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A Critique of Husam al-Haramayn: How a fatwa split the Ummah

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  • Sunni Ashrafi
    replied
    Originally posted by imran1976 View Post

    Translate the whole video, I posted, narrating the meeting of Pir Mehar Ali Shah with Allama Anwar Shah Kashmiri.

    Pir Naseeruddin Naseer was addressing extremist brelwis like you saying that didn't his grandfather knew the kufr of deobandis when he was meeting with Anwar Shah Kashmiri.

    According to Allama Ahmad Raza, anybody who doubts the kufr of deobandi elders is a kafir ---- deobandis don't agree with this and this makes them all kafir ---- Now point out where Pir sahab said that deobandis are kafirs and if you aren't able to show, does this makes Pir sahab a kafir according to the fatwa?

    you are moaning about Ashraf Ali Thanvi, the fatwa declares all of them kafirs.

    Brelwis have left tawheed according to Pir Sahab, does this makes you brelwis kafir?
    ٧٨٦/٩٢
    المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


    I'm not translating an entire video for no reason. Just because Pir Mehr Ali Shah رحمة الله عليه didn't issue a Fatwa regarding the Deobandis, that doesn't mean that he didn't agree with the Fatwa of Ala Hazrat. Pir Mehr Ali Shah had a great deal of respect for Ala Hazrat, as supported by this excerpt:"
    عارف باللہ امام اہل سنت حضرت مولانا مولوی سید پیر مہر علی شاہ صاحب قبلہ گولڑوی رضی اللہ عنہ ارشاد فرماتے تھے کہ آپ اعلی حضرت کی زیارت کیلئے بریلی شریف حاضر ہوئے تو اعلی حضرت حدیث پڑھا رہے تھے. فرماتے تھے مجھے یوں محسوس ہوتا کہ اعلی حضرت بریلوی حضور پر نور صلی اللہ تعالی علیہ و سلم کو دیکھ دیکھ کر آپ کی زیارت شریفہ کے انوار کی روشنی میں حدیث پڑھا رہے ہیں." (الشاہ احمد رضا: ص ۱۰۳
    I'm not just talking about Ashraf Ali Thanwi, I'm including the other four mentioned in the Fatwa: Rasheed Ahmad Gangohi, Qasim Nanotwi, Khalil Ahmad Ambethwi and Ismail Dehlwi. Ala Hazrat did not say that all Deobandis are Kafirs, rather those who are aware of the Kufr of these five people, know that the statements they made are Kufr and still deny it, are also Kafirs. An illiterate Deobandi with no knowledge of these things would not be considered a Kafir because he is unaware.

    Brelwis have left tawheed according to Pir Sahab, does this makes you brelwis kafir?
    Where did Pir Naseeruddin Naseer make this statement.

    Leave a comment:


  • imran1976
    replied
    Originally posted by Sunni Ashrafi View Post
    ٧٨٦/٩٢
    المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


    Don't you feel shame in lying. I've given you timestamps from the video link I sent you where Pir Naseeruddin Naseer رحمة الله عليه talks about the Kufr of the Deobandis and how he doesn't share their Aqeedah. He clearly states at 3:15:
    "
    او حضور نے گستاخ ان، بے ادب ان، اور انہاں لوگاں نے پچھے نماز نہیں اونی", those who wrote such statements (i.e., the Deobandi Molvis such as Ashraf Ali Thanwi) are heretics, have no respect for رسول الله ﷺ, and Namaz is not accepted if it is read behind them. You still haven't said whether or not you think Ashraf Ali Thanwi is a Kafir.
    Translate the whole video, I posted, narrating the meeting of Pir Mehar Ali Shah with Allama Anwar Shah Kashmiri.

    Pir Naseeruddin Naseer was addressing extremist brelwis like you saying that didn't his grandfather knew the kufr of deobandis when he was meeting with Anwar Shah Kashmiri.

    According to Allama Ahmad Raza, anybody who doubts the kufr of deobandi elders is a kafir ---- deobandis don't agree with this and this makes them all kafir ---- Now point out where Pir sahab said that deobandis are kafirs and if you aren't able to show, does this makes Pir sahab a kafir according to the fatwa?

    you are moaning about Ashraf Ali Thanvi, the fatwa declares all of them kafirs.

    Brelwis have left tawheed according to Pir Sahab, does this makes you brelwis kafir?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunni Ashrafi
    replied
    Originally posted by imran1976 View Post

    clean your ears and listen it again -- Pir Mehar Ali Shah sahab never gave any fatwa of kufr against deibandi elders and Pir Naseeruddin Naseer held the same view and the reason you extremists brelwis called him deviated.

    Pir Naseeruddin Naseer even said in one of his bayan that brelwis have left tawheed --- so are you brelwis kafirs?
    ٧٨٦/٩٢
    المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


    Don't you feel shame in lying. I've given you timestamps from the video link I sent you where Pir Naseeruddin Naseer رحمة الله عليه talks about the Kufr of the Deobandis and how he doesn't share their Aqeedah. He clearly states at 3:15:
    "
    او حضور نے گستاخ ان، بے ادب ان، اور انہاں لوگاں نے پچھے نماز نہیں اونی", those who wrote such statements (i.e., the Deobandi Molvis such as Ashraf Ali Thanwi) are heretics, have no respect for رسول الله ﷺ, and Namaz is not accepted if it is read behind them. You still haven't said whether or not you think Ashraf Ali Thanwi is a Kafir.
    Last edited by Sunni Ashrafi; 05-12-20, 04:22 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • imran1976
    replied
    Originally posted by Sunni Ashrafi View Post
    ٧٨٦/٩٢
    المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


    You must suffer from selective hearing. He very clearly states at 3:15 that those who wrote such statements are heretics, have no respect for رسول الله ﷺ, and Namaz is not accepted if it is read behind them. He goes on to state at 4:20 that those Molvis who say that he supports the Deobandis and shares their Aqeeda are all shameless Molvis for making such an accusation. He goes on to say at 5:00 that you will never find a single statement of his where he speaks in support of a Heretic who insults رسول الله ﷺ, and Ashraf Ali Thanwi falls into that category, so it is clear that Pir Naseeruddin Naseer رحمة الله عليه regards Ashraf Ali Thanwi as a Kafir.

    I asked you a simple question that only requires a 'yes' or 'no' answer. I asked you whether or not Ashraf Ali Thanwi is a Kafir, and rather than giving a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer, you tried different ways to avoid the question. Why can't you just answer the question, do you feel shame in having to admit that Ashraf Ali Thanwi is a Kafir. Just give a 'yes' or 'no' answer, is he a Kafir or not.

    clean your ears and listen it again -- Pir Mehar Ali Shah sahab never gave any fatwa of kufr against deibandi elders and Pir Naseeruddin Naseer held the same view and the reason you extremists brelwis called him deviated.

    Pir Naseeruddin Naseer even said in one of his bayan that brelwis have left tawheed --- so are you brelwis kafirs?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunni Ashrafi
    replied
    Originally posted by imran1976 View Post
    I would advice both you brelwis and deobandis to stop giving your own meanings to the bayans of Pir Naseeruddin Naseer sahab --- My answer to your question in the words of Pir sahab (note: I ain't a mureed of golra sharif pirs)

    https://youtu.be/y52CkLNXBK8
    ٧٨٦/٩٢
    المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


    You must suffer from selective hearing. He very clearly states at 3:15 that those who wrote such statements are heretics, have no respect for رسول الله ﷺ, and Namaz is not accepted if it is read behind them. He goes on to state at 4:20 that those Molvis who say that he supports the Deobandis and shares their Aqeeda are all shameless Molvis for making such an accusation. He goes on to say at 5:00 that you will never find a single statement of his where he speaks in support of a Heretic who insults رسول الله ﷺ, and Ashraf Ali Thanwi falls into that category, so it is clear that Pir Naseeruddin Naseer رحمة الله عليه regards Ashraf Ali Thanwi as a Kafir.

    I asked you a simple question that only requires a 'yes' or 'no' answer. I asked you whether or not Ashraf Ali Thanwi is a Kafir, and rather than giving a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer, you tried different ways to avoid the question. Why can't you just answer the question, do you feel shame in having to admit that Ashraf Ali Thanwi is a Kafir. Just give a 'yes' or 'no' answer, is he a Kafir or not.


    Leave a comment:


  • imran1976
    replied
    Originally posted by Sunni Ashrafi View Post
    ٧٨٦/٩٢
    المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di51pfnMlAI Watch the video. The answer to your question starts at 3:00
    I would advice both you brelwis and deobandis to stop giving your own meanings to the bayans of Pir Naseeruddin Naseer sahab --- My answer to your question in the words of Pir sahab (note: I ain't a mureed of golra sharif pirs)

    https://youtu.be/y52CkLNXBK8

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunni Ashrafi
    replied
    Originally posted by imran1976 View Post
    old fashioned or new fashioned, it's up to you if you want to answer.
    ٧٨٦/٩٢
    المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di51pfnMlAI Watch the video. The answer to your question starts at 3:00

    Leave a comment:


  • imran1976
    replied
    Originally posted by Sunni Ashrafi View Post
    ٧٨٦/٩٢
    المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله

    Call me old-fashioned, but the way it usually works is when someone asks a question first you answer it before asking a question of your own. I asked my question first, answer it.
    old fashioned or new fashioned, it's up to you if you want to answer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunni Ashrafi
    replied
    Originally posted by imran1976 View Post

    I also asked you, answer the question.
    ٧٨٦/٩٢
    المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله

    Call me old-fashioned, but the way it usually works is when someone asks a question first you answer it before asking a question of your own. I asked my question first, answer it.
    Last edited by Sunni Ashrafi; 05-12-20, 11:15 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • imran1976
    replied
    Originally posted by Sunni Ashrafi View Post
    ٧٨٦/٩٢
    المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


    I asked you, answer the question.
    I also asked you, answer the question.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunni Ashrafi
    replied
    Originally posted by imran1976 View Post

    Did you asked this question to Pirs of Golra Sharif?
    ٧٨٦/٩٢
    المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


    I asked you, answer the question.

    Leave a comment:


  • imran1976
    replied
    Originally posted by Sunni Ashrafi View Post

    ٧٨٦/٩٢
    المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


    Then is Ashraf Ali Thanwi a Kafir or not.
    Did you asked this question to Pirs of Golra Sharif?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunni Ashrafi
    replied
    Originally posted by imran1976 View Post

    By ALLAH swt', I didn't --- so plz don't waste your time posting material for me.

    see the issue with your types is that in your head you think only you and the ones you follow are rightly guided, all others are ignorants or kafirs. (there's a reason I advice you to visit mental hospital).

    any Muslim who commits blasphemy is out of fold of Islam and faces death penalty. -- if he repents, this is accepted but the execution is to be done.
    ٧٨٦/٩٢
    المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


    Then is Ashraf Ali Thanwi a Kafir or not.

    Leave a comment:


  • imran1976
    replied
    Originally posted by Sunni Ashrafi View Post
    ٧٨٦/٩٢
    المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


    Stop being so dramatic, you did read my entire post, before deciding to only quote some of it in your reply and leave the rest out, I wonder why. If you're so rightly-guided as you think then answer one question: Is the person who insults رسول الله ﷺ and then refuses to repent a Kafir or not.
    By ALLAH swt', I didn't --- so plz don't waste your time posting material for me.

    see the issue with your types is that in your head you think only you and the ones you follow are rightly guided, all others are ignorants or kafirs. (there's a reason I advice you to visit mental hospital).

    any Muslim who commits blasphemy is out of fold of Islam and faces death penalty. -- if he repents, this is accepted but the execution is to be done.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunni Ashrafi
    replied
    Originally posted by imran1976 View Post
    I am not even reading what you are posting, so responding is out of question --- and I know what you both groups write, it's nothing new, it has become like a broken record. --- who's got the time and energy to get involve in your useless time wasting activities --- you both want to keep the tussle alive, as this generates funds .....

    I am not some Tom sitting in london or paris, I am from the place where these two groups were born and have grown up with them (listening to their arguments) --- I know very well the extremists from both side and I know very well how to handle them.

    I think it was stupid of you to bring my english speaking skills in your post (didn't this sound ridiculous?) --- I am not into english grammar and composition competition ---

    listen takfiri boy, your types are very close minded sectarian buffoons, talking with your types (whichever or whatever sect) is very difficult --


    ٧٨٦/٩٢
    المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


    Stop being so dramatic, you did read my entire post, before deciding to only quote some of it in your reply and leave the rest out, I wonder why. If you're so rightly-guided as you think then answer one question: Is the person who insults رسول الله ﷺ and then refuses to repent a Kafir or not.

    Leave a comment:

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