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  1. #1
    1of the volatile beings myeverything's Avatar
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    Lightbulb For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Umm Fatimah View Post
    With all due respect marry for yourself and not because you feel you are doing a down-and-out sister a favour. You are not some type of saviour and if you feel that way it will negatively impact on her feelings to you. A distant relative of mine did this after the Iraqi war (marrying widows with children) and each marriage lasted only a short time. He felt they were "ungrateful" for him marrying them and they were too demanding within their status (ie as a widow with 8 children she should just be grateful with a husband, a house and food and not want anything else) but they didn't see themselves as charity cases so felt he was looking down at them. His children suddenly saw a lot less of him and their financial life halved. Although his wife was fine with it I can't minimize the tension it caused within the family.


    I just thought It's good to shed light on this issue and that married men who consider it should be educated on this matter.

    I notice that many men marry divorcees with kids or widows; thinking inside they doing charity ( of course they didn't mention it to the women,otherwise they won't accept to marry them)

    They enter this marriage with weird expectations. They expect that these women to accept less at every level and be grateful 24/7 for them marrying her .. which is insane. Then, when they get married they discover that she's just a woman like any other wife, behaving in a normal way ( not seeing herself as a charity case) wants what normal wife usually want .. they shocked and be like " u not being grateful that I married u .. blah blah .."

    and the problems start, because he in the first place didn't inter the marriage with good intention ..

    something makes me wonder if they really want the reward from Allah or from the women themselves?
    or they choose these women, in particular, thinking they can have extra woman for barely nothing .. if she's divorced or widow?

    dunno what exactly in their heads but whatever was it .. they should be clear about it to avoid future disappointment and destruction of others lives .. etc
    How merciful Allah on me by giving me respite,and I persist in my sins and Allah shields me

  2. #81
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
    It's funny because I hear more about polygamy outside this forum than I do on the forum. I have to laugh when some of you complain that the topic keeps coming up again and again. Come spend a day here and see what a topic being done to death really looks like. There have been days where I just wanted to run away and cry lol. Point is, a lot of things in life may not be applicable to us now but we still have opinions on those things. It's still good to learn about those things especially when they affect so many others. Some discussions are immature, some are ok like this thread.

    To assume that the only way polygamy can affect someone is if they enter it or are entering it is ignorance. The forum is diverse, polygamy is very much applicable to some of us. Unless you've seen it close up and very frequently it's hard to understand how much pain and damage it causes even to those who are not part of the marriage when it's done wrong *by either the man or the woman*. It would also be hard to see how much benefit it has for both men and women. A lot of problems could be avoided if the youth are taught better, not told "you haven't even married yet, it doesn't apply to you". If you have children, you teach your daughters that it's not ok to speak badly of 2nd wives in general or their co-wives or act like crazy lunatics if their husbands marry again. You teach your sons how heavy the responsibility is. If everybody was prepared and in control of their emotions there would be a lot less disaster cases.
    Im surprised you missed the point on this one. It isn’t that the topic isn’t important; it’s that the importance, or lack thereof when it applies to majority here, versus the arguments that it causes, coupled with the fact that it’s been discussed to death (anyone who has posted here for any amount of time knows this) makes the repetition of this unhealthy. I could make a thread about getting married and having triplets, throw in a bit about maybe IVF and a surrogate, but that doesn’t apply to me or really anyone here. All that serves to do is make people think and stress, waste their time on something they most likely will never face. If the people here are cool with that, go for it, but when I see the tension start to build, I’m definitely going to speak up.

  3. #82
    1of the volatile beings myeverything's Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    I don't think this thread is a repetition. To me it's unique i.e never seen it discussed in this forum before tbh and that's why I started it.

    Yes we have like millions of threads about polygamy, but this one quite different. It deals with polygamy with certain category of women ( divorcee/ widow).


    The purpose of it is mere educational. Because some Muslim men raised up thinking that women who belongs to this category give way more and expect way less from the husband.

    They don't disclose this thinking/ feeling before marriage, maybe not out of malice, but because they take it as granted fact which is wrong. On the other hand, woman sees herself no less than any wife. Therefore, the tensions and problems hit their marriage. All because of disappointment due to false assumptions and expectations.


    Also, I see no tensions among posters here^^ if anything It's the first time a thread about polygamy goes well and ppl share their input / views in honest and respectful way.

    Some women express their annoyance of this mindset in a direct, honest, and respectful way. On the hands, some men were honest enough to tell that they can't help but feel this way ( less) of divorcee and widow wife. But agree that they, at least, shouldn't act upon it ( i.e this feeling).
    How merciful Allah on me by giving me respite,and I persist in my sins and Allah shields me

  4. #83
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    I don't think this thread is a repetition. To me it's unique i.e never seen it discussed in this forum before tbh and that's why I started it.

    Yes we have like millions of threads about polygamy, but this one quite different. It deals with polygamy with certain category of women ( divorcee/ widow).


    The purpose of it is mere educational. Because some Muslim men raised up thinking that women who belongs to this category give way more and expect way less from the husband.

    They don't disclose this thinking/ feeling before marriage, maybe not out of malice, but because they take it as granted fact which is wrong. On the other hand, woman sees herself no less than any wife. Therefore, the tensions and problems hit their marriage. All because of disappointment due to false assumptions and expectations.


    Also, I see no tensions among posters here^^ if anything It's the first time a thread about polygamy goes well and ppl share their input / views in honest and respectful way.

    Some women express their annoyance of this mindset in a direct, honest, and respectful way. On the hands, some men were honest enough to tell that they can't help but feel this way ( less) of divorcee and widow wife. But agree that they, at least, shouldn't act upon it ( i.e this feeling).
    Unfortunately, it isn’t unique. The above bolded portion is an issue with certain men’s views of women and their past, be it divorce, kids, relationships. That is not exclusive to polygamy. There is visible tension when every other post is attempting to put people back on topic and we result to “what are you on about” comments. A better topic would have been a general one relating to repentance and chastity, and how to overcome looking down on certain women, rather than speaking about polygamy, which makes it more relatable to a wider audience. By making it general advice, you are avoiding the hypothetical nature of polygamy threads. And on that note, I think I’ve spent enough time on this thread.
    Last edited by Sister_2009; 10-11-17 at 04:41 PM.

  5. #84
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Gingerbeardman View Post
    I embraced Islam knowing polygamy was part of it, I am pretty certain everyone including all the women here know when they enter marriage this is always an option later on if the right circumstances exist so it should not be expressively agreed upon, but rather if sisters really wish not to, they need to make clear they don't want it, and expect to be rejected by some guys if that is the case.
    With all respect brother, but I don't completely agree. There are scholars who argue that if we live in a country where polygamy is forbidden under the law, sisters have a right to assume that their husbands will live by the law of the land. And there are scholars who argue that since polygamy is not mandatory while obeying the law in everything that is not contrary to Islam is, we as Muslim men should not practise polygamy under these circumstances.
    I do not claim that these views are correct, by stating them here. I simply claim that it is better for a man to be clear on this issue BEFORE he marries, especially if he lives in a country where polygamy is illegal. This can save everybody a lot of grief further on. And he must be prepared to be rejected if the woman is not willing to be polygamous.

    My wife asked for a non-polygamy clause in the nikah contract. For me that was not a problem. I would not want polygamy for many reasons, one being that since I live in a country where it is illegal I would not be able to avoid being unjust since only one woman could be my legal wife, with all the legal and social benefits of marriage.

  6. #85
    Abu-Tawheed Saif-Uddin's Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Gingerbeardman View Post
    You're meant to make shura with your wives and family about decisions, especially when they affect them. It's not a matter of seeking permission, just letting them know and have their say.
    Shura yes, but to obtain permission from first wife before marrying second wife etc,

    That is not obligated in Islam. Letting them know and have their say, but the husband is not obligated to go by her say.

    Recommended to get approval, but we can't say it's Obligatory.

    https://islamqa.info/en/12544

    If I recall correctly, the only time it would be Obligatory is if she stipulated it in her nikaah contract.

    Allahu Alam.

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  7. #86
    Abu-Tawheed Saif-Uddin's Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by uccello verde View Post
    Lecture which I went, Shaykh said, that if husband is clear about wanting 2nd wife, success rate was much better, than not telling 1st wife. So, they can discuss with these issues.
    Yes true,

    I was Just saying it's not Obligatory to seek approval/permission from first wife.

    The condition is that he has to be just between wives to best of his ability.

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  8. #87
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    He felt they were "ungrateful" for him marrying them and they were too demanding within their status (ie as a widow with 8 children she should just be grateful with a husband, a house and food and not want anything else)
    yeah its pathetic that he had that thought process... but in all honesty what else do women want from their husbands? a house, food, provisions and intimacy is all I require from a husband, I don't want anything else.

  9. #88
    IAMnotLEGEND.
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    I just thought It's good to shed light on this issue and that married men who consider it should be educated on this matter.

    I notice that many men marry divorcees with kids or widows; thinking inside they doing charity ( of course they didn't mention it to the women,otherwise they won't accept to marry them)

    They enter this marriage with weird expectations. They expect that these women to accept less at every level and be grateful 24/7 for them marrying her .. which is insane. Then, when they get married they discover that she's just a woman like any other wife, behaving in a normal way ( not seeing herself as a charity case) wants what normal wife usually want .. they shocked and be like " u not being grateful that I married u .. blah blah .."

    and the problems start, because he in the first place didn't inter the marriage with good intention ..

    something makes me wonder if they really want the reward from Allah or from the women themselves?
    or they choose these women, in particular, thinking they can have extra woman for barely nothing .. if she's divorced or widow?

    dunno what exactly in their heads but whatever was it .. they should be clear about it to avoid future disappointment and destruction of others lives .. etc
    Both party’s entering such a marriage should be aware what they are agreeing too.

    The charity mentality, if its true, is awful, degrading and unacceptable.

    Though the expectation, on both partys, should be realistic.

    If the man has an existing wife, than there is an element of 'sharing' the familys will need to adjust too.

    I think the whole idea of 2nd wife, in the form its practiced today, is quite warped ...the true essence of polygamy is forgotten and the ruined by lots of misunderstandings and abuse by some.
    'Seeking the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.'
    (This slogan is copyright to 247 Products UK).

  10. #89
    Abu-Tawheed Saif-Uddin's Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by aruzo4 View Post
    yeah its pathetic that he had that thought process... but in all honesty what else do women want from their husbands? a house, food, provisions and intimacy is all I require from a husband, I don't want anything else.
    The same sort of argument is posted by those who claim the wife doesn't have to cook or do any chores, basically the man should be happy with the minimum he gets.
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