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  1. #1
    Umm Kulthoom Rumaysah~'s Avatar
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    'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    From an interview with the wife of ibn uthaymeen

    Is there anything that the Shaykh asked you to do that seemed strange and made you feel hesitant?

    Answer: It may be unknown to most that I was illiterate and did not receive any kind of formal education. When I married the Shaykh, I was fully busy in his service and in providing him the correct, comfortable environment to seek knowledge and teach. After we had our children, I was busy with them, and it took all my time to raise them, in addition to the time I used to spend to help and support the Shaykh in seeking knowledge. After the children grew up and my responsibilities began to ease slightly, I was surprised that the Shaykh began to incite me to join the senior school i.e. for the elderly. Although hesitant at first, I decided to join. During this period, he followed my achievements and would not accept any of my sons signing my transcripts of record. He would say,

    “I am the one to sign for all that relates to your academic achievements.”
    This moment of learning is a period that cannot be forgotten by me due to its great, innumerable benefits.

    “Al-Mutamayyizah” Magazine Issue No. 45, Ramadhan, 1427. Confirmed & Presented in English by Dr. Saleh As-Saleh.
    شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
    فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
    وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
    ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

  2. #41
    😈 Al-Wahhābī 😈 Linkdeutscher's Avatar
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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Samsandman View Post
    you want to refute imam bukhari?

    Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 509, p. 477; book 61
    Narrated Zaid-bin-Thabit:
    Abu Bakr As-Siddiq sent for me when the people of Yama-ma had been killed (i.e. a number of the prophets companions who fought against Musailama). (I went to him) and found Umar bin Al-Khattab sitting with him. Abu Bakr then said to me, "Umar has come to me and said: `Casualties were heavy among the Qurra of the Qur'an (ie those who knew the Qur'an by heart) on the day of the battle of Yama-ma, and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the Qurra on other battle fields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost. Therefore I suggest that you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur'an be collected'. I said to Umar, `How can you do something Allah's Apostle did not do?' Umar said, `By Allah, that is a good project'. Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till Allah opened my chest (persuaded me) for it and I began to realise the good idea which Umar had realised.
    Reread what I quoted from your post and compare it to what you blindly copied.
    You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

    You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

  3. #42
    Umm Kulthoom Rumaysah~'s Avatar
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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Sister_2009 View Post
    This is exactly what came to mind. Folks are struggling to think outside of the box and make basic connections.
    lol sis, I'm actually amazed how the whole point of the thread is being missed. A thread that is pro female education somehow turned into accusations that i'm against female education.
    I don't know how else I'm supposed to explain it.
    شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
    فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
    وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
    ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

  4. #43
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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
    lol sis, I'm actually amazed how the whole point of the thread is being missed. A thread that is pro female education somehow turned into accusations that i'm against female education.
    I don't know how else I'm supposed to explain it.
    For real. I find it very strange. This is a relatively recent phenomenon here, where so much is misinterpreted. It makes for a difficult time trying to have a good discussion when majority of the thread is spent explaining very basic concepts. Sigh.

  5. #44

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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    Reread what I quoted from your post and compare it to what you blindly copied.
    I stated facts,you brought an unfounded opinion with no daleel and I countered with daleel from an authentic source.

    I can reread it a hundred times and the results are the same.

  6. #45
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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Assalamu alaykum

    From reading the quote I believe this women is an honourable Muslimaah and an example for all of us. Her husband was a scholar Raheemahullah , and she even refers to him as "the Shaykh" , which signifies how much she must have respected him , and does respect him publicly. She also mentions how she used to serve him and assist him , as any noble Muslim wife would strive to do. She is a muhsinaat. May Allah preserve her , ameen.

    I think it's important not to get caught up with western values. The mere saying of .. "She served her husband .." from a Western standpoint is unacceptable , and clear misogyny. That is not true from an Islamic standpoint. A wife is suppose to serve her husband ( The Ulaama have stated this ). Of course the husband also has certain obligations , and even beyond that , compassion and mercy.

    wa Allahu alam.
    Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 31-10-17 at 10:39 PM.

  7. #46
    On A Hired Plane of Logic LailaTheMuslim's Avatar
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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
    Assalamu alaykum

    From reading the quote I believe this women is an honourable Muslimaah and an example for all of us. Her husband was a scholar Raheemahullah , and she even refers to him as "the Shaykh". She also mentions how she used to serve him and assist him , as any noble Muslim wife would strive to do. She is a muhsinaat. May Allah preserve her , ameen.

    I think it's important not to get caught up with western values. The mere saying of .. "She served her husband .." from a Western standpoint is unacceptable , and clear misogyny. That is not true from an Islamic standpoint. A wife is suppose to serve her husband ( The Ulaama have stated this ). And of course the husband also has certain obligations , and even beyond that , compassion and mercy.

    wa Allahu alam.
    She's required to obey, but that doesn't necessarily mean serving, like house work. Obviously in a relationship you have arrangements for this, but I recall Islamqa concluding that its not an obligation for the wife.

    Which scholar said a wife is supposed to serve her husband with household work akhi?

    Secondly, I had quoted a hadith that encouraged the education of slave girls, honestly if you don't educate your illiterate wife whilst your a renowned teacher/scholar its confusing.
    وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

    And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


    أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

    Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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  8. #47
    Umm Kulthoom Rumaysah~'s Avatar
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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Samsandman View Post
    I stated facts,you brought an unfounded opinion with no daleel and I countered with daleel from an authentic source.

    I can reread it a hundred times and the results are the same.
    He is right. The quran was not compiled as a whole book in the time of the prophet .
    It was compiled in the time of Abu bakr may Allah be pleased with him.

    Literacy was not widespread among the Arabs. Allaah described them in such terms when He said (interpretation of the meaning):
    “He it is Who sent among the unlettered ones a Messenger (Muhammad) from among themselves”

    [al-Jumu’ah 63:2]

    They used to memorize the Qur’aan by heart, and a few of them used to write down some verses or soorahs on animal skins, thin white stones and the like.

    The Qur’aan continued to be preserved in the hearts of the Sahaabah who had memorized it, and on the skins and other materials until the time of the caliph Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq (may Allaah be pleased with him). During the Riddah wars many of the Sahaabah who had memorized the Qur’aan were killed, and Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him) was afraid that the Qur’aan would be lost. So he consulted the senior Sahaabah about compiling the Qur’aan in a single book so that it would remain preserved and would not be lost. He entrusted this mission to the chief of memorizers Zayd ibn Thaabit (may Allaah be pleased with him).
    https://islamqa.info/en/10012
    As I said, not being able to read and write was common amongst them at that time, they relied on memory.
    شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
    فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
    وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
    ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

  9. #48

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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Samsandman View Post
    No, the Quran was written down by sahaba in the lifetime of the Prophet sallahu alayhi wasalam and was written in full in book form as they feared that to many huffaz were being killed in jihad and that it was endanger of being lost.
    It was standardized in the reign of Uthman ra(a sahabi himself) and widely circulated in book form from then on.

    google sana manuscripts,the written Quran has been around almost as long as Islam
    first statement: the Quran was written down in the life time of The Prophet sallahu alayhi wasalam,TRUE and daleel has been brought forward by the sister,thank you
    Notice the AND and not BECAUSE between the first and second statement in the above quote

    second statement: it was written in full book form as they feared it would be lost due to the number many huffaz being killed,TRUE as per hadith brought forward by me

    third statement: it was widely circulated in book form during the reign of khalif Uthman ra,TRUE as per hadith below

    Sahih Bukhari
    Narrated Anas bin Malik:
    Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to `Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to `Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Qur'an) as Jews and the Christians did before." So `Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to `Uthman. `Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, `Abdullah bin AzZubair, Sa`id bin Al-As and `AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. `Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, `Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. `Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt.

    If anything is not clear,let me know but it's asr and I need to go pray now

  10. #49
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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    I am confused by what you are saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    She's required to obey, but that doesn't necessarily mean serving, like house work.
    You are saying she has to obey him , but does not necessarily have to serve him - and your example is housework?

    1) What if he orders her to do the housework?

    2) Regardless of 1) .. https://islamqa.info/en/10680

    Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said:

    "She is obliged to serve her husband according to what is reasonable among people of similar standing. That varies according to circumstances: the way in which a Bedouin woman serves (her husband) will not be like the way of a town-dweller, and the way of a strong woman will not be like the way of a weak woman. (al-Fataawa al-Kubraa, 4/561)"

    The point I was even bringing up in my first post had nothing to do with housework. I was praising her for serving her husband who happens to be a scholar - while considering that within the quote her 'serving' included providing the best environment for 'seeking ilm' , and making it easy on him. By Allah , what is more noble than this?

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    Secondly, I had quoted a hadith that encouraged the education of slave girls, honestly if you don't educate your illiterate wife whilst your a renowned teacher/scholar its confusing.
    I did not read your post ( or the entire thread for that matter ).

    First of all , within the Islaamic paradigm "Education" is not secular education. I am certain that this women not only had knowledge , but could school all of us on many many things. I am sure her Arabic was on point , she could pray ( With correct Fiqh ) , knew much of the Quran ( With Tafseer ) , etc.

    I think you must understand who Ibn al Uthaymeen(rah) is , and beyond that , who the scholars of Islaam are. They dedicate their lives for Islaam - they are not just minor du'at. Their whole lives revolve around Ilm , and the women who marry such people know this! Which is the reason why I praise her , she sacrificed much of 'herself' for a noble cause - which many of us who revere the Shaykh are benefiting from her sacrifice and efforts , even today.

    wa Allahu alam.
    Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 31-10-17 at 11:00 PM.

  11. #50
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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
    She was raising 8 kids, his schedule was full from morning till night, she says he never had any time to rest.
    There simply was no time also she didn't ask to join a school.
    This was a long time ago, I don't know why you guys are so shocked. This is life, there are people who are illiterate for various reasons, being able to read and write is a privilege.
    Scholars are human too, why do we criticise them so much and turn a blind eye to clear oppressors.

    It's only here that people expect the wives (families) of scholars to be some kind of walking miracle, and when we find out she doesn't know much, that she's just an average woman, we think "doesn't her husband teach her anything", then we start criticising him. We hold them up to unrealistic standards and have this weird idea in our heads that the families of scholars are perfect. At the end of the day it's a marriage like any other.

    He had three daughters too, so obviously the problem was more the generation his wife was from and the lack of time.
    Not as long ago as the time of Aisha (ra). She wasn't illiterate.

    Yes she is the wife of a scholar and people will look at what type of woman she is because of that reason. What good is it teaching others when you don't even teach your wife how to read and write. Couldn't he afford someone else (female) to come and teach his wife? I find it hard to believe she did not have even an hour a day to learn to read and write?

    So do they expect woman to blind follow just listen to whatever their husband teaches them?

    I wonder what the REAL reason she remained illiterate for so long.

    I had a feeling the sheikh lovers would get all defensive.

  12. #51
    On A Hired Plane of Logic LailaTheMuslim's Avatar
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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
    I am confused by what you are saying.



    You are saying she has to obey him , but does not necessarily have to serve him - and your example is housework?

    1) What if he orders her to do the housework?

    2) Regardless of 1) .. https://islamqa.info/en/10680

    Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said:

    "She is obliged to serve her husband according to what is reasonable among people of similar standing. That varies according to circumstances: the way in which a Bedouin woman serves (her husband) will not be like the way of a town-dweller, and the way of a strong woman will not be like the way of a weak woman. (al-Fataawa al-Kubraa, 4/561)"

    The point I was even bringing up in my first post had nothing to do with housework. I was praising her for serving her husband who happens to be a scholar - while considering that within the quote her 'serving' included providing the best environment for 'seeking ilm' , and making it easy on him. By Allah , what is more noble than this?



    I did not read your post ( or the entire thread for that matter ).

    First of all , within the Islaamic paradigm "Education" is not secular education. I am certain that this women not only had knowledge , but could school all of us on many many things. I am sure her Arabic was on point , she could pray ( With correct Fiqh ) , knew much of the Quran ( With Tafseer ) , etc.

    I think you must understand who Ibn al Uthaymeen(rah) is , and beyond that , who the scholars of Islaam are. They dedicate their lives for Islaam - they are not just minor du'at. Their whole lives revolve around Ilm , and the women who marry such people know this! Which is the reason why I praise her , she sacrificed much of 'herself' for a noble cause - which many of us who revere the Shaykh are benefiting from her sacrifice and efforts , even today.

    wa Allahu alam.
    I'm talking about literacy as per the thread and not secular education. University didn't exist till the tenth century, but literacy did, and obviously the hadith was not referring to secular university education, so I wasn't either.

    Also, other people have interpreted that she used to serve the Shaykh in household tasks, and she herself said in the interview that she worked to make the home environment comfortable for the Shaykh to teach in,

    So, it makes sense that I understood her role as housework, and not assisting the Shaykh in Islamic studies - if she wasn't taught how to read then how hard would it be for her to learn Islam, given the Shaykh taught in the 20th century where books were the main source of Islamic teaching?

    Lastly, I am in no way trying to undermine this Shaykh's opinions, I follow his opinion frequently and have used his quotes in other topics.
    وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

    And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


    أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

    Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    ..

    Question 29: What did you learn from the Shaykh? Did you learn matters of fataawa (Islamic Verdicts)? Did you ever give fataawa?

    Answer: I learned from the Shaykh everything that relates to the affairs of this life, whether from the social or legal aspects.

    Concerning giving fatawa, I would not even dare to do this. I only used to present the questions I received to him and then relate the answers and fataawaa to those that had asked.
    Last edited by Poster; 31-10-17 at 11:10 PM.

  14. #53
    On A Hired Plane of Logic LailaTheMuslim's Avatar
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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Poster View Post
    ..
    Perhaps she was only able to do this after going to literacy classes. Its very hard to learn Islam without literacy at this time or the 20th century.
    وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

    And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


    أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

    Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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  15. #54
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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Samsandman View Post
    I can't believe you think literacy is privilege. That's an arrogant,jahil mentality.something that I would expect from christians a 1000 yrs ago but not from a muslimah in the 21st century.

    even if she was married young at 14 or 16 thats still more than enough time for someone to teach here to read.
    literacy for men women and all muslims is a basic right not a privilege. The Quran has been in written form since the khaliphate of Uthman ra for a reason. the Ahadeeth have been in written form for the better part of 1200 years for a reason.

    A man that encourages his sons to learn to read but not his daughters IS an oppressor. Educated,literate woman are strong women. women are the primary educators of children so this is a rather
    important subject.
    I know I sound like a male feminist saying all this but these are some pretty basic rights,like food,clean water and shelter. No wonder the women of this ummah feel oppressed.
    And if you feel so strongly about literacy for women being a privilege than maybe you shouldn't be reading this,seems it's a privilege you don't deserve since you take it for granted.
    What i'm saying is as much as we want it to be a basic human right, the reality is different. You're blessed to be able to read and write and have access to education. A lot of people can't even think about school for themselves or their children because of the circumstances they are living in. You don't know what kind of family women like these came from, they may have been struggling just to eat, how are they going to afford sending their daughters to school. But you, with your easy access to education, would rather point fingers at their fathers and husbands who have at least tried their best despite the circumstances.

    The equivalent in the west would be allowing your wife to pursue an islamic/secular degree or a job or an interest (within the boundaries of islam of course), and a lot of men here don't even bother despite everything being at our fingertips. Plenty of women here who can't read or write english, they're husbands aren't signing them up for colleges. There are women only colleges for english and online education. No excuse. Criticise these ones instead. They're right under your nose.

    I'm surprised that it's a sister defending this behaviour.
    you're surprised I'm defending the behaviour of men who sign their wives up for colleges to learn to how to read and write? ok
    شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
    فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
    وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
    ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    I'm talking about literacy as per the thread and not secular education. University didn't exist till the tenth century, but literacy did, and obviously the hadith was not referring to secular university education, so I wasn't either.

    Also, other people have interpreted that she used to serve the Shaykh in household tasks, and she herself said in the interview that she worked to make the home environment comfortable for the Shaykh to teach in,

    So, it makes sense that I understood her role as housework, and not assisting the Shaykh in Islamic studies - if she wasn't taught how to read then how hard would it be for her to learn Islam, given the Shaykh taught in the 20th century where books were the main source of Islamic teaching?

    Lastly, I am in no way trying to undermine this Shaykh's opinions, I follow his opinion frequently and have used his quotes in other topics.
    I don't understand what point you are trying to make , I apologize.

    What are you saying? https://islamqa.info/en/10680

    1) If your husband is a scholar then a noble Muslim wife would assist him in any way she can , in order to make him as sufficient as possible - for the sake of Allah (swt). This includes raising the children , taking care of the home in his absence , freeing him from disturbances , among other things.

    Do you find that problematic ..?

    2) It is not necessary to be able to read or write as a Muslim. The majority of the companions were illiterate , and their knowledge has more depth than any living person today. Though I do know where you are coming from , you are saying that 'since this individual was so educated , could he not spare some time to educate his wife on something which is so basic and fundamental?'

    I strongly believe you are not considering two major points. Firstly that it is not a necessity to learn such a thing , considering that one is dependent mostly on memory in terms of deen. Secondly that he is a high caliber scholar , and is busy 24/7 - as I would assume.

    I have nothing more to say sister unless you are going to make a specific point Jazak Allah Khair.
    Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 31-10-17 at 11:30 PM.

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    On A Hired Plane of Logic LailaTheMuslim's Avatar
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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
    I don't understand what point you are trying to make , I apologize.

    What are you saying? https://islamqa.info/en/10680

    1) If your husband is a scholar then a noble Muslim wife would assist him in any way possible , in order to make him as sufficient as possible - for the sake of Allah (swt). This includes raising the children , taking care of the home in his absence , freeing him from disturbances , among other things.

    Do you find that problematic ..?

    2) It is not necessary to be able to read or write as a Muslim. The majority of the companions were illiterate , and their knowledge has more depth than any living person today. Though I do know where you are coming from , you are saying that 'since this individual was so educated , could he not spare some time to educate his wife on something which is so basic and fundamental?'

    I strongly believe you are not considering two major points. Firstly that it is not a necessity to learn such a thing , considering that one is dependent mostly on memory in terms of deen. Secondly that he is a high caliber scholar , and is busy 24/7 - as I would assume.

    I have nothing more to say sister unless you are going to make a specific point Jazak Allah Khair.
    I was pretty specific with my point about the necessity of literacy, what is it that you don't understand?

    I was making the exact point you pointed out in your post - that the Shaykh, as he was a teacher and very educated should have taught his wife, or gotten help to teach her.

    But I also quoted you in regards to housework and service. Literacy and learning about Islam is way more beneficial for the family than housework in my opinion

    Secondly, Islam may have been taught orally, but thats not easy now, unless you're memorizing Qur'an. Books and writing are the main source of Islamic knowledge now.
    وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

    And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


    أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

    Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Assalamu alaykom

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    I was pretty specific with my point about the necessity of literacy, what is it that you don't understand?
    Can you prove this to me through scholarly sources? I don't want a Hadith , I want quotes from scholars which specifically say that you must teach your wife to read and if you do not then you become sinful.

    Your quoting a hadith to me and applying your fiqh is to be rejected on the basis that he himself is a scholar , and knows that Hadith along with it's applications far better than you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    Literacy and learning about Islam is way more beneficial for the family than housework in my opinion
    That is your opinion , not mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    Secondly, Islam may have been taught orally, but thats not easy now, unless you're memorizing Qur'an. Books and writing are the main source of Islamic knowledge now.
    Her husband was a scholar and was speaking to her directly , and @Poster already posted a quote which signifies that she was aware of his Fiqh - and she was able to relate it to others.

    Why in the world would she need to open books when her husband is the book himself? Please contextualize yourself. Ask yourself why you are even asking these questions? There is a reason why.

    Barak Allah feek
    Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 31-10-17 at 11:54 PM.

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    On A Hired Plane of Logic LailaTheMuslim's Avatar
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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
    Assalamu alaykom



    Can you prove this to me through scholarly sources? I don't want a Hadith , I want quotes from scholars which specifically say that you must teach your wife to read and if you do not then you become sinful.

    Your quoting a hadith to me and applying your fiqh is to be rejected on the basis that he himself is a scholar , and knows that Hadith along with it's applications far better than you do.



    That is your opinion , not mine.



    Her husband was a scholar and was speaking to her directly , and @Poster already posted a quote which signifies that she was aware of his Fiqh - and she was able to relate it to others.

    Why in the world would she need to open books when her husband is the book himself? Please contextualize yourself. Ask yourself why you are even asking these questions? There is a reason why.

    Barak Allah feek
    Calm down.

    Firstly, it wasn't clear from the quote when the sister started learning fiqh - perhaps after she went to elderly school, which makes sense since she was busy serving the household before. So her learning fiqh probably came after she was literate.

    Secondly, please tell me where I said it was sinful for the husband not to teach literacy to his wife.

    I think its very necessary to learn how to write and read in Arabic, especially to learn the deen nowadays. I never said anything about sin. But I said it was encouraged, and secondly, don't lie please when you are arguing, I never made up fatwa and applied fiqh I merely reiterated that it is encouraged to teach a women literacy as it is a rewarded good deed, according to that hadith.

    Not comparing to the Sahaba's times where they memorized from the Prophet and other sahabas.
    وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

    And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


    أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

    Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
    I don't understand what point you are trying to make , I apologize.

    What are you saying? https://islamqa.info/en/10680

    1) If your husband is a scholar then a noble Muslim wife would assist him in any way she can , in order to make him as sufficient as possible - for the sake of Allah (swt). This includes raising the children , taking care of the home in his absence , freeing him from disturbances , among other things.

    Do you find that problematic ..?

    2) It is not necessary to be able to read or write as a Muslim. The majority of the companions were illiterate , and their knowledge has more depth than any living person today. Though I do know where you are coming from , you are saying that 'since this individual was so educated , could he not spare some time to educate his wife on something which is so basic and fundamental?'

    I strongly believe you are not considering two major points. Firstly that it is not a necessity to learn such a thing , considering that one is dependent mostly on memory in terms of deen. Secondly that he is a high caliber scholar , and is busy 24/7 - as I would assume.

    I have nothing more to say sister unless you are going to make a specific point Jazak Allah Khair.
    This statement I take issue with but need to do further research to disprove it. I find it highly doubtful that the Nabi sallahu alayhi wasalam would have encouraged the sahaba to learn to read and they would have ignored this advice. There most likely were many illiterate arabs at the start of Muhammad sallahu alayhi wasalam's prophethood but doubtfully so at the end of it but I as I said I need to do research to prove this point.

    The Nabi sallahu alayhi wasalam was clearly illiterate his entire life and necessarily so as if he learned to read then he was not the promise Prophet and literacy would have invalidated his claim to prophethood.


    it's clear from ahadeeth that a number of notable companions could read or learned to read such as Ali ibn Talib,Abu Bakr,Uthman,Muawiya,Khalid bin Walid,Salman al Farsi,Abdullah ibn Salam and so on,from the fact they wrote treaties,exchanged letters,etc.

    It is really inconceivable that The Prophet sallahu alayh wasalam would encourage the sahaba to learn to read and they would disobey.

    And lets not forget the very first command send down to Muhammad sallahu alayhi wasalam from Allah swt through Jibril as.

    "Iqra!" =Read.

    this really is not light subject for those who take Islam(and not jahil culture) seriously

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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Mintchocchip View Post
    Not as long ago as the time of Aisha (ra). She wasn't illiterate.

    Yes she is the wife of a scholar and people will look at what type of woman she is because of that reason. What good is it teaching others when you don't even teach your wife how to read and write. Couldn't he afford someone else (female) to come and teach his wife? I find it hard to believe she did not have even an hour a day to learn to read and write?

    So do they expect woman to blind follow just listen to whatever their husband teaches them?

    I wonder what the REAL reason she remained illiterate for so long.

    I had a feeling the sheikh lovers would get all defensive.
    It's a marriage, not a student/teacher relationship. There are children and responsibilities that need to be taken care of.
    What world are you people living in lol. why judge their wives, if you wanted to seek knowledge as a sister, you would be doing that before marriage. You wouldn't marry a sheikh or a student expecting him to teach you. As if you're going to suddenly turn into a sponge and soak up all the knowledge that he spent 10+ years acquiring on top of pregnancy and child rearing. No, you'll stay as ignorant as you were before marriage no matter how big of a sheikh your husband is because seeking knowledge past the basics was never your thing to start with.

    He taught her everything she needs to know, she probably had more knowledge about islam than all of us put together.
    Allah says to save yourselves and your families from the fire. (66:6) You think scholars don't understand what that means? Does knowing how to read and write save your family from the fire?
    Some knowledge is obligatory to know and some isn't. Most of us can read and write but probably can't recite the fatihah and the last few surahs properly and our salah is full of mistakes from top to bottom. Which one is Allah going to ask you about?
    Really, examine yourself and your priorities before criticising.

    Judging the wives of scholars is just another form of the celebrity gossip culture that we've picked up from non muslims. It's pathetic and the lowest place a human can go.
    I would appreciate it if this thread was not turned into a flesh eating contest. Keep it general, keep the sheikhs name out of it and stick to the main topic.
    Last edited by Rumaysah~; 01-11-17 at 12:04 AM.
    شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
    فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
    وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
    ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    I am calm - I am the one defending , not accusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post

    Firstly, it wasn't clear from the quote when the sister started learning fiqh - perhaps after she went to elderly school, which makes sense since she was busy serving the household before. So her learning fiqh probably came after she was literate.
    Right ..

    Salamu alaykum
    Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 01-11-17 at 12:04 AM.

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    On A Hired Plane of Logic LailaTheMuslim's Avatar
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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
    It's a marriage, not a student/teacher relationship. There are children and responsibilities that need to be taken care of.
    What world are you people living in lol. why judge their wives, if you wanted to seek knowledge as a sister, you would be doing that before marriage. You wouldn't marry a sheikh or a student expecting him to teach you. As if you're going to suddenly turn into a sponge and soak up all the knowledge that he spent 10+ years acquiring on top of pregnancy and child rearing. No, you'll stay as ignorant as you were before marriage no matter how big of a sheikh your husband is because seeking knowledge past the basics was never your thing to start with.

    He taught her everything she needs to know, she probably had more knowledge about islam than all of us put together.
    Allah says to save yourselves and your families from the fire. (66:6) You think scholars don't understand what that means? Does knowing how to read and write save your family from the fire?
    Some knowledge is obligatory to know and some isn't. Most of us can read and write but probably can't recite the fatihah and the last few surahs properly and our salah is full of mistakes from top to bottom. Which one is Allah going to ask you about?
    Really, examine yourself and your priorities before criticising.

    Judging the wives of scholars is just another form of the celebrity gossip culture that we've picked up from non muslims. It's a pathetic and the lowest place a human can go.
    I would appreciate it if this thread was not turned into a flesh eating contest. Keep it general, keep the sheikhs name out of it and stick to the main topic.
    No-one is really judging the sister, that would be slander because its not her fault she wasn't educated. Seriously, wives are the responsibility of their husbands, the husbands are supposed to preach and teach to their family. As you said, the Qur'an says save your families from the hell-fire. Wives are a part of the family so if they are struggling and the husband knows a lot about the deen, of course he should try to guide her and teach her.

    Literacy makes you at least approach understanding the deen - how much of our knowledge is based in writing - books and online sources for example. Retaining knowledge is incredibly hard without writing it down.
    وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

    And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


    أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

    Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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    On A Hired Plane of Logic LailaTheMuslim's Avatar
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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
    I am calm - I am the one defending , not accusing.



    Right ..

    Salamu alaykum
    Yes, right you can argue without false accusation and trying to denigrate other's arguments with these accusations. Like claiming that I tried to pass fiqh and that I said that not teaching your wife is sinful.

    Unfair.
    وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

    And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


    أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

    Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Guys...I just got off the phone with her and guess what?..she could read after all..it was just a mistake in the translation of the interview..we had a good chuckle over the furore it had caused on UF.
    Spears shall be shaken! Shields shall be splintered! a sword day..a red day..ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride! Ride to ruin, and the world’s ending!

    None of you truly believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.”

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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    She's required to obey, but that doesn't necessarily mean serving, like house work. Obviously in a relationship you have arrangements for this, but I recall Islamqa concluding that its not an obligation for the wife.

    Which scholar said a wife is supposed to serve her husband with household work akhi?

    Secondly, I had quoted a hadith that encouraged the education of slave girls, honestly if you don't educate your illiterate wife whilst your a renowned teacher/scholar its confusing.
    Except from hanbali madhab the other 3 schools say she has to serve here husband

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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
    what do you mean?
    I was trying to say uthaymeen would be occupied alot as hes dealing with the affairs of the tawagheet kufr government and monarchy of saudi arabia he helped them in their affairs and helped them in their fake Islam

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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
    Assalamu alaykom



    Can you prove this to me through scholarly sources? I don't want a Hadith , I want quotes from scholars which specifically say that you must teach your wife to read and if you do not then you become sinful.

    Your quoting a hadith to me and applying your fiqh is to be rejected on the basis that he himself is a scholar , and knows that Hadith along with it's applications far better than you do.



    That is your opinion , not mine.



    Her husband was a scholar and was speaking to her directly , and @Poster already posted a quote which signifies that she was aware of his Fiqh - and she was able to relate it to others.

    Why in the world would she need to open books when her husband is the book himself? Please contextualize yourself. Ask yourself why you are even asking these questions? There is a reason why.

    Barak Allah feek
    It;' clear that you are trying to argue this matter from a cultural viewpoint and not an Islamic one. That cultural viewpoint both is misogynistic and oppressive.

    Your asking the sister to bring a quote from a scholar rather than hadith,a scholar who almost certainly a male from a misogynistic culture.
    that is an entirely dishonest request.

    here is a quote from one of the greatest scholars in Islam to refresh your memory about a post I made above,in case you forgot already.


    Narrated `Aisha:
    The commencement of (the Divine Inspirations to) Allah's Messenger (sallahu alayhi waslam) was in the form of true dreams. The Angel came to him and said, "Read! In the Name of your Lord Who has created all exists), has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is Most Generous, Who has taught (the writing) by the pen.

    think about,ponder on and reflect what this hadith means.

    there's a reason that after Bagdhad was sacked by the mongols the river ran black for days,it was from all the BOOKS that they threw in river.

    Literacy,books and Islam have a long association for a reason. Think about that reason,ponder on that reason and do some reflection on the reason.

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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post
    Except from hanbali madhab the other 3 schools say she has to serve here husband
    This fatwa https://islamqa.info/en/1704 says that its a matter of difference on the obligations of housework. In the end of the fatwa the sheikh from Islamqa says that the fact that its subject to difference indicates that household duties are voluntary.
    وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

    And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


    أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

    Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Eorlingas View Post
    Guys...I just got off the phone with her and guess what?..she could read after all..it was just a mistake in the translation of the interview..we had a good chuckle over the furore it had caused on UF.
    Really?

    Lying is a major sin remember

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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Eorlingas View Post
    Guys...I just got off the phone with her and guess what?..she could read after all..it was just a mistake in the translation of the interview..we had a good chuckle over the furore it had caused on UF.
    I don't mean to be harsh brother, but its not good to joke about woman in this manner, especially to Shaykh Uthaymeen's respected wife.

    I dunno perhaps I'm going overboard sorry
    وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

    And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


    أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

    Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    This fatwa https://islamqa.info/en/1704 says that its a matter of difference on the obligations of housework. In the end of the fatwa the sheikh from Islamqa says that the fact that its subject to difference indicates that household duties are voluntary.
    That is from the ijtihaad of that sheik
    Others cans differ
    Plus 3 out of 4 madhubs saying something makes sense
    Plus fatima ra use to do the housework and make the dough for her Ali and her family to eat till her hands were messed up Ali ra said get a slave the prophet said u dont need a slave its better not to
    That says enough

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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post
    That is from the ijtihaad of that sheik
    Others cans differ
    Plus 3 out of 4 madhubs saying something makes sense
    Plus fatima ra use to do the housework and make the dough for her Ali and her family to eat till her hands were messed up Ali ra said get a slave the prophet said u dont need a slave its better not to
    That says enough
    He also says at the end that the majority of scholars don't agree that household duties are obligatory - If I'm right. I don't know but he probably knows more about what other scholars say than both of us.
    وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

    And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


    أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

    Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    He also says at the end that the majority of scholars don't agree that household duties are obligatory - If I'm right. I don't know but he probably knows more about what other scholars say than both of us.
    True he knows more
    But still why do the other 3 madhubs says it is obligatory
    I would ask more than one sheik instead of jusy istening to islamicqa when it comes to situations like this

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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Samsandman View Post
    Really?

    Lying is a major sin remember
    Lol OK u got me! Have to get up pretty early in the morning to pull the wool over ol' Samsandman's eyes..but it might be worth checking the original interview in Arabic.
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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    This talks about a good man and a good woman

    A woman who loved to obey her husband ,do everything to him ( obviously you cant say about the sisters nowadays,well not majority majority anyway)...more rebellious now.

    A man who appreciated that support ,looked after her and eventually surprised her with education with his love.
    ( which you cant say about lot of the men nowadays)

    They knew their roles in marriage well and alhamdulillah it worked for them due to inshaallah their piety.
    Last edited by muzzybee; 01-11-17 at 12:54 AM. Reason: Spelling

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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    Yes, right you can argue without false accusation and trying to denigrate other's arguments with these accusations. Like claiming that I tried to pass fiqh and that I said that not teaching your wife is sinful.

    Unfair.

    It is very annoying to speak with people who can not present consistency in their positions - especially when they fail to recognize that themselves - the conversation feels like speaking to brick wall.

    First you said.

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    I was pretty specific with my point about the necessity of literacy, what is it that you don't understand?
    Then you said ..


    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    Secondly, please tell me where I said it was sinful for the husband not to teach literacy to his wife.

    I think its very necessary to learn how to write and read in Arabic, especially to learn the deen nowadays. I never said anything about sin. But I said it was encouraged, and secondly, don't lie please when you are arguing, I never made up fatwa and applied fiqh I merely reiterated that it is encouraged to teach a women literacy as it is a rewarded good deed, according to that hadith.
    When 'arguing' with another person the term "Necessary" , literally means that it is obligatory. You contradicted yourself with it's usage , so do not blame me for not understanding you , when you have clearly used language incorrectly.

    The point I have made and I uphold is that when your husband is a scholar he is obviously teaching you and correcting you as you spend time together. People who are illiterate tend to have great memories , and she must have learned much just from being in his presence. As for it being it recommended for her to learn how to read, then I would not necessarily disagree with that. But nevertheless I believe the Ummah has benefited greatly from her efforts , in assisting her husband who has served our community which an immense amount of ilm.

    -------

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    Which scholar said a wife is supposed to serve her husband with household work akhi?
    1) I quoted Ibn Taymiyyah , you did not respond to me with regards to his quote.
    2) I asked "What if he orders her to?" , you did not respond.

    3) A women who marries a scholar knows what she is committing to , and a women with a sound fitrah and imaan - who looks towards the akhirah and not just wordly life - knows that part of assisting your husbands noble occupation is to serve him and not disturb him ( Even more so , then if he was a mechanic or a lawyer ). This is not even up for debate , if you don't acknowledge this then we are on two different planets.

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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Necessary does not mean obligatory
    If your talking in regards to islam u should wait for the wor fardh or obligatory to be said

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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
    It is very annoying to speak with people who can not present consistency in their positions - especially when they fail to recognize that themselves - the conversation feels like speaking to brick wall.

    First you said.



    Then you said ..




    When 'arguing' with another person the term "Necessary" , literally means that it is obligatory. You contradicted yourself with it's usage , so do not blame me for not understanding you , when you have clearly used language incorrectly.

    The point I have made and I uphold is that when your husband is a scholar he is obviously teaching you and correcting you as you spend time together. People who are illiterate tend to have great memories , and she must have learned much just from being in his presence. As for it being it recommended for her to learn how to read, then I would not necessarily disagree with that. But nevertheless I believe the Ummah has benefited greatly from her efforts , in assisting her husband who has served our community which an immense amount of ilm.

    -------



    1) I quoted Ibn Taymiyyah , you did not respond to me with regards to his quote.
    2) I asked "What if he orders her to?" , you did not respond.

    3) A women who marries a scholar knows what she is committing to , and a women with a sound fitrah and imaan - who looks towards the akhirah and not just wordly life - knows that part of assisting your husbands noble occupation is to serve him and not disturb him ( Even more so , then if he was a mechanic or a lawyer ). This is not even up for debate , if you don't acknowledge this then we are on two different planets.
    Did I say necessity meant obligation, in fact the rest of my comments did not allude to anything about sin and obligations.

    Necessity clearly meant the fact that its hard to learn about the progress in education (deen or secular) without literacy. How anyone can argue against the necessity of literacy is really odd, especially coming from a perspective of learning about Islam.

    My argument is consistent, yours frequently lingers in assumptions and grey areas. According to the Islamqa fatwa I linked above, the majority of scholars do not see household duties as an obligation.

    I am sure you quoted Islamqa for the Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) quote.

    Yet if you wanted to be fair, you should have been honest that the majority of scholars don't see homemaking as obligatory - according to Islamqa.
    وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

    And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


    أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

    Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post
    Necessary does not mean obligatory
    If your talking in regards to islam u should wait for the wor fardh or obligatory to be said
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Necessary

    nec·es·sar·y (nĕs′ĭ-sĕr′ē)
    adj.
    1. Needed or required: a contract complete with the necessary signatures; conditions necessary to life. See Synonyms at indispensable.
    2.
    a. Unavoidably determined by prior conditions or circumstances; inevitable: the necessary results of overindulgence.
    b. Logically inevitable: a necessary conclusion.
    3. Required by obligation, compulsion, or convention: made the necessary apologies.
    n. pl. nec·es·sar·ies
    Something indispensable.

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    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    Did I say necessity meant obligation, in fact the rest of my comments did not allude to anything about sin and obligations.

    Necessity clearly meant the fact that its hard to learn about the progress in education (deen or secular) without literacy. How anyone can argue against the necessity of literacy is really odd, especially coming from a perspective of learning about Islam.

    My argument is consistent, yours frequently lingers in assumptions and grey areas. According to the Islamqa fatwa I linked above, the majority of scholars do not see household duties as an obligation.

    I am sure you quoted Islamqa for the Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) quote.

    Yet if you wanted to be fair, you should have been honest that the majority of scholars don't see homemaking as obligatory - according to Islamqa.
    Ok , so allow us to entertain what your views entail.

    The great Shaykh oppressed his wife by making her serve him when that is not obligatory for her , and he prevented her from Islamic knowledge based on her illiteracy. How could an educated scholar ever do such a thing? Did he not know that the only way she could access a sufficient amount of beneficial knowledge in this day and age is through the reading of books? Alhamdulillah that he did eventually recommend her learning how to read - and it is only during this stage where she actually comprehended his Fiqh positions - because she obviously needed to read about his positions , in order to know what his positions actually were. Too bad that she is too old , and the Ilm she taught her children as they were growing up must have been falsehood , because she didn't know how to read , and therefore was ignorant of her husbands scholarly positions.

    Na'am.
    Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 01-11-17 at 01:48 AM.

 

 

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