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    Was Jesus's body put on the cross?

    In the Quran it says that they did not Kill or Crufify him, but Allah made it appear to them. I know some muslims who have the belief that Jesus went on the cross, but Allah took his soul and gave it back to him after the crucifixion was done. That's how they interpret those verses. They explain this interpretation by saying that Allah would never put an innocent man on the cross in place of Jesus. Is it possible that this is what happened?

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    Re: Was Jesus's body put on the cross?

    Quote Originally Posted by hassan246 View Post
    In the Quran it says that they did not Kill or Crufify him, but Allah made it appear to them. I know some muslims who have the belief that Jesus went on the cross, but Allah took his soul and gave it back to him after the crucifixion was done. That's how they interpret those verses. They explain this interpretation by saying that Allah would never put an innocent man on the cross in place of Jesus. Is it possible that this is what happened?
    Who are these Muslims and from where do they derive their interpretations of the Quraan from?

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    Re: Was Jesus's body put on the cross?

    They are actually Tablighis, I see them often in my local mosque. I don't know where they got this interpretation from but they claim the Qur'an doesn't deny that Jesus was on the cross.

    They use this verse from surah Zumar to prove this belief:

    (39:42): ''Allah takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that do not die [He takes] during their sleep. Then He keeps those for which He has decreed death and releases the others for a specified term. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.''
    Last edited by hassan246; 11-10-17 at 09:25 PM.

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    Re: Was Jesus's body put on the cross?

    Do you have some proper evidence to present? This is quite a serious accusation you are making (misinterpretation of the Quraan).

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    Re: Was Jesus's body put on the cross?

    Quote Originally Posted by horizon View Post
    Do you have some proper evidence to present? This is quite a serious accusation you are making (misinterpretation of the Quraan).
    You want me to pull out a phone and start recording them saying that? I don't understand what you're looking for.

    My question is simple, Is this theory possible as there are many interpretation of what ''it was made to appear that they cucified Jesus'' means.

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    Senior Member Juwairiyyah's Avatar
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    Re: Was Jesus's body put on the cross?

    Quote Originally Posted by hassan246 View Post
    In the Quran it says that they did not Kill or Crufify him, but Allah made it appear to them. I know some muslims who have the belief that Jesus went on the cross, but Allah took his soul and gave it back to him after the crucifixion was done. That's how they interpret those verses. They explain this interpretation by saying that Allah would never put an innocent man on the cross in place of Jesus. Is it possible that this is what happened?
    I don't know why some Muslims would believe that when it's crystal clear in the Qur'an that he was neither killed nor crucified.

    "And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain." (4:157)

    The man who was made to resemble him was not an innocent man but Judas the traitor who betrayed him.

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    Re: Was Jesus's body put on the cross?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juwairiyyah View Post
    The man who was made to resemble him was not an innocent man but Judas the traitor who betrayed him.
    How do you know for sure?

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    Re: Was Jesus's body put on the cross?

    Quote Originally Posted by hassan246 View Post
    How do you know for sure?
    I learned it from this lecture : https://youtu.be/j_6rWLc6bDw?t=942

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    Re: Was Jesus's body put on the cross?

    Quote Originally Posted by hassan246 View Post
    In the Quran it says that they did not Kill or Crufify him, but Allah made it appear to them. I know some muslims who have the belief that Jesus went on the cross, but Allah took his soul and gave it back to him after the crucifixion was done. That's how they interpret those verses. They explain this interpretation by saying that Allah would never put an innocent man on the cross in place of Jesus. Is it possible that this is what happened?
    Yes, there are Muslims who believe Jesus was put on the cross BUT he survived the crucifixion. This belief, of course, would be wrong, as the Quran clearly states ‘…nor was he crucified’ which would mean Jesus was NEVER on the cross. To crucify a man to the cross, they would have to place him on the cross first. Since the Quran said Jesus was not crucified, then, the man they put on the cross was simply NOT him.

    To say Allah would never do this or that would be wrong as only Allah knows what His intentions are, and we, as Muslims, submit to His Will NOT to our own will. There are prophets and righteous people killed for just bringing the Message of Allah to their respective people and it would be wrong to think that God is cruel for getting these prophets and righteous people killed as these prophets and righteous people also submitted to the Will of God and NOT of their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by hassan246 View Post
    They are actually Tablighis, I see them often in my local mosque. I don't know where they got this interpretation from but they claim the Qur'an doesn't deny that Jesus was on the cross.

    They use this verse from surah Zumar to prove this belief:

    (39:42): ''Allah takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that do not die [He takes] during their sleep. Then He keeps those for which He has decreed death and releases the others for a specified term. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.''
    Then their interpretation of Quran Surah Zumar 39:42 is wrong.

    Taking the souls during sleep imply the suspension of consciousness, NOT the actual death (as 'those that do not die'). In other words, when we sleep, we lose the power of senses, understanding and awareness. Some scholars even describe sleep as a ‘mini death’ when the soul temporary leave the body.

    Quran Surah Zumar Chapter 39 Verse 42 simply means Allah wants everyone to realize how life and death are entirely up to His Will. No one can be certain that every time he/she goes to sleep at night, he/she will wake up alive the next morning. No one knows what disaster could befall him within a moment, and whether the next moment would be a moment of life or death for him/her. At any time, while asleep or wide awake, at any place, some unforeseen calamity, from inside his/her body or from outside can suddenly cause his/her death. Thus, man who is so helpless in the presence of God, would be foolish to think that they knew what God can or cannot do or what God should do or should not do. In other words, it would be foolish for man to turn away from Him and ignore His Signs and Message which was conveyed through His chosen prophets.
    Last edited by JerryMyers; 12-10-17 at 05:11 AM.

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    Re: Was Jesus's body put on the cross?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juwairiyyah View Post

    The man who was made to resemble him was not an innocent man but Judas the traitor who betrayed him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Juwairiyyah View Post
    I learned it from this lecture : https://youtu.be/j_6rWLc6bDw?t=942
    Well, I will be careful before making such a statement as the Quran itself never identify who was crucified in Jesus’ place. Shaykh Dr Yasir Qadhi (in the video) himself never say the man put on the cross was Judas but it was the opinion of scholars, not his own. Whether he agreed with the opinion of the scholars or not does not add or remove the fact that Jesus was not killed nor was he crucified.

    Its not of any importance to know who was crucified in Jesus’ place just as it was of no importance to know who hammered the nails into the hands and feet of the man being crucified to the cross.

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    Senior Member Juwairiyyah's Avatar
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    Re: Was Jesus's body put on the cross?

    Quote Originally Posted by JerryMyers View Post
    Well, I will be careful before making such a statement as the Quran itself never identify who was crucified in Jesus’ place. Shaykh Dr Yasir Qadhi (in the video) himself never say the man put on the cross was Judas but it was the opinion of scholars, not his own. Whether he agreed with the opinion of the scholars or not does not add or remove the fact that Jesus was not killed nor was he crucified.

    Its not of any importance to know who was crucified in Jesus’ place just as it was of no importance to know who hammered the nails into the hands and feet of the man being crucified to the cross.
    That's true. I should've added that it was the opinion of scholars to my comment earlier.

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    Re: Was Jesus's body put on the cross?

    Quote Originally Posted by hassan246 View Post
    You want me to pull out a phone and start recording them saying that? I don't understand what you're looking for.

    My question is simple, Is this theory possible as there are many interpretation of what ''it was made to appear that they cucified Jesus'' means.
    What he is saying is you made a serious claim that that group says that.
    And he is asking for your proof.

    Furthermore - did you consult their Ulema to see if there was a misunderstanding on your behalf or their communication ?

    If you haven't - then you taking a once occurrence and making a Fitna out of it.

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    Re: Was Jesus's body put on the cross?

    Assalamu alaykom

    I believe Shabbir Ally may hold this view and Allah knows best. Im speaking from pure memory btw , but I recall his saying that it may he possible that Jesus was on the Cross but did not actually die.

    If you guys watch any debates between Muslims and Christians regarding the topic of Crucifiction - The Muslim usually presents the inconsistencies between the Gospels and asserts that within the present Bible , Jesus did not die. Considering the Biblical inconsistencies , the argument is somewhat appealing.

    Considering that , I believe some have interpretted the ayah "Nor was he crucified" to mean that he did not die by crucifixtion.

    The obvious contention to this interpretation being a "Bid'ah". In response they say that this verse does not have any commentary by the Prophet Muhammad(saws) , and Muslims throughout the ages have suggested possible commentaries - which are ultimately speculative and Allah knows best.

    To the brother who mentioned the Salaf's substution of Judah proposition - if I recall correctly , this was a belief which may have been popular or known in that region via certain unorthodox Christians , which may render it as a suggestion rather than revelation.

    An ayah with such heavy theological implications , but without any further tafseer , it is quite interesting. Wallaahi it makes so much sense too. Completely frees the Christians from their deviance and innovations. Allah is certainly the best of planners.
    Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 21-10-17 at 06:22 PM.

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    Re: Was Jesus's body put on the cross?


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    Re: Was Jesus's body put on the cross?

    Crucifixion, like hanging, electric chair, gas chamber, etc is one of the capital punishments of the law of the day. Its purpose is, of course, to cause death to the accused who was sentenced to a death penalty. Thus, we should not see crucifixion any different from other death penalty forms of execution.

    There’s no reasons to doubt what the Holy Quran said – “That they said (in boast), “’We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah’ - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not—nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.” – (Quran 4:157-158).

    All Muslims will agree that Jesus was not killed, however, there are Muslims who still have doubts that Jesus was not even crucified. They said Jesus was in fact crucified BUT he survived the crucifixion. Those who said this are obviously trying to reconcile or narrow the gap on the difference of opinions on this matter between the Muslims and the Christians. While the intention may be good, this, however, is not about the opinion of the Muslim scholars or the Christian scholars – it’s about what the Holy Quran had stated and the Holy Quran is very clear and precise on this matter – “they killed him not, nor crucified him”.

    “They killed him not” is a statement of declaration, if you like, to those who boasted and those who believed the Jews and the Romans had killed Jesus when they have not and “nor was he crucified” is the added emphasis to the fact that Jesus was not killed for how could they have killed Jesus when they did not even crucify him… “for of a surety, they killed him not”. The statement 'nor was he crucified' is the surety or certainty that they did not kill Jesus the prophet.

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    Re: Was Jesus's body put on the cross?

    Concerning Al-Nisa: 155-158: ‘And so for breaking their pledge, for rejecting Allāh’s revelations, for unjustly killing their prophets, for saying: “Our minds are closed” - No! Allāh has sealed them in their disbelief, so they believe only a little - and because they disbelieved and uttered a terrible slander against Mary, and said: “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allāh.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, though it was made to appear like that to them; those that disagreed about him are full of doubt, with no knowledge to follow, only supposition: they certainly did not kill him - Allāh raised him up to Himself. Allāh is almighty and wise.’

    I’ve spent a while learning (and in some cases re-learning) what the Qur’an and others have to say about the crucifixion. I’ve read extracts of the tafâsîr (interpretations of the Qur’an) of Wahb Ibn Munabbih; Ṭabarî; Makkî Ibn Abi Ṭâlib; Qurṭubî; Ibn Kathîr; Suyűṭî; Ṭabâṭabâ’î ; and Jazâ’irî. All of them (apart from Ṭabâṭabâ’î) are saying that Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām) was not crucified, but that another was made to resemble him - and to take his place. It is not possible to justify, from Al-Nisa: 155-158, any notion of a substitute.

    There are those who say that the Qur’an is denying only that the Jews crucified Yeshua. Not so. The Qur’an is saying that Yeshua was not crucified (killed) at all - not by the Jews, and not by anyone else.

    Some agree with this; but only to argue that it was Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) Himself who did the killing. In support of their argument they quote: ‘Those who say: “Allāh is the Messiah, the son of Mary,” are defying the truth. Say: “If it had been Allāh’s will, could anyone have prevented Him from destroying the Messiah, son of Mary, together with his mother and everyone else on earth? Control of the heavens and earth and all that is between them belongs to Allāh: He creates whatever He will. God has power over everything.’ (Al-Ma’ida: 17); and this: ‘No soul may die except with Allāh’s permission at a predestined time.’ (Al‘Imran 145); and this: ‘The Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again. No one takes it from me; I lay it down of my own free will.’ (John 10: 17-18); and even this: ‘. . . it was the Lord's will to crush him . . .’ (From Isaiah 53: 1-12).

    Comment:

    The Qur’an uses two different terms when referring to death: ‘mawt’ and ‘tawaffâ’. The former is the Qur’an’s usual term for death.

    Mawt:

    A major point of distinction between ‘mawt’ and ‘tawaffâ’ is that only the former is associated with murder or manslaughter (‘qatala’). We see examples of the use of ‘qatala’ (and its derivatives) in the following: ‘And Pharaoh said: “Leave me to kill Moses (aqtulu Musa) - let him call upon his Lord! - for I fear he may cause you to change your religion, or spread disorder in the land.”’ (Ghafi: 26); and again: ‘They were struck with humiliation and wretchedness, and they incurred the wrath of Allāh because they persistently rejected His messages and killed (yaqtuloona) prophets contrary to all that is right. All this was because they disobeyed and were lawbreakers.’ (Al-Baqara: 61); and again: ‘Allāh has certainly heard the words of those who sneer, “So Allāh is poor, while we are rich”. We shall record everything they say – as well as their killing (wa qatlahum) of prophets in defiance of all that is right – and We shall say to them: “Taste the torment of the scorching fire.”’ (Al‘Imran: 181). There are several others verses where derivatives of ‘qatala’ are used when describing the death of prophets.

    With ‘mawt’ comes the natural decomposition of the body; its return to dust. There is no return from ‘mawt’, save on the Day of Resurrection.

    As far as I can tell, derivatives of ‘mawt’ and ‘qatala’- used as expressions of normal death when referring to the demise of all other prophets - are never used for Yeshua in this context. The term used to describe his departure is a derivative of ‘tawaffâ’. This appears to make the manner of his leaving something special.

    Tawaffâ:

    ‘Tawaffâ’ invokes the notion of completion and fulfilment. The Qur’anic image of death through ‘tawaffâ’ is quite different from that of ‘mawt’. For a start, ‘tawaffâ’ is never associated with ‘qatala’; instead, it is juxtaposed with ‘nawm’ (sleep). On two occasions sleep is described as a repeated nightly death (‘tawaffâ bil layl’): ‘It is He who calls your souls back by night, knowing what you have done by day, then raises you up again in the daytime until your fixed term is fulfilled. It is to Him that you will return in the end, and He will tell you what you have done.’ (Al-An‘am: 60); and again: ‘Allāh takes the souls of the dead and the souls of the living while they sleep – He keeps hold of those whose death He has ordained and sends the others back until their appointed time – there truly are signs in this for those who reflect.’ (Al-Zumar: 42).

    In the Qur’an the term ‘an appointed time’ is used in a general sense for the cycles of the sun and moon: ‘He makes the night merge into the day and the day into the night; He has subjected the sun and the moon - each runs for an appointed term.’ (Fatir: 13); for the waiting period associated with divorce: ‘If you are in doubt, the period of waiting will be three months for those women who have ceased menstruating and for those who have not (yet) menstruated; for the waiting period of those who are pregnant will be until they deliver their burden: ‘Allāh makes things easy for those who are mindful of Him.’ (Al-Talaq: 4); for the time that a widow has to wait before she can remarry: ‘If any of you die and leave widows, the widows should wait for four months and ten nights before remarrying.’ (Al-Baqara: 234); and when contracting the period of a loan: ‘You who believe, when you contract a debt for a stated term, put it down in writing: have a scribe write it down justly between you.’ (Al-Baqara: 282).

    The term is also applied, of course, in a particular sense to one’s predestined time for living.

    It is worth noting that whenever a verse includes a reference to a person’s predestined death the term used is always ‘mawt’. There are no exceptions. This suggests that when we reach our ‘appointed time’ we experience, not ‘tawaffâ’, but ‘mawt’; with no chance to return to life, save at the Day of Resurrection: ‘No soul may die except with Allāh’s permission at a predestined time. If anyone strives for the rewards of this world, We will give him some of them. If anyone strives for the rewards of the Hereafter, We will give him some of them: We will reward the grateful.’ (Al‘Imran: 145).

    There is no notion of physical damage or decomposition in ‘tawaffâ’. Likewise, there is no notion of a ‘non-return’ (as there is in ‘mawt’). It might be better, therefore, to avoid understanding and translating ‘tawaffâ’ as ‘death’; or ‘to die’; or ‘to cause to die’. People return from ‘tawaffâ’ every night of their lives. What makes the last experience of ‘tawaffâ’ non-returnable - as when someone dies in their sleep - lies not in tawaffâ own nature, but in its combination with ‘mawt’.

    There is nothing in the Qur’an to support the claim that Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) killed Yeshua; and nothing to justify the notion that he killed himself. But what are we to make of the words: ‘Allāh said: “Jesus, I will take you back and raise you up to Me.”’ (Al‘Imran: 55).

    The word ‘take’ in ‘I will take you back’ translates ‘mutawaffi’. Its root, of course, is w-f-y; the root of tawaffâ (and not that of mawt). Some mufassirűn interpret ‘mutawaffi’ to mean that Yesuha died, and was taken in death. Other mufassirűn say that this interpretation is problematic, since – as we have seen - ‘tawaffâ’ is not the same as ‘mawt’.

    It is for this reason, perhaps, that these same mufassirűn interpret ‘mutawaffi’ as a kind of sleep; since the Qur’an uses the same root (w-f-y) for sleeping, and - as we have seen - presents sleep as a kind of death.

    The word ‘raise’ in ‘and raise you up to me’ translates ‘rafa‘a’ (‘to raise’) rather than ‘ba‘atha’, which is used elsewhere to mean ‘to resurrect’ after death. Commenting on this, Abu Musa al-Ash'ari writes: ‘There is a consensus among the community of the faithful that the Prophet Jesus (as) was raised alive to the heavens.’ (‘al-Ibana 'an Usul al-Diyana); and Hasan Basri Cantay writes: ‘Allah raised and lifted up the Prophet Jesus (as) in both body and soul.’ (Tafsir of the Qur'an); and Imam ibn Taymiyya writes: ‘The verse "He raised him to His Presence" … explains that the Prophet Jesus (as) was raised in both body and soul.’ (Majmu' Fatawa).

    Citing both Al‘Imran 55 and Al-Nisa' 157-158, Zahid al-Kawthari claims that the ascension of Yeshua is beyond doubt: ‘That is because the basic meaning of the word rafa'a in the verses is transportation from below to above. There is no element here that could be used to interpret the verses metaphorically. Therefore, there is no evidence for seeking to produce a meaning in the sense of ascension in honour and station.’ (Nazra 'Abira fi Maza'im; page 93).

    The argument that Yeshua was raised alive - both body and soul - is strengthen by the use of the word ‘bal’ that appears in Al-Nisa 157-158. By way of explanation, Sheikh al-Islam Mustafa Sabri writes:

    ‘If the term ‘bal’, which appears in Surat Al-Nisa' 158 and which I have translated as "on the contrary," comes after a sentence expressing a negativity, then, according to the rules of Arabic linguistics, the sentence following it must mean the exact opposite of the one preceding it. The opposite of death is life. This is a requirement of the rules of linguistics. If we say that "the ascension here is a spiritual one" and "the Prophet Jesus (as) died in the normal sense," then we are violating that rule. In that case, the ascension following the expression "on the contrary" would not represent the opposite to the verbs of "killing" and "crucifying" in the negative sentence preceding it. That is because it may be possible for a person to be killed and for his or her soul to rise to the skies. Otherwise, this term would be meaningless, and there are no meaningless terms in the Qur'an … According to those who support the thesis that the ascension is only one of the soul, the meaning of the verse is this: "They did not kill him and did not crucify him … on the contrary (‘bal’), Allah raised his station." There is no particular oratory here, let alone succinctness … No rational person could take the words "The elevator in my building raises me to the fourth floor every day," to mean that I am only raised to the fourth floor in spirit. Therefore, neither was the Prophet Jesus (as) raised only in spirit. (‘Position of Reason’; page 233).

    Said Ramadan al-Buti interpreted the subject in the same way: ‘The mutual compatibility between the verses’ previous and later sections necessarily reveals a fact. For example, if an Arab says: "I am not hungry; on the contrary, I am lying on my side," this is not a correct sentence. In the same way, there is a discrepancy between the components in the sentence: "Khalid did not die; on the contrary, he is a good man." What would be correct is to say: "Khalid did not die; on the contrary, he is alive." To say: "The chairman was not killed; he is a man with a superior station in Allah's Presence" also leads to a break in meaning in the sentence, for his having a high station in Allah's Sight is no obstacle to his being killed. The term bal expresses a contradiction between the preceding and the following words. In other words, bal cancels out a previous statement. (Islamic Catechism: page 338).

    The conclusion (justified in my view) is that Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām) did not die, but was merely removed from this dimension by the Will of Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla); and He knows best.
    'Sometimes, silence is the best answer for a fool.' (Alī ibn Abī Tālib‎)

 

 

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