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Why Do Some Muslims Hate the Islamic Belief of the Necessity of a Caliphate?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Muslim First View Post

    China is a communist state lol so ruling by an iron fist isn't the way to go. In theory it'd be amazing, but the current leadership uses their positions for power and lining their own pockets. You're asking these individuals to go from Presidents/Kings to governors. And the current leaders don't care about Islam and a lot of them don't believe in it. They just use a few words and token scholars to fool their supporters and they're backed by either America or Russia/China, so anything threatening that will be removed. Look at what happened to Morsi rh the day he was elected they were in fear on cnn about Egypt having an "Islamist" leader and the plan for a coup was underway the minute he won. Look at what they did to an individual who memorized the Quran! and the only elected leader in the Arab world so imagine if a lot of Muslim countries decided to join one another?.. in sha Allah we'll live to see this glorious day where we're united but it's going to take a lot of hard work and sacrifice.
    If you don't want to use China, you can take India then. Second largest population in the world and extremely diverse with a very lage Muslim population too. As I said, diversity is not a problem. I didn't say it would be easy, especially undoing the generations of brainwashing that have occurred through the "educational institutes". But we need to start somewhere. It's almost 100 years since the end of the last Caliphate. And I see no sign in today's Muslims that they want it back. Instead they want democracy and secular constitution, and then when Muslims get attacked like recently, we start complaining why "Muslim leaders" are not doing anything. Who is the Muslim leader? The leader of Saudi Arabia is the leader of that land, the leader of UAE is the leader of their land, the leader of Pakistan is the leader of their land. They are leaders of their own lands, not the ummah of Muslims. The jurisdiction of one ruler doesn't apply to the land of another ruler. That is not a Muslim ruler. The Muslim ruler, the Caliph, has authority over all Muslim lands, not just a part of it.

    Muslims are being systematically dehumanized, their lives devalued into worthless expendable rags, and it is very much visible. Even many non-Muslims concede to this. Yet, we still are not doing anything significant to break that system. Democracy exists because most people want it. And it wouldn't exist if most people didn't want it.

    إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يُغَيِّرُ مَا بِقَوْمٍ حَتَّى يُغَيِّرُواْ مَا بِأَنْفُسِهِمْ

    Comment


    • #17
      Barakallahu fik for sharing, brother.

      Some very good points.

      Comment


      • #18
        Let us consider the geographical land mass here :

        From Morocco to Indonesia

        It has Gibraltar, Suez canal, gulf of Aden, strait of homruz, Malacca strait

        It has crude oil and natural gas from North Africa to Central Asia


        Europe, China, etc need these fuel to power their industries.

        Also they need these trade routes for commerce shipment.

        The western world and the Eastern domain all have interests in this region because of it's geostrategic importance.

        This is why Israel is termed by some experts as a
        Surrogate fortress or watchdog of the USA and it's allies because Israel enables the west to monitor and control the whole region.

        I personally call it the modern crusader castle.

        A caliphate would be an existential threat for Israel .

        And consequently threaten western interests in the region.

        The only way to assert dominance is to keep the status quo

        Which is to keep those who oblige in their place and those who disobey in chaos.
        https://followthemoney.com/preparing...system-part-1/
        https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-2/
        https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-3/
        https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-4/

        Comment


        • #19
          to make a caliphate with actual power would take decades and would come with its own set of issues to sort out. It's not like it will be a caliphate one year and Palestine is liberated the next. It would be years of countries opting for federalization and joining the union. Then decades of building up the country so it actually has power on the world stage.

          Even then, do you want a caliph just to restore the islamic empire, or do you want a place where muslims can practice islam? Would you solve an issue by invading or by taking those groups in and assimilating them into society? Do we use soft power and economic threats or military might and oppose global hegemony in favour of regional hegemon or do we opt for it and become the new top dog? Would you be ok with a muslim group you hate or has "deviant" ideas being leader of the caliphate?

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by notEVOLVED View Post

            If you don't want to use China, you can take India then. Second largest population in the world and extremely diverse with a very lage Muslim population too. As I said, diversity is not a problem. I didn't say it would be easy, especially undoing the generations of brainwashing that have occurred through the "educational institutes". But we need to start somewhere. It's almost 100 years since the end of the last Caliphate. And I see no sign in today's Muslims that they want it back. Instead they want democracy and secular constitution, and then when Muslims get attacked like recently, we start complaining why "Muslim leaders" are not doing anything. Who is the Muslim leader? The leader of Saudi Arabia is the leader of that land, the leader of UAE is the leader of their land, the leader of Pakistan is the leader of their land. They are leaders of their own lands, not the ummah of Muslims. The jurisdiction of one ruler doesn't apply to the land of another ruler. That is not a Muslim ruler. The Muslim ruler, the Caliph, has authority over all Muslim lands, not just a part of it.

            Muslims are being systematically dehumanized, their lives devalued into worthless expendable rags, and it is very much visible. Even many non-Muslims concede to this. Yet, we still are not doing anything significant to break that system. Democracy exists because most people want it. And it wouldn't exist if most people didn't want it.

            إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يُغَيِّرُ مَا بِقَوْمٍ حَتَّى يُغَيِّرُواْ مَا بِأَنْفُسِهِمْ
            And this is the main issue. We have two groups at the moment. One that is led by Turkey and one that is led by Saudi and this has historical issues with the Ottomans vs Najd. The mention of unity/khilafa is basically a death sentence in Muslim countries. It won't be easy to undo and it'll take a lot of sacrifice but it'll happen eventually. May Allah grant us with a united ummah.. Ameen.

            "The organisation that is called as "the state" puts effort to destroy jihad in Sham as they destroyed it in Iraq because of their obvious transgressions against Quran and Sunnah." Abu Khalid as-Suri (Rahimahullah)

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by alifbahtah View Post
              to make a caliphate with actual power would take decades and would come with its own set of issues to sort out. It's not like it will be a caliphate one year and Palestine is liberated the next. It would be years of countries opting for federalization and joining the union. Then decades of building up the country so it actually has power on the world stage.

              Even then, do you want a caliph just to restore the islamic empire, or do you want a place where muslims can practice islam? Would you solve an issue by invading or by taking those groups in and assimilating them into society? Do we use soft power and economic threats or military might and oppose global hegemony in favour of regional hegemon or do we opt for it and become the new top dog? Would you be ok with a muslim group you hate or has "deviant" ideas being leader of the caliphate?
              The sad thing when people predict the future, or say this cannot happen or that cannot happen is they overlook the will of Allah and His might

              I remember when Iraq was totally secular then it became a center of Islamic jihad
              Same with Afghanistan, and even Palestine. these countries were not thinking of Islam for long time, it only takes Allah to change hearts, and major changes happen

              We dont know what or when anything can happen, that is solely up to Allah, but what we can do is correct our Islam, work with each other to strengthen and correct our Islam

              That is one aspect that i think ummah.com and the internet, in general can be used for

              Also, offline actions, but not token gestures but real meaningful applications of Islam and removing bida and cultural deviances

              .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
              نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
              دولة الإسلامية باقية





              Comment


              • #22
                Some videos on the caliphate from a credal/historic perspective here, in case of interest:

                Abbasid Apocalypse:
                - https://youtu.be/s1glrPczPB4

                Mamluk Misfortune:
                - https://youtu.be/4d6DTtVzN8Q
                Last edited by KnoweldgeNorth; 31-05-21, 07:18 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  If we look carefully, we can see how US and it's allies secure their interests across the globe.

                  They build military bases close to their facilities (oil and gas , trade routes) to protect their interests.


                  The large number of bases in Europe is to counter Russian military might and increasingly large number of bases in Asia Pacific to challenge Chinese economic power.


                  Along with that we can also see military bases near Panama canal and south American oil fields. And hence the old Cuban crisis and new Venezuela threat.

                  Attached Files
                  https://followthemoney.com/preparing...system-part-1/
                  https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-2/
                  https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-3/
                  https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-4/

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Wonder why UK and Spain hold the opposite sides of Gibraltar strait,
                    Why UK and France went to war with Egypt when Egypt nationalised Suez canal,
                    Why bosphorous strait is not under Turkish control as per treaty (anyone can pass through)
                    Why so many countries have military bases in dijoubti near gulf of aden ?
                    Why US naval vessels in large number regularly patrol near strait of homruz?
                    Why US military bases near Malacca strait?

                    Also why so many US bases near coastal regions of gulf where large oil fields are present?

                    The answer is simple
                    Last edited by ອາໄສຢູ່ ຣາຮາມ; 01-06-21, 08:52 AM.
                    https://followthemoney.com/preparing...system-part-1/
                    https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-2/
                    https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-3/
                    https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-4/

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      China studied the fall of Soviet Russia very deeply and made significant changes to it's policy ( the authoritarian style government made the process fast and easy )

                      Now China has transformed from an emerging nation to an expansionist Power in all but 30 years. ( It was nowhere near Japan in 1990 )

                      Now it looks to the US in eyes and even stands toe to toe.

                      An exemplary feat indeed.

                      The world is now bipolar again with US and it's European allies on one side and China and Russia on other side.

                      Both sides have interests (oil gas and trade routes) in west Asia /near East


                      US and allies have a long time partner in KSA.

                      China, Russia have become increasingly supportive of Iran.

                      Central Asia is under Russian influence.

                      North Africa under french/European .

                      What gives edge to the West in the whole region is Israel: a geostrategic asset that enables the west to politically and militarily dominate the entire region.
                      https://followthemoney.com/preparing...system-part-1/
                      https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-2/
                      https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-3/
                      https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-4/

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Although I may be wrong , but it seems the East (Russia and China) are going to get involved much more deeply (politically and militarily) in Global conflicts in the coming years.

                        Muslims should be careful and abhor all kinds of agitation in the name of political philosophies/ idealogies that are foreign to their social culture whether they come from East or West.

                        Many a times conflicts are fueled by intelligence operatives.

                        In Hope of overcoming the bad the attempt may actually lead to something worse.

                        All kinds of outside influence should be rejected whether East or West.

                        They come with fancy words and talk about values and institution but they seek nothing but their own interests.

                        Why did they not intervene in Myanmar?
                        No oil
                        No gas
                        No land trade routes
                        No sea trade routes

                        No interest

                        No intervention


                        They speak about human rights only to sanction countries that do not obey them

                        They work on war on teror only to invade a country that has challenged them.

                        They use such pretexts to dominate and destroy.


                        Last edited by ອາໄສຢູ່ ຣາຮາມ; 01-06-21, 09:23 AM.
                        https://followthemoney.com/preparing...system-part-1/
                        https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-2/
                        https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-3/
                        https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-4/

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ອາໄສຢູ່ ຣາຮາມ View Post
                          If we look carefully, we can see how US and it's allies secure their interests across the globe.

                          They build military bases close to their facilities (oil and gas , trade routes) to protect their interests.


                          The large number of bases in Europe is to counter Russian military might and increasingly large number of bases in Asia Pacific to challenge Chinese economic power.


                          Along with that we can also see military bases near Panama canal and south American oil fields. And hence the old Cuban crisis and new Venezuela threat.

                          Wonder why UK and Spain hold the opposite sides of Gibraltar strait,
                          Why UK and France went to war with Egypt when Egypt nationalised Suez canal,
                          Why bosphorous strait is not under Turkish control as per treaty (anyone can pass through)
                          Why so many countries have military bases in dijoubti near gulf of aden ?
                          Why US naval vessels in large number regularly patrol near strait of homruz?
                          Why US military bases near Malacca strait?

                          Also why so many US bases near coastal regions of gulf where large oil fields are present?

                          The answer is simple

                          China studied the fall of Soviet Russia very deeply and made significant changes to it's policy ( the authoritarian style government made the process fast and easy )

                          Now China has transformed from an emerging nation to an expansionist Power in all but 30 years. ( It was nowhere near Japan in 1990 )

                          Now it looks to the US in eyes and even stands toe to toe.

                          An exemplary feat indeed.

                          The world is now bipolar again with US and it's European allies on one side and China and Russia on other side.

                          Both sides have interests (oil gas and trade routes) in west Asia /near East


                          US and allies have a long time partner in KSA.

                          China, Russia have become increasingly supportive of Iran.

                          Central Asia is under Russian influence.

                          North Africa under french/European .

                          What gives edge to the West in the whole region is Israel: a geostrategic asset that enables the west to politically and militarily dominate the entire region.

                          Although I may be wrong , but it seems the East (Russia and China) are going to get involved much more deeply (politically and militarily) in Global conflicts in the coming years.

                          Muslims should be careful and abhor all kinds of agitation in the name of political philosophies/ idealogies that are foreign to their social culture whether they come from East or West.

                          Many a times conflicts are fueled by intelligence operatives.

                          In Hope of overcoming the bad the attempt may actually lead to something worse.

                          All kinds of outside influence should be rejected whether East or West.

                          They come with fancy words and talk about values and institution but they seek nothing but their own interests.

                          Why did they not intervene in Myanmar?
                          No oil
                          No gas
                          No land trade routes
                          No sea trade routes

                          No interest

                          No intervention


                          They speak about human rights only to sanction countries that do not obey them

                          They work on war on teror only to invade a country that has challenged them.

                          They use such pretexts to dominate and destroy.
                          i agree

                          Along with this assessment, both the USA, Europe, China, Russia, & Israel know the strength of a united ummah and with all work together to make sure that we Muslims never unite and rise again, because with all of that GeoPolitical Maneuvering, an Islamic nation would destroy them all (just as the Prophet and companions did 1400 yrs ago)

                          This is why nations will come together and attack you like being invited to a dinner, and their success is a humiliation to this ummah until we return to our religion

                          So as long as we bicker, fight, alter our religion, we are destined to remain in this woeful state

                          And sadly, the ummah is too short sighted in its individual viewpoints to see the larger picture, whether that is globally or locally
                          Last edited by AbuMubarak; 01-06-21, 10:01 AM.
                          .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                          نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                          دولة الإسلامية باقية





                          Comment


                          • #28
                            The biggest obstacle in trying to establish a caliphate is to achieve freedom and independence.


                            Are Muslim countries free?
                            When they can hardly decide on their foriegn and defense policies by themselves?

                            Are Muslim countries independent ?
                            When they are largely dependent on foreign aid?

                            Let us ask ourselves :

                            Why was the establishment occured in Madinah munawwarah and not in Makkah mukarramah ?

                            Is it not because complete freedom an independence was achieved in Madinah while there were restrictions and constraints of all kinds in Makkah?


                            Many countries around the world drafted a construction for themselves only after having achieved independence from their colonisers.

                            But is it true independence on national level when the colonist still exercises influence?

                            Israel is not just the last remnant of colonialism but a seed of a larger disguised tree.

                            So the first objective should be to achieve freedom ( from those who continue to exercise influence ).

                            When you can't decide the policies of West,
                            But the west gets to decide your policies

                            Then how are both independent (to the same degree) ?

                            Without independence, they may try even a puppet caliphate can be established.





                            https://followthemoney.com/preparing...system-part-1/
                            https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-2/
                            https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-3/
                            https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-4/

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              The super power of West is largely due to the exploitation it carried during colonisation.

                              It still continues to a certain degree in present age :

                              1 taking resources and minerals from Sub saharan Africa at extremely cheap

                              2 taking oil and gas from OPEC using petrodollar recycling

                              3 manufacturing and producing goods using cheap labour from China
                              4 marketing and selling these goods by shipping through trade routes across land and sea.


                              But times are changing :

                              1 Increasing influence of China in Africa

                              2 fall if petrodollar with rise of petroyuan.

                              3 rise in wages of Chinese labour

                              4 building of belt and road initiative


                              China has studied US / western domination in detail and has come up with striking plans

                              This is why US/ West is pissed off from China


                              https://followthemoney.com/preparing...system-part-1/
                              https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-2/
                              https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-3/
                              https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-4/

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                What is amazing about China is that it never went vocal with it's ambitions.

                                Maintained a sustainable strategy

                                Used tactic diplomacy

                                Still says is not trying to do anything but development and not challenging anyone even though US / West is not getting proper sleep
                                https://followthemoney.com/preparing...system-part-1/
                                https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-2/
                                https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-3/
                                https://followthemoney.com/petrodollar-collapse-part-4/

                                Comment

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