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Malaysia plans women travel curbs - MAshAllah

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  • Malaysia plans women travel curbs - MAshAllah

    Malaysia plans women travel curbs


    The proposal has been criticised as impractical and regressive


    Women's groups in Malaysia have reacted angrily to proposed government restrictions on women travelling abroad on their own.

    State media say the plan would require women to obtain written consent from their families or employers.


    The Malaysian foreign minister said the move would prevent single women being used by gangs to smuggle drugs.
    The proposal follows a review of criminal cases where women had been jailed abroad.


    Outrage
    Foreign Minister Rais Yatim said 90% of cases where Malaysian women had been jailed by foreign courts involved drugs.
    He told the New Sunday Times newspaper that a compulsory letter of consent to travel alone would enable women's families to make sure they were not being tricked by drug smuggling gangs.


    "Many of these women (who travel alone) leave the country on the pretext of work or attending courses and seminars," he said.


    "With this declaration, we will know for sure where and for what she is travelling overseas," he said.


    Women's groups have expressed outrage at the plan.
    The National Council for Women's Organisations said it would infringe women's rights.


    Another group, Sisters in Islam, said the proposal was totally ridiculous and regressive, and assumed that women were less capable than men of making their own decisions.


    Campaigners have pointed out that letters of permission to travel would be very easy to forge.


    In recent years the influence of hardline Islamic groups has been increasing in Malaysia, but it is unclear whether this proposal has any religious motive.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/7382859.stm
    "Closer and closer to mankind comes their Reckoning: yet they heed not and they turn away" (21:1)

    " How can the one who chooses a hour of Haraam pleasure, above the eternal pleasure of Jannah, ever be considered as sane? "
    -Ibn Al Qayyim


    Beneficial Database of Islamic Books and Media: www.Islamhouse.com
    Interested in Islam : www.islamreligion.com ; www.islam-guide.com

  • #2
    Re: Malaysia plans women travel curbs - MAshAllah

    good for them masha Allah :up: alhamdulillah. pakistan, bangladesh india, morrocco and all other muslim countries should do the same and forbid lone women from entering the country. i find it quite shocking how easily the muslim women jump on a plane on their own and go cavorting off here and there when its haram to do that !! and there arent levels of haram, haram is haram.

    its haram to drink alcohol, and its haram to travel alone, yet the same women who would say astagfirllah to drinking vodka, would so easily get on a plane alone and go off somewhere. travelling with a mahram is done for a womans protection, and as the malaysian government is saying there are human traffickers out there, rapists murderers and so on.

    i remember watching a documentary about a non muslim man from eastern europe who went to the airport with his wife, saw her through the gate to board her plane, and she never reached her destination at the other side, she was taken by a gang and gang raped into submission to work as a prostitute for them, he spend four years looking for her, and finally met two prostitutes who told them his wife was working for their pimp, but the pimp found out about him being there and asking questions and had his wife killed. the man was devestated and he blamed himself for not going with his wife when she got on the plane to visit her parents in her home country.

    but how many sisters have no problem getting on a plane and travelling thousands of miles alone their "excuse" is well our mahrams have to work, they cant always take us. well u know what then they cant go and its as simple as that, we are not even to leave our houses except for necessity and i cant believe that muslim men, even in england and america actually allow their wives and daughters to go off to college and university and to work alone, and dont even bother to drop them there and pick them up again why can they not just spare a little of their time to make sure their wards arrive safely insha Allah . surely they will be asked about that on the day of judgement should anything happen to them, the streets of the non muslims lands are not safe even for the non muslim women never mind the muslim women, and it is those mens duty to take care of the women Allah ta ala entrusted to them. there are reports on the news everyday in the west about women being raped and murdered or attacked by some criminal nutter audu billah.
    Last edited by *asiya*; 04-05-08, 03:26 PM.
    "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

    The Prophet :saw: said:

    "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

    muslim

    Narrated 'Abdullah:

    The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


    "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

    By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

    [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Malaysia plans women travel curbs - MAshAllah

      This bothers me. Some people don't seem to realize that the world has changed since the time of the Prophet (pbuh). Back then it was dangerous for women to travel alone but now, at least in the USA where I live, it's not that dangerous.

      We say that Islam is a religion of reason but then we keep doing things contrary to that claim. The Malaysian government is using false motives in trying to pass this law by tying it to the belief that if it passes, women will no longer be used in drug trafficking. That right there is a lie. Drug dealers will always find a way around the law and the innocent women, who have no ties to drugs, will be the ones suffering from the impairment on their movement. In fact, how hard would it be a for a rich drug dealer to forge a permission slip?

      This law is actually very similar to gun control laws, in that both are misguided and hurt the very people they try to protect. With gun control laws, the theory is that if people are prevented from getting guns, there will be less instances of murder and violence. What you get in practicality, however, are unarmed civilians facing thugs (who aren't afraid of using the black market) with guns. Same thing with this law- it's trying to protect women just like how gun control laws try to protect innocent civilians, but in actuality, what you get are innocent adult women being degraded into asking for permission slips to travel, just like how kids in elementary schools need permission slips to go on field trips. The criminal will always find a way around the law; it's the innocent who suffer.

      If you honestly believe this is a positive step in the right direction, you're essentially supporting the concept of introducing unfair laws that discriminate against one sex in order to give dominance to the other (if you don't have freedom of movement, you're a slave)- which is unslamic.

      Edit: Thank Allah (swt) the proposal has been shot down: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/...Drug-Mules.php
      Last edited by haque; 05-05-08, 06:07 PM.
      Salam! :)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Malaysia plans women travel curbs - MAshAllah

        No wonder they're outraged. Its warped.
        You are not aware of the consequences that would result (if you were granted what you desire) because what you seek might be to your detriment. (O soul) be conscious that your Master is more aware about your well-being than you are.

        ~Ibn Al-Jawzee

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Malaysia plans women travel curbs - MAshAllah

          the drugs smugling cases happen but going as far as curbing women from travelling is too much. Why not improve the security of the airport or get some sophisticated drugs dectector or somehting?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Malaysia plans women travel curbs - MAshAllah

            Originally posted by Ebony View Post
            No wonder they're outraged. Its warped.
            its not warped it is Islam.

            “no woman should travel without a mahram.”
            sahih bukhari & muslim


            “The Prophet salallahu alleyhi wa salam said: ‘No woman should travel except with a Mahram, and no man should visit a woman unless her Mahram is with her.’ A man said, ‘O Messenger of Allaah, I want to go out with such-and-such an army and my wife wants to go to Hajj.’ He said, ‘Go to Hajj with her.”
            al-Bukhaari, 1729.


            “It is not for any believing man or any believing woman, when Allah and his messenger have decided upon a matter that they should have any say in the affair” Quran surah 33 ayat 36,


            " The only saying of the faithful believers, when they are called to Allah (His Words, the Qur’aan) and His Messenger, to judge between them, is that they say

            ‘We hear and we obey.’ And such are the successful (who will live forever in Paradise) And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger, fears Allah, and keeps his duty (to Him), such are the successful "


            Al-Noor 24:51-52
            "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

            The Prophet :saw: said:

            "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

            muslim

            Narrated 'Abdullah:

            The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


            "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

            By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

            [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Malaysia plans women travel curbs - MAshAllah

              Anyone can quote a hadith. I'd like to see some commentary from a legitimate scholar.
              Salam! :)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Malaysia plans women travel curbs - MAshAllah

                Originally posted by haque View Post
                Anyone can quote a hadith. I'd like to see some commentary from a legitimate scholar.
                not a problem

                Prohibition of a woman travelling without a mahram, and conditions of a mahram

                Question:
                Assalam O Alikium My mother is planning to go to ummrah inshallah. But she needs a mairram and her husband nor her brothers are able to go. We have asked an alm he said she can go with her brother in-law which is also her first cousin. As long as his wife is there which she will be cause she's going too. Is this permissable in Islam because I still have my doubts. Jazak allah ho karun.

                Answer:

                Praise be to Allaah.

                One of the ways in which Islam protects women is that it requires a woman to travel with a mahram, to protect her from those who have bad intentions and to help her, because of her weakness, in facing the arduous trials of travelling. A woman is not permitted to travel without a mahram because of the hadeeth narrated by Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him), who reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A woman should absolutely not travel unless she has a mahram with her.” A man stood up and said, “O Messenger of Allaah, I have enlisted in such-and-such a military campaign, and my wife has set out for Hajj.” He said, “Go and do Hajj with your wife.” (al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, 3006).

                What indicates that a mahram is obligatory is the fact that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded this man to give up the idea of jihaad (on this occasion), even though he had enlisted for a campaign and his wife was travelling for the purpose of worship, not for some frivolous or suspicious reason. In spite of all this, he told him to go and do Hajj with his wife.

                The ulamaa’ have listed five conditions for a person to be considered a mahram. He should be male, Muslim, adult, and of sound mind, and he should be a relative to whom marriage is permanently forbidden, such as a father, brother, paternal uncle, maternal uncle, father in law, mother’s husband or brother through radaa’ah (breastfeeding), etc. (as opposed to relatives to whom marriage is temporarily forbidden, such as a sister’s husband, paternal aunt’s husband, maternal aunt’s husband).

                On this basis, the husband’s brother and the son of a paternal or maternal uncle are not mahrams, so it is not permitted for her to travel with them. And Allaah knows best.

                Islam Q&A
                Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

                http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=316&ln=eng
                "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

                The Prophet :saw: said:

                "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

                muslim

                Narrated 'Abdullah:

                The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


                "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

                By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

                [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Malaysia plans women travel curbs - MAshAllah

                  Women travelling with other women without a mahram

                  Question:
                  Is a woman counted as a mahram for a non-related woman when travelling and in other cases, or not?

                  Answer:

                  Praise be to Allaah.

                  A woman cannot be a mahram for anyone else. The mahram is a man who is forbidden for marriage to the woman because of blood ties, such as her father or brother; or a mahram through marriage, such as her husband, husband’s father or husband’s son; or a father or son through ridaa’ (breastfeeding, i.e., the father or son of the woman who breastfed her), and so on.

                  It is not permissible for a man to be alone with a non-mahram woman or to travel with her, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No woman should travel except with a mahram” (saheeh, agreed upon).

                  And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No man is alone with a woman, but the third one present with them is the Shaytaan” (narrated by Imaam Ahmad and others, from the hadeeth of ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) with a saheeh isnaad).

                  And Allaah is the Source of strength.


                  Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat Mutanawwi’ah li Samaahat al-Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him), vol. 8, p. 336

                  http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=9370&ln=eng
                  "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

                  The Prophet :saw: said:

                  "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

                  muslim

                  Narrated 'Abdullah:

                  The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


                  "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

                  By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

                  [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Malaysia plans women travel curbs - MAshAllah

                    Women travelling without a mahram

                    Question:
                    I understand that a woman to travel by herself for the duration of a day and a night without a mahram is haram. However the speed of air travel which takes at most 8 hours. Is it halal for a woman be dropped off at the departing airport by a mahram and picked up at the destination airport by another mahram? The total journey would be at most 10 hours.

                    Answer:

                    Praise be to Allaah.

                    It is not permissible for a woman to travel without a mahram because of the general meaning of the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him):
                    "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

                    The Prophet :saw: said:

                    "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

                    muslim

                    Narrated 'Abdullah:

                    The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


                    "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

                    By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

                    [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Malaysia plans women travel curbs - MAshAllah

                      I remain unconvinced. All you have is that one hadith and responses formulated around it. I want to know the commentary behind that hadith. What were the social and political environments like in the time of the Prophet (pbuh) that made him say such a statement that a woman cannot travel without a mahram? Could it be that there were robbers and criminals running around the desert who would harm women if they found them traveling alone without protection?

                      Thing is that the Prophet (pbuh) was a pragmatic man. When the situation changed, he changed his way of dealing with it. For example, look at the Battles of Badr and the Trench. The Prophet (pbuh) chose to respond to each situation by employing a different strategy each time. At Badr, he (pbuh) ordered the Muslim army to station itself in front of the wells and fight the enemy out in the open field; At the Battle of the Trench, he (pbuh) ordered the people of Medina to dig trenches around the city and holdout the siege.

                      I know, I'm talking about his (pbuh) military strategies, but, they give a great insight into his (pbuh) mind. He (pbuh) adapted to his circumstances; When the situation called for it, he changed his ways so that he could deal with it in the most efficient way possible. Using this principle, I conclude that the situation of traveling has changed. It has become safer and faster and therefore, we can't employ the same rules we used in the past.
                      Last edited by haque; 05-05-08, 10:59 PM.
                      Salam! :)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Malaysia plans women travel curbs - MAshAllah

                        Originally posted by haque View Post
                        I remain unconvinced. All you have is that one hadith and responses formulated around it. I want to know the commentary behind that hadith. What were the social and political environments like in the time of the Prophet (pbuh) that made him say such a statement that a woman cannot travel without a mahram? Could it be that there were robbers and criminals running around the desert who would harm women if they found them traveling alone without protection?

                        Thing is that the Prophet (pbuh) was a pragmatic man. When the situation changed, he changed his way of dealing with it. For example, look at the Battles of Badr and the Trench. The Prophet (pbuh) chose to respond to each situation by employing a different strategy each time. At Badr, he (pbuh) ordered the Muslim army to station itself in front of the wells and fight the enemy out in the open field; At the Battle of the Trench, he (pbuh) ordered the people of Medina to dig trenches around the city and holdout the siege.

                        I know, I'm talking about his (pbuh) military strategies, but, they give a great insight into his (pbuh) mind. He (pbuh) adapted to his circumstances and environment; When the situation called for it, he changed his ways so that he could deal with it in the most efficient way possible. Using this principle, I conclude that the situation of traveling has changed. It has become safer and faster and therefore, we can't employ the same rules we used in the past.
                        islam doesnt change with the times or to suit your desires, the evidence has been brought to you if u reject what the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam then go and learn about islam, and stop bringing your own personal conjecture into the matter, the prophet salAllahu alleyhi wa salam has clearly stated it is haram for a woman to travel without a mahram that is the end of the matter u can accept islam or u can reject it thats up to you but the muslim hears and obeys.

                        if you think that this world is safe for women to travel alone today then clearly u do not watch the news or read the reports about the women who are raped and murdered and sold into sexual slavery day after day worldwide, it is worse now than it has ever been, so dont try to fool yourself, open your eyes.
                        Last edited by *asiya*; 05-05-08, 11:02 PM.
                        "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

                        The Prophet :saw: said:

                        "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

                        muslim

                        Narrated 'Abdullah:

                        The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


                        "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

                        By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

                        [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Malaysia plans women travel curbs - MAshAllah

                          Well, you've said your peace and now I will say mine. The problem is that nowhere in the Qur'an is there any evidence for this restriction of movement. As such, my opinion is that the particular hadith applies more to the Prophet's (pbuh) time than to ours.

                          The way I see it, the Prophet (pbuh) issued a decree that was relevant to the situation that the Muslims were facing back in those times. Bukhari & other hadith collectors (may Allah be pleased with them) recorded it, and now people today are quoting it and trying to make the rest of us follow a ruling which was introduced under circumstances that mostly don't exist today (I can only speak for the area in which I live, the USA).

                          Yes, there are women who are suffering harassment, violence, and murder in our time, but so are men. Such is the nature of this dunya. There will always be violence. However, not all parts of this world are as violent as to necessitate that a woman always be accompanied with a mahram. For example, where I live and in western countries in general, life is pretty safe, provided that you stay away from the gang areas, projects, downtown, etc. Now of course, anything can happen to you at any time, but for the most part, the feeling of safety is there.

                          In essence, look at the PRINCIPLE behind the Prophet's (pbuh) sayings. He wanted women to be safe while traveling. Taking a 7 hour flight from JFK to Heathrow is pretty safe these days. However, if you end up on a plane with a faulty engine, having a mahram around isn't really going to protect you anymore than if you are alone.
                          Salam! :)

                          Comment

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