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  • #31
    Originally posted by samin62 View Post
    I dont necessarily think there is anything wrong with the chase. Men generally like to compete and one uo each other.

    I think more and more women realizing that isnt a good lifestyle to develop a family. Women generally are more aggreeable and isnt as competitive. The ones that chase almost always regret it as they get older
    Women can be difficult to work with.

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    • #32
      As long as you have your career, you'll get your status and no one will have anything to say about you.

      If you don't have a career then you will bashed for it and seen as a loser.

      This is common with Muslims. Whether man or woman, you're not worthy of respect or acknowledgement if you aren't earning money, preferably in a professional environment.

      The more 'wow' your job is, the more your status goes up so if you are a doctor you're the higesht of them all.

      ​​​​​​This is the social hierarchy.

      Some people chase careers because it gives them fulfilment and makes their position in society firm. They can feel better about themselves and look down on those who simply earn for a living or those who have 'nothing' aka money or a career to make them important enough.

      'Whatever it be wherein ye differ, the decision thereof is with Allah: such is Allah my Lord: In Him I trust, and to Him I turn.' The Holy Qu'ran Al Shura (Consultation)

      So, which of the favours of your lord will you deny? ~ Surah Ar Rahman

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      • #33
        I read an article about career minded women in Mongolia

        They're struggling to get married because the men aren't educated or earning enough money in a professional job

        It started off with parents sending their daughters off to education because they thought the girls would do a better job which they have but at the expense of remaining single and unable to find someone with a similar background.

        The men were left behind doing the dirty, muddy jobs at the farms which they were better suited for

        Enough to feed the family

        The educated girls with a career are now desperate to settle down, one 37 year old says she doesn't care if he doesn't have a good job or money, as long as he is caring and kind

        'Whatever it be wherein ye differ, the decision thereof is with Allah: such is Allah my Lord: In Him I trust, and to Him I turn.' The Holy Qu'ran Al Shura (Consultation)

        So, which of the favours of your lord will you deny? ~ Surah Ar Rahman

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        • #34
          You can have a career but you can't have it all or can you

          ​​​​​​
          'Whatever it be wherein ye differ, the decision thereof is with Allah: such is Allah my Lord: In Him I trust, and to Him I turn.' The Holy Qu'ran Al Shura (Consultation)

          So, which of the favours of your lord will you deny? ~ Surah Ar Rahman

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

            Women can be difficult to work with.
            Hmm

            I preferred working with women

            I felt uncomfortable when I had to work with men
            'Whatever it be wherein ye differ, the decision thereof is with Allah: such is Allah my Lord: In Him I trust, and to Him I turn.' The Holy Qu'ran Al Shura (Consultation)

            So, which of the favours of your lord will you deny? ~ Surah Ar Rahman

            Comment


            • #36
              Never worked with men. But doubt it would be any better.

              I had that nasty experience with some sisters last year (if you remember?) - scarred me for life.

              (Yes a bit over dramatic, but since I'm getting older, I can't tolerate things as much, don't really have the patience either).

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              • #37
                Ya'sin - cannot quote you or mention you.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by samin62 View Post
                  I dont necessarily think there is anything wrong with the chase. Men generally like to compete and one uo each other.

                  I think more and more women realizing that isnt a good lifestyle to develop a family. Women generally are more aggreeable and isnt as competitive. The ones that chase almost always regret it as they get older
                  There is nothing wrong with a bit of healthy competition. However, it can problem when competing for dunya related stuff - and careers are usually a long term thing. It's not just a light hearted thing that you don't put much value on.

                  When men go down that route and it's widely accepted as a mark of achievement that demands respect, women will naturally want to follow.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

                    ...Why is - wanting to be recognised for your qualifications/experience - whereby a person receives "status", such a bad thing?
                    Being recognised for a career/qualification if it's at the expense of deen is obviously wrong. When a teacher or doctor or whatever who doesn't really follow the deen but is nonetheless respected by society, it sends the wrong message.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                      Chicken & Chips
                      Yeah go on then! 2 piece please, no drumstick.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Mintchocchip View Post

                        Taxi driver.
                        That won't last.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                          Being recognised for a career/qualification if it's at the expense of deen is obviously wrong. When a teacher or doctor or whatever who doesn't really follow the deen but is nonetheless respected by society, it sends the wrong message.
                          That's an issue for society as a whole.

                          It's also possible to separate the person from the role.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by zi-zizou View Post

                            That's an issue for society as a whole...
                            Yeah, men lead and women follow.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              The issue is not so much career, but rather money. People want more money whether they are CEOs or doctors or clerks or laborers. No one will turn down a free raise. But usually a good raise comes with a promotion, which means increased responsibility. Most people will jump at the chance to get demoted to a lower position without taking a corresponding pay cut. And there is nothing wrong in putting in the effort to increase your income through halal means, although the result is obviously up to Allah.

                              Another issue is that often times people get bored when they are in the same position for some time. They start looking around for other opportunities in order to shake things up and get out of a rut.

                              Status comes with the type of job and level of authority. For example, society dictates that an engineer is worthy of some higher status than a janitor. However, an engineer might be working his tail off to go from Engineer I to Engineer II, but its not going to increase his status in society. He'll still just be introduced as an engineer. Its just for money and to avoid feeling stuck. But if he gets a position as Director, then that will also be a status improvement. Lot of people don't aspire to go that high though because they see the responsibility and stress associated with it.

                              A civil engineering student, for example, usually isn't aiming for a Director position. He just wants to build roads, buildings, etc. But once he gets into that professional job, then he has to keep working at it and securing promotions in order to increase his income. Its not career seeking. Rather its a function of the field of work that a person has selected. He can decide to quit and work as a taxi driver, but the risk of losing a huge chunk of his income is daunting.

                              On the other hand, a business man might be trying various methods of increasing his income. Maybe he'll try different types of advertisements or sales or products. Or maybe he'll try opening a second business in this more busy area, etc. He's also chasing after more income, but since his increase in income isn't tied to some sort of formal progression of responsibilities, he isn't labeled a career seeker.

                              Originally posted by علي View Post

                              I did a work sociology course in University, some random requirement (enjoyed it more than any other course at university though), and yeah people degrade themselves all sorts of ways to get to the next level in their careers sometimes. Not saying a career is necessarily bad, but it does often tie one to specific places for years on end, often with little of their own choice in the matter. They must also conform and compromise in many aspects of their lives in order to maintain the years long relationship, for fear of shattering what they've built. It's a sort of prison really, though I suppose under the right circumstances it can still be pleasant. But those circumstances are probably not going to be available to all.
                              True, but this world is a prison, no? Marriage is a prison for many, kids are a prison for many, school is a prison for many, etc, etc. But with the right intention and actions, it is all khair.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                                Yeah, men lead and women follow.
                                A lot can happen over chicken and chips.

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