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  1. #1
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    Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    The Word Allah in the Bible

    بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ





    Just a few examples for those who are still in doubt . . .

    The images below, with the exception of the first image, were taken directly from The Holy Bible in Arabic. Referred to in Arabic as al-Kitâb al-Muqadis(i.e. ,The Holy Book), this is the scripture which is used by Arabic-speaking Christians (of which there are still about 15 to 20 million in the Middle East). So that those unfamiliar with Arabic script have something to compare these images with, the first image below is a verse from the Qur'ân - which is the Muslim scripture. In the images, the Arabic word Allahis in red so that it can be easily identified. Upon comparing the images, one should be able to clearly see that the word Allahappears in both the Qur'ânic and Arabic Bible images. Indeed, the word Allahappears throughout Arabic translations of the Bible, since it is simply the Arabic name for Almighty God. Insha'llah, the examples below will help quell the doubts of those who have been duped into believing that Muslims worship a different god - either by the hostile media or by Christian missionary propaganda. We hope that this serves as enough documentation for those who still have doubts about this. We could think of no other way to prove this point, except to encourage everyone to do further critical and open-minded research on their own. Please, don't forget to compare the images . . .

    _____________________________


    [Qu'ran 1:1 - English translation]

    "In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful."
    [Qur'ân 1:1 - Arabic transliteration]
    "Bismi-Allahi ar-Rahmani, ar-Raheem"
    [Qur'ân 1:1 - Arabic]
    بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ
    _____________________________

    [Genesis 1:1 - English Bible - King James Version]

    "In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth . . . "
    [Genesis 1:1 - Arabic transliteration]
    "Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawaat wa al-Ard . . . "

    [Genesis 1:1 - Arabic Bible]
    فِي الْبَدْءِ خَلَقَ اللهُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضَ،
    _____________________________

    [John 3:16 - English Bible - King James Version]

    "For God so loved the world, that . . . "
    [John 3:16 - Arabic transliteration]
    "Li-annhu haakadha ahabba Allahu al-'Aalama hataa badhala . . . "
    [John 3:16 - Arabic Bible]
    لأَنَّهُ هكَذَا أَحَبَّ اللهُ الْعَالَمَ حَتَّى بَذَلَ
    _____________________________

    [Luke 1:30 - English Bible - King James Version]

    " . . . Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God."
    [Luke 1:30 - Arabic transliteration]
    " . . . Laa takhaafee, yaa Maryam, li-annaki qad wajadti ni'amat(an) i'nda Allahi."

    [Luke 1:30 - Arabic Bible]
    فَقَالَ لَهَا الْمَلاَكُ: «لاَ تَخَافِي يَامَرْيَمُ، فَإِنَّكِ قَدْ نِلْتِ نِعْمَةً عِنْدَ اللهِ!
    _____________________________
    [Luke 3:38 - English Bible - New King James Version]


    "the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."
    [Luke 3:38 - Arabic transliteration]
    "bini Anoosha, bini Sheeti, bini Aaadama, abni Allahi."


    [Luke 3:38 - Arabic Bible]
    بْنِ أَنُوشَ بْنِ شِيثِ، بْنِ آدَمَ ابْنِ اللهِ.
    _____________________________

    Infact if you make a search for the word Allah اللهِ in the Arabic Bible, look how many results you come up with:



  2. #41
    Odan
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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Quote Originally Posted by RockMeHardplace View Post
    Its quite possible that all Gods throughout history are the same, the only difference being in how He is worshipped.
    Or untill they associate partners with Him.

  3. #42
    Sit vis vobiscim RockPlace's Avatar
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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibn Sina View Post
    Or untill they associate partners with Him.
    That doesn't make any sense to me?
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.” ~ Galileo Galilei

    “The state of Nature has a law of Nature to govern it, which obliges every one, and reason, which is that law, teaches all mankind who will but consult it, that being all equal and independent, no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty or possessions." John Locke

  4. #43
    Odan alhadid's Avatar
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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Quote Originally Posted by RockMeHardplace View Post
    Its quite possible that all Gods throughout history are the same, the only difference being in how He is worshipped.
    ?@?@?@
    Last edited by alhadid; 18-10-06 at 09:29 PM.

  5. #44

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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Actually in Hebrew Scripture (and not Arabic or English or Swahile translations), "G-d", Blessed be His Name, has many apellations.
    In Hebrew a name is more than a mere identification label, but descriptive of the essence and character of the object/person/being.
    Thus you will find YHVH, ELOHIM, EL SHADDAI, ADONAI, MELEKH, etc. even אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה

    And God said unto Moses: 'I AM THAT I AM'; and He said: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.'
    --Shemot 3:14

    Thus, we often refer to Him as HASHEM: the Name.

    See: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/name.htm

    Similarly, the shared semitic Hebrew "El" and the Arabic "Allah" reflect, at least from the Hebrew, the identification ad G-d as "Almighty."

    Respectfully,
    History

  6. #45

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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Quote Originally Posted by History View Post
    Actually in Hebrew Scripture (and not Arabic or English or Swahile translations), "G-d", Blessed be His Name, has many apellations.
    In Hebrew a name is more than a mere identification label, but descriptive of the essence and character of the object/person/being.
    Thus you will find YHVH, ELOHIM, EL SHADDAI, ADONAI, MELEKH, etc. even אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה

    And God said unto Moses: 'I AM THAT I AM'; and He said: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.'--Shemot 3:14

    Thus, we often refer to Him as HASHEM: the Name.
    Thanks for that. A lot of those appellations don’t serve as names of God. Jews have an extremely respectful stance towards God, and I suppose this manifests itself in the proliferation of respectful titles. El Shaddai: El (God) of Mountain, Melekh: King (same as Arabic ‘Malik’), Adonai: Our Lord (I think, I can’t quite recall that one, and have sparse of Hebrew), and suchlike

  7. #46
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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Quote Originally Posted by History View Post
    Similarly, the shared semitic Hebrew "El" and the Arabic "Allah" reflect, at least from the Hebrew, the identification ad G-d as "Almighty."
    That's right. I just read in Wikipedia that the Semitic root 'L probably denotes power and strength.
    Please Re-update your Signature

  8. #47
    Odan GothiKa's Avatar
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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Quote Originally Posted by Yurt View Post
    God and Allah are not the same. Play with words all day, but the power of God is different from Allah.

    God had a son.

    Allah has not.

    Period.

    This tired argument that the "gods" are the same from Muslims is boring. In fact it is not even close to the discussion between a jew and a christian, why? Because Allah came along over 600 years after putting a fake jesus on the cross to finally proclaim to the world that, hey, i never put jesus, a prophet of islam, on the cross.

    The difference is huge. The differences between jews and christians (in a simplified nutshell) boil down to they don't accept Christ as a prophet or anything more, whereas Islam actually says that Christians (not Xtains as so many muslims here slanderously say) are lying and that in fact it is not only christians, but jews who are lying.

    Christianity does not claim that jews lied.

    Islam is the only religion to come along and say that hey, these two religions that this religion is built upon (e.g., our prophets, stories are the same) are lying.

    VERY different.

    Allah is not the same as God.

    Period.
    Brother Abdul Karim Benoit Evans had said the following:

    As the old saying goes, it is better to remain silent and be thought to
    be stupid than to speak out and remove all doubt.


    It is the overwhelming opinion of the vast majority of Jewish and
    Christian scholars and theologians that Jews, Christians and Muslims all
    worship the same, eternal, omnipotent, omniscient Divine Being, whom the
    Jews call YHVH and Elohim, whom the Christians, depending on their
    language, call God, Dieu, Theos, Gott, and (in the case of Arabic
    speaking Christians) Allah.

    Against this great consensus there is an extremely small minority of
    so-called "evangelical" or "fundamentalist" Christians, represented most
    notably by preachers like Jerry Falwell and Franklin Graham, who argue
    that the Divine Being worshipped by Muslims is not the same Divine Being
    worshipped by Christians. In terms of their numbers, they are an
    insignificant group. In terms of history and theology, their position is
    absurd.

    Allah is related to the Hebrew word Eloah, which is a form of the more
    commonly used Hebrew word Elohim.

    The great medieval Jewish scholar, Rabbi Maimonides, said:

    "These Muslims are not in any way idolators. [Idolatry] has
    already been removed from their mouths and their hearts, and they unify
    G-d in the appropriate manner without any admixture [of idolatrous
    beliefs]." (Responsa 448)

    In Newsday magazine's "The God Squad" column, Jewish Rabbi Marc Gellman
    and Roman Catholic priest Thomas Hartman co-signed the answer to the
    following question:

    "Q. Do you believe that Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the
    same God? -H., Kansas City

    "Yes! The basic, undeniable fact of all three faiths is that they
    believe in one God. Whether this God is called Elohim, Abba or Allah,
    the object of that name is the same single, all-powerful, all-knowing
    and benevolent God of all creation. ...We must say that the three
    Abrahamic faiths worship the same God."

    Rabbi David Rosen of the American Jewish Committee recalls the
    centuries-old scholarship recognizing the shared monotheism of the Jews,
    Christians and Muslims:

    "On the basis of the position of the Meiri (Bet Habehirah, Bava Kama,
    113b) recognizing both Muslims and Christians as monotheistic believers
    bound by the minimal moral code, the first Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi in
    Israel, Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak HaCohen Kuk ruled (Iggeret 89;
    Mishpat-Cohen 63) that Muslims and Christians living in a predominant
    Jewish society must be treated as gerim toshavim, i.e., with full civil
    liberties, just as Jews."

    All the major Christian denominations also declare that Muslims, Jews
    and Christians worship the same Eternal Godhead.

    The official Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church says:

    "841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. 'The plan of salvation
    also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place
    amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of
    Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God,
    mankind's judge on the last day'."

    Source: <http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm#III>

    That teaching was proclaimed during the Vatican II Council in the 1960s
    after the bishops present accepted it by a vote of 2,151 for and only 5
    against. That's as strong as the votes in early times that proclaimed
    the doctrines of Christ's divinity and the Trinity.

    That same Council also declared the following:

    "The Church regards with respect the Muslims, who worship the One,
    Living, Subsistent, Merciful, Almighty God who created the heavens and
    the earth, who spoke to men. They strive to submit wholeheartedly to
    God's commandments...even as Abraham submitted himself to God, whose
    obedience is often recalled in the Islamic religion. Although they do
    not recognize Jesus as God, they do venerate him as a prophet and they
    honour his virgin mother, Mary.... They await the Day of Judgment, when
    God will reward all those risen from the dead. They hold in high regard
    the moral life and worship God,particularly by prayer, charity and
    fasting."

    Here is what the General Conference of the United Methodist Church
    declared in 1992:

    "Christians and Muslims acknowledge common roots, along with Jews, in
    the faith of Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar. As members of one of the
    monotheistic world religions, Muslims worship and serve the one God
    with disciplined devotion. Both Christians and Muslims believe that God
    is ever-inclined toward humankind in justice and mercy. The two faiths
    sometimes understand differently the particular ways in which God deals
    with human beings, but they agree that the proper human response to the
    Almighty is a life of humble obedience, including repentance, faith,
    and good works."
    When the Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) purified the sanctuary in
    Mecca, he emptied it of all its idols and restored it as the House of
    God on Earth. He rededicated it to the sole worship of
    JHVH-Elohim-Eloah-Allah-God, who was the God of Adam and Eve, Abraham,
    Moses, Solomon, David, Jesus and Muhammad.
    The definition of courage is to fight to the death in defense of religion, in defense of womanhood, of ill treated neighbours, of the oppressed who seek protection, or in defense of a lost fortune, honour which has been attacked, and other rights, against all adversaries, whether they be few or many.

  9. #48
    Traveller carol_au's Avatar
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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Quote Originally Posted by GothiKa View Post
    Brother Abdul Karim Benoit Evans had said the following:

    As the old saying goes, it is better to remain silent and be thought to
    be stupid than to speak out and remove all doubt.


    It is the overwhelming opinion of the vast majority of Jewish and
    Christian scholars and theologians that Jews, Christians and Muslims all
    worship the same, eternal, omnipotent, omniscient Divine Being, whom the
    Jews call YHVH and Elohim, whom the Christians, depending on their
    language, call God, Dieu, Theos, Gott, and (in the case of Arabic
    speaking Christians) Allah.

    Against this great consensus there is an extremely small minority of
    so-called "evangelical" or "fundamentalist" Christians, represented most
    notably by preachers like Jerry Falwell and Franklin Graham, who argue
    that the Divine Being worshipped by Muslims is not the same Divine Being
    worshipped by Christians. In terms of their numbers, they are an
    insignificant group. In terms of history and theology, their position is
    absurd.

    Allah is related to the Hebrew word Eloah, which is a form of the more
    commonly used Hebrew word Elohim.

    The great medieval Jewish scholar, Rabbi Maimonides, said:

    "These Muslims are not in any way idolators. [Idolatry] has
    already been removed from their mouths and their hearts, and they unify
    G-d in the appropriate manner without any admixture [of idolatrous
    beliefs]." (Responsa 448)

    In Newsday magazine's "The God Squad" column, Jewish Rabbi Marc Gellman
    and Roman Catholic priest Thomas Hartman co-signed the answer to the
    following question:

    "Q. Do you believe that Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the
    same God? -H., Kansas City

    "Yes! The basic, undeniable fact of all three faiths is that they
    believe in one God. Whether this God is called Elohim, Abba or Allah,
    the object of that name is the same single, all-powerful, all-knowing
    and benevolent God of all creation. ...We must say that the three
    Abrahamic faiths worship the same God."

    Rabbi David Rosen of the American Jewish Committee recalls the
    centuries-old scholarship recognizing the shared monotheism of the Jews,
    Christians and Muslims:

    "On the basis of the position of the Meiri (Bet Habehirah, Bava Kama,
    113b) recognizing both Muslims and Christians as monotheistic believers
    bound by the minimal moral code, the first Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi in
    Israel, Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak HaCohen Kuk ruled (Iggeret 89;
    Mishpat-Cohen 63) that Muslims and Christians living in a predominant
    Jewish society must be treated as gerim toshavim, i.e., with full civil
    liberties, just as Jews."

    All the major Christian denominations also declare that Muslims, Jews
    and Christians worship the same Eternal Godhead.

    The official Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church says:

    "841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. 'The plan of salvation
    also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place
    amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of
    Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God,
    mankind's judge on the last day'."

    Source: <http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm#III>

    That teaching was proclaimed during the Vatican II Council in the 1960s
    after the bishops present accepted it by a vote of 2,151 for and only 5
    against. That's as strong as the votes in early times that proclaimed
    the doctrines of Christ's divinity and the Trinity.

    That same Council also declared the following:

    "The Church regards with respect the Muslims, who worship the One,
    Living, Subsistent, Merciful, Almighty God who created the heavens and
    the earth, who spoke to men. They strive to submit wholeheartedly to
    God's commandments...even as Abraham submitted himself to God, whose
    obedience is often recalled in the Islamic religion. Although they do
    not recognize Jesus as God, they do venerate him as a prophet and they
    honour his virgin mother, Mary.... They await the Day of Judgment, when
    God will reward all those risen from the dead. They hold in high regard
    the moral life and worship God,particularly by prayer, charity and
    fasting."

    Here is what the General Conference of the United Methodist Church
    declared in 1992:

    "Christians and Muslims acknowledge common roots, along with Jews, in
    the faith of Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar. As members of one of the
    monotheistic world religions, Muslims worship and serve the one God
    with disciplined devotion. Both Christians and Muslims believe that God
    is ever-inclined toward humankind in justice and mercy. The two faiths
    sometimes understand differently the particular ways in which God deals
    with human beings, but they agree that the proper human response to the
    Almighty is a life of humble obedience, including repentance, faith,
    and good works."
    When the Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) purified the sanctuary in
    Mecca, he emptied it of all its idols and restored it as the House of
    God on Earth. He rededicated it to the sole worship of
    JHVH-Elohim-Eloah-Allah-God, who was the God of Adam and Eve, Abraham,
    Moses, Solomon, David, Jesus and Muhammad.
    I know many of the Christians here will disagree with me, but I have long believed that Muslims, Christians and Jews do worship the same God.. what is different is our knowledge of His Character, and our understanding of the acceptable worship of Him.

    Every apostle took the God's the Jews knew and expanded on the knowledge that was already existing about God. Paul did the same with the Athenians in Acts 17.

    The knowledge of One God is not only in monotheistic religions, but is firmly entrenched in polytheistic religions as well, but is well buried under the many "gods" and "totems' and "idols" .. but the old people know of Him and this is the "God" they respond to when they become Christians (or I believe as probably Muslims or Jews) ...depending who speaks to them first.
    .The Prophet sal Allahu alaiyhi wa sallam said, “I guarantee a house in Jannah for one who gives up arguing, even if he is in the right; and I guarantee a home in the middle of Jannah for one who abandons lying even for the sake of fun; and I guarantee a house in the highest part of Jannah for one who has good manners.”
    http://jameelah61.wordpress.com/

  10. #49
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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Carol

    What do you think of this saying of mine: "the Old Testament has revealed God from the outside and the New Testament has revealed him from the inside"?
    Please Re-update your Signature

  11. #50
    Traveller carol_au's Avatar
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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyril View Post
    Carol

    What do you think of this saying of mine: "the Old Testament has revealed God from the outside and the New Testament has revealed him from the inside"?
    I think I know what you mean Cyril, but do you mind telling me a bit more to make sure I do understand you properly?
    .The Prophet sal Allahu alaiyhi wa sallam said, “I guarantee a house in Jannah for one who gives up arguing, even if he is in the right; and I guarantee a home in the middle of Jannah for one who abandons lying even for the sake of fun; and I guarantee a house in the highest part of Jannah for one who has good manners.”
    http://jameelah61.wordpress.com/

  12. #51
    New Member the saint's Avatar
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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr ®hizomati© View Post
    Yes, but Arabic bibles didn't exist until long after the establishment of Islam. Since we muslimuun call God Allah it only seems reasonable that we would publish Arabic bibles with the word Allah in place of God!
    Why would muslimun publish bibles?
    This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. 5:3

  13. #52
    Senior Member farouk92's Avatar
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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Quote Originally Posted by RockMeHardplace View Post
    That doesn't make any sense to me?
    Asalamualaykum,
    The term "associating partners" with God, called shirk in Arabic, is worshipping God as well as something/someone else. For instance, Muslims would consider the Trinity as shirk. Hope that helps.
    Whomsoever God desires to guide, He expands his breast to Islam; whomsoever He desires to lead astray, He makes his breast narrow, tight, as if he were climbing in the sky. So God lays abomination upon those who believe not. [6:125]

  14. #53
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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Yes! it is the same G-d.

    He mentioned himself with an Egyptian name so the Jewish people would understand it was him.

    I read from the same Jewish source that G-d used the voice of Prophet Moses' father to communicate with him.

    Prophet Moses(peace be upon him) first addressed G-d as his father but G-d ,according to this Jewish source, corrected him and explained that he was using his father's voice.

    Which supports my idea that G-s uses voices and other forms of nature as VEILS.

    Ezekiel's Temple has already been built:

    Ezekiel 43:5

    2nd Chronicles 5:13

    Haggai 2:5-7 especially verse 7.


  15. #54
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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Derived from a previous thread:


    SOURCE of this ANSWER: http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/loj/loj304.htm

    THE FIRST COMMANDMENT

    The first word of God on Sinai was Anoki, "It is I." It was not a Hebrew word, but and Egyptian word that Israel first heard from God. He treated them as did that king his home-coming son, whom, returning from a long stay over sea, he addressed in the language the son had acquired in a foreign land. So God addressed Israel in Egyptian, because it was the language they spoke. At the same time Israel recognized in this word "Anoki," that is was God who addressed them. For when Jacob had assembled his children around his death-bed, he warned them to be mindful of the glory of God, and confided to them the secrets that God would hereafter reveal to them with the word "Anoki." He said: "With the word 'Anoki' He addressed my grandfather Abraham; with the word 'Anoki' He addressed my father Isaac, and with the word 'Anoki' He addressed me. Know, then, that when He will come to you, and will so address, you, it will be He, but not otherwise."

    When the first commandment had come out of the mouth of God thunder and lightning proceeded from His mouth, a torch was at His right, and a torch at His left, and His voice flew through the air, saying: "My people, My people, House of Israel! I am the Eternal, you God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt." When Israel heard the awful voice, they flew back in their horror twelve miles, until their souls fled from them. Upon this the Torah turned to God, saying: "Lord of the world! Hast Thou given me to the living, or to the dead?" God said: "To the living." The Torah: "But they are all dead." God: "For thy sake will I restore them to life." Hereupon He let fall upon them the dew that will hereafter revive the dead, and they returned to life.

    The trembling of heaven and earth that set in upon the perception of the Divine voice, alarmed Israel so greatly that they could hardly stand on their feet. God hereupon sent to every one of them two angels; on lay his hand upon the heart of each, that his soul might not depart, and on to lift the head of each, that he might behold his Maker's splendor. They beheld the glory of God as well as the otherwise invisible word when it emanated from the Divine vision, and rolled forward to their ears, whereupon they perceived these words: "Wilt thou accept the Torah, which contains two hundred and forty-eight commandments, corresponding to the number of the members of they body?" They answered: "Yea, yea." Then the word passed from the ear to the mouth; it kissed the mouth, then rolled again to the ear again to the ear, and called to it: "Wilt thou accept the Torah, which contains three hundred and sixty-five prohibitions, corresponding to the days of the year?" And when they replied, "Yea, yea," again the word turned from the ear to the mouth and kissed it. After the Israelites had in this wise taken upon themselves the commandments and the prohibitions, God opened the seven heavens and the seven earths, and said: "Behold, these are My witnesses that there is none like Me in the heights or on earth! See that I am the Only One, and that I have revealed Myself in My splendor and My radiance! If anyone should say to you, 'Go, serve other gods,' then say: 'Can one who has seen his Maker, face to face, in His splendor, in His glory and His strength, leave Him and become an idolater?' See, it is I that have delivered you out of the house of bondage; it is I that cleaved the seas before you and led you on dry land, while I submerged you enemies in the depths. I am the God of the dry land as well as the sea, of the past as well as of the future, the God of this world as well as of the future worlds. I am the God of all nations, but only with Israel is My name allied. If they fulfil My wishes, I, the Eternal, am merciful, gracious and long suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth; but if you are disobedient, then will I be a stern judge. If you had not accepted the Torah, no punishment could have fallen upon you were you not to fulfil it, but now that you have accepted it, you must obey it."

    In order to convince Israel of the unity and uniqueness of God, He bade all nature stand still, that all might see that there is nothing beside Him. When God bestowed the Torah, no bird sang, no ox lowed, the Ofannim did not fly, the Seraphim uttered not their "Holy, holy, holy," the sea did not roar, no creature uttered a sound-all listened in breathless silence to the words announced by an echoless voice, "I am the Lord you God."

    These words as well as the others, made know by God on Mount Sinai, were not heard by Israel alone, but by the inhabitants of all the earth. The Divine voice divided itself into the seventy tongues of men, so that all might understand it; but whereas Israel could listen to the voice without suffering harm, the souls of the heathens almost fled from them when they heard it. When the Divine voice sounded, all the dead in Sheol were revived, and betook themselves to Sinai; for the revelation took place in the presence of the living as well as of the dead, yea, even the souls of those who were not yet born were present. Every prophet, every sage, received at Sinai his share of the revelation, which in the course of history was announced by them to mankind. All heard indeed the same words, but the same voice, corresponding to the individuality of each, was God's way of speaking with them. And as the same voice sounded differently to each one, so did the Divine vision appear differently to each, wherefore God warned them not to ascribe the various forms to various beings, saying: "Do not believe that because you have seen Me in various forms, there are various gods, I am the same that appeared to you at the Red Sea as a God of war, and at Sinai as a teacher."

    THE ASCENSION OF MOSES

    The vision of the burning bush appeared to Moses alone; the other shepherds with him saw nothing of it. He took five steps in the direction of the bush, to view it at close range, and when God beheld the countenance of Moses distorted by grief and anxiety over Israel's suffering, He spake, "This one is worthy of the office of pasturing My people."
    Moses was still a novice in prophecy, therefore God said to Himself, "If I reveal Myself to him in loud tones, I shall alarm him, but if I reveal Myself with a subdued voice, he will hold prophecy in low esteem," whereupon he addressed him in his father Amram's voice. Moses was overjoyed to hear his father speak, for it gave him the assurance that. he was still alive. The voice called his name twice, and he answered, "Here am I! What is my father's wish?" God replied, saying, "I am not thy father. I but desired to refrain from terrifying thee, therefore I spoke with thy father's voice. I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." These words rejoiced Moses greatly, for not only was his father Amram's name pronounced in the same breath with the names of the three Patriarchs, but it came before theirs, as though he ranked higher than they.
    Moses said not a word. In silent reverence before the Divine vision he covered his face, and when God disclosed the mission with which He charged him, of bringing the Israelites forth from the land of Egypt, he answered with humility, "Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt?" Thereupon spake God, "Moses, thou art meek, and I will reward thee for thy modesty. I will deliver the whole land of Egypt into thine hand, and, besides, I will let thee ascend unto the throne of My glory, and look upon all the angels of the heavens."
    Sahih Muslim collection-
    Book 030, Number 5853:
    Abu Huraira reported: While a Jew was selling goods, he was given something which he did not accept or he did not agree (to accept) that 'Abdul 'Azlz (one of the narrators) is doubtful about it. He (the Jew) said: By Allah, Who chose Moses (peace be upon him) among mankind. A person from the Ansar heard it and gave a blow at his face saying: (You have the audacity) to say: By Him Who chose Moses amongst mankind, whereas Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) is living amongst us. The Jew went to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Abu'l-Qasim, I am a Dhimmi and (thus need your protection) by a covenant, and added: Such and such person has given a blow upon my face. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Why did you give a blow on his face? He said: Allah's Messenger, this man said: By Him Who chose Moses (peace be upon him) amongst mankind, whereas you are living amongst us. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) became angry and signs of anger could be seen on his face, and then said: Don't make distinction amongst the Prophets of Allah. When the horn will be blown and whatever is in the heavens and the earth would swoon but he whom Allah grants exception, then another horn will be blown and I would be the first amongst those who would recover and Moses (peace be upon him) would be catching hold of the Throne and I do not know whether it is a compensation for that when he swooned on the Day of Tur or he would be resurrected before me and I do not say that anyone is more excellent than Yunus son of Matta (peace he upon him). This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Abu Salama with the same chain of transmitters.
    Last edited by Hasan2004; 19-11-06 at 01:54 AM.

    Ezekiel's Temple has already been built:

    Ezekiel 43:5

    2nd Chronicles 5:13

    Haggai 2:5-7 especially verse 7.


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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Hasan,
    Thank you for your post.
    I read from the same Jewish source ....
    The source you quote from is Louis Ginzberg's wonderful work, "The Legends of the Jews", a compendium of Jewish folklore. It is, in a manner of speaking, our "1001 Arabian Nights", though more relevent in being inspired from a plethora of various Jewish sources.
    It is not canonical, nor even truly theological.

    Respectfully,
    History

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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibn Sina View Post
    The Word Allah in the Bible

    بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ





    Just a few examples for those who are still in doubt . . .

    The images below, with the exception of the first image, were taken directly from The Holy Bible in Arabic. Referred to in Arabic as al-Kitâb al-Muqadis(i.e. ,The Holy Book), this is the scripture which is used by Arabic-speaking Christians (of which there are still about 15 to 20 million in the Middle East). So that those unfamiliar with Arabic script have something to compare these images with, the first image below is a verse from the Qur'ân - which is the Muslim scripture. In the images, the Arabic word Allahis in red so that it can be easily identified. Upon comparing the images, one should be able to clearly see that the word Allahappears in both the Qur'ânic and Arabic Bible images. Indeed, the word Allahappears throughout Arabic translations of the Bible, since it is simply the Arabic name for Almighty God. Insha'llah, the examples below will help quell the doubts of those who have been duped into believing that Muslims worship a different god - either by the hostile media or by Christian missionary propaganda. We hope that this serves as enough documentation for those who still have doubts about this. We could think of no other way to prove this point, except to encourage everyone to do further critical and open-minded research on their own. Please, don't forget to compare the images . . .

    _____________________________


    [Qu'ran 1:1 - English translation]

    "In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful."
    [Qur'ân 1:1 - Arabic transliteration]
    "Bismi-Allahi ar-Rahmani, ar-Raheem"
    [Qur'ân 1:1 - Arabic]
    بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ
    _____________________________

    [Genesis 1:1 - English Bible - King James Version]

    "In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth . . . "
    [Genesis 1:1 - Arabic transliteration]
    "Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawaat wa al-Ard . . . "

    [Genesis 1:1 - Arabic Bible]
    فِي الْبَدْءِ خَلَقَ اللهُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضَ،
    _____________________________

    [John 3:16 - English Bible - King James Version]

    "For God so loved the world, that . . . "
    [John 3:16 - Arabic transliteration]
    "Li-annhu haakadha ahabba Allahu al-'Aalama hataa badhala . . . "
    [John 3:16 - Arabic Bible]
    لأَنَّهُ هكَذَا أَحَبَّ اللهُ الْعَالَمَ حَتَّى بَذَلَ
    _____________________________

    [Luke 1:30 - English Bible - King James Version]

    " . . . Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God."
    [Luke 1:30 - Arabic transliteration]
    " . . . Laa takhaafee, yaa Maryam, li-annaki qad wajadti ni'amat(an) i'nda Allahi."

    [Luke 1:30 - Arabic Bible]
    فَقَالَ لَهَا الْمَلاَكُ: «لاَ تَخَافِي يَامَرْيَمُ، فَإِنَّكِ قَدْ نِلْتِ نِعْمَةً عِنْدَ اللهِ!
    _____________________________
    [Luke 3:38 - English Bible - New King James Version]


    "the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."
    [Luke 3:38 - Arabic transliteration]
    "bini Anoosha, bini Sheeti, bini Aaadama, abni Allahi."


    [Luke 3:38 - Arabic Bible]
    بْنِ أَنُوشَ بْنِ شِيثِ، بْنِ آدَمَ ابْنِ اللهِ.
    _____________________________

    Infact if you make a search for the word Allah اللهِ in the Arabic Bible, look how many results you come up with:


    Mashallah
    here is more links
    WHO IS JEHOVAH? (part:1)
    ALLAH IN THE BIBLE (part:2)
    Allahu Akbar

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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    It is written that when Moses asked, "If they should say to me, What is His name? what shall I say to them?" The Lord answered him, "Thus shalt thou say to them, HE WHO IS hath sent me to you" (Exodus 3:13-14). Therefor this name HE WHO IS most properly belongs to God.


    This name HE WHO IS is most properly applied to God, for three reasons:

    First, because of its signification. For it does not signify form, but simply existence itself. Hence since the existence of God is His essence itself, which can be said of no other (3, 4), it is clear that among other names this one specially denominates God, for everything is denominated by its form.

    Secondly, on account of its universality. For all other names are either less universal, or, if convertible with it, add something above it at least in idea; hence in a certain way they inform and determine it. Now our intellect cannot know the essence of God itself in this life, as it is in itself, but whatever mode it applies in determining what it understands about God, it falls short of the mode of what God is in Himself.

    Therefore the less determinate the names are, and the more universal and absolute they are, the more properly they are applied to God. Hence Damascene says (De Fide Orth. i) that, "HE WHO IS, is the principal of all names applied to God; for comprehending all in itself, it contains existence itself as an infinite and indeterminate sea of substance." Now by any other name some mode of substance is determined, whereas this name HE WHO IS, determines no mode of being, but is indeterminate to all; and therefore it denominates the "infinite ocean of substance."
    Thirdly, from its consignification, for it signifies present existence; and this above all properly applies to God, whose existence knows not past or future, as Augustine says (De Trin. v).

    (Whether the name, HE WHO IS, is the most proper name of God? - Aquinas)

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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Dear faropuk,
    Thank you for your post.
    Asalamualaykum,
    The term "associating partners" with God, called shirk in Arabic, is worshipping God as well as something/someone else. For instance, Muslims would consider the Trinity as shirk. Hope that helps.
    Jews define this phrase differently.
    We are strict monotheists. This means there is no Creator other than G-d, Blessed be His Name. G-d has no rival (e.g. Satan), and no other is to be worshiped. There is no one, not any human being, not even a prophet that is between man and G-d (Prophets are merely fellow human beings--with all this implies for our capacity for greatness and for ill).
    This is a given.
    "Partnering with G-d" means something completely different.
    It is the purpose and responsbility of every human being.

    Judaism teaches every human being is (or should be) "partners with G-d."
    We human beings are receivers of G-d's Creation and with responsibility for His Creation (see the 1st 4 chapters of Beresheis/Genesis]), and we are receivers of His ethical Law (Torah) for how to live in His Creation.
    In working His Will in Creation, cherishing and helping perfect His Creation through living per His Teachings, we are "partners" with G-d, Blessed be His Name.

    Respectfully,
    History

    fyi: From this Jewish perspective, the elevation of prophets, and in Islam, specifically of Muhammed, to a "superhuman" status (sinless, perfect, etc.)--the elevation of his name to be said adjacent to Allah/G-d in the Muslim's declaration of faith (i.e. "There is no god but G-d and Muhammed is His prophet"), the examples of world-riots and deaths through perceived "insult" to a man, even a revered man of G-d, is "associating partners with G-d", is "worship", is blasphemous ("shirk"). Regardless of what is claimed to the contrary, the actions of Muslims define their beliefs (which is true of all human beings).

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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Quote Originally Posted by History View Post
    fyi: From this Jewish perspective, the elevation of prophets, and in Islam, specifically of Muhammed, to a "superhuman" status (sinless, perfect, etc.)--the elevation of his name to be said adjacent to Allah/G-d in the Muslim's declaration of faith (i.e. "There is no god but G-d and Muhammed is His prophet"), the examples of world-riots and deaths through perceived "insult" to a man, even a revered man of G-d, is "associating partners with G-d", is "worship", is blasphemous ("shirk"). Regardless of what is claimed to the contrary, the actions of Muslims define their beliefs (which is true of all human beings).
    From another Jewish perspective, that of a person who lived with Muslims:

    "These Muslims are not in any way idolators. [Idolatry] has
    already been removed from their mouths and their hearts, and they unify
    G-d in the appropriate manner without any admixture [of idolatrous
    beliefs]." (Responsa 448) The great medieval Jewish scholar, Rabbi Maimonides

    the examples of world-riots and deaths through perceived "insult" to a man, even a revered man of G-d, is "associating partners with G-d", is "worship", is blasphemous ("shirk"). Regardless of what is claimed to the contrary
    Accordingly, this verse of the Torah promulgates shirk:

    Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. [Deuteronomy 17:12]
    The definition of courage is to fight to the death in defense of religion, in defense of womanhood, of ill treated neighbours, of the oppressed who seek protection, or in defense of a lost fortune, honour which has been attacked, and other rights, against all adversaries, whether they be few or many.

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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Quote Originally Posted by History View Post
    Dear faropuk,
    Thank you for your post.

    Jews define this phrase differently.
    We are strict monotheists. This means there is no Creator other than G-d, Blessed be His Name. G-d has no rival (e.g. Satan), and no other is to be worshiped. There is no one, not any human being, not even a prophet that is between man and G-d (Prophets are merely fellow human beings--with all this implies for our capacity for greatness and for ill).
    This is a given.
    "Partnering with G-d" means something completely different.
    It is the purpose and responsbility of every human being.
    Asalamualaykum,
    Of course there is no Creater besides Allah and Allah has no rival either (according to Islam too). What is meant by shirk is that the person is making partners with God, not that there are partners. Like I said before worshipping God as well as Jesus (as) would be considered shirk. Muslims say "La Ilaha Illa Allah wahdahu la sharika (partner) lahu" which translates to "There is no god but God. Wahdahu (meaning only Him), without any partners".
    Whomsoever God desires to guide, He expands his breast to Islam; whomsoever He desires to lead astray, He makes his breast narrow, tight, as if he were climbing in the sky. So God lays abomination upon those who believe not. [6:125]

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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Dear Gothika,
    Thank you for your post.
    Maimonides [in his Epistle to Apostasy] gave comfort to Jews who feared for their souls when forcibly conveted to Islam by stating that Muslims were also monotheists who revered the G-d of Israel--if not the people Israel. [Per Rambam, Muslims are not idolators--which is the worst sin.] This provided these Islamic "marranos" ease of soul until such time conditions changed where they could openly return to their Jewish faith (e.g.as occured with the Jews of Aden in 1192).
    However, Rambam (Moses Maimonides) was not overly complimentary of Islam, its leaders and people:
    G-d has cast us into the midst of this people, the nation of Ishmael, who persecute us severely, and who devise ways to harm us and debase us. No nation has ever done more to harm Israel. None has matched it in debasing and humiliating us. None has been able to reduce us as they have....David, the King of Israel...appealed for deliverance specifically from the Dominion of Ishmael, saying, 'Woe is to me that I sojourn in Meschech, that I dwell beside the tents of Kedar!"[Tehillim(Psalms) 120:5]. Note that he specifies Kedar, rather than the Ishmaelites generally. This is because the Madman was from the tribe of Kedar....We have done as our sages of blessed memory have instructed us, bearing the lies and absurdities of Ishmael. We listen, but remain silent...In spite of all this, we are not spared from their wickedness and their outburts at any time. On the contrary, the more we suffer and choose to concilate them, the more the more they choose to act beliigerantly toward us.
    --Rambam, Epistle to Yemen (1172)

    http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=107783
    http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=002...3E2.0.CO%3B2-C

    Respectfully,
    History

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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Re:
    Accordingly, this verse of the Torah promulgates shirk:
    The following merely sets up the courts of law in ancient Israel (pre-Sanhedrin). The Judges, the jurors, the verdicts, and the need for the citizen to comply with the Law. This is not "shirk". This is the establishment of civil society where the individual is to comply with the Law of society (in this case G-d's Law). People in civil society cannot be a law unto themselves.

    Respectfully,
    History


    ח כִּי יִפָּלֵא מִמְּךָ דָבָר לַמִּשְׁפָּט, בֵּין-דָּם לְדָם בֵּין-דִּין לְדִין וּבֵין נֶגַע לָנֶגַע--דִּבְרֵי רִיבֹת, בִּשְׁעָרֶיךָ: וְקַמְתָּ וְעָלִיתָ--אֶל-הַמָּקוֹם, אֲשֶׁר יִבְחַר יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ בּוֹ. 8 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, even matters of controversy within thy gates; then shalt thou arise, and get thee up unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose. ט וּבָאתָ, אֶל-הַכֹּהֲנִים הַלְוִיִּם, וְאֶל-הַשֹּׁפֵט, אֲשֶׁר יִהְיֶה בַּיָּמִים הָהֵם; וְדָרַשְׁתָּ וְהִגִּידוּ לְךָ, אֵת דְּבַר הַמִּשְׁפָּט. 9 And thou shall come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days; and thou shalt inquire; and they shall declare unto thee the sentence of judgment. י וְעָשִׂיתָ, עַל-פִּי הַדָּבָר אֲשֶׁר יַגִּידוּ לְךָ, מִן-הַמָּקוֹם הַהוּא, אֲשֶׁר יִבְחַר יְהוָה; וְשָׁמַרְתָּ לַעֲשׂוֹת, כְּכֹל אֲשֶׁר יוֹרוּךָ. 10 And thou shalt do according to the tenor of the sentence, which they shall declare unto thee from that place which the LORD shall choose; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they shall teach thee. יא עַל-פִּי הַתּוֹרָה אֲשֶׁר יוֹרוּךָ, וְעַל-הַמִּשְׁפָּט אֲשֶׁר-יֹאמְרוּ לְךָ--תַּעֲשֶׂה: לֹא תָסוּר, מִן-הַדָּבָר אֲשֶׁר-יַגִּידוּ לְךָ--יָמִין וּשְׂמֹאל. 11 According to the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do; thou shalt not turn aside from the sentence which they shall declare unto thee, to the right hand, nor to the left. יב וְהָאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר-יַעֲשֶׂה בְזָדוֹן, לְבִלְתִּי שְׁמֹעַ אֶל-הַכֹּהֵן הָעֹמֵד לְשָׁרֶת שָׁם אֶת-יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, אוֹ, אֶל-הַשֹּׁפֵט--וּמֵת הָאִישׁ הַהוּא, וּבִעַרְתָּ הָרָע מִיִּשְׂרָאֵל. 12 And the man that doeth presumptuously, in not hearkening unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die; and thou shalt exterminate the evil from Israel. יג וְכָל-הָעָם, יִשְׁמְעוּ וְיִרָאוּ; וְלֹא יְזִידוּן, עוֹד. {ס} 13 And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously. --Devarim 17

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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Dear farouk,
    Thank you for your post.
    Asalamualaykum,
    Of course there is no Creater besides Allah and Allah has no rival either (according to Islam too). What is meant by shirk is that the person is making partners with God, not that there are partners. Like I said before worshipping God as well as Jesus (as) would be considered shirk. Muslims say "La Ilaha Illa Allah wahdahu la sharika (partner) lahu" which translates to "There is no god but God. Wahdahu (meaning only Him), without any partners".
    This is still unclear to me.
    There are no "partners" with Allah in what way?
    No other Creator?
    No other Authority?
    No other supernatural being(s)?
    No other can work with Allah to do His Will?

    Respectfully,
    History

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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Quote Originally Posted by History View Post
    Dear Gothika,
    Thank you for your post.
    Maimonides [in his Epistle to Apostasy] gave comfort to Jews who feared for their souls when forcibly conveted to Islam by stating that Muslims were also monotheists who revered the G-d of Israel--if not the people Israel. [Per Rambam, Muslims are not idolators--which is the worst sin.] This provided these Islamic "marranos" ease of soul until such time conditions changed where they could openly return to their Jewish faith (e.g.as occured with the Jews of Aden in 1192).
    However, Rambam (Moses Maimonides) was not overly complimentary of Islam, its leaders and people:
    Your assertion is implausible. If it was persecution which induced him to acknowledge the pure monotheism of Islam, why did he write in the letter(which you quoted), "We listen, but remain silent". Moreover, there are other works of his which portray Islam in a positive light, so to speak. Here is one from "Misneh Torah":

    However, the thoughts of the Creator of the world are beyond the ability of humans to apprehend . . . and all the deeds of Jesus of Nazareth and this Arab [Muhammed] who arose after him, they are only to prepare the way for the Messiah-King and to order (le-taqqen) the whole world to serve the Lord together, as it is said in Scripture, "For then I will turn to the peoples (el ha-ammim) with clear speech (safah berurah) to call all of them in the name of the Lord and to serve Him with one accord" (Zephaniah 3:9).

    David Novak commented on the above:
    From this text we see that the role of Christianity and Islam is to prepare the world for the reign of the best form of polity possible in this world, which is the reign of the Messiah-King, who will combine the highest theoretical ability with the highest practical ability.20 That is, he will teach the truth about God and the relation of the world to him, as well as the good that God wants his human creatures to practice in the world. Since the Torah already fully expounds upon these two excellences superlatively, the chief distinction of this polity is that it will be one where the complete law of the Torah is able to be fully authoritative and wholly effective politically. In other words, the Messiah-King will actualize the full potential of the Torah of Moses, not introduce the changes into it that have come from Christianity and Islam. That might very well be the meaning of "returning to what is good," namely, returning Christians especially to the Jewish roots of their own faith, roots from which Christian doctrine has partially, but not wholly, deviated

    The erudite(Novak) has also said:

    In the case of Islam, the effect has been to bring millions of former polytheists to monotheism. It is well known that at the level of theoretical theology, Maimonides had a high regard for Islam. He vigorously denied that it had any idolatrous aspects to its theology.24 His greatest philosophical influences were Muslim thinkers. Islam’s defect is, however, that Muslims do not accept the Mosaic Torah as the complete revelation of God to humankind.25 Instead, they regard it as a flawed revelation, one whose many errors are corrected by the full revelation of God to humankind in the Quran.
    On the other hand, Christianity’s theoretical theology is very problematic for Jews. The doctrine of the trinity, especially, seemed to both Jewish and Muslim thinkers to be a serious deviation from pure monotheism. Maimonides follows this common Jewish-Islamic critique of what seems to be Christianity’s compromise with polytheism.26 Now by "polytheism" one can mean one of two errors: the worship of a god or gods other than the Creator of the universe; or the worship of the Creator of the universe through worldly intermediaries. For Maimonides, Christianity seems to be like the second, milder, form of polytheism. It is an error concerning the means rather than the end of worship. Nevertheless, as he indicates in the responsum we examined earlier, which deals with the question of the permissibility of teaching the Torah to the gentiles, Christians are closer to Judaism than Muslims are because "the uncircumcised ones [Christians] believe that the text of the Torah has not changed."27 That is why we may teach the Torah to them, but not to the Muslims. What this means is that having a revealed text in common is more important than certain abstract theological commonalities. For not only is Scripture the source of the most complete knowledge of God possible in this world; it is also the most perfect law for the governance of the body politic. So it would seem that for Maimonides, despite its serious theoretical errors, Christianity’s merit is its acceptance of the authority of the full text of Scripture as a practical matter. Indeed, the Ten Commandments and all they entail – especially in the area of interhuman relations, the subject of morality – are taken by Christianity to be God’s perpetually binding law for all humankind. It is the subject of what many Christian theologians were to eventually designate as "natural law."28 Thus, it would seem, whereas in the area of theory Christians need to be corrected in their erroneous interpretations of Scripture, in the area of practice their interpretations are not erroneous but only incomplete. In this area, especially, the errors are more of omission than of actual commission.

    Later in Mishneh Torah, when dealing with the prohibition of gentile wine to Jews, either as regards drinking it or even profiting from the sale of it, Maimonides writes:

    The resident-alien (ger toshav), namely, one who has accepted the seven Noahide commandments, as we have already explained: his wine if forbidden for drinking but it is permitted to derive monetary benefit from it (muttar be-haniyyah) . . . Such is the case with all the gentiles who are not idolaters, like these Muslims . . . so rule all the post-talmudic authorities (geonim). But as for even the nonsacramental wine (stam yeinam) of those idolaters, it is forbidden to derive monetary benefit from it.35

    It is quite clear that in this text Maimonides is making a halakhic distinction between what he considers to be the nonidolatrous Muslims and the idolatrous Christians.


    Maimonides on Judaism
    and Other Religions


    The Samuel H. Goldenson Lecture, February 23, 1997
    Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion, Cincinnati, Ohio
    The definition of courage is to fight to the death in defense of religion, in defense of womanhood, of ill treated neighbours, of the oppressed who seek protection, or in defense of a lost fortune, honour which has been attacked, and other rights, against all adversaries, whether they be few or many.

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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Dear Gothika,
    Thank you for your post.
    Your assertion is implausible. If it was persecution which induced him to acknowledge the pure monotheism of Islam, why did he write in the letter(which you quoted), "We listen, but remain silent".
    Let me restate this then.
    Maimonides did not support that Jews should become Muslims.
    Islam was not the true faith.
    However, Islam is monotheistic, which is not something Maimonides believed of Christianity.
    Thus, Jews forced to to convert (temporarily) to Islam were not idolators.
    Those given the choice to convert to Christianity or die, would need choose the latter (Kaddish Ha-Shem / "Sanctifying the Holy Name"), since to Maimonides viewed Christianity as idolatry and this was one of the few things anathema to Jews for which a Jew must choose death.

    As for the Mishneh Torah (Maimonides commentary on Torah), again do not confuse his recognition of Islam as monotheistic as "appreciation" or approval of Islam. Although Islam was acknowledged as monotheistic, in contrast to Christianity, Maimonides recognized both were "deviations", as Mr. Novak points out in your quotation. In his contemplation of the "Why": Why did G-d permit Christianity? Why did G-d permit Islam?, Maimonides concluded that both were superior to paganism and were therefore step-like ethical advancements for pagan peoples who will one day, in the time of the Moshiach/Messiah (may we see him in our day), be ready to take the final step and accept G-d's Word as known to His people. As you quote Mr. Novak:
    In other words, the Messiah-King will actualize the full potential of the Torah of Moses, not introduce the changes into it that have come from Christianity and Islam.
    Separating the faith of Islam from the Muslim practioners--particularly on Muslim treatment of Jews, you will see Maimonides had a great dislike for the injustices and depradations that Muslims performed against Jews. Again see his Epistle on Apostasy and his Epistle to Yemen (of wich I've shared a few quotes in my prior post).

    Respectfully,
    History

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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Have you ever seen "the passion of the christ", the jesus character does not say yahweh once, infact he keeps saying "allah"!!!
    ...

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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    History,

    you said:

    The source you quote from is Louis Ginzberg's wonderful work, "The Legends of the Jews", a compendium of Jewish folklore. It is, in a manner of speaking, our "1001 Arabian Nights", though more relevent in being inspired from a plethora of various Jewish sources.
    It is not canonical, nor even truly theological.
    Again, because I have said this to you before, "Legends" does it mean that it is false it is a compilation from other sources.

    "1001 Arabian Nights" is not even an Islamic source and then you dare to compare it with the Jewish source I presented?

    You are comical.

    Ezekiel's Temple has already been built:

    Ezekiel 43:5

    2nd Chronicles 5:13

    Haggai 2:5-7 especially verse 7.


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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    History,

    This is what it says:

    by Louis Ginzberg [1909].
    This is a huge collection of traditional stories which have grown up around the Bible narrative.
    More info to refute your comical nonsense:


    The Legends of the Jews

    By Louis Ginzberg

    [1909]

    This is a massive collation of the Haggada--the traditions which have grown up surrounding the Biblical narrative. These stories and bits of layered detail are scattered
    The Legends of the Jews

    By Louis Ginzberg

    [1909]

    This is a massive collation of the Haggada--the traditions which have grown up surrounding the Biblical narrative. These stories and bits of layered detail are scattered throughout the Talmud and the Midrash, and other sources, including oral. In the 19th century Ginzberg undertook the task of arranging the Haggada into chronological order, and this series of volumes was the result.
    Probably, you need to read more carefully before you make a statement against your own sources.

    Hasan

    Ezekiel's Temple has already been built:

    Ezekiel 43:5

    2nd Chronicles 5:13

    Haggai 2:5-7 especially verse 7.


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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Farouk,

    History is a ardent Zionist Jew with no sense.

    Dear farouk,
    Thank you for your post.

    Quote:
    Asalamualaykum,
    Of course there is no Creater besides Allah and Allah has no rival either (according to Islam too). What is meant by shirk is that the person is making partners with God, not that there are partners. Like I said before worshipping God as well as Jesus (as) would be considered shirk. Muslims say Dear farouk,
    Thank you for your post.
    Quote:
    Asalamualaykum,
    Of course there is no Creater besides Allah and Allah has no rival either (according to Islam too). What is meant by shirk is that the person is making partners with God, not that there are partners. Like I said before worshipping God as well as Jesus (as) would be considered shirk. Muslims say "La Ilaha Illa Allah wahdahu la sharika (partner) lahu" which translates to "There is no god but God. Wahdahu (meaning only Him), without any partners".
    Farouk,

    History denies the obviuous and tries to twist everything which is presented and is clearly in denial of the TRUTH which is Islam.

    Ezekiel's Temple has already been built:

    Ezekiel 43:5

    2nd Chronicles 5:13

    Haggai 2:5-7 especially verse 7.


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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Quote Originally Posted by tricky View Post
    That's a good question!
    I don't know how far the worship of Gods go back. The planet is 5 billion years old and man has been here about one million years.

    The ancient world did not worship the God we believe in today and I am quite sure you know that.
    You say Mankind is a million years old, then why is it we only have historical record of civilisations go back only to 10,000 years, max 15,000 years.

    There were many false Gods in the ancient world, such as Zues, Baal, Marduk, but there was always a portion of humanity who worshipped the One True God (and they have been called Muslims).

    So in every generation there were Muslims. The Bani Israel were once Muslim.

    This is the Islamic perspective.

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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr ®hizomati© View Post
    Yes, but Arabic bibles didn't exist until long after the establishment of Islam. Since we muslimuun call God Allah it only seems reasonable that we would publish Arabic bibles with the word Allah in place of God!
    And why would Muslims be publishing Bibles?

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    Re: Allah and Yahweh are the Same

    [removed by me]

 

 

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