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    1of the volatile beings myeverything's Avatar
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    Lightbulb For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Umm Fatimah View Post
    With all due respect marry for yourself and not because you feel you are doing a down-and-out sister a favour. You are not some type of saviour and if you feel that way it will negatively impact on her feelings to you. A distant relative of mine did this after the Iraqi war (marrying widows with children) and each marriage lasted only a short time. He felt they were "ungrateful" for him marrying them and they were too demanding within their status (ie as a widow with 8 children she should just be grateful with a husband, a house and food and not want anything else) but they didn't see themselves as charity cases so felt he was looking down at them. His children suddenly saw a lot less of him and their financial life halved. Although his wife was fine with it I can't minimize the tension it caused within the family.


    I just thought It's good to shed light on this issue and that married men who consider it should be educated on this matter.

    I notice that many men marry divorcees with kids or widows; thinking inside they doing charity ( of course they didn't mention it to the women,otherwise they won't accept to marry them)

    They enter this marriage with weird expectations. They expect that these women to accept less at every level and be grateful 24/7 for them marrying her .. which is insane. Then, when they get married they discover that she's just a woman like any other wife, behaving in a normal way ( not seeing herself as a charity case) wants what normal wife usually want .. they shocked and be like " u not being grateful that I married u .. blah blah .."

    and the problems start, because he in the first place didn't inter the marriage with good intention ..

    something makes me wonder if they really want the reward from Allah or from the women themselves?
    or they choose these women, in particular, thinking they can have extra woman for barely nothing .. if she's divorced or widow?

    dunno what exactly in their heads but whatever was it .. they should be clear about it to avoid future disappointment and destruction of others lives .. etc
    How merciful Allah on me by giving me respite,and I persist in my sins and Allah shields me

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    1of the volatile beings myeverything's Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Um_Saf View Post
    100% agree with this, no person wants to be seen or treated like a charity case-that's why I mentioned whether you would be able to treat her and your current wife fairly.
    There are lots to consider beforehand like any marriage, because if you go into it, the decision and consequences will affect all the family members not just the adults.
    Finances are a factor but above all how you manage you relationships are the biggest factor there is. I don't think looking at the potentials status is the best approach for marriage period..Once they are your spouse the responsibilities are the same regardless and fairness and kindness are key.
    True. I think many of them not being clear with the women from the get go .. and that's what bring up unnecessary misunderstanding and problems..

    It's just marriage like any other marriage and she's a woman like any other woman.

    If u expect some sort of marriage that's free from duties and responsibilities( from your side), a wife demanding less or dropping rights ..etc and just be content and grateful with whatever u offer, be clear and honest about it before marriage

    and see what she says and take it from there .. but to keep it hidden in your heart and surprised her with it after marriage is just not wise and not fair ..
    How merciful Allah on me by giving me respite,and I persist in my sins and Allah shields me

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Salaam,

    Maybe there are some men like you describe but I'm sure not all of them are doing it for some ego reason. There are those who sincerely care without weird expectations.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    I just thought It's good to shed light on this issue and that married men who consider it should be educated on this matter.

    I notice that many men marry divorcees with kids or widows; thinking inside they doing charity ( of course they didn't mention it to the women,otherwise they won't accept to marry them)

    They enter this marriage with weird expectations. They expect that these women to accept less at every level and be grateful 24/7 for them marrying her .. which is insane. Then, when they get married they discover that she's just a woman like any other wife, behaving in a normal way ( not seeing herself as a charity case) wants what normal wife usually want .. they shocked and be like " u not being grateful that I married u .. blah blah .."

    and the problems start, because he in the first place didn't inter the marriage with good intention ..

    something makes me wonder if they really want the reward from Allah or from the women themselves?
    or they choose these women, in particular, thinking they can have extra woman for barely nothing .. if she's divorced or widow?

    dunno what exactly in their heads but whatever was it .. they should be clear about it to avoid future disappointment and destruction of others lives .. etc
    I highlighted the very text and commented about men knowing just this.

    On the flip side... whether the wife is 1st ot 4th... the women must realise the part that the men bring in taking care of her needs and that not everything is owed to her.

    For this reason women have been warned about being ungrateful to husbands

    So in my view one sholdnt be making it seem like a favour and on the other the women must acknowledge that the man bring some form of assistance/relief etc and not be ungrateful...

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekoor View Post
    I highlighted the very text and commented about men knowing just this.

    On the flip side... whether the wife is 1st ot 4th... the women must realise the part that the men bring in taking care of her needs and that not everything is owed to her.

    For this reason women have been warned about being ungrateful to husbands

    So in my view one sholdnt be making it seem like a favour and on the other the women must acknowledge that the man bring some form of assistance/relief etc and not be ungrateful...
    Both spouses (and not just the wives) should respect and be grateful to each other as they both do things for each other that without the other they would need to do alone Alhamdulillah-surely that is logical within relationships.

    How many men are also ungrateful to their wive's? I think more men then we perhaps realise are ungrateful and think they are owed praise from just doing the things that are generally seen as normal.
    My own experience was like that. I always thanked for everything he did for me even when he started falling short in his responsibilities I saw the positives yet on the other hand he didn't think I did anything/or realise how much I did to require the same respect I showed him. Its not until your without something you start to appreciate it.

    So being ungrateful affects both sexes in different ways in my opinion.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Um_Saf View Post
    Both spouses (and not just the wives) should respect and be grateful to each other as they both do things for each other that without the other they would need to do alone Alhamdulillah-surely that is logical within relationships.

    How many men are also ungrateful to their wive's? I think more men then we perhaps realise are ungrateful and think they are owed praise from just doing the things that are generally seen as normal.
    My own experience was like that. I always thanked for everything he did for me even when he started falling short in his responsibilities I saw the positives yet on the other hand he didn't think I did anything/or realise how much I did to require the same respect I showed him. Its not until your without something you start to appreciate it.

    So being ungrateful affects both sexes in different ways in my opinion.
    That's my point... To a great degree the men does do a "favour" to the women by taking her and kids on as his responsibility...

    but he shouldnt be making her hear about it...

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    The Best man to ever walk in the Dunya married a widow older than him and was totally monogamous in that relationship.

    She is one of for women of Paradise.

    You make a good point,actions are judge by intentions

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekoor View Post
    That's my point... To a great degree the men does do a "favour" to the women by taking her and kids on as his responsibility...

    but he shouldnt be making her hear about it...
    Yes Alhamdulillah all men who accept responsibilities of another mans children are amazing. Its something that inshaAllah I will have to deal with if I remarry.
    But such a "favour" shouldn't be spoken about or used to control the women. Such a good deed should be done solely for the reward of Allah (SAW) and the wellbeing and happiness of the children and wife. Intention is the biggest factor to consider here.

    Having already been in an abusive marriage it makes me extremely anxious that this might happen again. For example that I will be reminded of how big a charity I am and therefore I should accept anything or less than others would- it makes a person feel worthless to hear a spouse say and think these things. Its why that I am starting to think that perhaps I should not 100% be relying on anyone anymore, because if you put yourself in a vulnerable position-male or female- then you are open to being controlled or abused because of the same vulnerability. Its the sad reality.

    The fast majority of widows and divorcees now are just like me.
    I don't need charity and I can manage alone Alhamdulillah- I just don't want to be alone-the same as everyone else, male/female, single/divorced/widowed.
    (A women can work and take care of herself, just the same as man can take care of himself if needed. There are also many single parents out there whom manage perfectly well alone SubhanAllah). Almost everyone marries mainly for companionship, unless they are blindly matericalistic. At least I think so anyway.

    A good example as already pointed out is Khadjah (RA). She was a women who worked and supported herself on her own means. She turned many wealthy men down for marriage and she was the one asked prophet (PBUH) to marry her as she had love for him. Such a women should be proof that divorced women should not be seen as simply charity but as a women in need of affection and respect the same as a single women. The rights are the same regardless of status. She should not need to show more gratitude then any other wife.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekoor View Post
    That's my point... To a great degree the men does do a "favour" to the women by taking her and kids on as his responsibility...

    but he shouldnt be making her hear about it...
    When he decides to marry her, he should not think of it as "favour" because in truth she is also doing him a "favour" by allowing him to be part of her family. Before marriage he can think whatever he wants & everyone has their reasons. but after marriage it should be gratefulness from both parts. If the intention is still there, sooner or later some day it wil come out. Human are not made to hide things in our heart from those close to us. It will come out, better not to think of it as favour at all

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    For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    I don't think men can help but feel this way. They could have easily chosen a virgin you know. But I agree that he should not try to use it to emotionally blackmail his wife.

    Divorcees and single mothers want to be regarded the same as never married virgins, but the truth is they'll never be seen in the same way. From a biological standpoint the never married women are more desirable to men. Usually when a man marries a divorcee or single mother, it's cause she has some outstanding qualities he couldn't find in never married women.
    Last edited by Stoic Believer; 08-11-17 at 03:58 PM.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    I don't think men can help but feel this way. They could have easily chosen a virgin you know. But I agree that he should not try to use it to emotionally blackmail his wife.

    Divorcees and single mothers want to be regarded the same as never married virgins, but the truth is they'll never be seen in the same way. From a biological standpoint the never married women are more desirable to men.
    Brother i think its not so much being seen as equal but not being seen as charity or using her situation as control that's important-at least in my case. I know how the world works.
    I do understand the desire of a virgin for men from physical side-but then she doesn't stay a virgin forever either- after the first night you no longer have a virginal wife. but yes especially virgin men will want someone of the same generally -that's natural.

    At the same time prophet PBUH is the best example of men and yet he did not marry a virgin (at first and even the majority of his wives were not virgins). If men think less of women on their status then they aren't following Sunnah. Whatever their desires are and even if they do end up marry a virgin. Thinking less is wrong. That is where intention comes in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Um_Saf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    I don't think men can help but feel this way. They could have easily chosen a virgin you know. But I agree that he should not try to use it to emotionally blackmail his wife.

    Divorcees and single mothers want to be regarded the same as never married virgins, but the truth is they'll never be seen in the same way. From a biological standpoint the never married women are more desirable to men.
    Brother i think its not so much being seen as equal but not being seen as charity or using her situation as control that's important-at least in my case. I know how the world works.
    I do understand the desire of a virgin for men from physical side-but then she doesn't stay a virgin forever either- after the first night you no longer have a virginal wife. but yes especially virgin men will want someone of the same generally -that's natural.

    At the same time prophet PBUH is the best example of men and yet he did not marry a virgin (at first and even the majority of his wives were not virgins). If men think less of women on their status then they aren't following Sunnah. Whatever their desires are and even if they do end up marry a virgin. Thinking less is wrong. That is where intention comes in.
    I understand. It's demeaning to be regarded as a charity case, especially when you were doing just fine before marriage.

    Well, then how do you want to be seen? I imagine you just want to be treated like any other woman, virgin or otherwise.

    It doesn't matter that she's only a virgin temporarily after marriage. The appeal of virgins is the lack of being touched by another man previously, and the lack of possible emotional baggage from previous relationships.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Interesting topic. I feel this comes back to really knowing who you are getting involved with and the issue of some women not seeing themselves as more than a charity case. There are decent men out there, who do not become fixated on someone’s past, and they are secure men, or men who are secure with themselves. When a woman is secure with herself as well, she will generally attract similar men. So, decide who you are, what you want in a man, how you want to be treated, and move in that direction.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    I understand. It's demeaning to be regarded as a charity case, especially when you were doing just fine before marriage.

    Well, then how do you want to be seen? I imagine you just want to be treated like any other woman, virgin or otherwise.

    It doesn't matter that she's only a virgin temporarily after marriage. The appeal of virgins is the lack of being touched by another man previously, and the lack of possible emotional baggage from previous relationships.
    How do I want to be seen?
    Simply as a women who is trying to live as a muslimah and raise pious children same as every other person I guess. I can manage alone if needed though.

    For what it is worth -particularly for reverts -the end of one marry sometimes creates a situation where they end up abandoning the deen completely-it is after all easy fall back into haram and possibly zina, when you are lonely and desire a relationship but still many in the muslim ummah see the non-virgin status so negatively or a charity rather than just a women, despite the teaching of islam . Its difficult to know how you are now seen when your situation is not you fault at all SubhanAllah. And its not Easy to remarry as a women (so i am told anyway)

    Alhamdulliah even after i have been though so much I am continuing to increase my imam when fitna still affects me, I am lonely and I do not claim otherwise. On top of that I am isolated and my family have tried to encourage me to "forget" islam and to just date and then I wouldn't be lonely. In the past when i have been very low I have thought if I should reconsider non-muslim men or just give in and conform to my family completely astaghfirullah.

    But then I quickly remind myself that i reverted because i believed Alhamdulillah and I left an abusive marriage full of disagreements on shirk/bidah in the hope my child and myself will become better muslims for it inshaAllah.
    As a mother I have the duty for my child to marry a man who will now become her only male muslim role model inshaAllah . I never wanted to be divorced-who does (or widowed for that matter). i just had no other halal options left.

    At the same time I do not want to repeat my first marriage and accept a situation just because of the loneliness. Polygamy has became something I will consider even more than before InshaAllah. I know my only option is a man whom is divorced/widowed or polygamy.
    Strangely my Ex husband has told me to go find the apparent pious man that i want- though he doesn't think a pious brother will accept me- said if another marriage doesn't work out he will take me back-and hes waiting for that day to say he told me so. Ya Allah! He also said its good that we divorced as one of us would have ended up dead by now as there was no compatibility.

    It doesn't matter that she's only a virgin temporarily after marriage. The appeal of virgins is the lack of being touched by another man previously, and the lack of possible emotional baggage from previous relationships - Ah but then a virgin woman is less likely to accept a polygamy situation for the very same reason. Like I said its natural to want the same as you are.

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    1of the volatile beings myeverything's Avatar
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    I don't think men can help but feel this way. They could have easily chosen a virgin you know. But I agree that he should not try to use it to emotionally blackmail his wife.

    Divorcees and single mothers want to be regarded the same as never married virgins, but the truth is they'll never be seen in the same way. From a biological standpoint the never married women are more desirable to men. Usually when a man marries a divorcee or single mother, it's cause she has some outstanding qualities he couldn't find in never married women.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    I understand. It's demeaning to be regarded as a charity case, especially when you were doing just fine before marriage.

    Well, then how do you want to be seen? I imagine you just want to be treated like any other woman, virgin or otherwise.

    It doesn't matter that she's only a virgin temporarily after marriage. The appeal of virgins is the lack of being touched by another man previously, and the lack of possible emotional baggage from previous relationships.

    Hey!

    no one cares of how certain men feel nor we discussing that here ..such men can just for a virgins. period.

    Please Please Please don't turn this thread into virgin VS divorcee& widows. This is not what this thread about at all. ( i expect someone to do that)

    We trying to be practical and real here and put things into perspective and say things as they are. FOCUS on the core of topic and not the options that he had before marriage or feelings^^
    How merciful Allah on me by giving me respite,and I persist in my sins and Allah shields me

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    This thread aimes at highlighting and correcting the biggest mistakes, mindset, thinking, expectations
    that many married men have in mind when considering marrying a divorcee with kids or widows as second wife.


    If they enter the marriage, thinking these women (divorcee, widows)SHOULD/ WOULD :


    - show more gratitude/ appreciation than any other wife.
    - put up with or overlook his flaws/mistakes/ falling short in his responsibilities ..etc more than other women.
    - demand less at all levels( emotionally, financially, time ...etc) than any other wife.
    - pamper him way more than any other wife.
    - drop some of her rights more than other wife.
    - that he can get away with many things in his married life .. that he can't get away with any other woman.

    Then he should be prepared for potential disappointment. Simply because he make decisions that are less likely to lead healthy/ happy marriage.

    Unless this is some sort of agreement discussed before marriage between them, and things are clear from the get go, that's another story.

    But in general, it's just a marriage like any other and she's a wife like any other wife .. better enter marriage with this mindset, otherwise blame no one but yourself lol if things go south, which more likely to happen.
    Last edited by myeverything; 08-11-17 at 06:18 PM.
    How merciful Allah on me by giving me respite,and I persist in my sins and Allah shields me

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    @Um_Saf

    May Allah make it easy for you and others in a similar situation

    Just remember

    An-Nisa' 4:89

    وَدُّوْا لَوْ تَكْفُرُوْنَ كَمَا كَفَرُوْا فَتَكُوْنُوْنَ سَوَآءً* فَلَا تَتَّخِذُوْا مِنْهُمْ اَوْلِيَآءَ حَتّٰى يُهَاجِرُوْا فِىْ سَبِيْلِ اللّٰهِ*ؕ فَاِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَخُذُوْهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوْهُمْ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوْهُمْ* وَلَا تَتَّخِذُوْا مِنْهُمْ وَلِيًّا وَّلَا نَصِيْرًاۙ

    They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.

    ( the first part of the ayat is important for people in this kind of situation)

    Alot of the time u wont realise but people who are disbelievers will try to take u away from your religion consciously or subconsciously ive seen it first hand
    Dont ever fall in that trap of the shaytaan and the disbelievers
    This is a trial and test from Allah to show how steadfast you are
    We cant expect to earn jannah without going through hardship in this world
    But stay firm and ان شاء الله
    Things will change

    Also just incase you didnt know if a muslim women marries a kaafir man she apostates and becomes a disbeliever until she repents which includes leaving that marriage as the Quran states a women can only marry a muslim man
    Last edited by Abu julaybeeb; 08-11-17 at 06:20 PM.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    @Um_Saf

    Sister you sound like a strong person mashAllah
    May Allah (swt) always keep your iman strong and keep you guided and never let you go astray Ameen.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekoor View Post
    I highlighted the very text and commented about men knowing just this.

    On the flip side... whether the wife is 1st ot 4th... the women must realise the part that the men bring in taking care of her needs and that not everything is owed to her.

    For this reason women have been warned about being ungrateful to husbands

    So in my view one sholdnt be making it seem like a favour and on the other the women must acknowledge that the man bring some form of assistance/relief etc and not be ungrateful...
    You know ..I think the problem here with some men and not women.

    Because the ungrateful woman who not acknowledging that the man bring some form of assistance/relief etc will just be ungrateful, regardless whether being 1st or 4th...

    In other words, women marital status changes nothing in her thinking, nature, character and way of dealing with husband.

    But It's some men who change their thinking, nature, character and their way of dealing with wife, according to the woman marital status. They think that a divorcee/ widow should be more grateful than other wife ..etc ( as I mentioned in my previous post) which is totally wrong and big misconception that many Muslim men unfortunately have in mind when considering marrying with divorcee or widow.
    How merciful Allah on me by giving me respite,and I persist in my sins and Allah shields me

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    Hey!

    no one cares of how certain men feel nor we discussing that here ..such men can just for a virgins. period.

    Please Please Please don't turn this thread into virgin VS divorcee& widows. This is not what this thread about at all. ( i expect someone to do that)

    We trying to be practical and real here and put things into perspective and say things as they are. FOCUS on the core of topic and not the options that he had before marriage or feelings^^
    I have never considered divorcee or widowed any less than a virgin. She was in a Halal relationship. It’s only those who have had extramarital relations that I would consider less than a virgin.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Snippets View Post
    I have never considered divorcee or widowed any less than a virgin. She was in a Halal relationship. It’s only those who have had extramarital relations that I would consider less than a virgin.
    well .. that's good


    but again this topic not about virgins vs divorcee& widows nor about women who had past ...
    How merciful Allah on me by giving me respite,and I persist in my sins and Allah shields me

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Was merely making the point to the brother who was saying virgins are more desirable.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    This thread aimes at highlighting and correcting the biggest mistakes, mindset, thinking, expectations
    that many married men have in mind when considering marrying a divorcee with kids or widows as second wife.


    If they enter the marriage, thinking these women (divorcee, widows)SHOULD/ WOULD :


    - show more gratitude/ appreciation than any other wife.
    - put up with or overlook his flaws/mistakes/ falling short in his responsibilities ..etc more than other women.
    - demand less at all levels( emotionally, financially, time ...etc) than any other wife.
    - pamper him way more than any other wife.
    - drop some of her rights more than other wife.
    - that he can get away with many things in his married life .. that he can't get away with any other woman.

    Then he should be prepared for potential disappointment. Simply because he make decisions that are less likely to lead healthy/ happy marriage.

    Unless this is some sort of agreement discussed before marriage between them, and things are clear from the get go, that's another story.

    But in general, it's just a marriage like any other and she's a wife like any other wife .. better enter marriage with this mindset, otherwise blame no one but yourself lol if things go south, which more likely to happen.
    sorry sister I was simply responding to a question I didn't think it would have turned into such a personal post from me Anyway it may be good for the brothers to get an idea of how a divorcee thinks anyway inshaAllah

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    I just thought It's good to shed light on this issue and that married men who consider it should be educated on this matter.

    I notice that many men marry divorcees with kids or widows; thinking inside they doing charity ( of course they didn't mention it to the women,otherwise they won't accept to marry them)

    They enter this marriage with weird expectations. They expect that these women to accept less at every level and be grateful 24/7 for them marrying her .. which is insane. Then, when they get married they discover that she's just a woman like any other wife, behaving in a normal way ( not seeing herself as a charity case) wants what normal wife usually want .. they shocked and be like " u not being grateful that I married u .. blah blah .."

    and the problems start, because he in the first place didn't inter the marriage with good intention ..

    something makes me wonder if they really want the reward from Allah or from the women themselves?
    or they choose these women, in particular, thinking they can have extra woman for barely nothing .. if she's divorced or widow?

    dunno what exactly in their heads but whatever was it .. they should be clear about it to avoid future disappointment and destruction of others lives .. etc
    +1

    Generally speaking, even if one was to give another actual charity (e.g. give someone money), treating the receiver differently because of that and leveraging it over them is strictly prohibited and condemned by Allah. It ruins your sadaqah and indicates a disease in the heart.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Don't ever be a second wife, I wouldn't advise it to any of my sisters or friends. Why?

    Because times have changed, the men of today unless they're exceptional in their character and have a great personality and are able to be just with two women, can not handle 2 wives. Perhaps back a few decades ago, but not today.


    Even if divorced, I feel its better you go for a divorced man rather than a man seeking a second wife.
    I have a family member who has been looking for marriage for a very long time, almost 2 years now, and undoubtedly the worst potentials have been the ones seeking second wives, most are not serious and they're looking for a second wife for their sexual gratification, not for a real marriage. Avoid. Avoid. Avoid.


    It is a Sunnah, and has many practical uses, however the people of today in my opinion can not handle 2 women, and 2 sets of responsibilities. It is possible but quite rare that you'll find both women happy with the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    I don't think men can help but feel this way. They could have easily chosen a virgin you know. But I agree that he should not try to use it to emotionally blackmail his wife.

    Divorcees and single mothers want to be regarded the same as never married virgins, but the truth is they'll never be seen in the same way. From a biological standpoint the never married women are more desirable to men. Usually when a man marries a divorcee or single mother, it's cause she has some outstanding qualities he couldn't find in never married women.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    I understand. It's demeaning to be regarded as a charity case, especially when you were doing just fine before marriage.

    Well, then how do you want to be seen? I imagine you just want to be treated like any other woman, virgin or otherwise.

    It doesn't matter that she's only a virgin temporarily after marriage. The appeal of virgins is the lack of being touched by another man previously, and the lack of possible emotional baggage from previous relationships.

    Hey!

    no one cares of how certain men feel nor we discussing that here ..such men can just for a virgins. period.

    Please Please Please don't turn this thread into virgin VS divorcee& widows. This is not what this thread about at all. ( i expect someone to do that)

    We trying to be practical and real here and put things into perspective and say things as they are. FOCUS on the core of topic and not the options that he had before marriage or feelings^^
    Not sure what you're on about. This thread is all about how men feel (i.e. that they feel they're doing a charity by marrying these sisters, and that you disagree with these feelings).

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Sister_2009 View Post
    Interesting topic. I feel this comes back to really knowing who you are getting involved with and the issue of some women not seeing themselves as more than a charity case. There are decent men out there, who do not become fixated on someone’s past, and they are secure men, or men who are secure with themselves. When a woman is secure with herself as well, she will generally attract similar men. So, decide who you are, what you want in a man, how you want to be treated, and move in that direction.

    That's true. But usually such men keep this attitude/ mentality hidden, for fearing to scare the woman out, not accepting him ..or for whatever reason. They only show it after marriage.

    Although, sometimes there 're some signs, situations or red flags that can give a woman glimpse of how he views her even before the marriage.. but it's not always the case, mostly they hide it, as i mentioned earlier.



    I think this topic is important. A great number of Muslim men who consider polygamy with ( divorcee / widows) need to be educated about this matter. I haven't seen it discussed here before. Maybe u can write something about it in your blog @Gingerbeardman
    How merciful Allah on me by giving me respite,and I persist in my sins and Allah shields me

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Mintchocchip View Post
    @Um_Saf

    Sister you sound like a strong person mashAllah
    May Allah (swt) always keep your iman strong and keep you guided and never let you go astray Ameen.
    JazakAllah Khairan,
    inshaAllah my imaam will only increase. I do not feel strong at all-in fact I am one of the weakest in reality. For any of my actions Allah will judge me, I simply want my child to have a fair chance in her deen inshaAllah same as any parent would want really.

    But I hope it will be a reminder to brothers that the divorcee isn't in need of charity or sympathy, but rather if anything respect as a sister as she no doubt had no choice but remain strong as you say whatever she has had to face before- potentially at the displeasure of cultural opinion.

    All brothers and sisters just want to be seen on character alone (no want wants to be seen as charity-especially to their spouse ) and women in these situations should not feel we like we should be anymore grateful for a happy marriage than any other brother or sister should inshaAllah

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    That's true. But usually such men keep this attitude/ mentality hidden, for fearing to scare the woman out, not accepting him ..or for whatever reason. They only show it after marriage.

    Although, sometimes there 're some signs, situations or red flags that can give a woman glimpse of how he views her even before the marriage.. but it's not always the case, mostly they hide it, as i mentioned earlier.



    I think this topic is important. A great number of Muslim men who consider polygamy with ( divorcee / widows) need to be educated about this matter. I haven't seen it discussed here before. Maybe u can write something about it in your blog @Gingerbeardman
    Time and patience... this alone will reveal so much about a person, or along the lines of, if you give them enough rope, they will hang themselves (reveal it).

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Snippets View Post
    Was merely making the point to the brother who was saying virgins are more desirable.
    I see

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    Not sure what you're on about. This thread is all about how men feel (i.e. that they feel they're doing a charity by marrying these sisters, and that you disagree with these feelings).
    Not exactly .. reread my posts and others posts...It's more like educational thread.

    I concentrate more on the practical side of the matter(time, way of dealing with wife, financial, responsibilities, tolerance ..etc) and not the feelings or motif behind it ...

    dunno how to explain it lolz

    but maybe the man can think/ feel whatever he wants but he can't act upon these thoughts/ feeling once he get married. In Islam we don't held account of our feelings that we can't control but we held account of our acts. If that makes sense.

    IMO if a man is really feeling this way and just can't help acting upon it, he better avoid marrying with these women and save himself and the woman unnecessary drama.

    Because a woman would never see herself any less no matter how old she is or what her marital status is .. It's all in some men heads.

    So, this thread more about educating them about how women think, the reality of such marriage i.e it's just like any other marriage .. because maybe some men think women think the same about themselves which is wrong, unless the woman has low self- esteem which is different story..



    @SisterTA welcome back dear

    but this thread not about polygamy. we don't wanna go down that road i.e discussion.

    aww happy u back welcome again
    Last edited by myeverything; 08-11-17 at 08:15 PM.
    How merciful Allah on me by giving me respite,and I persist in my sins and Allah shields me

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    i just thought it's good to shed light on this issue and that married men who consider it should be educated on this matter.

    I notice that many men marry divorcees with kids or widows; thinking inside they doing charity ( of course they didn't mention it to the women,otherwise they won't accept to marry them)

    they enter this marriage with weird expectations. They expect that these women to accept less at every level and be grateful 24/7 for them marrying her .. Which is insane. Then, when they get married they discover that she's just a woman like any other wife, behaving in a normal way ( not seeing herself as a charity case) wants what normal wife usually want .. They shocked and be like " u not being grateful that i married u .. Blah blah .."

    and the problems start, because he in the first place didn't inter the marriage with good intention ..

    Something makes me wonder if they really want the reward from allah or from the women themselves?
    Or they choose these women, in particular, thinking they can have extra woman for barely nothing .. If she's divorced or widow?

    Dunno what exactly in their heads but whatever was it .. They should be clear about it to avoid future disappointment and destruction of others lives .. Etc
    flush em out...flush em out

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Apples View Post
    flush em out...flush em out

    lol u mean lead em out .. lead em out of ignorance ... educate them.
    How merciful Allah on me by giving me respite,and I persist in my sins and Allah shields me

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    I just thought It's good to shed light on this issue and that married men who consider it should be educated on this matter.

    I notice that many men marry divorcees with kids or widows; thinking inside they doing charity ( of course they didn't mention it to the women,otherwise they won't accept to marry them)

    They enter this marriage with weird expectations. They expect that these women to accept less at every level and be grateful 24/7 for them marrying her .. which is insane. Then, when they get married they discover that she's just a woman like any other wife, behaving in a normal way ( not seeing herself as a charity case) wants what normal wife usually want .. they shocked and be like " u not being grateful that I married u .. blah blah .."

    and the problems start, because he in the first place didn't inter the marriage with good intention ..

    something makes me wonder if they really want the reward from Allah or from the women themselves?
    or they choose these women, in particular, thinking they can have extra woman for barely nothing .. if she's divorced or widow?

    dunno what exactly in their heads but whatever was it .. they should be clear about it to avoid future disappointment and destruction of others lives .. etc
    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    lol u mean lead em out .. lead em out of ignorance ... educate them.
    YES YES FLUSH THAT poodle poo out of their heads - lovely thread.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    I see



    Not exactly .. reread my posts and others posts...It's more like educational thread.

    I concentrate more on the practical side of the matter(time, way of dealing with wife, financial, responsibilities, tolerance ..etc) and not the feelings or motif behind it ...

    dunno how to explain it lolz

    but maybe the man can think/ feel whatever he wants but he can't act upon these thoughts/ feeling once he get married. In Islam we don't held account of our feelings that we can't control but we held account of our acts. If that makes sense.

    IMO if a man is really feeling this way and just can't help acting upon it, he better avoid marrying with these women and save himself and the woman unnecessary drama.

    Because a woman would never see herself any less no matter how old she is or what her marital status is .. It's all in some men heads.

    So, this thread more about educating them about how women think, the reality of such marriage i.e it's just like any other marriage .. because maybe some men think women think the same about themselves which is wrong, unless the woman has low self- esteem which is different story..



    @SisterTA welcome back dear

    but this thread not about polygamy. we don't wanna go down that road i.e discussion.

    aww happy u back welcome again
    A couple of points here:

    All of the bolded above will be affected by his feelings about a woman and her past and whether he views her as a charity case.

    Majority of men here are either not married or, if married, not looking into polygamy.

    So, while it is an interesting topic of sorts, I don’t feel it’s a discussion that is applicable to this site, nor can we discuss this topic without considering feelings.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Point is a man that doesnt fear Allah and isnt righteous is most likely going to take advantage so dont go with him
    If your going to consider this path only go with someone who has taqwa and that doesnt mean pray 5 times a day and wears a thobe

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    I just thought It's good to shed light on this issue and that married men who consider it should be educated on this matter.

    I notice that many men marry divorcees with kids or widows; thinking inside they doing charity ( of course they didn't mention it to the women,otherwise they won't accept to marry them)

    They enter this marriage with weird expectations. They expect that these women to accept less at every level and be grateful 24/7 for them marrying her .. which is insane. Then, when they get married they discover that she's just a woman like any other wife, behaving in a normal way ( not seeing herself as a charity case) wants what normal wife usually want .. they shocked and be like " u not being grateful that I married u .. blah blah .."

    and the problems start, because he in the first place didn't inter the marriage with good intention ..

    something makes me wonder if they really want the reward from Allah or from the women themselves?
    or they choose these women, in particular, thinking they can have extra woman for barely nothing .. if she's divorced or widow?

    dunno what exactly in their heads but whatever was it .. they should be clear about it to avoid future disappointment and destruction of others lives .. etc
    Marrying second wife is hardly Common, at least in the west.

    I don't know a single Brother who has a second wife.

    I do know some who married Divorcees, (Divorcee Brothers and Sisters) and none of them have any such expectations as above.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    In essence what your saying is that ungrateful and demanding women will never change no matter what...thanks for the heads up
    Spears shall be shaken! Shields shall be splintered! a sword day..a red day..ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride! Ride to ruin, and the world’s ending!

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by myeverything View Post
    I just thought It's good to shed light on this issue and that married men who consider it should be educated on this matter.

    I notice that many men marry divorcees with kids or widows; thinking inside they doing charity ( of course they didn't mention it to the women,otherwise they won't accept to marry them)

    They enter this marriage with weird expectations. They expect that these women to accept less at every level and be grateful 24/7 for them marrying her .. which is insane. Then, when they get married they discover that she's just a woman like any other wife, behaving in a normal way ( not seeing herself as a charity case) wants what normal wife usually want .. they shocked and be like " u not being grateful that I married u .. blah blah .."

    and the problems start, because he in the first place didn't inter the marriage with good intention ..

    something makes me wonder if they really want the reward from Allah or from the women themselves?
    or they choose these women, in particular, thinking they can have extra woman for barely nothing .. if she's divorced or widow?

    dunno what exactly in their heads but whatever was it .. they should be clear about it to avoid future disappointment and destruction of others lives .. etc
    Who says "you not being grateful that I married you?"

    Never even remotely heard this before,

    And can you list exactly what expectations your talking about?

    Pretty sure there is a hadith telling us that we ought to marry Virgin or Divorcees cause they have less demands

    Have asked Sheikh and will post reply inshallah.
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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by SisterTA View Post
    Don't ever be a second wife, I wouldn't advise it to any of my sisters or friends. Why?

    Because times have changed, the men of today unless they're exceptional in their character and have a great personality and are able to be just with two women, can not handle 2 wives. Perhaps back a few decades ago, but not today.


    Even if divorced, I feel its better you go for a divorced man rather than a man seeking a second wife.
    I have a family member who has been looking for marriage for a very long time, almost 2 years now, and undoubtedly the worst potentials have been the ones seeking second wives, most are not serious and they're looking for a second wife for their sexual gratification, not for a real marriage. Avoid. Avoid. Avoid.


    It is a Sunnah, and has many practical uses, however the people of today in my opinion can not handle 2 women, and 2 sets of responsibilities. It is possible but quite rare that you'll find both women happy with the situation.
    Interesting.

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    Re: For married men who consider divorcee or widow as second wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    I don't think men can help but feel this way. They could have easily chosen a virgin you know. But I agree that he should not try to use it to emotionally blackmail his wife.

    Divorcees and single mothers want to be regarded the same as never married virgins, but the truth is they'll never be seen in the same way. From a biological standpoint the never married women are more desirable to men. Usually when a man marries a divorcee or single mother, it's cause she has some outstanding qualities he couldn't find in never married women.
    Why didn't they choose a woman who was never married before then? did someone hold a gun up to their head and force them to accept a divorcee or a widow?
    It's not right to make other people pay for your choices. Such men are obviously not capable of polygamy and should stay out of it for everyone's good.

    Sometimes it helps to think "if I had a daughter and she ended up as somebody's second wife, how would I want him to view her. This is somebody else's daughter, her value isn't less than anybody else's because she has kids or because her first marriage didn't work out or because her previous husband died.
    شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
    فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
    وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
    ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

 

 

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