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Sisters who work - Why do you do it instead of staying at home?

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  • Originally posted by zi-zizou View Post
    You mentioned stay at home dads. I asked how many brothers you knew that fell into this category. You bring stuff into the discussion and I'm asking for clarification to try and determine how valid I think it is to the discussion. But again you passed up on answering, that's not my fault is it? I don't know of any stay at home dads and I doubt very few brothers will be stay at home dads so to me it's a western view that you seem to try and shoehorn into the discussion. It adds nothing.
    I don't know a stay at home dad, but I've read articles about how it's not that unusual to see one every so often. With job markets changing and more women entering the workplace and technological advancements increasing, men have to compete with new factors in order to secure a job. So, it's only logical to assume that for some households, the woman will end up being the caregiver since she has stable job with better benefits.

    I'm pretty sure I expanded on this back on page 7

    Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post
    Not more women working, but the job market changing is what is going to change the household dynamic. Men use to do more manual labour jobs and their families were comfortable living that way, but with the rise of women entering the workforce and robots and technology changing the landscape, they have to find different fields to get into. So now men have to compete with women and technology to find jobs to provide for their family. More competition means that the women they are up against may get higher paying or more secure jobs instead of them. If that happens, then it's only natural to assume that it won't be all that rare to find a stay at home dad. It won't be the norm, but it won't be rare.

    How that will change in 10 to 20 years, Allahu 'Alam.
    So while it's rare now, due to how society views men who are not the breadwinners. Things are kind of changing. Just like how men are demanding paternity leave now to take care of their kids once they're born.

    I brought it up just to see brother's views on it, because if a sister is working in a good paying job and her husband isn't then what will happen when she gets pregnant.


    By your own admission you said I did not bring in feminist or liberal so clearly you are clutching at straws.
    I see.

    If you read the reasons of why sisters are struggling to find a partner later in life you will see it's not all down to looking down on sisters, let's not play the victim card so quickly. Have a good read first.[/QUOTE]
    And I've said time and time again that the blame lies on our society and culture more than anything.
    مَّن ذَا الَّذِي يُقْرِضُ اللّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا فَيُضَاعِفَهُ لَهُ أَضْعَافًا كَثِيرَةً وَاللّهُ يَقْبِضُ وَيَبْسُطُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ

    "Who is he that will loan to Allah a beautiful loan, which Allah will double unto his credit and multiply many times?
    It is Allah that giveth (you) Want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return."
    Surah al-Baqarah
    [2:245]

    .:.
    .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
    Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

    .:.
    ...said the spider to the fly...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post

      I don't know a stay at home dad, but I've read articles about how it's not that unusual to see one every so often. With job markets changing and more women entering the workplace and technological advancements increasing, men have to compete with new factors in order to secure a job. So, it's only logical to assume that for some households, the woman will end up being the caregiver since she has stable job with better benefits.

      I'm pretty sure I expanded on this back on page 7



      So while it's rare now, due to how society views men who are not the breadwinners. Things are kind of changing. Just like how men are demanding paternity leave now to take care of their kids once they're born.

      I brought it up just to see brother's views on it, because if a sister is working in a good paying job and her husband isn't then what will happen when she gets pregnant.



      I see.

      If you read the reasons of why sisters are struggling to find a partner later in life you will see it's not all down to looking down on sisters, let's not play the victim card so quickly. Have a good read first.
      And I've said time and time again that the blame lies on our society and culture more than anything.
      [/QUOTE]

      Why are you assuming men are not adapting to the technical advancements? Do you really think a 20 something male entering the jobs market today is not aware of the markets they are entering? What are women doing that men are not? I don't understand how you are coming to these conclusions.

      Her money is her own, whether she makes more or less makes no difference. What will happen if the husband says I want you to stop working, we will make do on my salary. The end. Will the wife obey or rebel? What are her (non western) options?

      I know what you are saying time and time again. But stop and listen to the women themselves. They too have a say on who they marry and they are rejecting just as much as they are being rejected. Why not do the search as I suggested instead of repeating yourself. You might learn something new.


      Comment


      • Originally posted by zi-zizou View Post
        Why are you assuming men are not adapting to the technical advancements? Do you really think a 20 something male entering the jobs market today is not aware of the markets they are entering? What are women doing that men are not? I don't understand how you are coming to these conclusions.
        I'll try to break it down for you:

        Men are the breadwinners so men are the only ones working
        • There's some competition for jobs, but you'll still get something just because the company needs people. (This is men in general, because obviously there were racist movements back then when it came to those of colour entering the workforce. I'm just over simplifying things here)
        Women are now entering the work field
        • With the other half of the popular coming into the job-sphere companies are now faced with even more people who can work for them. This provides even more competition for men who are the main breadwinners, because some of those men will be passed by women.
        Technological advancements are bring in robots and AIs
        • Men now have to compete for jobs from not only other men, but women too. The job market is changing and robots are taking over as well, which means there are less opportunities available.
        Just for fun here's another thing, Baby Boomers not leaving their job because of our messed up society
        • Younger males now have to compete with their older more experienced counterparts, along with women and technology to find work. This is making it harder and harder with some new graduates having to work in jobs that are not related to their education.

        Does that make sense. I'm not saying that these men are not aware, I'm just saying that they're facing more and more competition than their older counterparts due to how our society has changed. This change made it acceptable for women to work and for technology to flourish. That comment wasn't a slight towards men, just how the job markets are changing so it's only logical to assume that for some the women will end up being the breadwinner instead of the man.

        Let me know if I have to expand on this more.

        Her money is her own, whether she makes more or less makes no difference. What will happen if the husband says I want you to stop working, we will make do on my salary. The end. Will the wife obey or rebel? What are her (non western) options?
        The husband is more than allowed to ask this of his wife, but if she's making more money and his paycheck can't support his family then it seems like this demand is based on ego. The husband is the ameer and should be followed, but he can't be a dictator just because his ego is hurt. If the sister makes more, then the couple should work together to find a solution to their problem. Perhaps they can hire a nanny or take their child to daycare while both work.

        This has nothing to do with western thinking. I'm just presenting one scenario, just like you've presented that Muslim women can't get married because they're career women and spinsters.

        I know what you are saying time and time again. But stop and listen to the women themselves. They too have a say on who they marry and they are rejecting just as much as they are being rejected. Why not do the search as I suggested instead of repeating yourself. You might learn something new.
        This reminds me of a certain story about a pot calling out a kettle's dark complexion. Have you heard of the story?
        مَّن ذَا الَّذِي يُقْرِضُ اللّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا فَيُضَاعِفَهُ لَهُ أَضْعَافًا كَثِيرَةً وَاللّهُ يَقْبِضُ وَيَبْسُطُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ

        "Who is he that will loan to Allah a beautiful loan, which Allah will double unto his credit and multiply many times?
        It is Allah that giveth (you) Want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return."
        Surah al-Baqarah
        [2:245]

        .:.
        .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
        Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

        .:.
        ...said the spider to the fly...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post

          I'll try to break it down for you:

          Men are the breadwinners so men are the only ones working
          • There's some competition for jobs, but you'll still get something just because the company needs people. (This is men in general, because obviously there were racist movements back then when it came to those of colour entering the workforce. I'm just over simplifying things here)
          Women are now entering the work field
          • With the other half of the popular coming into the job-sphere companies are now faced with even more people who can work for them. This provides even more competition for men who are the main breadwinners, because some of those men will be passed by women.
          Technological advancements are bring in robots and AIs
          • Men now have to compete for jobs from not only other men, but women too. The job market is changing and robots are taking over as well, which means there are less opportunities available.
          Just for fun here's another thing, Baby Boomers not leaving their job because of our messed up society
          • Younger males now have to compete with their older more experienced counterparts, along with women and technology to find work. This is making it harder and harder with some new graduates having to work in jobs that are not related to their education.

          Does that make sense. I'm not saying that these men are not aware, I'm just saying that they're facing more and more competition than their older counterparts due to how our society has changed. This change made it acceptable for women to work and for technology to flourish. That comment wasn't a slight towards men, just how the job markets are changing so it's only logical to assume that for some the women will end up being the breadwinner instead of the man.

          Let me know if I have to expand on this more.


          The husband is more than allowed to ask this of his wife, but if she's making more money and his paycheck can't support his family then it seems like this demand is based on ego. The husband is the ameer and should be followed, but he can't be a dictator just because his ego is hurt. If the sister makes more, then the couple should work together to find a solution to their problem. Perhaps they can hire a nanny or take their child to daycare while both work.

          This has nothing to do with western thinking. I'm just presenting one scenario, just like you've presented that Muslim women can't get married because they're career women and spinsters.


          This reminds me of a certain story about a pot calling out a kettle's dark complexion. Have you heard of the story?
          1. Women have been in the workplace for a while now, it's not new, men have been managing just fine with this.
          2. Major advancements in the workplace happen in cycles. People adapt and manage. This is normal.
          3. Young males have to compete with older men, yes. Women also face the same challenge.
          4. Muslim women face challenges entering and saying in the workplace more so than non Muslim women. You are looking at women in general but this discussion is specific to Muslim women right? There will be many jobs that Muslim women will avoid for a multitude of reasons.
          5. Baby boomers are not able to handle the tech, don't worry about them.

          You are not telling me anything I don't already know. But if you have more feel free to expand. It's only a google search away.

          No the husband is level headed and has considered everything and after much deliberation has concluded as the head of the family he wants his wife to stop working and that they will manage on his salary alone. Does the wife have to obey him? [I don't expect you to answer this, I know it's painful]

          You don't have to do the search and read what women themselves have to say. You can stick to your narrative that's fine. Oh wait you have your head in the sand. *shrugs*

          Comment


          • Originally posted by zi-zizou View Post

            1. Women have been in the workplace for a while now, it's not new, men have been managing just fine with this.
            2. Major advancements in the workplace happen in cycles. People adapt and manage. This is normal.
            3. Young males have to compete with older men, yes. Women also face the same challenge.
            4. Muslim women face challenges entering and saying in the workplace more so than non Muslim women. You are looking at women in general but this discussion is specific to Muslim women right? There will be many jobs that Muslim women will avoid for a multitude of reasons.
            5. Baby boomers are not able to handle the tech, don't worry about them.

            You are not telling me anything I don't already know. But if you have more feel free to expand. It's only a google search away.

            No the husband is level headed and has considered everything and after much deliberation has concluded as the head of the family he wants his wife to stop working and that they will manage on his salary alone. Does the wife have to obey him? [I don't expect you to answer this, I know it's painful]

            You don't have to do the search and read what women themselves have to say. You can stick to your narrative that's fine. Oh wait you have your head in the sand. *shrugs*
            Click image for larger version

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Views:	1
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            Let's just agree to misunderstand and leave it at that.

            مَّن ذَا الَّذِي يُقْرِضُ اللّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا فَيُضَاعِفَهُ لَهُ أَضْعَافًا كَثِيرَةً وَاللّهُ يَقْبِضُ وَيَبْسُطُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ

            "Who is he that will loan to Allah a beautiful loan, which Allah will double unto his credit and multiply many times?
            It is Allah that giveth (you) Want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return."
            Surah al-Baqarah
            [2:245]

            .:.
            .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
            Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

            .:.
            ...said the spider to the fly...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post

              Click image for larger version

Name:	relax.gif
Views:	1
Size:	37.9 KB
ID:	12601072

              Let's just agree to misunderstand and leave it at that.
              where do u find these gifs and how do u add them

              Comment


              • I don't like the very out of date label spinsters' (zi-zizou used this word in one of his post)

                I would request Muslim brothers not to use it

                Is there a word in our religion that labels older women who are not destined to marry or have children?

                As far as I know there isn't one because calling someone spinster is rude. It's outcasting and alienating them as if they have done something wrong.

                Would you call a sister 'oi spinster, you alright'

                It's disrespectful and not all women are delaying marriage due to careers.

                I never delayed my marriage due to education or careers and I got married in my late twenties. My parents were not obsessed with me getting a degree or chasing a career. They were not obsessed with boasting to others about me.

                ​​​​​​All the people we came across WANTED a girl with a career and degree otherwise you would be seen as lacking.
                i see this all the time with matchmaking, it's the same story with the men that claim to be religious too.

                Sisters don't always have to justify themselves, are we not allowed to accept that it is qadr and not because they are chasing the world?

                Some are, some are not.

                It will not help if we follow non Muslims who always put a lot of pressure on their women.

                Unfortunately, the men today are putting the same pressure on our women. There is no support, just constant criticism and no leadership skills.

                Don't use spinster, it doesn't suit us Muslims, we don't make Muslim women feel like they are worthless. This is what society does then you have women doing more than they should just to prove they can do it all.

                If a brother is single in his fourties, what do Muslims call him? A brother, there is no need for insulting labels







                'Whatever it be wherein ye differ, the decision thereof is with Allah: such is Allah my Lord: In Him I trust, and to Him I turn.' The Holy Qu'ran Al Shura (Consultation)

                So, which of the favours of your lord will you deny? ~ Surah Ar Rahman

                Comment


                • A man SHOULD have the desire to provide for his family
                  he should be the Hunter and not rely on his wife to provide while he is home in Pardah

                  Unless he is in a very difficult situation




                  ​​​​​​
                  'Whatever it be wherein ye differ, the decision thereof is with Allah: such is Allah my Lord: In Him I trust, and to Him I turn.' The Holy Qu'ran Al Shura (Consultation)

                  So, which of the favours of your lord will you deny? ~ Surah Ar Rahman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ya'sin View Post
                    A man SHOULD have the desire to provide for his family
                    he should be the Hunter and not rely on his wife to provide while he is home in Pardah

                    Unless he is in a very difficult situation




                    ​​​​​​
                    hunter lol

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ya'sin View Post
                      I don't like the very out of date label spinsters' (zi-zizou used this word in one of his post)

                      I would request Muslim brothers not to use it

                      Is there a word in our religion that labels older women who are not destined to marry or have children?

                      As far as I know there isn't one because calling someone spinster is rude. It's outcasting and alienating them as if they have done something wrong.

                      Would you call a sister 'oi spinster, you alright'

                      It's disrespectful and not all women are delaying marriage due to careers.

                      I never delayed my marriage due to education or careers and I got married in my late twenties. My parents were not obsessed with me getting a degree or chasing a career. They were not obsessed with boasting to others about me.

                      ​​​​​​All the people we came across WANTED a girl with a career and degree otherwise you would be seen as lacking.
                      i see this all the time with matchmaking, it's the same story with the men that claim to be religious too.

                      Sisters don't always have to justify themselves, are we not allowed to accept that it is qadr and not because they are chasing the world?

                      Some are, some are not.

                      It will not help if we follow non Muslims who always put a lot of pressure on their women.

                      Unfortunately, the men today are putting the same pressure on our women. There is no support, just constant criticism and no leadership skills.

                      Don't use spinster, it doesn't suit us Muslims, we don't make Muslim women feel like they are worthless. This is what society does then you have women doing more than they should just to prove they can do it all.

                      If a brother is single in his fourties, what do Muslims call him? A brother, there is no need for insulting labels






                      people should stop using this cv groupchat system

                      and just do old way using family connections going to masjid and asking people

                      religious people tend to not care about degrees and the material stuff

                      Comment


                      • well salafis dont

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post

                          Click image for larger version

Name:	relax.gif
Views:	1
Size:	37.9 KB
ID:	12601072

                          Let's just agree to misunderstand and leave it at that.
                          Why not answer this?...

                          "No the husband is level headed and has considered everything and after much deliberation has concluded as the head of the family he wants his wife to stop working and that they will manage on his salary alone. Does the wife have to obey him?"

                          Do you see now why I say you avoid the questions?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ya'sin View Post
                            I don't like the very out of date label spinsters' (zi-zizou used this word in one of his post)

                            I would request Muslim brothers not to use it

                            Is there a word in our religion that labels older women who are not destined to marry or have children?

                            As far as I know there isn't one because calling someone spinster is rude. It's outcasting and alienating them as if they have done something wrong.

                            Would you call a sister 'oi spinster, you alright'

                            It's disrespectful and not all women are delaying marriage due to careers.

                            I never delayed my marriage due to education or careers and I got married in my late twenties. My parents were not obsessed with me getting a degree or chasing a career. They were not obsessed with boasting to others about me.

                            ​​​​​​All the people we came across WANTED a girl with a career and degree otherwise you would be seen as lacking.
                            i see this all the time with matchmaking, it's the same story with the men that claim to be religious too.

                            Sisters don't always have to justify themselves, are we not allowed to accept that it is qadr and not because they are chasing the world?

                            Some are, some are not.

                            It will not help if we follow non Muslims who always put a lot of pressure on their women.

                            Unfortunately, the men today are putting the same pressure on our women. There is no support, just constant criticism and no leadership skills.

                            Don't use spinster, it doesn't suit us Muslims, we don't make Muslim women feel like they are worthless. This is what society does then you have women doing more than they should just to prove they can do it all.

                            If a brother is single in his fourties, what do Muslims call him? A brother, there is no need for insulting labels






                            I don't use the word spinster...It's how the article I read describes it, so in order to find the same articles you need to use those search terms.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

                              people should stop using this cv groupchat system

                              and just do old way using family connections going to masjid and asking people

                              religious people tend to not care about degrees and the material stuff
                              What's the "CV groupchat system"?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

                                What's the "CV groupchat system"?
                                wats app group chats with like 100 people submitting marriage cv's and so u see someone's cv and then go with talks

                                Comment

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