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Sisters who work - Why do you do it instead of staying at home?

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  • Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post

    Akhi, aren't you describing yourself? I clearly said, "As long as there's no haram there." And then you bring up other things to say that I'm wrong....

    I really don't get you sometimes. If you don't want your wife, daughters, sisters, etc... to work then that's fine too. I have absolutely no problem with sisters who stay at home for whatever reason, but if a sister wants to work and her family has no objections and it's not haram, then no one should care. Right? I feel like I've been consistently saying this in the beginning, but because you want me to be wrong you keep saying I'm avoiding the question.

    To quote an ummah legend, "I don't get it."
    Haram like what? Give me some examples?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by zi-zizou View Post

      Haram like what? Give me some examples?
      Stripper. High class Escort. The person who poses nude in front of art workshops.
      مَّن ذَا الَّذِي يُقْرِضُ اللّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا فَيُضَاعِفَهُ لَهُ أَضْعَافًا كَثِيرَةً وَاللّهُ يَقْبِضُ وَيَبْسُطُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ

      "Who is he that will loan to Allah a beautiful loan, which Allah will double unto his credit and multiply many times?
      It is Allah that giveth (you) Want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return."
      Surah al-Baqarah
      [2:245]

      .:.
      .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
      Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

      .:.
      ...said the spider to the fly...

      Comment


      • Hope no one was offended by aunty comment about their posts. It was a joke.



        I think the reason why they complain about sisters working is because when every sister is working inevitably your own female family members will also want to work.although it's true that these issues should be dealt with by deciding with your own family regarding work. But society has a strong influence on that.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post

          Stripper. High class Escort. The person who poses nude in front of art workshops.
          Occupations sisters don't go for anyway, I am assuming you are referring to all prostitution and not just "High class" escorts.

          So everything else apart from that ilk is fair game? What about something a bit more subtle like working in an office/factory with lots of men and she in unable to control her gaze or perhaps having friendly lunches with male colleagues or one in particular. Would that be okay? because in the main this is the likely workplace scenario rather than say swinging from a pole.

          Could it be seen by some as a necessary evil as it's the main place she would likely find a husband and so is perhaps willing to cut the odd corner. I am surprised that this is one of the reasons not given on why some sisters want to go out and work. Perhaps we would not get something so obvious being mentioned on the forum.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by zi-zizou View Post

            Occupations sisters don't go for anyway, I am assuming you are referring to all prostitution and not just "High class" escorts.

            So everything else apart from that ilk is fair game? What about something a bit more subtle like working in an office/factory with lots of men and she in unable to control her gaze or perhaps having friendly lunches with male colleagues or one in particular. Would that be okay? because in the main this is the likely workplace scenario rather than say swinging from a pole.

            Could it be seen by some as a necessary evil as it's the main place she would likely find a husband and so is perhaps willing to cut the odd corner. I am surprised that this is one of the reasons not given on why some sisters want to go out and work. Perhaps we would not get something so obvious being mentioned on the forum.
            So, just so that we're on the same page here. I said that as long as she isn't doing anything haram, then why do I care what women choose to do. And your reply is, "Everything is haram. The moment a sister walks outside it's haram."

            If this is your view, then we'll have to agree to disagree. If it's not your view, then I don't understand how you don't get the concept of what is haram and what isn't haram. These are basic tenants of one's faith, akhi.

            This truly seems like you're just looking for problems to say, "A-ha! You're wrong and everything about you is wrong!" Even though you're clearly not reading my posts. Perhaps it would be better if a brother came on here and explained what the concept of haram.
            مَّن ذَا الَّذِي يُقْرِضُ اللّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا فَيُضَاعِفَهُ لَهُ أَضْعَافًا كَثِيرَةً وَاللّهُ يَقْبِضُ وَيَبْسُطُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ

            "Who is he that will loan to Allah a beautiful loan, which Allah will double unto his credit and multiply many times?
            It is Allah that giveth (you) Want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return."
            Surah al-Baqarah
            [2:245]

            .:.
            .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
            Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

            .:.
            ...said the spider to the fly...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post

              So, just so that we're on the same page here. I said that as long as she isn't doing anything haram, then why do I care what women choose to do. And your reply is, "Everything is haram. The moment a sister walks outside it's haram."

              If this is your view, then we'll have to agree to disagree. If it's not your view, then I don't understand how you don't get the concept of what is haram and what isn't haram. These are basic tenants of one's faith, akhi.

              This truly seems like you're just looking for problems to say, "A-ha! You're wrong and everything about you is wrong!" Even though you're clearly not reading my posts. Perhaps it would be better if a brother came on here and explained what the concept of haram.
              That's not my view, you just made that up!

              Just so that we are on the same page the scenario I put forward is okay in your view or not? It's a more likely scenario that your stripper example, right?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by zi-zizou View Post

                That's not my view, you just made that up!
                What is your view them?

                Just so that we are on the same page the scenario I put forward is okay in your view or not? It's a more likely scenario that your stripper example, right?
                You asked for haram jobs and I gave a couple of examples. I answered your question....now please answer mine on what is haram.
                مَّن ذَا الَّذِي يُقْرِضُ اللّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا فَيُضَاعِفَهُ لَهُ أَضْعَافًا كَثِيرَةً وَاللّهُ يَقْبِضُ وَيَبْسُطُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ

                "Who is he that will loan to Allah a beautiful loan, which Allah will double unto his credit and multiply many times?
                It is Allah that giveth (you) Want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return."
                Surah al-Baqarah
                [2:245]

                .:.
                .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
                Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

                .:.
                ...said the spider to the fly...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post
                  What is your view them?


                  You asked for haram jobs and I gave a couple of examples. I answered your question....now please answer mine on what is haram.
                  You did not answer my common scenario question.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by zi-zizou View Post

                    You did not answer my common scenario question.
                    I've already answered multiple questions that you've posed. Please answer this one. What is a haram job for a sister? And answer another one I asked way back in the earlier pages, "If your wife doesn't work, then why do you care about what other sisters do with their lives?"
                    مَّن ذَا الَّذِي يُقْرِضُ اللّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا فَيُضَاعِفَهُ لَهُ أَضْعَافًا كَثِيرَةً وَاللّهُ يَقْبِضُ وَيَبْسُطُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ

                    "Who is he that will loan to Allah a beautiful loan, which Allah will double unto his credit and multiply many times?
                    It is Allah that giveth (you) Want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return."
                    Surah al-Baqarah
                    [2:245]

                    .:.
                    .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
                    Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

                    .:.
                    ...said the spider to the fly...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post

                      I've already answered multiple questions that you've posed. Please answer this one. What is a haram job for a sister? And answer another one I asked way back in the earlier pages, "If your wife doesn't work, then why do you care about what other sisters do with their lives?"
                      But this scenario is very pertinent to your thread. Because it shows (or would if you ever got round to answering it) that the job could be halal but the behaviour of the person may make it such that they should not be working there.

                      Your second question is also answered above.

                      Can I dig out some way back questions and ask you to answer them too?

                      Comment


                      • Assalamu Alaikum, I don't mean to get involved in this but i think zi-zizou is referring to jobs that are indirectly haraam (having some components of haraam) whilst Pippin1376 is more focused on jobs that are directly haraam like the examples she gave. However, The best place for a woman is her home as stated in the following:

                        The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Woman is ‘awrah, and if she goes out, the shaytaan raises his hopes (of misguiding her). She is never closer to Allaah than when she stays in her house.” [Narrated by Ibn Hibbaan and Ibn Khuzaymah; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Shaheehah, no. 2688]

                        Abu Ahwas from Abdullaah who said that the Messenger (salallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) said: “The women is object of concealment, when she leaves the house, Shaytaan (the Devil) beautifies her” [Tirmidhi 1173, Ibn Khuzaymah 1685-1687, Tabaraani 10/132, Abdur-Razaak 5116, authenticated Sahih by Shaykh Al-Albaani in Sunan of At-Tirmidhi 1173]

                        It was narrated that Umm Humayd the wife of Abu Humayd al-Saa’idi came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said, “O Messenger of Allaah, I like to pray with you.” He said, “I know that you like to pray with me, but your prayer in your room is better for you than your prayer in your courtyard and your prayer in your courtyard is better for you than your praying in your house, and your prayer in your house is better for you than your prayer in the mosque of your people, and your prayer in the mosque of your people is better for you than your prayer in my mosque.” So she issued orders that a prayer-place be prepared for her in the furthest and darkest part of her house, and she used to pray there until she met Allaah (i.e., died).” (Narrated by Ahmad, 26550).
                        This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Ibn Khuzaymah in his Saheeh, 3/95; Ibn Maajah, 5/595; al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Targheeb wa’l-Tarheeb, 1/135

                        "And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance.” Qur'an [al-Ahzaab 33:33]. (For those who claim this only apply's to the Prophet's wives, Allah says, do not speak softly or display yourselves like the time of ignorance before and after this ayah. So should the believing woman speak softly and display themselves and commit tabarujj because they "aren't the prophet's wives?" Tafsir Ibn Kathir cleared that this applies to all of the believing woman. Rasullulah sallallahu alaihi wassalam wasn't like other believing men, yet we are encouraged to follow him. Similarly, though the wives of the prophet aren't like believing women because they are much more chaste, we are encouraged to follow them. As Prophet Muhammad alaihi salatu wa salaam said:

                        "I am leaving that which if you hold onto you will never go astray: the book of Allah and my Ahlul Bayt, and they will never separate until they reach me at the fountain so watch how you deal with them. (Sahih al-Tirmidhi)
                        Ahlul bayt includes the prophets wives, as they are members of his household so we are encouraged to follow them.

                        It is also supported by the hadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There are three, do not ask me about them: a man who leaves the jamaa’ah, disobeys his leader and dies disobedient; a female or male slave who runs away then dies; and a woman whose husband is absent and left her with everything she needs, and after he left she made a wanton display of herself. Do not ask about them.”
                        (Narrated by al-Haakim, 1/119; Ahmad, 6/19; from the hadeeth of Faddaalah bint ‘Ubayd. Its isnaad is saheeh and it is in al-Adab al-Mufrad).

                        Narrated by Ibn ‘Umar: Allah’s Apostle said: “Do not prevent women (wives, mothers, daughters, sisters, etc) from (praying at) mosques. Yet, their prayer at home is better (for them).”


                        From the above, one can infer that it is much better for a woman to stay at home. A woman should not work just to work as the shari'a states that a woman should only go out when there is a necessity to protect against fitna and to preserve her imaan and the imaan of the believing men. However, not all women are married, their husband may have died, fallen ill, divorced, or the income may not be enough. Since this falls under necessity, the sharia allows a woman to work as long as she does not engage in any haram DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY. She should find a job where she will be able to maintain her daily salaah, have minimum or no contact at all with men, and will not be forced to compromise on her hijab. If she is required to be in the same room with men alone, her boss does not allow her to pray, or she is not allowed to wear the sharia legislated hijab (which means no makeup/beautification as hijab with makeup is an oxymoron) it is haraam for her to work there because the laws of Allah Ta'ala apply to everyone and no one is exempt. And if she continues to work there, whatever money she receives will be deprived of any barakah, and she will be left feeling poorer than she originally was since she has disobeyed the All-Wise and All-Knowing, overlooking that Allah is the Giver of Money in the first place . “And whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty). And He will provide him from (sources) he never could imagine.” [al-Talaq 65:2-3]

                        Obedience to Allah brings provision so race in obedience to your Lord, and do not disobey him, as sin brings poverty. A person may be deprived of provision because of the sins that he commits or the past sins that he has committed. Nothing brings provision like doing acts of obedience and avoiding sins.

                        (Also for those who bring up Khadija radiallahu anha, saying that she worked, she employed people to work for her, on her behalf. She was a businesswoman and she stopped working once she married the Prophet Muhammad alaihi salatu wa salaam. None of the prophet's wives used to work after marriage, but that doesn't mean that it is haraam to work in dire situations provided the above guidelines are followed.)
                        Last edited by Umm Hamasa; 11-02-19, 07:43 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Umm Hamasa View Post
                          Assalamu Alaikum, I don't mean to get involved in this but i think zi-zizou is referring to jobs that are indirectly haraam (having some components of haraam) whilst Pippin1376 is more focused on jobs that are directly haraam like the examples she gave. However, The best place for a woman is her home as stated in the following:

                          The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Woman is ‘awrah, and if she goes out, the shaytaan raises his hopes (of misguiding her). She is never closer to Allaah than when she stays in her house.” [Narrated by Ibn Hibbaan and Ibn Khuzaymah; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Shaheehah, no. 2688]

                          Abu Ahwas from Abdullaah who said that the Messenger (salallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) said: “The women is object of concealment, when she leaves the house, Shaytaan (the Devil) beautifies her” [Tirmidhi 1173, Ibn Khuzaymah 1685-1687, Tabaraani 10/132, Abdur-Razaak 5116, authenticated Sahih by Shaykh Al-Albaani in Sunan of At-Tirmidhi 1173]

                          It was narrated that Umm Humayd the wife of Abu Humayd al-Saa’idi came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said, “O Messenger of Allaah, I like to pray with you.” He said, “I know that you like to pray with me, but your prayer in your room is better for you than your prayer in your courtyard and your prayer in your courtyard is better for you than your praying in your house, and your prayer in your house is better for you than your prayer in the mosque of your people, and your prayer in the mosque of your people is better for you than your prayer in my mosque.” So she issued orders that a prayer-place be prepared for her in the furthest and darkest part of her house, and she used to pray there until she met Allaah (i.e., died).” (Narrated by Ahmad, 26550).
                          This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Ibn Khuzaymah in his Saheeh, 3/95; Ibn Maajah, 5/595; al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Targheeb wa’l-Tarheeb, 1/135

                          "And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance.” Qur'an [al-Ahzaab 33:33]. (For those who claim this only apply's to the Prophet's wives, Allah says, do not speak softly or display yourselves like the time of ignorance before and after this ayah. So should the believing woman speak softly and display themselves and commit tabarujj because they "aren't the prophet's wives?" Tafsir Ibn Kathir cleared that this applies to all of the believing woman. Rasullulah sallallahu alaihi wassalam wasn't like other believing men, yet we are encouraged to follow him. Similarly, though the wives of the prophet aren't like believing women because they are much more chaste, we are encouraged to follow them. As Prophet Muhammad alaihi salatu wa salaam said:

                          "I am leaving that which if you hold onto you will never go astray: the book of Allah and my Ahlul Bayt, and they will never separate until they reach me at the fountain so watch how you deal with them. (Sahih al-Tirmidhi)
                          Ahlul bayt includes the prophets wives, as they are members of his household so we are encouraged to follow them.

                          It is also supported by the hadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There are three, do not ask me about them: a man who leaves the jamaa’ah, disobeys his leader and dies disobedient; a female or male slave who runs away then dies; and a woman whose husband is absent and left her with everything she needs, and after he left she made a wanton display of herself. Do not ask about them.”
                          (Narrated by al-Haakim, 1/119; Ahmad, 6/19; from the hadeeth of Faddaalah bint ‘Ubayd. Its isnaad is saheeh and it is in al-Adab al-Mufrad).

                          Narrated by Ibn ‘Umar: Allah’s Apostle said: “Do not prevent women (wives, mothers, daughters, sisters, etc) from (praying at) mosques. Yet, their prayer at home is better (for them).”


                          From the above, one can infer that it is much better for a woman to stay at home. A woman should not work just to work as the shari'a states that a woman should only go out when there is a necessity to protect against fitna and to preserve her imaan and the imaan of the believing men. However, not all women are married, their husband may have died, fallen ill, divorced, or the income may not be enough. Since this falls under necessity, the sharia allows a woman to work as long as she does not engage in any haram DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY. She should find a job where she will be able to maintain her daily salaah, have minimum or no contact at all with men, and will not be forced to compromise on her hijab. If she is required to be in the same room with men alone, her boss does not allow her to pray, or she is not allowed to wear the sharia legislated hijab (which means no makeup/beautification as hijab with makeup is an oxymoron) it is haraam for her to work there because the laws of Allah Ta'ala apply to everyone and no one is exempt. And if she continues to work there, whatever money she receives will be deprived of any barakah, and she will be left feeling poorer than she originally was since she has disobeyed the All-Wise and All-Knowing, overlooking that Allah is the Giver of Money in the first place . “And whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty). And He will provide him from (sources) he never could imagine.” [al-Talaq 65:2-3]

                          Obedience to Allah brings provision so race in obedience to your Lord, and do not disobey him, as sin brings poverty. A person may be deprived of provision because of the sins that he commits or the past sins that he has committed. Nothing brings provision like doing acts of obedience and avoiding sins.
                          I have mentioned traveling, necessity, dress code, mixing with men, lowering gaze, listening to the husband...she is not going there because she is worried of "exposing" herself. If she continues on form she will ignore this comment and my previous one.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by zi-zizou View Post

                            I have mentioned traveling, necessity, dress code, mixing with men, lowering gaze, listening to the husband...she is not going there because she is worried of "exposing" herself. If she continues on form she will ignore this comment and my previous one.
                            I believe you have good intentions but Allah guides whom he wills. Explain respectfully with evidence and leave the rest to Allah Ta'ala. This is a general rule. We can't convince anyone of anything. Do not waste your time arguing with people because whatever good deeds you would have acquired by stating what is legislated in the sharia will become nullified if you start to argue. Keep your good deeds, and always be respectful especially in your speech with women, as women are verbal so even if you say the right thing, if you say it the wrong way, they will not hear a thing you're saying.

                            I will try to speak tomorrow about exactly why Islam encourages women to stay at home and the detrimental effects it can have on children when their mother is at work all day and they are tossed into the care of someone else that may not uphold the same Islamic values. (daycares, nanny, etc) Or when they're slightly older and stay at home without anyone monitoring them (overuse of social media, access to pornography, etc.) No promises though, as tomorrow is never promised and a Muslim never breaks his promises.... but if Allah gives me life, I will do my best. :)
                            Last edited by Umm Hamasa; 11-02-19, 08:06 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Umm Hamasa View Post

                              I believe you have good intentions but Allah guides whom he wills. Explain respectfully with evidence and leave the rest to Allah Ta'ala. This is a general rule. We can't convince anyone of anything. Do not waste your time arguing with people because whatever good deeds you would have acquired by stating what is legislated in the sharia will become nullified if you start to argue. Keep your good deeds, and always be respectful especially in your speech with women, as women are verbal so even if you say the right thing, if you say it the wrong way, they will not hear a thing you're saying.

                              I will try to speak tomorrow about exactly why Islam encourages women to stay at home and the detrimental effects it can have on children when their mother is at work all day and they are tossed into the care of someone else that may not uphold the same Islamic values. (daycares, nanny, etc) Or when they're slightly older and stay at home without anyone monitoring them (overuse of social media, access to pornography, etc.) No promises though, as tomorrow is never promised and a Muslim never breaks his promises.... but if Allah gives me life, I will do my best. :)
                              You may just be told that the father can stay at home and look after the children. After all the wife earns more and it's all about the money.

                              We live in a society where women are told they can do whatever they want and many sisters have lapped this up. This is evident by the responses in this thread where very few comments by those that are working have shown the necessity to work.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by zi-zizou View Post

                                You may just be told that the father can stay at home and look after the children. After all the wife earns more and it's all about the money.

                                We live in a society where women are told they can do whatever they want and many sisters have lapped this up. This is evident by the responses in this thread where very few comments by those that are working have shown the necessity to work.
                                Cheer up zi-zizou...be kind to your Muslim sisters and do not assume badly of them. Indeed, much negative assumption is a sin. Allah created men and women in pairs not to hate each other but to comfort each other and complete one another in the deen so that they may by Allah's mercy, enter paradise. And our beloved Prophet Muhammad alaihi salatu wa salaam said: "The best amongst you are those who are best to your wives."

                                Comment

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