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Honest Tea Talk Episode on Gender Roles

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  • Honest Tea Talk Episode on Gender Roles

    This episode demonstrates how college Riba loans and feminism have corrupted the minds of practicing Muslim women:



    1. Justifying going to Univeristy and having a career without acknowledging the prohibition/curse of Riba
    2. Dismissing the successful gender roles of the previous Muslims as "culture"
    3. Replacing the Shar'i rights of husband/wife with modern Western culture (Women must obey their husbands and cannot leave the house without his permission)
    4. Dictating what Muslim men should do and how they should feel about the new-age "liberated" Muslim woman
    5. Failing to understand that Muslim men are largely struggling because of the secularization/modernization of the Muslim woman (Summayah said that there's a problem with how Muslim boys are being raised, instead of acknowledging her worldly aspirations as a part of the problem)
    6. Using specific examples of Muslim women working/Shari'ahs allowance for women to work and making that the standard norm for all women (contradicts traditional Islamic gender roles)
    7. Criticizing Muslim men for wanting a sense of "dominance" when the Shari'ah entitles them with that authority (equality between genders contradicts Islam and leads towards cowardice, emasculation and literal Dayoothism)
    Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 15-01-20, 08:08 PM.

  • #2
    Layla_

    Comment


    • #3
      As with anything involving the kuffar, we are always supposed to refer to quran and sunnah, otherwise, we will be led astray

      The term "education" means different things to the kuffar than to the Muslim
      as well as freedom, careers, justice, equality, fun, gender roles, marriage, love, sex, science, enlightenment, knowledge, intelligence, abuse, oppression, spirituality, God, i am sure there are many others

      As a Muslim today, we must be aware of these differences and teach them to our children, friends, neighbors, and even our parents

      When the kuffar want to enter a Muslim country and help the Muslims, we should always be aware of their perspective
      When they give you awards for sports, education, careers, etc, again, be aware

      Everything they say & do isnt evil, but it is our job to know the difference
      .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
      نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
      دولة الإسلامية باقية





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      • #4
        Strong, independent, 21st century muslimah

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Faith reloaded 2 View Post
          Strong, independent, 21st century muslimah
          Interesting how when Islam was at its peak Muslim women were generally housewives and didn't take Riba loans for secular knowledge. Now that we're at the footsteps of Akhiru Zaman and the Ummah is on the verge of destruction this narrative has become the standard norm.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Faith reloaded 2 View Post
            By the way I'm not condemning the program as a whole. Perhaps there's some benefit in it for practicing Muslim sisters. My contention here is primarily with this specific episode.

            I also didn't create this thread with the intention of basing Muslim women. I've always been consistent in blaming our parents (specifically the fathers) for emigrating to Dar al-Kufr, neglecting the spirituality of the sisters, and enrolling them into University on Riba.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post

              By the way I'm not condemning the program as a whole. Perhaps there's some benefit in it for practicing Muslim sisters. My contention here is primarily with this specific episode.

              I also didn't create this thread with the intention of basing Muslim women. I've always been consistent in blaming our parents (specifically the fathers) for emigrating to Dar al-Kufr, neglecting the spirituality of the sisters, and enrolling them into University on Riba.
              Yes, we are not trying to create discord, but civil discussion. I know there are fans of this show on UF, so let us hear their views and what they make of this episode

              Comment


              • #8
                I disagree with your points and I think they can too be picked apart islamically.

                I think my life is not to be centered on men, its not islamic, everyone has rights but everything I do is for Allah and I would not sacrifice much for a man who didn't raise me or has just come to know of me.

                In a marriage I would have to meet someone who has similar views, I would never go out of my way to force my opinions on anyone. If they want a housewife, then there are plenty of sisters who have a preference for that, I don't condescend them and I respect them.

                Just don't ask me to give up something that I enjoy and is not haram. I go to work and try to be formal.

                With my studies, it seems I fear Allah than many of the brothers from my uni who went on to work at investment banks and other dodgy places.

                Its not all about the sisters. Its the way you approach the modern life, rather than shunning it.

                If you don't have strong imaan to begin with or didn't hold Islam to high regard, then of course you won't have any discretion and will just swallow up any opportunity.

                Also, about riba loans. Those are not allowed for men and women alike.

                I had the chance of studying with ease with a student loan for my tuition fees covered by riba loans and to have an extra student living loan which would have helped me so much, especially as I come from a low income family.

                I didn't take it and thats to do with - the fact that I enrolled before they hiked up tuition fees.

                But even then I paid the fees from my own money so didn't enjoy any comforts as such.

                So I even remember having a crisis and asked Allah what to do, and in the end I had to give up so much money for the sake of Allah.

                I don't judge others as the situation has changed with regards to tuition fees. Though there can be ways around this like working, taking loans from the community (among somalis this is called the 'hagbad'), scholarships.


                I just feel this post is unfair and picks at some good sisters, just because they don't conform to your opinions.

                وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

                And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


                أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

                Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


                Please take a look at my travel booking website : https://destinationfindertravel.com/

                Please take a look at my blog : http://thinkingmuslima.blogspot.co.uk/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
                  I disagree with your points and I think they can too be picked apart islamically.

                  I think my life is not to be centered on men, its not islamic, everyone has rights but everything I do is for Allah and I would not sacrifice much for a man who didn't raise me or has just come to know of me.

                  In a marriage I would have to meet someone who has similar views, I would never go out of my way to force my opinions on anyone. If they want a housewife, then there are plenty of sisters who have a preference for that, I don't condescend them and I respect them.

                  Just don't ask me to give up something that I enjoy and is not haram. I go to work and try to be formal.

                  With my studies, it seems I fear Allah than many of the brothers from my uni who went on to work at investment banks and other dodgy places.

                  Its not all about the sisters. Its the way you approach the modern life, rather than shunning it.

                  If you don't have strong imaan to begin with or didn't hold Islam to high regard, then of course you won't have any discretion and will just swallow up any opportunity.

                  Also, about riba loans. Those are not allowed for men and women alike.

                  I had the chance of studying with ease with a student loan for my tuition fees covered by riba loans and to have an extra student living loan which would have helped me so much, especially as I come from a low income family.

                  I didn't take it and thats to do with - the fact that I enrolled before they hiked up tuition fees.

                  But even then I paid the fees from my own money so didn't enjoy any comforts as such.

                  So I even remember having a crisis and asked Allah what to do, and in the end I had to give up so much money for the sake of Allah.

                  I don't judge others as the situation has changed with regards to tuition fees. Though there can be ways around this like working, taking loans from the community (among somalis this is called the 'hagbad'), scholarships.


                  I just feel this post is unfair and picks at some good sisters, just because they don't conform to your opinions.
                  You didn't pick apart my post. Please address my points in a numbered format if you plan on doing so to keep things clear and concise.

                  My position is not based on worldly desires. Traditional Islamic gender roles are healthier for Muslim families and enables men with the qualities to better lead the Ummah.
                  Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 16-01-20, 01:08 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    .
                    Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 16-01-20, 01:02 AM. Reason: Khayr

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      AmantuBillahi did the sisters at any point advocate taking student loans based on riba? You seem utterly fixated on this issue and make assumptions that everyone who has been to uni has done so and you then attribute their behaviour/actions to the riba, without even knowing the facts. This is wrong in shariah. My degree for example did not cost me a penny.

                      Secondly, these sisters are approaching this from a sister's POV, they have lived experience of marriage, divorce, abuse. This undoubtedly co!ours ones ideas, perceptions and reactions. You said before that you aren't married, so you are not maybe aware of the actual husband/wife dynamic in real life. These sisters are in London - the vast majority of Muslim women there need to work in order to live, therefore traditional roles are a thing of historical culture for them.

                      Totally agree that as an ummah we have issues with the way that many of our boys are raised. Little Emperor syndrome I call it; can do no wrong, must be waited on hand and foot etc. They make terrible husbands as they want the respect of the king whilst behaving like a princess. I think this is what sister Sumayya was referring to. I don't see that that contradicts shariah in any way.

                      Point 6, again they live in London. I assume their ex/husbands were happy for them to be contributing to the households. I know all three sisters were housewives until it became necessary for them to work. They work for and with Muslims, they are not flying any feminist flags insisting that housewives are last century. They all home educated too, raising their children upon the sunnah and attempting to instil Islamic morals and values.

                      Your post comes across as not only judgemental, but based on assumptions rather than facts. I don't agree with everything these sisters say/do in this series, but judging by the comments many, many sisters can relate to what they are saying. It makes me really sad as a sister that brothers out there are so quick to jump to conclusions about us. I know for a fact that this holds many of us back from doing good for others for fear of this reaction. Rather than putting the blame on sisters for causing internalized issues within brothers, perhaps look for the root of the problem, which I believe is deep seated misogyny from the time of jaahiliya. UStaath Tim Humble has got it spot on mShaAllah, his talks on women in Islam are so beautifully put, unfortunately not everyone has the ability of knowledge to do so. May Allah swt guide us all to the way that is pleasing to Him.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post

                        You didn't pick apart my post. Please address my points in a numbered format if you plan on doing so to keep things clear and concise.

                        My position is not based on worldly desires. Traditional Islamic gender roles are healthier for Muslim families and enables men with the qualities to better lead the Ummah.
                        I didn't say I would pick apart your posts, I said your post can be picked apart islamically.

                        For example, your understanding of shariah rights limits wifes and women when that is not even islamically obligated. Before the 1700's women worked in their family farms and their pastoral lifestyles in much of the Muslim world

                        Only some sections of Muslim societies could afford home-based women. This was true even for the pre-industrial west, and at least very true for Somalis.
                        وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

                        And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


                        أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

                        Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


                        Please take a look at my travel booking website : https://destinationfindertravel.com/

                        Please take a look at my blog : http://thinkingmuslima.blogspot.co.uk/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This link discusses the true understanding of manliness in Islam:

                          https://abuaminaelias.com/true-men-m...nity-in-islam/
                          وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

                          And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


                          أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

                          Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


                          Please take a look at my travel booking website : https://destinationfindertravel.com/

                          Please take a look at my blog : http://thinkingmuslima.blogspot.co.uk/

                          Comment


                          • #14

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                            • #15
                              I watched this episode of Honest tea talk several months ago so clicked on the thread out of curiosity. What I remember of the episode bears no resemblance to what the brother is alluding to in this thread- it's as if he watched something completely different from what I watched. I don't always agree with the sisters on that channel but overall I think what they've done so far has been very good, particularly in terms of discussing topics that are too often swept under the carpet in our community.
                              The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

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