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    An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

    Hi

    I was listening to some atheistic arguments against religion. I heard this one, about Millions of babies dying each year. I know this comes under the "Problem of Evil" and I have heard some refutations for the problem of evil. but, I have a different take on this particular argument.

    Millions of babies, under the age of 7 dying each year due to natural causes, they get a free pass into heaven, without ever facing the hardships of life.

    I wish I would have died before the age of 7, without having to endure any of this worldly life.

    How do you address this issue?

  2. #41
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    Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

    Quote Originally Posted by Sceptic View Post
    You didn't answer my question: So, it's OK for god to test us by torturing other people? God tests our belief that he is good by torturing other people - is that evidence he is good.
    I cited babies because most people - you're an exception, it seems - regard it as absolutely bad to torture babies, whereas they can often make exceptions with adults. Since you ask, I think that the muslim and Christian belief that most humans are going to be horribly tortured for ever is also bad. Even as punishment, the worst person that ever lived - the worst person that could ever live - would be unjustly treated if they treated like that.
    i actually did answer it , read the second paragraph again.




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    Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

    Quote Originally Posted by noobz View Post
    i actually did answer it , read the second paragraph again.
    I asked: "So, it's OK for god to test us by torturing other people?"
    You replied: "its totally fine to torture us here to see if we're upto the challenge and if we really do believe "

    Do you really not distinguish between tests directly imposed on you and tests imposed on you by torturing other people?

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    Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

    Quote Originally Posted by Sceptic View Post
    I asked: "So, it's OK for god to test us by torturing other people?"
    You replied: "its totally fine to torture us here to see if we're upto the challenge and if we really do believe "

    Do you really not distinguish between tests directly imposed on you and tests imposed on you by torturing other people?
    nope , why do you believe that the standard should change from person to person?




  5. #44
    New Member Uzee's Avatar
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    Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

    @panther123 , @noobz , @saif-Uddin , @JerryMyers

    It makes sense that the parents of babies are tested by making their babies suffer and then taking them from them.

    But are the non believers tested too? For all the horrible congenital and genetic diseases, heart defects and cancers don't seem to target only the people of the faith and their babies.

  6. #45
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    Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

    Quote Originally Posted by Uzee View Post
    @panther123 , @noobz , @saif-Uddin , @JerryMyers

    It makes sense that the parents of babies are tested by making their babies suffer and then taking them from them.

    But are the non believers tested too? For all the horrible congenital and genetic diseases, heart defects and cancers don't seem to target only the people of the faith and their babies.
    Well, God is for all mankind, so, it means ALL mankind are tested in this lifetime on earth, thus, hardships, miseries, loss, etc can befall on anyone... whether you are a believer or a non-believer.

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    Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

    Again, asking why Allah did such and such is invalid, because whatever Allah does is Just and valid since He owns everything. Your questions and opinions are invalid because you don’t own anything.
    “Have you seen he who has taken as his god his [own] desire, and Allah has sent him astray due to knowledge and has set a seal upon his hearing and his heart and put over his vision a veil? So who will guide him after Allah ? Then will you not be reminded? And they say, “There is not but our worldly life; we die and live, and nothing destroys us except time.” And they have of that no knowledge; they are only assuming.” Quran 45:23-24

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    Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

    Here is what’s funny, atheists and liberals have a problem with God killing what He have created but they justified women to kill their babes in their womb???????
    “Have you seen he who has taken as his god his [own] desire, and Allah has sent him astray due to knowledge and has set a seal upon his hearing and his heart and put over his vision a veil? So who will guide him after Allah ? Then will you not be reminded? And they say, “There is not but our worldly life; we die and live, and nothing destroys us except time.” And they have of that no knowledge; they are only assuming.” Quran 45:23-24

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    Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

    Quote Originally Posted by JerryMyers View Post
    Well, God is for all mankind, so, it means ALL mankind are tested in this lifetime on earth, thus, hardships, miseries, loss, etc can befall on anyone... whether you are a believer or a non-believer.
    Jazak Allah for the reply.

    I know Muslims are tested for their faith and patience as in the quran 2:155 but what are the faith-less tested for? Where can I read more about that (that Allah tests non-Muslims too and for what exactly)?

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    Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

    Quote Originally Posted by Uzee View Post
    Jazak Allah for the reply.

    I know Muslims are tested for their faith and patience as in the quran 2:155 but what are the faith-less tested for? Where can I read more about that (that Allah tests non-Muslims too and for what exactly)?
    To God all man are equal, it's AFTER you are tested (which could be till you die), then, you are said to be 'of faith' or 'faith-less', In other words, Allah tests all mankind for their faith in Him.

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    Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

    Quote Originally Posted by Sceptic View Post
    What about non-religious books? How do we tell the koran has qualities - religious or or other - that other books do not? The claim that god is good, presupposes that god has qualities that we humans perceive as good. It's possible to argue that "good", by god's definition is different, but in that case, the people who put it forward must explain why human definitions of "good" differ from god's. ...but is the test just? After all, god knows - and creates - the results before we take it.
    "Allah is the Most Merciful because He said so. " raises some very interesting questions: after all Allah may be the Most Merciful in that he isn't quite as unmerciful as the alternative candidates, not because he is merciful at all. ...and what happens is entirely pre-planned by god. As well as the good things, god created all of the bad things that happen, and he knew they were going to happen. It's not my fault. God made me like that.
    Using the abilities god granted me, I don't see any reason to believe there is a god, certainly not a god that is interested in human beings.
    1) I believe the Quran and the Prophet(saws) have qualities which are compelling , and they are direct signs that Islam is a divine religion.

    I also did not find any opposing religious text except that it's foundations were corrupted - and it's claims were evidently self-contradictory.

    The Quran claims to be Gods first person Speech , in it's entirety. It is preserved through both memorization and manuscript. It is a linguistic miracle, has direct prophecies, free from true contradictions, numerical patterns which are beyond chance or fluke , historical and scientific knowledge as well - unknown and not established during that period.

    These are Allah signs , among others -which grant us assurance for the validity of the faith.


    2) God defines what is "good" and "evil". God is an objective moral anchor.

    Obviously if you don't believe in my God , then our standards will differ. The absence of God only puts forward subjective positions which stem off current social norms , etc. God transcends currents trends by being an infallible , All-Knowing entity. God created us with desires and temptations. Our subjective perspectives are generally influenced by these desires , in one way or another. Submitting to God and His morality is how we escape the shackles of our limitations.

    3) I theologically believe that Allah is Just. He will judge with Justice on the day of resurrection. No one will be treated unfairly. I believe in Islam , therefore I believe in unseen theology and morality. Attempting to debate those points are fruitless. I mean I could have a back and forth but it is truly unnecessary. Your absence of an objective criterion makes your position nothing more than a suggestion.

    4) Knowing what happens in the future is separate from injustice. That is just a Perfection of His knowledge. You are not forced to adopt a skeptic position. Neither is anyone forcing me to be a Muslim. We will be judged based our beliefs and deeds.

    5) True , God has granted you the choice to disbelieve and has also provided a route , by which you can satisfy your intellect in choosing that path. Why believe in what you can not see? Though this is reasoning , it is not sound reasoning.

    I believe God makes sense of reality , can be argued affirmatively with the use of logic , and has assured us through Prophetic revelation / Miracles.

    __________________

    Why does anything exist ? Why isn't there just utter nothingness and void ? Had nothingness been our reality, I would agree , "I" would have no reason to believe God exists. Something does exist , therefore , even without the use of rationalism - common sense dictates that belief in God is more sensible.
    Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 09-11-17 at 02:35 PM.

  12. #51
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    Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

    Quote Originally Posted by panther123 View Post
    Hi

    I was listening to some atheistic arguments against religion. I heard this one, about Millions of babies dying each year. I know this comes under the "Problem of Evil" and I have heard some refutations for the problem of evil. but, I have a different take on this particular argument.

    Millions of babies, under the age of 7 dying each year due to natural causes, they get a free pass into heaven, without ever facing the hardships of life.

    I wish I would have died before the age of 7, without having to endure any of this worldly life.

    How do you address this issue?
    In Islam they all become the resident of heaven wether their parents Muslims or not. So I am fine with it.
    Rosullullah said the best human is a man who has a long life and his life filled with good deeds (both to allah and to other people).
    May Allah grants all of us a long life and it's filled with good deeds. Amin YRA

    AllahuAlam

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    Re: An Atheistic Argument - Millions of babies dying each year

    Quote Originally Posted by Sceptic View Post
    And if these fortunate children are going to have an eternally happy afterlife as compensation anyway, why give them a miserable fore-life? And why not arrange it so that everyone dies young enough to go directly to heaven?
    Bismillah,

    I'll answer your question so please answer my question
    If all people died when they are young then "YOU ARE NOT EVEN EXIST!" You got it? lol
    If you believe that god doesn't exist do you think the Billion of humanity who believe in god are stupid?

    AllahuAlam

 

 

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