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  1. #1
    1of the volatile beings myeverything's Avatar
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    Lightbulb For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Umm Fatimah View Post
    With all due respect marry for yourself and not because you feel you are doing a down-and-out sister a favour. You are not some type of saviour and if you feel that way it will negatively impact on her feelings to you. A distant relative of mine did this after the Iraqi war (marrying widows with children) and each marriage lasted only a short time. He felt they were "ungrateful" for him marrying them and they were too demanding within their status (ie as a widow with 8 children she should just be grateful with a husband, a house and food and not want anything else) but they didn't see themselves as charity cases so felt he was looking down at them. His children suddenly saw a lot less of him and their financial life halved. Although his wife was fine with it I can't minimize the tension it caused within the family.


    I just thought It's good to shed light on this issue and that married men who consider it should be educated on this matter.

    I notice that many men marry divorcees with kids or widows; thinking inside they doing charity ( of course they didn't mention it to the women,otherwise they won't accept to marry them)

    They enter this marriage with weird expectations. They expect that these women to accept less at every level and be grateful 24/7 for them marrying her .. which is insane. Then, when they get married they discover that she's just a woman like any other wife, behaving in a normal way ( not seeing herself as a charity case) wants what normal wife usually want .. they shocked and be like " u not being grateful that I married u .. blah blah .."

    and the problems start, because he in the first place didn't inter the marriage with good intention ..

    something makes me wonder if they really want the reward from Allah or from the women themselves?
    or they choose these women, in particular, thinking they can have extra woman for barely nothing .. if she's divorced or widow?

    dunno what exactly in their heads but whatever was it .. they should be clear about it to avoid future disappointment and destruction of others lives .. etc
    How merciful Allah on me by giving me respite,and I persist in my sins and Allah shields me

  2. #41
    Umm Kulthoom Rumaysah~'s Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Sisters are to blame too, are we going to ignore the fact that so many of you wouldn't accept your 'equal' as a co-wife. If there is ever to be a another wife you want her to be an old widow with 10 kids, you make it as if these are the only women your husbands can marry after you, you yourself (us sisters) see them as charity cases,
    "oh my husband is helping her out" lol,
    "the sister was in need, she couldn't find a husband",
    "if there was a woman in need and my husband could look after her, then I would be ok with it".
    but all hell breaks loose if he marries a young attractive girl whose not 'in need' of anything, now he's evil and "only cares about his own desires". Maybe he married her for the same reasons he married the first wife.

    If you want second wives to stop being seen as charity cases, sisters stop talking about them in such a negative way, side chicks, home wreckers, in need, etc.
    Some sisters themselves think their co-wife should just be grateful that someone is looking after her with all her kids and baggage. I'm sorry but both sides are to blame for this one.
    شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
    فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
    وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
    ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

  3. #42
    -.-" Cptn._.Mario's Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
    Why didn't they choose a woman who was never married before then? did someone hold a gun up to their head and force them to accept a divorcee or a widow?
    They could have. If all the males did that then where would the other women go?
    It's not right to make others pay for your choices but like what stoic said, the feeling is naturally there.
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  4. #43
    Odan Gingerbeardman's Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    That's true. But usually such men keep this attitude/ mentality hidden, for fearing to scare the woman out, not accepting him ..or for whatever reason. They only show it after marriage.

    Although, sometimes there 're some signs, situations or red flags that can give a woman glimpse of how he views her even before the marriage.. but it's not always the case, mostly they hide it, as i mentioned earlier.



    I think this topic is important. A great number of Muslim men who consider polygamy with ( divorcee / widows) need to be educated about this matter. I haven't seen it discussed here before. Maybe u can write something about it in your blog @Gingerbeardman
    Maybe I've got a slightly different take on things and can certainly add it to the growing list of things which need blogging on...

    I totally get your point about men marrying certain women then expecting gratitude, it's thoroughly reprehensible and I've seen it again and again, right from the times I was first being told to get married 15 years ago when I reverted, and people said to marry an orphan... that way she is not only grateful but has no family to go back to if I mistreat her. Yes this was the advise from some 'practicing' brothers.

    So this is not something new, and I doubt it was new then and men have been thinking like this for a long time and taken to the extreme it's way marriage bandits and those with controlling, or even narcissistic personality traits might target the widows and divorcees (as well as reverts) is because they expect them to be grateful, and tell them how great they are, that they to some level know they are crappy males so having someone less likely to run away when that is exposed, and feel they have to stay and make it work is a big plus for them.

    So some men stink at this stuff, but here is where I might part company with some of you. Though their motivation is wrong, I don't see anything wrong in a good, stable man marrying someone with less advantages in life or downright suffering and seeing that as an act of charity on his part, but the messed up matter of his motivation is that if he is doing it for the reasons listed in the above couple of paragraphs then he's already destroyed his good deeds, he's done it for the dunya, not the akhirah.

    The reward in an act of charity is with Allah, we destroy our deeds as soon as you start reminding the recipient of our generosity and cashing in on that upper hand you have and often because it is a power dynamic not only are we capable of destroying our act of charity, we are capable when we do this of being a dhalim and I see this again and again with new Muslims who go through marriage difficulties, the non-revert spouse will almost always bring up the fact they even married them as if it was some sort of favour which is a currency they feel they are deserving of being paid for the rest of the lives and it is outrageous this new Muslim (or widow / divorcee / orphan) might not do so.

    So yes, it can be a charity to marry one person over another, but that is for the sake of Allah, not for ourselves and our own advantage, and as soon as we are married our spouses should be treated with all the dignity, respect and love that any other wife would want, that they deserve and should if not given demand from their husbands.

    Once again, marriage is about building the other person up, making a better relationship through both individuals working together to improve, not just one doing the other down to feel bigger or better about themselves and people with those attitudes need to stay out of marriage to anyone never-mind marriage to someone who has already had difficulties in their life.
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  5. #44
    Umm Kulthoom Rumaysah~'s Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Cptn._.Mario View Post
    They could have. If all the males did that then where would the other women go?
    It's not right to make others pay for your choices but like what stoic said, the feeling is naturally there.
    The other women would find men who don't think that way or they would marry single men
    شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
    فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
    وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
    ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

  6. #45
    Odan Gingerbeardman's Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Sister_2009 View Post
    A couple of points here:

    All of the bolded above will be affected by his feelings about a woman and her past and whether he views her as a charity case.

    Majority of men here are either not married or, if married, not looking into polygamy.

    So, while it is an interesting topic of sorts, I don’t feel it’s a discussion that is applicable to this site, nor can we discuss this topic without considering feelings.
    Trust me, the majority of men, whether married or unmarried still have polygamy on their minds at times even if they are perhaps more realistic and know it's unlikely in their case.

    So it is applicable, as it is possible the opportunity could come there way, so better they get their heads in the right place now than rush into things and make even more of a mess of it later on.
    Last edited by Gingerbeardman; 09-11-17 at 05:20 AM.
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  7. #46
    Odan Gingerbeardman's Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
    Marrying second wife is hardly Common, at least in the west.

    I don't know a single Brother who has a second wife.

    I do know some who married Divorcees, (Divorcee Brothers and Sisters) and none of them have any such expectations as above.

    I know plenty of brothers who have tried to marry again with a 2nd wife, I also know most of them fail and lose one or both wives in the process.
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  8. #47
    -.-" Cptn._.Mario's Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
    The other women would find men who don't think that way or they would marry single men
    Good luck finding the don't think that way guy. Like I said, it's beyond anyone's control. What's important is whether he acts upon it or not.
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  9. #48
    Odan Gingerbeardman's Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
    Sisters are to blame too, are we going to ignore the fact that so many of you wouldn't accept your 'equal' as a co-wife. If there is ever to be a another wife you want her to be an old widow with 10 kids, you make it as if these are the only women your husbands can marry after you, you yourself (us sisters) see them as charity cases,
    "oh my husband is helping her out" lol,
    "the sister was in need, she couldn't find a husband",
    "if there was a woman in need and my husband could look after her, then I would be ok with it".
    but all hell breaks loose if he marries a young attractive girl whose not 'in need' of anything, now he's evil and "only cares about his own desires". Maybe he married her for the same reasons he married the first wife.

    If you want second wives to stop being seen as charity cases, sisters stop talking about them in such a negative way, side chicks, home wreckers, in need, etc.
    Some sisters themselves think their co-wife should just be grateful that someone is looking after her with all her kids and baggage. I'm sorry but both sides are to blame for this one.
    May Allah reward you sister, as you point out here the problem is with women as well as men. We're all guilty of creating this problem to see extent.
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  10. #49
    Odan
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    You know ..I think the problem here with some men and not women.

    Because the ungrateful woman who not acknowledging that the man bring some form of assistance/relief etc will just be ungrateful, regardless whether being 1st or 4th...

    In other words, women marital status changes nothing in her thinking, nature, character and way of dealing with husband.

    But It's some men who change their thinking, nature, character and their way of dealing with wife, according to the woman marital status. They think that a divorcee/ widow should be more grateful than other wife ..etc ( as I mentioned in my previous post) which is totally wrong and big misconception that many Muslim men unfortunately have in mind when considering marrying with divorcee or widow.
    Fully agreed

  11. #50
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Kya View Post
    When he decides to marry her, he should not think of it as "favour" because in truth she is also doing him a "favour" by allowing him to be part of her family. Before marriage he can think whatever he wants & everyone has their reasons. but after marriage it should be gratefulness from both parts. If the intention is still there, sooner or later some day it wil come out. Human are not made to hide things in our heart from those close to us. It will come out, better not to think of it as favour at all
    the bottom line is this that... whether it's marriage one or four... Marriage is contract of mutual benefit... Whatever that ebenfit is will differ from person to person.

    There should be gratitiude on both sides.

  12. #51
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Eorlingas View Post
    In essence what your saying is that ungrateful and demanding women will never change no matter what...thanks for the heads up
    this my friend is one of the realities of life... sadly...

  13. #52
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    I fully agree with OP that no one should be made to feel inferior.
    I would tend to think that expectations from women might change after marriage as well. While I do not have first hand experience of this, in terms of marriage, I have myself felt this way in a job situation. Some time ago I had applied to be put in a senior position when I knew that the organization did not have the budget for it. I was willing to work for same salary, as I was getting on a lesser position, head at that time told me that after a while when you are actually doing the work you will not feel this way, and that’s exactly what happened. Few months later I felt I am I getting less than others on same grade when I can do a better job than them. And I left the organization in just 6 months, instead of 2 years that was the initial plan.

  14. #53
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Um_Saf View Post
    Yes Alhamdulillah all men who accept responsibilities of another mans children are amazing. Its something that inshaAllah I will have to deal with if I remarry.
    But such a "favour" shouldn't be spoken about or used to control the women. Such a good deed should be done solely for the reward of Allah (SAW) and the wellbeing and happiness of the children and wife. Intention is the biggest factor to consider here.

    Having already been in an abusive marriage it makes me extremely anxious that this might happen again. For example that I will be reminded of how big a charity I am and therefore I should accept anything or less than others would- it makes a person feel worthless to hear a spouse say and think these things. Its why that I am starting to think that perhaps I should not 100% be relying on anyone anymore, because if you put yourself in a vulnerable position-male or female- then you are open to being controlled or abused because of the same vulnerability. Its the sad reality.

    The fast majority of widows and divorcees now are just like me.
    I don't need charity and I can manage alone Alhamdulillah- I just don't want to be alone-the same as everyone else, male/female, single/divorced/widowed.
    (A women can work and take care of herself, just the same as man can take care of himself if needed. There are also many single parents out there whom manage perfectly well alone SubhanAllah). Almost everyone marries mainly for companionship, unless they are blindly matericalistic. At least I think so anyway.

    A good example as already pointed out is Khadjah (RA). She was a women who worked and supported herself on her own means. She turned many wealthy men down for marriage and she was the one asked prophet (PBUH) to marry her as she had love for him. Such a women should be proof that divorced women should not be seen as simply charity but as a women in need of affection and respect the same as a single women. The rights are the same regardless of status. She should not need to show more gratitude then any other wife.
    As i said marriage is a contract of mutual benefit...

    What that benefit or "favour" is will differ from person to person

    It shouldnt be thrown in faces nor should it be taken for granted on both sides.

  15. #54
    Senior Member Scrooge's Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    very difficult specially with the monies, if lots of kids involved

  16. #55
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
    Sisters are to blame too, are we going to ignore the fact that so many of you wouldn't accept your 'equal' as a co-wife. If there is ever to be a another wife you want her to be an old widow with 10 kids, you make it as if these are the only women your husbands can marry after you, you yourself (us sisters) see them as charity cases,
    "oh my husband is helping her out" lol,
    "the sister was in need, she couldn't find a husband",
    "if there was a woman in need and my husband could look after her, then I would be ok with it".
    but all hell breaks loose if he marries a young attractive girl whose not 'in need' of anything, now he's evil and "only cares about his own desires". Maybe he married her for the same reasons he married the first wife.

    If you want second wives to stop being seen as charity cases, sisters stop talking about them in such a negative way, side chicks, home wreckers, in need, etc.
    Some sisters themselves think their co-wife should just be grateful that someone is looking after her with all her kids and baggage. I'm sorry but both sides are to blame for this one.
    Yes 100% I don't know why I didn't mentioned that before. JazakAllah khairan for pointing it out.

    Many sister cannot comprehend or accept the fact that it is a right of their husbands to have more wives-and they do not need a say in the decision (if he is able and willing). How many times have sisters said "I could never share?".

    That could potentially destroy their own marriage through anger/bitterness/fear and jealousy (even when they had a good marriage before). To ease their jealousy they sometimes see the "new" women as inferior to them in someway causing the husband to struggle with expectations and his responsibilities. Thus tension in the first marriage may end up making the co wife go without as she's the "charity" so should be grateful and accepts for anything never mind equal and also to help her husband "cope". On the flip side many first wives are also "forgotten" as he tries to have a good relationship with the second.

    Polygamy is hard simply because there's 3 emotions happening. The worst thing a brother could do is pretend it will be easy or rush into it. you don't want to end up with two failed marriage. But on the flip side the wives involved also need to realise that their role plays just as big a part in a successful polygamy situation. The mans test is fairness, the women's is controlling jealousy (no matter which wife you are.) Its a team effort Alhamdulillah.

    Lets not forget that Prophets marriages were not always easy and his wives were often jealous. But also remember the kindness they had for one another too. Sawda (RA) give her nights to Ashia (RA) because she said she was less in need for companionship because of her old age and she only wanted to be prophets wife on the day of raising. In that act she created a huge friendship with her co-wife and pleased her husband. SubhanAllah.

    "Sauda bint Zam’a gave up her (turn) day and night to Aisha, the wife of the Prophet in order to seek the pleasure of Allah’s Apostle (by that action).” (Bukhari)
    Aisha said about Sawda, “never did I find any woman more loving to me than Sawda bint Zam’a. I wished I could be exactly like her”. (Muslim"

  17. #56
    1of the volatile beings myeverything's Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
    Sisters are to blame too, are we going to ignore the fact that so many of you wouldn't accept your 'equal' as a co-wife. If there is ever to be a another wife you want her to be an old widow with 10 kids, you make it as if these are the only women your husbands can marry after you, you yourself (us sisters) see them as charity cases,
    "oh my husband is helping her out" lol,
    "the sister was in need, she couldn't find a husband",
    "if there was a woman in need and my husband could look after her, then I would be ok with it".
    but all hell breaks loose if he marries a young attractive girl whose not 'in need' of anything, now he's evil and "only cares about his own desires". Maybe he married her for the same reasons he married the first wife.

    If you want second wives to stop being seen as charity cases, sisters stop talking about them in such a negative way, side chicks, home wreckers, in need, etc.
    Some sisters themselves think their co-wife should just be grateful that someone is looking after her with all her kids and baggage. I'm sorry but both sides are to blame for this one.

    I totally disagree with this post/ view. Trying to make the first wife part of the problem is not true. I'm being objective and realistic here.


    Simply because the 1st wife views of the 2nd wife and vice versa( should be) irrelevant. The 1st and 2nd wives aren't partners/ spouses. They have zero rights/ obligations/ and responsibilities upon each others. They're nobody to each others. All is on the husband.

    As for 1st wife negative views of the 2nd wife argument, actually u bring nothing new. It's a very old known/ common fact. Wives always will get jealous of their co- wives. It's in their nature.

    - Aisha got jealous of Khadejah ( May Allah be pleased with them both) even after her death. She said to the prophet ( peace be upon him) that Khadejah was an old woman and that Allah has replaced u with a better wife i.e herself.
    - And in another situation she made a gesture with her hand to show that Safiyyah( May Allah be pleased with her)was short.

    The point is: women will be women. They mostly don't want share their husbands and if there is ever to be another wife, they want her to be less than them( in their minds/ thinking of course)and even if she isn't, they will pretend/ claim/ imagine that she's less than them to make themselves feel better lolz

    Back to the core of the topic: Are you saying that 1st negative views of the 2nd wife can affect/ influence the way the husband views/ value/ appreciation/ expectations of his second wife ( who's divorcee or widow)?

    If yes. Then surely this man not man enough ( for lack of better word) and the 2nd marriage not for him. Because he's weak in character, his head can be easily turned against his 2nd wife. He allows his 1st wife to control his relation with his 2nd wife and even more dictate him how to view, deal with her ..etc. In this case, technically the 2nd wife married to the 1st wife and not to the man^^

    See .. It's all back to the man and all in his hands, after Allah Almighty. And even if the 1st wife is a devil in person. She can't affect the 2nd wife's quality of married life and relation with her husband at the slightest, unless the man is quite useless/ pushover and allow it to happen.

    Bottom lines: women, in general, whether they're ( 1st wife or any female family member) can be part of the problem in ONE and ONLY case "If the man is extremely weak"
    Last edited by myeverything; 09-11-17 at 10:47 AM.
    How merciful Allah on me by giving me respite,and I persist in my sins and Allah shields me

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    I totally disagree with this post/ view. Trying to make the first wife part of the problem is not true. I'm being objective and realistic here.


    Simply because the 1st wife views of the 2nd wife and vice versa( should be) irrelevant. The 1st and 2nd wives aren't partners/ spouses. They have zero rights/ obligations/ and responsibilities upon each others. They're nobody to each others. All is on the husband.

    As for 1st wife negative views of the 2nd wife argument, actually u bring nothing new. It's a very old known/ common fact. Wives always will get jealous of their co- wives. It's in their nature.

    - Aisha got jealous of Khadejah ( May Allah be pleased with them both) even after her death. She said to the prophet ( peace be upon him) that Khadejah was an old woman and that Allah has replaced u with a better wife i.e herself.
    - And in another situation she made a gesture with her hand to show that Safiyyah( May Allah be pleased with her)was short.

    The point is: women will be women. They mostly don't want share their husbands and if there is ever to be another wife, they want her to be less than them( in their minds/ thinking of course)and even if she isn't, they will pretend/ claim/ imagine that she's less than them to make themselves feel better lolz

    Back to the core of the topic: Are you saying that 1st negative views of the 2nd wife can affect/ influence the way the husband views/ value/ appreciation/ expectations of his second wife ( who's divorcee or widow)?

    If yes. Then surely this man not man enough ( for lack of better word) and the 2nd marriage not for him. Because he's weak in character, his head can be easily turned against his 2nd wife. He allows his 1st wife to control his relation with his 2nd wife and even more dictate him how to view, deal with her ..etc. In this case, technically the 2nd wife married to the 1st wife and not to the man^^

    See .. It's all back to the man and all in his hands, after Allah Almighty. And even if the 1st wife is a devil in person. She can't affect the 2nd wife's quality of married life and relation with her husband at the slightest, unless the man is quite useless/ pushover and allow it to happen.

    Bottom lines: women, in general, whether they're ( 1st wife or any female family member) can be part of the problem in ONE and ONLY case "If the man is extremely weak"
    But that is the core issue... many men who do get into polygamy aren't suitable to deal with the reality of it. They may have a peaceful fantasy that the women in his life will be happy to accept the situation he imagines, the first wife sees it as"charity" the second etc sees him as a "saviour to her".
    The reality of how difficult it is becomes too much for him to fulfil, thus leading to divorce/s.

    I think sometimes the true ruling of polygamy is often lost and brothers think the right is for everyone who has the desire/financial means for it-forget the emotional/physiological impact. Also he might "sell" other marriages to his wife as a great charity/reward to them both, in doing so he gives her opinion that the subsequent marriage/s is inferior to her own to lessen her pain of "sharing".

    At the same time the jealousy is a natural response but also one all sisters should try to control, the prophet PBUH corrected his wives when they said something against another wife. However you feel about someone let it be confined to your heart and mind. The fact is that the marriages will somehow affect each other to some degree. Maybe the co-wife needs him on your night/ any difficulties for him come home with him.

    its difficult for all for different reasons. understanding and respect for one another is important.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    I read this advice from islamqa saying a man is not obliged to tell his second wife that he is already married, before marrying her, unless asked. https://islamqa.info/en/115751 I was wondering, if the same applies to a widow? Is she obliged to tell she has been married, if she's not asked? Or a divorcee? I can honestly say that the question never came up when I was asking my wife and her father for permission to marry her. Neither of us asked. It simply never came up, we kept talking about our future together, not our history apart.
    I have never been able to understand why it seems to be important if a woman has been married before or not.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Gingerbeardman View Post
    Trust me, the majority of men, whether married or unmarried still have polygamy on their minds at times even if they are perhaps more realistic and know it's unlikely in their case.

    So it is applicable, as it is possible the opportunity could come there way, so better they get their heads in the right place now than rush into things and make even more of a mess of it later on.
    No, it isn’t applicable. I have been posting here for years and have been involved in far too many polygamy threads. Their only purpose is one of causing arguments amongst people who will not face this lifestyle.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    Back to the core of the topic: Are you saying that 1st negative views of the 2nd wife can affect/ influence the way the husband views/ value/ appreciation/ expectations of his second wife ( who's divorcee or widow)?

    If yes. Then surely this man not man enough ( for lack of better word) and the 2nd marriage not for him. Because he's weak in character, his head can be easily turned against his 2nd wife. He allows his 1st wife to control his relation with his 2nd wife and even more dictate him how to view, deal with her ..etc. In this case, technically the 2nd wife married to the 1st wife and not to the man^^

    See .. It's all back to the man and all in his hands, after Allah Almighty. And even if the 1st wife is a devil in person. She can't affect the 2nd wife's quality of married life and relation with her husband at the slightest, unless the man is quite useless/ pushover and allow it to happen.

    Bottom lines: women, in general, whether they're ( 1st wife or any female family member) can be part of the problem in ONE and ONLY case "If the man is extremely weak"
    The problem isn't only first wives but sisters in general. It starts way before the 'charity case' (2nd wife) even comes into the picture. It's crazy to think that the 1st wife's opinions/views don't affect the man's second marriage. Some women go as far as using their children to get their way and pressurise their husbands. It's even more crazy to say that the 1st wife and 2nd wife have nothing to do with each other. Of course they do, you can't pretend your co-wife doesn't exist, you have children who are the siblings of her children. Maybe things are different in saudi, but here, there has to be co-operation. Since when was everything always the husband's fault in a monogamous marriage? so why is this the case in a polygamous marriage? it's not.

    Jealousy is one thing, the mothers of the believers had jealousy but in no way does it compare to the madness some women are doing today under the excuse of jealousy. Some go as far as attempting murder. Women will be women is not an excuse. You can't blame everything on men.The prophet's wives did not see each other as charity cases neither did any of them act like the others didn't exist. In the west 2nd wives are known as home wreckers and desperate women, by a lot of sisters themselves.

    Yes I am saying that it influences men, of course it does. We all have a share in the blame. It doesn't even have to be within a marriage, we are all affected by these common opinions before marriage. Women influence the men in their families a lot especially their sons and their husbands plus the influence from society and the environment. The only men we praise are actually the ones you're complaining about, the ones who think that the second wife should be grateful he even accepted her. That's because deep down a lot of sisters carry the same mentality and want their husbands to have this mentality too if he ever considers marrying again, why? because it works out for her. You will never call it weakness of character when it's your husband putting you before your co-wife. We encourage the behaviour then wonder why it's happening to other women.

    There was the incident that happened with the honey in the household of the messenger, the prophet was not weak.
    شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
    فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
    وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Gingerbeardman View Post
    I know plenty of brothers who have tried to marry again with a 2nd wife, I also know most of them fail and lose one or both wives in the process.
    Is this because they didn't seek permission from the first?

    Or some other reason?
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
    The problem isn't only first wives but sisters in general. It starts way before the 'charity case' (2nd wife) even comes into the picture. It's crazy to think that the 1st wife's opinions/views don't affect the man's second marriage. Some women go as far as using their children to get their way and pressurise their husbands. It's even more crazy to say that the 1st wife and 2nd wife have nothing to do with each other. Of course they do, you can't pretend your co-wife doesn't exist, you have children who are the siblings of her children. Maybe things are different in saudi, but here, there has to be co-operation. Since when was everything always the husband's fault in a monogamous marriage? so why is this the case in a polygamous marriage? it's not.

    Jealousy is one thing, the mothers of the believers had jealousy but in no way does it compare to the madness some women are doing today under the excuse of jealousy. Some go as far as attempting murder. Women will be women is not an excuse. You can't blame everything on men.The prophet's wives did not see each other as charity cases neither did any of them act like the others didn't exist. In the west 2nd wives are known as home wreckers and desperate women, by a lot of sisters themselves.

    Yes I am saying that it influences men, of course it does. We all have a share in the blame. It doesn't even have to be within a marriage, we are all affected by these common opinions before marriage. Women influence the men in their families a lot especially their sons and their husbands plus the influence from society and the environment. The only men we praise are actually the ones you're complaining about, the ones who think that the second wife should be grateful he even accepted her. That's because deep down a lot of sisters carry the same mentality and want their husbands to have this mentality too if he ever considers marrying again, why? because it works out for her. You will never call it weakness of character when it's your husband putting you before your co-wife. We encourage the behaviour then wonder why it's happening to other women.

    There was the incident that happened with the honey in the household of the messenger, the prophet was not weak.
    Exactly, they will influence- the incident of the honey.

    Is that when one wife gave prophet PBUH honey as she knew he like it, and two other wives were jealous of the gesture, so agreed they would tell that his mouth stunk of sweetness and they couldn't stand the smell. So after they said that prophet PBUH promised to not eat the honey again? (I vaguely recall reading it but I don't remember which wives it was involving- I think Fatima gave the honey?)

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Larsal View Post
    I read this advice from islamqa saying a man is not obliged to tell his second wife that he is already married, before marrying her, unless asked. https://islamqa.info/en/115751 I was wondering, if the same applies to a widow? Is she obliged to tell she has been married, if she's not asked? Or a divorcee? I can honestly say that the question never came up when I was asking my wife and her father for permission to marry her. Neither of us asked. It simply never came up, we kept talking about our future together, not our history apart.
    I have never been able to understand why it seems to be important if a woman has been married before or not.
    The man is not required to seek approval/permission from first wife. The condition is that he is just between his wives.

    I'm sure the man will already know if the potential is a Divorcee, and the sister should not have a inferiority complex about the situation as she was in a legitimate marriage.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Um_Saf View Post
    Exactly, they will influence- the incident of the honey.

    Is that when one wife gave prophet PBUH honey as she knew he like it, and two other wives were jealous of the gesture, so agreed they would tell that his mouth stunk of sweetness and they couldn't stand the smell. So after they said that prophet PBUH promised to not eat the honey again? (I vaguely recall reading it but I don't remember which wives it was involving- I think Fatima gave the honey?)
    Ya Allah sorry it was Zaynab (RA) who gave the honey I think.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
    The man is not required to seek approval/permission from first wife. The condition is that he is just between his wives.

    I'm sure the man will already know if the potential is a Divorcee, and the sister should not have a inferiority complex about the situation as she was in a legitimate marriage.

    The quote is not about seeking permission from the first wife, it is about not telling the second wife to be, that there is a first wife already.

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    1of the volatile beings myeverything's Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
    The problem isn't only first wives but sisters in general. It starts way before the 'charity case' (2nd wife) even comes into the picture. It's crazy to think that the 1st wife's opinions/views don't affect the man's second marriage. Some women go as far as using their children to get their way and pressurise their husbands. It's even more crazy to say that the 1st wife and 2nd wife have nothing to do with each other. Of course they do, you can't pretend your co-wife doesn't exist, you have children who are the siblings of her children. Maybe things are different in saudi, but here, there has to be co-operation. Since when was everything always the husband's fault in a monogamous marriage? so why is this the case in a polygamous marriage? it's not.

    Jealousy is one thing, the mothers of the believers had jealousy but in no way does it compare to the madness some women are doing today under the excuse of jealousy. Some go as far as attempting murder. Women will be women is not an excuse. You can't blame everything on men.The prophet's wives did not see each other as charity cases neither did any of them act like the others didn't exist. In the west 2nd wives are known as home wreckers and desperate women, by a lot of sisters themselves.

    Yes I am saying that it influences men, of course it does. We all have a share in the blame. It doesn't even have to be within a marriage, we are all affected by these common opinions before marriage. Women influence the men in their families a lot especially their sons and their husbands plus the influence from society and the environment. The only men we praise are actually the ones you're complaining about, the ones who think that the second wife should be grateful he even accepted her. That's because deep down a lot of sisters carry the same mentality and want their husbands to have this mentality too if he ever considers marrying again, why? because it works out for her. You will never call it weakness of character when it's your husband putting you before your co-wife. We encourage the behaviour then wonder why it's happening to other women.

    There was the incident that happened with the honey in the household of the messenger, the prophet was not weak.
    Thank u for bringing the honey story up.

    of course the prophet ( peace be upon him ) wasn't weak in character, far from him. Actually, if anything this honey story confirms the main points I've mentioned in my previous post.

    - women will be women, expect jealousy among co - wives. ( P.S we not speaking of sick extreme jealousy that turn a person into criminal ( u mentioned murder^^) we talking about the normal jealousy that all women have it,even the wives of the prophet( May Allah be pleased with them).
    - Polygamy requires a strong man in character, like the prophet, peace be upon him, not a weak man who whenever he goes to one of his wives, she successfully turned his head and views of his other wife^^

    Let me break it down to you in this way.

    The honey story refers to the women's jealousy more that anything else. Prophet ( peace be upon him) abstain from drinking honey itself to please his wives, but didn't stop viewing his wife i.e the one he drank honey at her house, the same and started viewing/ treating her less only because of the views of her co- wives.

    In other words, their opinion/ view didn't affect his views/ way of dealing with his wife. Only a weak man will do and the prophet( peace be upon him) is not.

    A man can take his wife opinion into consideration and strives to please her( in halal stuff of course), which is good gesture actually and nothing wrong with that, but not when it's about putting her co- wife down.There's a fine line between the two areas and the weak man can't handle such situation i.e to be husband to 2 wives.

    c'mon it's common sense .. no need to try hard to fault women. The man is the core issue when it comes to treating divorcee/ widow 2nd wife less.


    Anyways,I think I exhausted this topic discussion and make my point of view quite clear .. I hope men when consider going down this road learn something good out of this thread


    Have a nice evening everyone
    Last edited by myeverything; 09-11-17 at 05:09 PM.
    How merciful Allah on me by giving me respite,and I persist in my sins and Allah shields me

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Gingerbeardman View Post
    May Allah reward you sister, as you point out here the problem is with women as well as men. We're all guilty of creating this problem to see extent.
    I believe the problem can be solved if only we could be upright enough to only opt for polygamy if we were honest about being open to it while we agreed on the terms of our first nikah. Polygamy may be an option for men, but it is in no way obligatory for women.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    There is another side to this. Some men make out they are having problems with the first wife but can't divorce her because of family, children and whatever other excuse the man can think off. So the second wife thinks she is doing the husband a favour. Like kind of rescuing him thinking she is his ideal wife.

    Sometimes it just happens men there are no problems in the first marriage but to marry another woman he makes out lies.

    I live in the UK and polygamy is common. Unfortunately so are the increased number of divorces that happened as a result of polygamy.
    Last edited by Mintchocchip; 09-11-17 at 10:40 PM.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Larsal View Post
    I read this advice from islamqa saying a man is not obliged to tell his second wife that he is already married, before marrying her, unless asked. https://islamqa.info/en/115751.
    Honestly some of the fatwas on that site. So how would he go about dividing his nights between the wives. I would consider that deception if he didn't tell he is already married.

    What are they thinking when they come out with fatwas like that? Is it men doing it for the benefit of men? Would the Prophet (saw) have done such a thing?

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Larsal View Post
    The quote is not about seeking permission from the first wife, it is about not telling the second wife to be, that there is a first wife already.
    Ok, I thought I'd make I clear that permission isn't required, us you right h should have told his fist wife.

    Wether he's Obligated or not I don't know.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Larsal View Post
    I believe the problem can be solved if only we could be upright enough to only opt for polygamy if we were honest about being open to it while we agreed on the terms of our first nikah. Polygamy may be an option for men, but it is in no way obligatory for women.
    I embraced Islam knowing polygamy was part of it, I am pretty certain everyone including all the women here know when they enter marriage this is always an option later on if the right circumstances exist so it should not be expressively agreed upon, but rather if sisters really wish not to, they need to make clear they don't want it, and expect to be rejected by some guys if that is the case.
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
    Is this because they didn't seek permission from the first?

    Or some other reason?
    I don't know a single one who was successfully who sought permission from his wife, rather they consulted. However I do know plenty who knowing their wives would object, kept things sneaky and hidden to the last moment or even until after the 2nd nikkah, they had failure written right at the beginning.

    As for others, they lacked justice, or they lacked manhood. A man with these two traits can make polygamy work.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Sister_2009 View Post
    No, it isn’t applicable. I have been posting here for years and have been involved in far too many polygamy threads. Their only purpose is one of causing arguments amongst people who will not face this lifestyle.
    OK, let me put it this way. Option of polygamy comes up, most guys, the overwhelming majority if they have an opinion with advise their brother to just go for it. This is going to be the standard default position and it's wrong and it's destructive.

    So if you're happy with your husband / future husband if not married 'just going for it' then ban discussion of this topic from your life. If however you feel it's a little more important a topic than this and touches upon major issues of how marriage is seen by Muslims then please allow us some discussion on it.
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Gingerbeardman View Post
    I don't know a single one who was successfully who sought permission from his wife, rather they consulted. However I do know plenty who knowing their wives would object, kept things sneaky and hidden to the last moment or even until after the 2nd nikkah, they had failure written right at the beginning.

    As for others, they lacked justice, or they lacked manhood. A man with these two traits can make polygamy work.

    https://gingerbeardmansite.wordpress...gamy-catch-22/
    Well they don't have to seek approval/consent/permission, so they did no wrong there.

    If they lacked manhood, then they weren't fit to marry in the first place, and if they lacked justice then they should not even have considered a second wife as Allah tala indicated.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    I totally disagree with this post/ view. Trying to make the first wife part of the problem is not true. I'm being objective and realistic here.


    Simply because the 1st wife views of the 2nd wife and vice versa( should be) irrelevant. The 1st and 2nd wives aren't partners/ spouses. They have zero rights/ obligations/ and responsibilities upon each others. They're nobody to each others. All is on the husband.

    As for 1st wife negative views of the 2nd wife argument, actually u bring nothing new. It's a very old known/ common fact. Wives always will get jealous of their co- wives. It's in their nature.

    - Aisha got jealous of Khadejah ( May Allah be pleased with them both) even after her death. She said to the prophet ( peace be upon him) that Khadejah was an old woman and that Allah has replaced u with a better wife i.e herself.
    - And in another situation she made a gesture with her hand to show that Safiyyah( May Allah be pleased with her)was short.

    The point is: women will be women. They mostly don't want share their husbands and if there is ever to be another wife, they want her to be less than them( in their minds/ thinking of course)and even if she isn't, they will pretend/ claim/ imagine that she's less than them to make themselves feel better lolz

    Back to the core of the topic: Are you saying that 1st negative views of the 2nd wife can affect/ influence the way the husband views/ value/ appreciation/ expectations of his second wife ( who's divorcee or widow)?

    If yes. Then surely this man not man enough ( for lack of better word) and the 2nd marriage not for him. Because he's weak in character, his head can be easily turned against his 2nd wife. He allows his 1st wife to control his relation with his 2nd wife and even more dictate him how to view, deal with her ..etc. In this case, technically the 2nd wife married to the 1st wife and not to the man^^

    See .. It's all back to the man and all in his hands, after Allah Almighty. And even if the 1st wife is a devil in person. She can't affect the 2nd wife's quality of married life and relation with her husband at the slightest, unless the man is quite useless/ pushover and allow it to happen.

    Bottom lines: women, in general, whether they're ( 1st wife or any female family member) can be part of the problem in ONE and ONLY case "If the man is extremely weak"
    Maybe I'm reading it differently, but her post seemed to be more in relation to a sister's attitude towards her co-wife when talking to others, either family or other sisters, co-workers etc which is entirely under her control and would such belittling would fall under backbiting and slander.
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Gingerbeardman View Post
    OK, let me put it this way. Option of polygamy comes up, most guys, the overwhelming majority if they have an opinion with advise their brother to just go for it. This is going to be the standard default position and it's wrong and it's destructive.

    So if you're happy with your husband / future husband if not married 'just going for it' then ban discussion of this topic from your life. If however you feel it's a little more important a topic than this and touches upon major issues of how marriage is seen by Muslims then please allow us some discussion on it.
    It’s been discussed to death. People think about it, sure, but majority on here aren’t entering into polygamous marriages. Of course you can continue to discuss it, as I’m not a moderator here. I simply said it isn’t applicable to majority on this site. And you don’t need to worry about my husband and my life, don’t make things personal. My husband doesn’t hang out online looking for polygamy discussion and advice.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
    Well they don't have to seek approval/consent/permission, so they did no wrong there.

    If they lacked manhood, then they weren't fit to marry in the first place, and if they lacked justice then they should not even have considered a second wife as Allah tala indicated.

    Lecture which I went, Shaykh said, that if husband is clear about wanting 2nd wife, success rate was much better, than not telling 1st wife. So, they can discuss with these issues.

  39. #78
    Odan Gingerbeardman's Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
    Well they don't have to seek approval/consent/permission, so they did no wrong there.

    If they lacked manhood, then they weren't fit to marry in the first place, and if they lacked justice then they should not even have considered a second wife as Allah tala indicated.

    You're meant to make shura with your wives and family about decisions, especially when they affect them. It's not a matter of seeking permission, just letting them know and have their say.
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Gingerbeardman View Post
    You're meant to make shura with your wives and family about decisions, especially when they affect them. It's not a matter of seeking permission, just letting them know and have their say.
    If co-wife knows (not gives permission) even though you may be in the "dog-box" you will still prevent further lies and sin innit?

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    It's funny because I hear more about polygamy outside this forum than I do on the forum. I have to laugh when some of you complain that the topic keeps coming up again and again. Come spend a day here and see what a topic being done to death really looks like. There have been days where I just wanted to run away and cry lol. Point is, a lot of things in life may not be applicable to us now but we still have opinions on those things. It's still good to learn about those things especially when they affect so many others. Some discussions are immature, some are ok like this thread.

    To assume that the only way polygamy can affect someone is if they enter it or are entering it is ignorance. The forum is diverse, polygamy is very much applicable to some of us. Unless you've seen it close up and very frequently it's hard to understand how much pain and damage it causes even to those who are not part of the marriage when it's done wrong *by either the man or the woman*. It would also be hard to see how much benefit it has for both men and women. A lot of problems could be avoided if the youth are taught better, not told "you haven't even married yet, it doesn't apply to you". If you have children, you teach your daughters that it's not ok to speak badly of 2nd wives in general or their co-wives or act like crazy lunatics if their husbands marry again. You teach your sons how heavy the responsibility is. If everybody was prepared and in control of their emotions there would be a lot less disaster cases.
    شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
    فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
    وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
    ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

 

 

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