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  1. #1
    أنا مسلم AbuMubarak's Avatar
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    The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    (16:32:42) الغرباء: salam
    (16:34:24) الغرباء logged out.



    (06:24:56) الغرباء: http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?p=123828#post123828
    (06:25:14) أبو مبارك: السلام عليكم
    (06:25:33) الغرباء: walaykum asalam brother
    (06:25:51) أبو مبارك: i cant see that page
    (06:25:58) أبو مبارك: i am not a registered member of mpacuk
    (06:26:34) الغرباء: oh ok
    (06:27:00) الغرباء: these people r a joke
    (06:27:00) الغرباء: they love democracy
    (06:27:00) الغرباء: and belive voting is jihad
    (06:27:09) الغرباء: they hate those who call for shariah
    (06:27:20) أبو مبارك: we have them on ummah.com
    (06:27:21) الغرباء: say kawarij are the ones who call for law of allah
    (06:27:34) أبو مبارك: not many, alhamdulillah
    (06:27:40) أبو مبارك: but they too are part of this ummah
    (06:27:41) الغرباء: but they are silenced.. on their forum they attacked ummah.com for being ectremem lol
    (06:27:45) أبو مبارك: and they either help or hurt the ummah
    (06:27:51) أبو مبارك: until the muslims stand for islam
    (06:28:03) الغرباء: true
    (06:28:04) الغرباء: im on their forum
    (06:28:05) أبو مبارك: they say ummah.com is extremist?
    (06:28:05) الغرباء: trying to discuss
    (06:28:09) الغرباء: but they swear insult
    (06:28:29) الغرباء: tyes they called ummah.com extremist for attacking mpacs ideas
    (06:28:46) أبو مبارك: akhi, i dont want to call them kafirs, but if they do not have the adab of the prophet as an example, what do you expect from them but insults?
    (06:28:59) أبو مبارك: i didnt know so many people listened to ummah.com
    (06:29:03) أبو مبارك: alhamdulillah
    (06:29:33) الغرباء: bro trust me
    (06:29:37) الغرباء: im on their forum
    (06:29:45) الغرباء: they swear at me
    (06:29:47) الغرباء: call me names
    (06:29:51) الغرباء: degrade me
    (06:29:53) الغرباء: call me mad
    (06:29:55) الغرباء: looney
    (06:30:02) أبو مبارك: you are an extremist fundamentalist with militant radical ideas
    (06:30:10) أبو مبارك: an islamist
    (06:30:15) أبو مبارك: who practices islamism
    (06:30:18) الغرباء: they want to fit into western ulture
    (06:30:20) أبو مبارك: but then again, all good muslims are
    (06:30:23) أبو مبارك: yes akhi
    (06:30:24) أبو مبارك: we know that
    (06:30:34) الغرباء: there was a progrme on tv last nite
    (06:30:35) أبو مبارك: and these idiots have worked hard to come up with this new approach
    (06:30:42) الغرباء: tariq ramadhan going around europe
    (06:30:51) الغرباء: saying we should adapt to western life
    (06:30:52) أبو مبارك: can you believe that there are people who sit around and try to figure out how to thwart the growth of islam?
    (06:30:55) الغرباء: change so to fit in
    (06:31:02) أبو مبارك: yes akhi
    (06:31:11) أبو مبارك: because the west is superior to islam
    (06:31:12) الغرباء: of course there are akhi
    (06:31:15) أبو مبارك: in their eyes
    (06:31:24) أبو مبارك: the sad thing akhi
    (06:31:34) أبو مبارك: is that there are muslims who came before us who will have to answer for this
    (06:31:34) الغرباء: they sit and plan and plot on how to destroy the rise of islam
    (06:31:49) الغرباء: allah is the best of planners
    (06:31:49) أبو مبارك: because of their short-sightedness, they led the ummah into this path
    (06:32:08) أبو مبارك: this is why it is incumbent upon every muslim to strive hard to practice correct islam
    (06:32:12) الغرباء: true
    (06:32:17) أبو مبارك: because your deeds not only effect you, but those after you
    (06:32:21) الغرباء: exactly akhi
    (06:32:24) أبو مبارك: a brother and i were discussing kissing the quran
    (06:32:30) الغرباء: they get help from the government
    (06:32:34) أبو مبارك: he asked, what is wrong with kissing the quran
    (06:32:38) الغرباء: to spread western version of islam
    (06:32:45) أبو مبارك: i said akhi, there is nothing wrong with YOU kissing the quran
    (06:32:51) أبو مبارك: its when others see you and imitate you
    (06:33:03) أبو مبارك: with your generation, they may look at it as a nice thing to do
    (06:33:11) أبو مبارك: the next generation will consider it sunnah
    (06:33:17) أبو مبارك: and after that, they will make it fard
    (06:33:22) الغرباء: true
    (06:33:33) أبو مبارك: so a muslim will be considered a kafifr for not kissing the quran
    (06:33:34) الغرباء: thats how idol worshipping came about
    (06:33:40) أبو مبارك: exactly
    (06:33:47) أبو مبارك: each group chips a little at the deen
    (06:33:56) أبو مبارك: and these guys do not look beyond their petty achievements
    (06:34:00) أبو مبارك: so they want muslims to vote
    (06:34:08) أبو مبارك: which is not a bad thing, but it leads to worse
    (06:34:14) الغرباء: true
    (06:34:16) أبو مبارك: if it was a one time thing, it wouldnt be a problem
    (06:34:22) أبو مبارك: but no, from there, you set a precedence
    (06:34:39) الغرباء: they tend to judge with their own ration rather than look at quran and sunnah
    (06:34:49) أبو مبارك: exactly
    (06:34:57) أبو مبارك: so they see benefit today
    (06:35:06) أبو مبارك: but in essence it is taking away from the muslims
    (06:35:12) أبو مبارك: we are supposed to be holding strong to islam
    (06:35:20) أبو مبارك: but instead they are weakening the muslims
    (06:35:45) أبو مبارك: if you look at the history of the muslims in andalusia
    (06:35:47) أبو مبارك: the same thing
    (06:36:00) أبو مبارك: they took the short road to success and wound up destroying the muslims
    (06:36:20) أبو مبارك: they let petty differences between muslims result in befriending the kuffar, which destroyed the muslims
    (06:36:55) أبو مبارك: there were muslim governors who chose to seek protection from the christian kings against the muslims
    (06:36:56) الغرباء: TRUE
    (06:37:01) أبو مبارك: and if you look today, they are doing the samething
    (06:37:06) الغرباء: AKHI I SUED TO THINK BEFORE HOW CAN THEY DESTROY ISLAM
    (06:37:12) أبو مبارك: befriending russia
    (06:37:13) الغرباء: BUT LOOK HOW THEY DONE IT IN THE PAST
    (06:37:17) أبو مبارك: befriending bush and the usa
    (06:37:18) الغرباء: USED MUSLIMS AGASINT EACH OTHER
    (06:37:20) الغرباء: SAME NOW
    (06:37:22) أبو مبارك: exactly
    (06:37:32) أبو مبارك: egypt is closer to the usa than it is to pakistan
    (06:37:41) أبو مبارك: and pakistan is closer to the usa than it is to egypt
    (06:37:43) الغرباء: may allah guide us all
    (06:37:45) أبو مبارك: amin
    (06:37:49) الغرباء: true
    (06:37:50) أبو مبارك: but we must strive for guidance
    (06:38:00) الغرباء: they fear the kuffar rahter than to fear allah
    (06:38:01) أبو مبارك: we cant seek misguidance and ask to be guided
    (06:38:07) الغرباء: look at self interest and benefit
    (06:38:12) الغرباء: rather than stand up for islam
    (06:38:27) أبو مبارك: exactly, so you see the situation of the muslims today is a direct result of muslims of the past leading the ummah to this path of humiliation
    (06:38:35) أبو مبارك: so now today, we have mpacuk doing the same thing
    (06:38:43) أبو مبارك: as is the leaders of the muslim world
    (06:39:03) أبو مبارك: each party looking at whatever benefit they can get, and no one looking toward the quran the sunnah and whats best for the ummah
    (06:39:32) الغرباء: very true
    (06:39:52) أبو مبارك: I am going to cut and paste this chat in ummah.com, ok?
    (06:40:09) الغرباء: ok bro
    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
    دولة الإسلامية باقية






  2. #2
    sysadmin ting baba's Avatar
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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    My one main gripe with MPAC is the way they attack and make fun of other Muslim groups.

    We're supposed to be working together for good in the world, not throwing insults at each other and further splitting an already divided Ummah.

    It reminds me of those who attack Imam Al-Ghazali because he concentrated on educating the ignorant Muslims rather than going on jihad.

    We cannot abandon adab and other teachings of Islam just because "we have to do something quickly or the kuffar will get us!!!" We will be questioned about every action we do. In Islam, the end never justifies the means.

    When my dad first saw MPACUK's clean-shaven leader many years back, he had a funny feeling about him. I thought my dad was being unreasonable at the time, but his feelings were confirmed by a later article in Q-News from a former MPAC member (the title was something about whether the end justifies the means).

    My advice to everyone is that if you find a Muslim group that speaks bad about other Muslims, stay away from it. A Muslim should never think himself superior to another Muslim.

    We Muslims desperately need to do constructive work in a world full of evil, we really cannot waste time destroying ourselves.
    respect refugees

  3. #3
    Senior Member slaveofalmajeed's Avatar
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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    May Allah guide us all!

    Ameen

    Quote Originally Posted by baba
    We cannot abandon adab
    That has to be said of all groups too.
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    Senior Member Big_H99369's Avatar
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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuMubarak
    (06:30:42) الغرباء: tariq ramadhan going around europe
    (06:30:51) الغرباء: saying we should adapt to western life.
    He sure understand al wala wal baraa (refering to tariq ramadan)
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  5. #5
    sysadmin ting baba's Avatar
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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    I'm reserving my judgement - a figure of speech, I know Muslims should not judge - on Tariq Ramadan til I hear him speak later this month.
    respect refugees

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    The byron of irony Makki's Avatar
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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    it is not MPAC's ideas i disagree with necessarilly, i mean they are standing up for Palestine and too many muslims are not, its just their methods make me feel uncomfortable. i feel uneasy with any muslim who rushes outside after jumah to hand out leaflets and shout abuse at elders for not doing this and not doing that, it seems like they are at jumah for MPACUK or Hizb ut-tahrir or whoever else it is rather than Allah subhana wa t'ala.
    Quote Originally Posted by hypocrite
    Bidah! Shirk! Murtard! Kufr! Man i hate the kuffar so much, i hate this country. I care much more about my brothers and sisters in Islam than you, because i say i do. Thats why i live here, claim benefits and moan when my dole payment is late.

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    sysadmin ting baba's Avatar
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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Yep I totally agree with you there. Their aims are good, but their problem is that they think the end justifies the means. It doesn't.
    respect refugees

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    أبو حمزة Salman Al-Farsi's Avatar
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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    its a bit like pear drop, you have to suck it in to understand.
    "The objective behind Shari'ah is to liberate individuals from his desires in order to be a true Abd (slave) of Allah and that is the legitimate Maslaha... Violating the Shari'ah under the pretext of following Maqasid al-Shari'ah is like the one who cares about the spirit without the body and since the body without the spirit is useless therefore the spirit without the body is useless too." ~ Imam Shatibi - The greatest intellectual founder of Maqasid al-Shari'ah

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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    mpac echo imam ghazali and tabligh jamat
    its the muslims who need to reform
    same words different methods
    whenever muslims are told to self reflect we become self righteous
    muslims are part of the problem
    im with mpac ghazali and tabligh
    im all for self reformation
    but at the same time just because muslims are weak doesnt give the right to bullies to attack us
    even ghazal and rumi (maulana) i may add were called mad
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    No certainly NOT a sister Abu' Maryam's Avatar
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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah



    The following are links to articles that decisively finish off the filth of the Modernist Liberal trash:

    http://www.as-sahwah.com/articles.php?subcatID=52&

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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu' Maryam


    The following are links to articles that decisively finish off the filth of the Modernist Liberal trash:

    http://www.as-sahwah.com/articles.php?subcatID=52&

    Imam Ghazali updated the thinking of the then Muslims who were very conservative and backwards. He modernised them according to his times. Now the present day conservative scholars again want to keep Muslims backwards to his time. It's time some modern scholars must study the needs of the modern time, learn modern subjects and update Muslims with the guiding principles of Islam and bring them at par with the rest of the world. Afterall we've not to waste ourselves fighting with the modern world. We've to compete with them and take the lead.
    Last edited by maskeen; 03-05-06 at 01:33 AM.

  12. #12
    tux08902
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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Modernists are destructively open to changes in society. The West wasn't always like this. The 1960s and the Hippies changed all of this. What was a short-lived "phenomenon" was first rejected by American families and then accepted in the 1970s. That's how Western society became so unsophisticated; abortion, acceptance of pre-marrital sex, acceptance of homosexuality, "free love", drugs, those were all the negative aspects of that era that changed Western society for ever. The 1980s saw a revival movement started by United States Congressional wives to go back to traditional family values. But all that came of that was mandatory sex and substance education in schools.

    Muslims need to move forward in the world, but they shouldn't want or have to shun Islamic values to do so. Extreme openness is another enemy of religion in general and a sophisticated social structure.

  13. #13
    أنا مسلم AbuMubarak's Avatar
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    رد : Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by maskeen
    Imam Ghazali updated the thinking of the then Muslims who were very conservative and backwards. He modernised them according to his times. Now the present day conservative scholars again want to keep Muslims backwards to his time. It's time some modern scholars must study the needs of the modern time, learn modern subjects and update Muslims with the guiding principles of Islam and bring them at par with the rest of the world. Afterall we've not to waste ourselves fighting with the modern world. We've to compete with them and take the lead.
    give me an example of a "present day conservative scholar" who wants to keep the muslims backwards?

    give me an example of what modern scholars should direct the muslims to update them with modern subjects with the guiding principles of islam, and bringing them "on par" with the people of the fire

    muslims need to keep up with the kuffar?

    we have the lead, who else is inviting people to the oneness of Allah and the sunnah of Muhammad صلى ألله عليه و سلم
    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
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  14. #14
    Guardian Hijab
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    Re: رد : Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Wait a minute, you guys are bashing modernists?

    Isn't that why you're upset about them bashing "islamist" or whatever they call normal practising muslims.

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    The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuMubarak
    give me an example of a "present day conservative scholar" who wants to keep the muslims backwards?

    give me an example of what modern scholars should direct the muslims to update them with modern subjects with the guiding principles of islam, and bringing them "on par" with the people of the fire

    muslims need to keep up with the kuffar?

    we have the lead, who else is inviting people to the oneness of Allah and the sunnah of Muhammad صلى ألله عليه و سلم
    In old times when Muslims made amazing progress in many fields of life, the scholars were not only learned in religion but they were more learned in many science subjects that were known as modern subjects at those times. Those modern subjects were taught in madrisas and the graduates of the madrisas were known as mullahs. Now the present day madrisas still produce mullahs but of another kind. They don't teach them modern subjects. Rather they teach them how to prove that modern subjects are bad. How the modernists are polluting Islam and things like this. This is the job they're doing to keep the Muslims backwards.

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    Senior Member MAD.MECHANIC's Avatar
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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by maskeen
    In old times when Muslims made amazing progress in many fields of life, the scholars were not only learned in religion but they were more learned in many science subjects that were known as modern subjects at those times. Those modern subjects were taught in madrisas and the graduates of the madrisas were known as mullahs. Now the present day madrisas still produce mullahs but of another kind. They don't teach them modern subjects. Rather they teach them how to prove that modern subjects are bad. How the modernists are polluting Islam and things like this. This is the job they're doing to keep the Muslims backwards.
    there is a difference the classical scholars never innovated ideas and introduced them into Islam. there is nothing wrong with learning modern subjects such as mathematics and sciences but these modernists are trying to reform Islam which is unacceptable no classical scholar dared to utter such things so i beg to differ on that account

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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by MAD.MECHANIC
    there is a difference the classical scholars never innovated ideas and introduced them into Islam. there is nothing wrong with learning modern subjects such as mathematics and sciences but these modernists are trying to reform Islam which is unacceptable no classical scholar dared to utter such things so i beg to differ on that account
    Islam is is very wide and open religion especially when it comes to the development of mankind. It's has some limits and restrictions also but those are for blocking the evil.

    The difference in the approach of conservatives and modernists is that conservatives try to block every new thing using the restrictions of Islam; whereas some modernists are trying to introduce every new thing using the liberties given by Islam. Extremes in both sides are not good. We need to strike a blance. If something new is beneficial to the mankind then restictions of Islam shouldn't be imposed to block its way; and if something is really harmful for mankind, then it should be stopped.

    It's seen in the history that conservatives always opposed new things in the name of Islam but when later on other nations made progress using those modern techniquies, then these conservatives also started using those things, some of them even go to the extent by saying that this invention was already mentioned in Quran. A simple example is of the loud speaker. When it was first used in some Muslim countries, the conservative religious scholars opposed it by declaring it an instrument of Iblees. Now it's the conservative religious who use it most.

    A smart Muslim scholar is the one who evalutes the new inventions or technologies well ahead of time and recommends its use so that Muslims make a timely progress before other nations. A good scholar is the one who not only promotes new products but the one who invents new things.
    Last edited by maskeen; 03-05-06 at 02:36 PM.

  18. #18
    heeelllllpppppppp!!!!!!!! Al-ghurabah's Avatar
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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by maskeen
    Islam is is very wide and open religion especially when it comes to the development of mankind. It's has some limits and restrictions also but those are for blocking the evil.

    The difference in the approach of conservatives and modernists is that conservatives try to block every new thing using the restrictions of Islam; whereas some modernists are trying to introduce every new thing using the liberties given by Islam. Extremes in both sides are not good. We need to strike a blance. If something new is beneficial to the mankind then restictions of Islam should be imposed to block its way and if something is really harmful for mankind, then it should be stopped.

    It's seen in the history that conservatives always oppose new things in the name of Islam but when later every other nation makes progress using those modern techniquies, then these conservatives also start using those things, some of them even go to the extent by saying that this invention was already mentioned in Quran. A simple example is the loud speaker. When it was first used in some Muslim countries, the conservative religious scholars by declaring an instrument of Iblees. Now it's the conservative religious who use it most.

    A smart Muslim scholar is the one who evalutes the new inventions or technologies well ahead of time and recommends its use so that Muslims make a timely progress before other nations.
    there is a diffrence betweenaccepting new techological gadget or thing. than trying to reform islam change it so its compatible with western lifestyle.. this is not allowed. nothing wrong with buying new hybrid car. but there is something wrong with saying the hudood laws do not apply anymore..

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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by Al-ghurabah
    there is a diffrence betweenaccepting new techological gadget or thing. than trying to reform islam change it so its compatible with western lifestyle.. this is not allowed. nothing wrong with buying new hybrid car. but there is something wrong with saying the hudood laws do not apply anymore..
    Don't worry. Nobody can change Islam. Allah has promised that Quran cannot be changed. All of Islam is in Quran. Trust in Allah and stop worrying about Islam. Allah never does anything against His promise. Don't get depressed by the hue and cry of those few professionals who try to become the maternal uncles (maamay) of Islam.

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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by Al-ghurabah
    nothing wrong with buying new hybrid car. but there is something wrong with saying the hudood laws do not apply anymore..
    As far as their statement about Hudood laws is concerned, I agree to their point of view. Some religious professionals insist on imposing Hudood Laws on public, but they don't want to apply these laws on themselves. Have you ever seen Hudood laws applied on any religious professional who is involved in some crime? (Don't say that all of them are angels and none of the religious professionals ever committed any crime in his life). Therefore, this is right that practically Hudood laws do not apply any more.

    In some Muslim countries, some Hudood laws have been used to punish some convicts but they hardly helped in reducing those kind of crimes. Islam should not be used only as punishment but it should be used to make positive results. If somebody tries to change the ineffective or useless interpretations of the conservatives, then they start crying that Islam is being changed.

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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by maskeen
    Imam Ghazali updated the thinking of the then Muslims who were very conservative and backwards. He modernised them according to his times. Now the present day conservative scholars again want to keep Muslims backwards to his time. It's time some modern scholars must study the needs of the modern time, learn modern subjects and update Muslims with the guiding principles of Islam and bring them at par with the rest of the world. Afterall we've not to waste ourselves fighting with the modern world. We've to compete with them and take the lead.
    Wait A Minute is This The Same "Maskeen" That Was Accusing Imam Abu Hanifah,Imam Shafi,Imam Hanbal,Imam Malik Of Being Paid Scholars?

    And Now You Are Talking About Scholars???



    "The `Aalim knows who is a Jaahil, because he used to be a Jaahil before. But the Jaahil does not know who is an `Aalim, because he was never an `Aalim before."


    Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullaah in Majmoo`ul Fataawaa.



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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by maskeen
    Don't worry. Nobody can change Islam. Allah has promised that Quran cannot be changed. All of Islam is in Quran. Trust in Allah and stop worrying about Islam. Allah never does anything against His promise. Don't get depressed by the hue and cry of those few professionals who try to become the maternal uncles (maamay) of Islam.
    And in Sunnah of Muhammed (sav)
    Sehadeth is a message to all generations and ages.... Sheheed Metin Yuksel....

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    رد : Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    maskeen

    you seem to be mixing islamic history with christian history

    there is no enmity between science and technology and advancements with islamic thought, whether modern or classical

    the typical "should we ride camels" argument is flimsical at best, the prophet appreciated technological advances, whether from the kuffar or the muslim

    i know of no muslim who advocates returning to the stone age

    but what i do see are a bunch of pseudo-muslims advocating following the lead of the kuffar and not appreciative of the wealth and strength and superiority of islam, these are the people who are advocating reforming islam, these are the people who want to keep the muslims in a state of humiliation

    muslims have been unashamedly immitating the kuffar for the past 500 years, we wear their clothes, we adopt their currency, we spend vast amounts of money sending our children to their schools to teach our muslim children their kufr, and what has it gotten us?

    poverty, misery, humiliation and musharraf

    is that not a sign to you that we have had enough of immitation of the kuffar and these calls by westernized muslims to follow the kuffar into a lizard's hole
    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
    دولة الإسلامية باقية






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    رد : Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by maskeen
    Don't worry. Nobody can change Islam. Allah has promised that Quran cannot be changed. All of Islam is in Quran. Trust in Allah and stop worrying about Islam. Allah never does anything against His promise. Don't get depressed by the hue and cry of those few professionals who try to become the maternal uncles (maamay) of Islam.
    we all know that islam cannot change

    what we are discussing is the approach and application of islam amongst the muslims

    shaving beards, abandoning hijab, or even abdicating hudood are vices that the westernized muslim advocates as reforming islam

    its not islam anyone wants to or even has the capability to reform, its the application of islam that is important
    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
    دولة الإسلامية باقية






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    Re: رد : Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuMubarak
    we all know that islam cannot change

    what we are discussing is the approach and application of islam amongst the muslims

    shaving beards, abandoning hijab, or even abdicating hudood are vices that the westernized muslim advocates as reforming islam

    its not islam anyone wants to or even has the capability to reform, its the application of islam that is important
    You and me agree at least on point on this thread that it's the application of islam that is important. The only difference is that I support those scholars who apply islam for the benefit of general Muslims or the public whereas you support those conservative scholars who interpreted for the benefit of dictators. Those scholars were given big names and were promoted by the dictators whereas you don't like to discuss scholars like iben e khaldoon, bo ali sina, razi etc.

    keeping beards is not mandatory in Islam but leaving the beard untrimmed is. It's only a sunnah to keep the beards at some particular size. Some people trim it according to the sunnah whereas some like to trim it altogether. this doesn't harm islam in case if some people shave it cleanly. it doesn't spread any evil or disease. does it? Similarly hijab is not mandatory. Do you know when and why hijab was introduced for Muslim ladies? Do you also know which kind of Muslim ladies were given the privilge to wear the hijab? Do you also the kind of Muslim ladies who were warned not to use hijab by khalifa Omar Farooq (RA)?

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    رد : Re: رد : Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    maskeen

    i dont know whether its old age, or time on these forums, but i figured you were full of stew some time ago

    today, you confirmed it

    any muslim who debates/denies the hijab is either totally ignorant of islam or on a mission to deny islam

    same thing with the beard

    and i pretty sure the more we talk, the more deviancy you will expose

    you guys never change, though it seems you are taking longer and longer to expose yourselves

    i dont have time nor inclination to debate islam with you, if you want to learn islam, read about the life of the prophet (seerah) and his sunnah and quran

    other than that, i dont have much to debate islam with you, you clearly do not respect islamic principles, thus, this conversation between us is completed
    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
    دولة الإسلامية باقية






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    Re: رد : Re: رد : Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuMubarak
    maskeen

    i dont know whether its old age, or time on these forums, but i figured you were full of stew some time ago

    today, you confirmed it

    any muslim who debates/denies the hijab is either totally ignorant of islam or on a mission to deny islam

    same thing with the beard

    and i pretty sure the more we talk, the more deviancy you will expose

    you guys never change, though it seems you are taking longer and longer to expose yourselves

    i dont have time nor inclination to debate islam with you, if you want to learn islam, read about the life of the prophet (seerah) and his sunnah and quran

    other than that, i dont have much to debate islam with you, you clearly do not respect islamic principles, thus, this conversation between us is completed
    very true bro sometimes its best to leave the discussion or else you will only cause them to speak and utter kuffr or shirk..
    may allah guide us all inshallah

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    Re: رد : Re: رد : Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuMubarak
    maskeen

    i dont know whether its old age, or time on these forums, but i figured you were full of stew some time ago

    today, you confirmed it

    any muslim who debates/denies the hijab is either totally ignorant of islam or on a mission to deny islam

    same thing with the beard

    and i pretty sure the more we talk, the more deviancy you will expose

    you guys never change, though it seems you are taking longer and longer to expose yourselves

    i dont have time nor inclination to debate islam with you, if you want to learn islam, read about the life of the prophet (seerah) and his sunnah and quran

    other than that, i dont have much to debate islam with you, you clearly do not respect islamic principles, thus, this conversation between us is completed
    I am not denying hijab. This is a debatable issue. Asking a question is the right of every Muslim. You're not a Muslim if you try to snub other Muslims and take away their right to discuss. I am telling you from the history of Islam that some Muslim women were stopped from using hijab by hazrat Omar Farooq (RA). You could ask me the details if you heard it for the first time. But trying to snub like criminals is not a Muslim way of talking.

    Same is with the beard. It's a personal matter to follow or not to follow a Sunnah.

    As far as modernization is concerned I don't support it if it's followed blindly. But to show arrogance against every new and modern knowledge or facility and to use all the teachings of Islam to keep Muslims at a stand still position is also not right. As educated Muslims we need to discuss all matters carefully.

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    Re: رد : Re: رد : Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by maskeen
    I am telling you from the history of Islam that some Muslim women were stopped from using hijab by hazrat Omar Farooq (RA). You could ask me the details if you heard it for the first time
    What Are The Details?



    "The `Aalim knows who is a Jaahil, because he used to be a Jaahil before. But the Jaahil does not know who is an `Aalim, because he was never an `Aalim before."


    Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullaah in Majmoo`ul Fataawaa.



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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    No wonder you guys are so far behind. You would argue the length of string until the cows came home. Maskeen seems the most sensible Muslim on here.
    Never mind I'm sure you will have finished this argument by the time we are colonizining Mars.

  31. #31
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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Where Is All This From??? In The First Post??

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    Re: رد : Re: رد : Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by abu musab
    What Are The Details?
    I think it'll take us away from the original topic of the thread if we start discussing every reference in detail here. I'd like you to open a seperate thread or I'll open it for this topic seperately. Let other brothers and sisters who are differing with me show their interest on this new issue.

    This topic is about modernisation which is very important. Let me break this topic down to the following set of issues. Let me know which one you support.

    1. As Muslims we should completely oppose every modern invention, lifestyle or knowledge.

    2. As Muslims we should blindly adopt the modern lifestyle and use all modern inventions.

    3. As Muslims we should selectively adopt the modern lifestyle and modern inventions but shouldn't develop modern knowledge in Muslims and keep them away in developing their own technology.

    4. As Muslims we should do all kinds of new experiments and learn the benefits and drawbacks of everything and develop our own technology from our own first hand experiences.

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    Re: رد : Re: رد : Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by maskeen
    I think it'll take us away from the original topic of the thread if we start discussing every reference in detail here. I'd like you to open a seperate thread or I'll open it for this topic seperately. Let other brothers and sisters who are differing with me show their interest on this new issue.

    This topic is about modernisation which is very important. Let me break this topic down to the following set of issues. Let me know which one you support.

    1. As Muslims we should completely oppose every modern invention, lifestyle or knowledge.

    2. As Muslims we should blindly adopt the modern lifestyle and use all modern inventions.

    3. As Muslims we should selectively adopt the modern lifestyle and modern inventions but shouldn't develop modern knowledge in Muslims and keep them away in developing their own technology.

    4. As Muslims we should do all kinds of new experiments and learn the benefits and drawbacks of everything and develop our own technology from our own first hand experiences.
    Maskeen, Muslims use cars, fly on planes, become pilots, become doctors, live in modern houses, use modern appliances, play sports, have a laugh within the bounderies of Islam...is tht not good enough?

    The problem is when people say leaving ur Deen is part of becoming modern and going with the times. What the hells wrong if i walk around in Sunnah libaas with a beard and observe my daily prayers and good conduct with people i meet..is tht harming anyone??? whats wrong if the sisters OPT to wear hijab to for fear of Allah and for their own safety..is tht harming anyone? is tht cave stuff for u??


    the reality is when Muslims say become "modern" they tryna say hey come on, people will frown upon us for practically living as a muslim and being proud of it..and tht i dnt wanna get my head kicked in by some anti-islam skinhead so better than tht wud be to just follow ALL their ways and blend in with them. Well if thts what u wanna do then go ahead but then dont try coming here telling others to leave their ways for not having the bloody..excuse my francais...THE BALLS to follow every aspect of deen urself!

    If people cant find it in themselves to observe the practical sides of deen then so be it, but to come here out of GUILT i would say and try to find daleels to pursuade others to join you to comfort yourself bloomin ticks me right off!!!!!
    Last edited by Qa'Qa bin Amr; 03-05-06 at 07:52 PM.


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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by G-HaD-Ta-Raaza
    Where Is All This From??? In The First Post??
    It Was A Msn Conversation AbuMubarak Had With Someone.



    "The `Aalim knows who is a Jaahil, because he used to be a Jaahil before. But the Jaahil does not know who is an `Aalim, because he was never an `Aalim before."


    Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullaah in Majmoo`ul Fataawaa.



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    Re: رد : Re: رد : Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by maskeen
    I think it'll take us away from the original topic of the thread if we start discussing every reference in detail here. I'd like you to open a seperate thread or I'll open it for this topic seperately. Let other brothers and sisters who are differing with me show their interest on this new issue.
    Then Create A New Thread And Explain It.



    "The `Aalim knows who is a Jaahil, because he used to be a Jaahil before. But the Jaahil does not know who is an `Aalim, because he was never an `Aalim before."


    Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullaah in Majmoo`ul Fataawaa.



  36. #36
    Jangli_Zemaryan
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    Icon14 Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by abu musab
    It Was A Msn Conversation AbuMubarak Had With Someone.
    Baraka'Allahu Feek brother.

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    Re: رد : Re: رد : Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by Emelianenko
    Maskeen, Muslims use cars, fly on planes, become pilots, become doctors, live in modern houses, use modern appliances, play sports, have a laugh within the bounderies of Islam...is tht not good enough?

    The problem is when people say leaving ur Deen is part of becoming modern and going with the times. What the hells wrong if i walk around in Sunnah libaas with a beard and observe my daily prayers and good conduct with people i meet..is tht harming anyone??? whats wrong if the sisters OPT to wear hijab to for fear of Allah and for their own safety..is tht harming anyone? is tht cave stuff for u??


    the reality is when Muslims say become "modern" they tryna say hey come on, people will frown upon us for practically living as a muslim and being proud of it..and tht i dnt wanna get my head kicked in by some anti-islam skinhead so better than tht wud be to just follow ALL their ways and blend in with them. Well if thts what u wanna do then go ahead but then dont try coming here telling others to leave their ways for not having the bloody..excuse my francais...THE BALLS to follow every aspect of deen urself!

    If people cant find it in themselves to observe the practical sides of deen then so be it, but to come here out of GUILT i would say and try to find daleels to pursuade others to join you to comfort yourself bloomin ticks me right off!!!!!
    Using cars, flying planes, becoming doctors and pilots and living in modern homes in not all modernism. This is only consuming the modern products or technology. If our deen doesn't stop us from becming the consurmers of modern scinece, then how it stops us from becoming the developers or producers of it? Our problem is that some religious scholars who know nothing about science or technology give big fatwas and statements about science and technology. If we've to make progress in other fields then we've to keep our religious scholars from interferring in departments other than religious departments.

    I've observed that the western people are more religious than Muslims. The number of churces and temples in western cities and villages is greater than the number of mosques in our countries. They respect their religious scholars too. But the good thing about them is that they don't let their religious scholars interfere in every department with fatwas and religious statements.

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    Re: رد : Re: رد : Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by maskeen
    I've observed that the western people are more religious than Muslims. The number of churces and temples in western cities and villages is greater than the number of mosques in our countries. They respect their religious scholars too. But the good thing about them is that they don't let their religious scholars interfere in every department with fatwas and religious statements.
    Then Why Dont You Join Them And Follow Their Religion?



    "The `Aalim knows who is a Jaahil, because he used to be a Jaahil before. But the Jaahil does not know who is an `Aalim, because he was never an `Aalim before."


    Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullaah in Majmoo`ul Fataawaa.



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    Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by G-HaD-Ta-Raaza
    Baraka'Allahu Feek brother.
    Wa Iyyaaka.



    "The `Aalim knows who is a Jaahil, because he used to be a Jaahil before. But the Jaahil does not know who is an `Aalim, because he was never an `Aalim before."


    Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullaah in Majmoo`ul Fataawaa.



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    Re: رد : Re: رد : Re: The Evils of Modernists and how they pollute the Ummah

    Quote Originally Posted by abu musab
    Then Why Dont You Join Them And Follow Their Religion?
    good post akyh, may Allah give you shehadeh...
    Sehadeth is a message to all generations and ages.... Sheheed Metin Yuksel....

 

 

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