scholars, on the basis of the hadith:
    "A man should not sit alone with a women unless a mahram is with her, and a women should not travel without a mahram. A man stood up and said: 'O' Messenger of Allah, my wife has set out for Jahh, and I have enlisted for such-and-such military expedition.' He said, 'Go and perform Hajj with your wife."'
    The mahram is a man to whom marriage is forever forbidden for a women, such as the father, brother, paternal uncle, maternal uncle, etc.
    The anjabi or "stranger" is a man to whom marriage is allowed in principle, even if he is a relative, especially the husband's brother and other similarly close relatives. It is forbidden for a women to sit alone with all of these, because the Prophet (saws) said:
    "Beware of visiting women." A man of the Ansaar asked, 'O' Messenger of Allah, what about the brother-in-law?' He said, 'The brother-in-law is death."'

    The brother-in-law is the husband's brother or other similarly close relatives by marriage. The Prophet's words, "The brother-in-law is death" mean that evil is more likely to occur from these quarters then from elsewhere, because of the ease with which he enters his brother's house. The word "death" is used for emphasis and as a sharp warning, as if sittin alone with the brother-in-law may lead to immorality and calamitous consequences that would be akin to the calamity of death.

    The true Muslim woman does not fall into such errors as are committed by so man careless people nowadays.


    Page 72

    By Muhammad Ali Al-Hasimi

    INTERNATIONAL ISLAMIC PUBLISHING HOUSE

    Leave a comment:


  • Walnut
    replied
    Re: women and travelling

    w'salaam sis

    the rulings on women travelling alone are that no women should travel more then 40miles without a mahram.


    The following is from http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...94bad2927eff4d

    Question
    1) Is a 12 year old girl who has reached the age puberty and resides in the Uk allowed to go on a school trip to Germany as part of her German subject. This trip is for 2 weeks where the students get the opportunity to go to the country who's language they are studying. they will be supervised by the teachers during the journey and on arrival in Germany, they will live with their host family. Please guide me in light of the quran and hadith if she is allowed to go on this trip and what are the practical ways of achieving this if there is one.

    2) A muslim girl from the uk has travelled to Morocco to study Arabic. Initially i told her that according to Hanafis a mature girl is not allowed to travel for more than 48 miles without a mahram even if it is for Hajj. she told me that she travelled with her parents to Morocco and when she returns to Uk then her parents will come to morocco and pick her up. in that way she is accompanied by a mahram i.e. her father. During her stay in morocco she is a muqeema as she is not travelling for more than 48 miles within morocco on her own. Please enlighten me as to whether this will be correct.


    Answer
    A mahram may accompany this 12 year old girl. If she will be staying with her relatives in Germany, then her mahram can go back to the UK and come after two weeks to pick her up.

    Sayyiduna Abu Hurayra, Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Umar, Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Abbaas and Sayyiduna Abu Sa'eed al-Khudri [radhiallaahu anhum] have reported that Rasulullah [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] said, 'It is not permissible for a woman to undertake a journey (of 88 kms or more) without a Mahram (person with whom marriage is permanently prohibited, for example, father, brother, etc.).' (Sahih Bukhari Hadith3006, 1727 / Sahih Muslim Hadith 3245, 3256, 3257, 3259)

    It is Makrooh-e-Tahrimi (close to Haraam) for a woman to travel for 88 kms or more without a Mahram. (Shaami vol.2 pg.465; HM Saeed). It is also not permissible for a woman to travel without a Mahram in short distances (lesser than 88 kms) if there is a fear of Fitnah, crime, etc.

    It is unfortunate that the number of Muslim women that are travelling long distances alone - without a Mahram - is increasing by the day. It is also incorrect to assume that today's modes of transport to far distances are safe, or a woman is sure of safeguarding her chastity.

    In fact, some women even travel alone to the holy places of Makkah Mukarramah and Madinah Munawwarah. How could one expect to achieve any benefit of such a journey when the basic requirement of Shari'ah - travelling with a Mahram - is not fulfilled? There are many incidents of women having been put into difficulty and their chastity been attacked by travelling alone in short and long distances. No mode of transport is error-proof and no woman is chaste-proof, especially in these times of vice and immorality.

    Furthermore, as believers, we express our submission to the laws of the Shari'ah. Allah Ta'ala is al-Hakeem (the All-Wise) and He and His Prophet [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] know the wisdom of the laws of the Shari'ah. Our responsibility is to express submission to the laws of Allah and His Rasul [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] whether we understand them or not. Know well that every law of the Shari'ah is filled with wisdom. That includes the prohibition of female travelling long distances without a Mahram.

    and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

    Mufti Ebrahim Desai

    Leave a comment:


  • twilight_sis
    started a topic women and travelling

    women and travelling

    Assalamu'alaikum,

    What are the rulings of women travelling alone without a Mahram?

    JZKALLAH
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