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  • #16
    Originally posted by Indefinable View Post
    Define "career chasing", "work", and "professional" - thereafter, the discussion can proceed.
    A father who works but spends time with his children is a man who has a career and works.
    A father who works and could spend time with his family, but feels like he should just provide money and nothing else is a career chaser.
    مَّن ذَا الَّذِي يُقْرِضُ اللّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا فَيُضَاعِفَهُ لَهُ أَضْعَافًا كَثِيرَةً وَاللّهُ يَقْبِضُ وَيَبْسُطُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ

    "Who is he that will loan to Allah a beautiful loan, which Allah will double unto his credit and multiply many times?
    It is Allah that giveth (you) Want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return."
    Surah al-Baqarah
    [2:245]

    .:.
    .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
    Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

    .:.
    ...said the spider to the fly...

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post

      A father who works but spends time with his children is a man who has a career and works.
      A father who works and could spend time with his family, but feels like he should just provide money and nothing else is a career chaser.
      It's not limited to that. A more concerning attitude would be where one seeks 'status' via a career.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

        It's not limited to that. A more concerning attitude would be where one seeks 'status' via a career.
        Hmmm, wouldn't that mostly go towards kids though? With their parents telling them to either be a doctor, engineer or a disgrace?

        A lot of parents came into the country with nothing, so they want their kids to chase after status so they can feel comfortable and not have to struggle as hard as them. But yea, others just want the status of having a child doctor/engineer.
        مَّن ذَا الَّذِي يُقْرِضُ اللّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا فَيُضَاعِفَهُ لَهُ أَضْعَافًا كَثِيرَةً وَاللّهُ يَقْبِضُ وَيَبْسُطُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ

        "Who is he that will loan to Allah a beautiful loan, which Allah will double unto his credit and multiply many times?
        It is Allah that giveth (you) Want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return."
        Surah al-Baqarah
        [2:245]

        .:.
        .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
        Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

        .:.
        ...said the spider to the fly...

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
          The battle for 'equality' is about women being more like men. We always talk about the pitfalls of 'career-minded' women but I believe this is because men have already paved the way.

          Who is to blame? Men, for setting up and promoting the idea of chasing the dunya, or women for copying them...

          It's a lizard-hole.
          Yeah kinda... but no actually I am gonna disagree on this one.

          Look, yes men are somewhat forced (or feel they are anyway) by society to work hard not smart and sometimes just to work hard, because they're not smart because men are the providers, they need to do this and if they don't they are seen as lazy and don't get a wife, or if they do, she might not be that great.

          Stinks, but there it is. Take your choice boys.

          Women don't have these pressures, or at least not as much. They're got different pressures.

          So it's not the same. Similiar but not the same and men do need to try, at least try. Or else you're a waste of space and you don't deserve to get a wife and kids.
          FOLLOW THE NEW BLOG - GINGERBEARDMAN - Muslim, father, husband, writer, defender of ginger rights!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

            As in people defining themselves by their career and using it as a status in society. The idea of career = freedom, independence, and success.

            Quite different from simply earning a living.
            What sort of work is it where this can happen?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post

              Hmmm, wouldn't that mostly go towards kids though? With their parents telling them to either be a doctor, engineer or a disgrace?

              A lot of parents came into the country with nothing, so they want their kids to chase after status so they can feel comfortable and not have to struggle as hard as them. But yea, others just want the status of having a child doctor/engineer.
              There's one of the roots of the problem right there. Muslims migrated en masse to non-Muslim lands and chasing a career is an extension of that.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Gingerbeardman View Post

                Yeah kinda... but no actually I am gonna disagree on this one.

                Look, yes men are somewhat forced (or feel they are anyway) by society to work hard not smart and sometimes just to work hard, because they're not smart because men are the providers, they need to do this and if they don't they are seen as lazy and don't get a wife, or if they do, she might not be that great.

                Stinks, but there it is. Take your choice boys.

                Women don't have these pressures, or at least not as much. They're got different pressures.

                So it's not the same. Similiar but not the same and men do need to try, at least try. Or else you're a waste of space and you don't deserve to get a wife and kids.
                It's not about working but 'career building' where your status or worth in society is defined by your career. Key point: We're talking about the compromises that are made in order to get to the next level in your career.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by zi-zizou View Post

                  What sort of work is it where this can happen?
                  Chicken & Chips

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by zi-zizou View Post

                    What sort of work is it where this can happen?
                    Taxi driver.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                      It's not about working but 'career building' where your status or worth in society is defined by your career. Key point: We're talking about the compromises that are made in order to get to the next level in your career.
                      I did a work sociology course in University, some random requirement (enjoyed it more than any other course at university though), and yeah people degrade themselves all sorts of ways to get to the next level in their careers sometimes. Not saying a career is necessarily bad, but it does often tie one to specific places for years on end, often with little of their own choice in the matter. They must also conform and compromise in many aspects of their lives in order to maintain the years long relationship, for fear of shattering what they've built. It's a sort of prison really, though I suppose under the right circumstances it can still be pleasant. But those circumstances are probably not going to be available to all.
                      والمبادرة إلى التكفير إنما تغلب على طباع من يغلب عليهم الجهل - ابن تيمية رحمه الله - بغية المرتاد

                      "Rushing towards takfir is an attitude which is dominant over those who are defeated by ignorance." - Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullah [Bughyatul Murtaad, page 354]

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by علي View Post

                        I did a work sociology course in University, some random requirement (enjoyed it more than any other course at university though), and yeah people degrade themselves all sorts of ways to get to the next level in their careers sometimes. Not saying a career is necessarily bad, but it does often tie one to specific places for years on end, often with little of their own choice in the matter. They must also conform and compromise in many aspects of their lives in order to maintain the years long relationship, for fear of shattering what they've built. It's a sort of prison really, though I suppose under the right circumstances it can still be pleasant. But those circumstances are probably not going to be available to all.
                        This is why we warn women from going down this path but we praise and celebrate men for doing the same. Again, we're not talking about earning a living.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                          This is why we warn women from going down this path but we praise and celebrate men for doing the same. Again, we're not talking about earning a living.
                          With women it can definitely be potentially worse. Let's say boss decided she needs to move to some far off corner of the land for some project, her family has to be whisked off to that end now (assuming marriage). Doubt husband is gonna appreciate that too much, depending on the situation. In patriarchal societies (which ours typically are), it would be easier for the man to pull something like this off. Still though, wife may not like the sojourn wherever they're going to, or kids. Friends, family, ties, are potentially at risk.

                          I still say I'm not against careers though, really depends on the person's situation. But yeah a career isn't sunshine and rainbows as many may believe. At least not in the average case, some people have careers they love, but again, probably not the majority.
                          والمبادرة إلى التكفير إنما تغلب على طباع من يغلب عليهم الجهل - ابن تيمية رحمه الله - بغية المرتاد

                          "Rushing towards takfir is an attitude which is dominant over those who are defeated by ignorance." - Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullah [Bughyatul Murtaad, page 354]

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by علي View Post
                            ...I still say I'm not against careers though, really depends on the person's situation. But yeah a career isn't sunshine and rainbows as many may believe. At least not in the average case, some people have careers they love, but again, probably not the majority.
                            It has to be said that not all careers carry such risks unless you want them to. There are plenty ways of earning a living but they're usually called 'jobs' instead of 'careers' and don't look all that impressive on a CV.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I dont necessarily think there is anything wrong with the chase. Men generally like to compete and one uo each other.

                              I think more and more women realizing that isnt a good lifestyle to develop a family. Women generally are more aggreeable and isnt as competitive. The ones that chase almost always regret it as they get older
                              "They are Shuhadaa (witnesses) to the fact that this Deen is greater than life, that values are more important than blood and that principles are more precious than souls" - Sheikh 'Abdullah Azzam

                              Lost in Islamic History :inlove:

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                                It's not limited to that. A more concerning attitude would be where one seeks 'status' via a career.
                                Let's take teaching as an example:

                                You have the NQT teacher, who is a newbie.

                                Then you have KS1 team leader. Then medium management, then senior management.

                                Each year - some teachers get a bonus, if they've done extra work.

                                Then you have to get the extra qualifications alongside the more senior positions.

                                It's more of a "well, why not?" rather than, "career chasing".

                                Why is - wanting to be recognised for your qualifications/experience - whereby a person receives "status", such a bad thing?

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