You Said I Was Wrong...

[Ridwaanullah]

You said I was wrong, in a way headstrong,
Blunt, I thought, lacking
in Adab and mercy.
You've done it before - it's true, I've seen it often,
So I shall point it out to you with
Gentle courtesy.

You see, it is not the way of the messenger
That we be harsh in reply,
insensitive.
In my heart I carry the Book and sunnah.
With hikmah it is that I
Intend to give.

Though my knowledge is greater, I can prove it so,
And you should not be foolish
Debating me,
It is advice I give to you with rahmah,
And I too dislike that one be
Debasing me.

I know kinder it would be to advise in private,
But arrogance to the arrogant
Can be his cure.
Yet still, I give with kindness upon sunnah.
From my heart carrying haqq.
Of it I'm sure.

Do I know that the beauty, it was missing.
The rahmah and adab
Apparently too.
Oh slippery nafs, was this my righteousness from a
Heart wishing well,
Or was it...through you?





------------------
(Assalaamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakaatuh.
It's a very difficult thing to be in a disagreement with someone yet address them truly from a place of compassion and rahmah, at least I've found it to be the case with myself. Maybe some day, inshaa'Allah, I will be able to do this as part of a trait of my character, and you will, too. May Allah SWT help us, and pardon us and accept from us what good we try to do.)

[Saif-Uddin]

There used to be people who loved to be corrected, now we see it as an attack, blunt, lacking adab, etc especially if we don't molly coddle people, when speaking the haqq you must remember, we mustn't hurt their feelings!

You say he or she is wrong for X, Y, Z reasons, and you get all sorts of attack arguments.

[ZeeshanParvez]

There used to be people who loved to be corrected, now we see it as an attack, blunt, lacking adab, etc especially if we don't molly coddle people, when speaking the haqq you must remember, we mustn't hurt their feelings!

You say he or she is wrong for X, Y, Z reasons, and you get all sorts of attack arguments.

For a person who reminds others that they should accept the truth you have an issue when reminded you do not follow the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam)

Do you believe you use language in accordance with the Sunnah?

You never answered these questions.

Is it because you know that your attitude is opposition to the Sunnah but find it hard to admit it?

It is alright for you to "correct" people and remind them they have an ego problem when they don't accept your opinion but when reminded of your rude manner and how your attitude opposes the Sunnah, you go to another thread and cry a river?

[ZeeshanParvez]

There used to be people who loved to be corrected, now we see it as an attack, blunt, lacking adab, etc especially if we don't molly coddle people, when speaking the haqq you must remember, we mustn't hurt their feelings!

You say he or she is wrong for X, Y, Z reasons, and you get all sorts of attack arguments.

So, was harshness the way of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) when conveying the truth.

It is such a simple question.


My question to you is very simple



Is this the way of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam)


If you cannot answer the question it will be obvious that your ego has prevented you from accepting the truth.

Which would also cast doubt over your character.

Up until this point I believed I was discussing issues with a sincere person.


But if you cannot admit that your harsh behavior is in opposition to the Sunnah then it is clear that you have lost the way.

Your riyaa and pride have gotten the better of you. Now you will have to wonder what happens to your deeds....

[ZeeshanParvez]

There used to be people who loved to be corrected, now we see it as an attack, blunt, lacking adab, etc especially if we don't molly coddle people, when speaking the haqq you must remember, we mustn't hurt their feelings!

You say he or she is wrong for X, Y, Z reasons, and you get all sorts of attack arguments.

You seem to once again act on misconceived notions.


How many times will you assume why people do what they do. How many times will you put words in their mouths.


We do not tell you do be polite so that you don't hurt peoples' feelings!


We tell you to be polite and gentle because it is the way of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam).

We tell you because the Qur'aan tells us to follow the example of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam)


You don't have a Shiekh who advises you to be harsh do you?

Even if you had such a person, Allah has told you to follow the way of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam)


As for correcting people, that is a must.

This Diin is not anyone's monopoly


Anyone who speaks in regards to Diin puts himself in a position to be corrected.

Anyone and everyone can be and should be corrected.

When we say that the Imaam(s) made mistakes then we as those less in knowledge are only more likely to make mistakes.


Correcting people is something good you do.

Working of misconceived understandings of the others words and the rude manner in which you convey your information is what you need to improve

Now do not let your ego get in the way of accepting this simple reality.

[Saif-Uddin]

You seem to once again act on misconceived notions.


How many times will you assume why people do what they do. How many times will you put words in their mouths.


We do not tell you do be polite so that you don't hurt peoples' feelings!


We tell you to be polite and gentle because it is the way of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam).

We tell you because the Qur'aan tells us to follow the example of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam)


You don't have a Shiekh who advises you to be harsh do you?

Even if you had such a person, Allah has told you to follow the way of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam)


As for correcting people, that is a must.

This Diin is not anyone's monopoly


Anyone who speaks in regards to Diin puts himself in a position to be corrected.

Anyone and everyone can be and should be corrected.

When we say that the Imaam(s) made mistakes then we as those less in knowledge are only more likely to make mistakes.


Correcting people is something good you do.

Working of misconceived understandings of the others words and the rude manner in which you convey your information is what you need to improve

Now do not let your ego get in the way of accepting this simple reality.

Misconceived understanding, yes its a Misconceived understanding when the one being corrected says you harsh, goes on the defence etc, instead of taking constructive criticism.

Facepalm

It was a general post. I don't have ego problems but thank you for reminding me anyway.

[Saif-Uddin]

So, was harshness the way of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) when conveying the truth.

It is such a simple question.


My question to you is very simple



Is this the way of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam)


If you cannot answer the question it will be obvious that your ego has prevented you from accepting the truth.

Which would also cast doubt over your character.

Up until this point I believed I was discussing issues with a sincere person.


But if you cannot admit that your harsh behavior is in opposition to the Sunnah then it is clear that you have lost the way.

Your riyaa and pride have gotten the better of you. Now you will have to wonder what happens to your deeds....

Theres a time and a place for everything,

He صلى الله عليه وعلى آله وسلم was harsh when he needed to be, and soft when he needed to be.

Riya is showing off, correcting someone even "harshly" as you claim does not constitute showing off.

For someone who's supposed to be knowledgeable, I expected better than false accusations.

Pride is rejection of Truth and looking down on people.

I haven't rejected the truth, nor am i looking down on you or the OP, so another false accusation.

Instead of quoting me everywhere and going all out keyboard warrior war, can I suggest you stick to one thread with your arguments or is it too much to ask?

[ZeeshanParvez]

Instead of quoting me everywhere and going all out keyboard warrior war, can I suggest you stick to one thread with your arguments or is it too much to ask?

See this is the problem. You look upon anyone who attempts to correct you as having gone "keyboard warrior." For you the forum is a battlefield.

Usually behavior such as this highlights an underlying psychological problem. Do you have one?

I can assure you I am not here to attack you. Nor am I here to make you look bad. Finally, you do not take to being corrected to well. Is there a reason for that?

For a person who continues on to say I have accused him of things you yourself have just accused me of going keyboard warrior on you.

Double standards?

I haven't rejected the truth, nor am i looking down on you or the OP, so another false accusation.

An accusation is a statement. What I said was in association with an if clause. I said if you do not accept your behavior is opposed to the Sunnah then you are arrogant.

You will have rejected a truth. In that case you are arrogant.

Again you take words and misinterpret them. Then you get hyper. Finally, you see the other person as a threat and have a need to use labels.

Pride is rejection of Truth and looking down on people.

I haven't rejected the truth, nor am i looking down on you or the OP, so another false accusation.

We aren't talking about you and the OP. We are talking about you. We are talking about how you refuse to accept that your behavior is against the Sunnah (if you refuse to accept it).

How you have made a correlation between the OP and you from my words is beyond you.

So, now let's look at the Sunnah. But before we do that please remember I am not here to live up to your expectations. If you are disappointed that a person who is "knowledgeable" let you down, then that is your issue. You should stop looking at fallible humans with expectations. You should keep looking at only the Qur'aan and Sunnah.


What you have done so far is that you have attempted to mirror what I said to you in the other thread. I said to you that you are slandering me if you think I have an ego issue.

Now you have unsuccessfully tried to mirror that by hoping to take my words and change them into accusations.


So, do you accept your behavior is in opposition to the Sunnah?

He صلى الله عليه وعلى آله وسلم was harsh when he needed to be, and soft when he needed to be.

[ZeeshanParvez]

Anyway it is quite clear that our discussions, over time, will only leave you with bitterness.

I do not know what it is with you. Why you are harsh and aggressive. May Allah rectify that for you.

The fact that you think I have gone keyboard warrior on you and have accused you of false things already shows we are headed down a path which will not be one which benefits either one.

I will say two more things. One I did like the fact that you pointed out the difference of opinion among the scholars regarding the issue of deeds going to waste. The opinion of the Hanaabialh was once again the correct one as opposed to the Ashaa'irah.

Had you not done that I would have lived under the impression that what al-Qurtubi said was correct. Quite clearly it was not.


Second, I do hope you will read and learn from not only the manner of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) but also from what Allaah told Musaa (peace be upon him)


Allaah says to him in the Qur'aan

And speak to him with gentle speech that perhaps he may be reminded or fear [ Allah ]."

[Qur'aan 20:44]



This is the Pharaoh we are talking about. A tyrant. A man who murdered countless children.

Yet, when Allaah sends Musaa (peace be upon him) to him, He says speak to him with gentle speech.


And I am not the only one who has noticed your harsh behavior in opposition to the Sunnah. Others have as well.

We speak the truth but we do it with adab and gentleness.



Allaah told Musaa (peace be upon him) to be gentle to an enemy of Allaah.

How do you think you are supposed to act to Muslims who are believers in Allaah and His Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam)

You have the best example in the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) first and foremost.

Then you have the above.

[Saif-Uddin]

Zeeshan as soon as I corrected you and said Shirk isnt the only Sin that Nullifies bad deeds, you started replying, arguing against multiple posts of mine.

Clearly you have issues upstairs. You previously went nuts with Hanafi issue as well, you can't seem to take criticism or control your temper.

there is no point arguing with you to make you see reason, untill you get rid of your ego problems.

جزاك الله خيرا

[ZeeshanParvez]

I don't have ego problems .

So, you admit your behavior is not in accordance with the Sunnah.

It took us two days but you came around to it.

And which Hanafi issue is it that you refer to? Jog my memory please.