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  1. #1
    Senior Member Juwairiyyah's Avatar
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    Question about certain verses / how to reconcile them with reality?

    :

    First of all, let me preface by saying that these questions aren't about doubting or defying Islam or Al-Qur'an. There are simply questions that I hope someone more knowledgeable than me may be able to answer.

    1) "And do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Indeed, their killing is ever a great sin." (17:31)

    How do we reconcile this ayah with the fact that there are millions of children out there dying of starvation?

    2) "And they said, "If the Most Merciful had willed, we would not have worshipped them." They have of that no knowledge. They are not but falsifying." (43:20)

    In this ayah Allah quoted the mushrikoon who said that if Allah had willed they wouldn't have worshipped the idols. Allah said they're lying, but aren't they actually stating a fact? As Allah Himself said in multiple verses like these :

    "But if Allah had willed, they would not have associated. And We have not appointed you over them as a guardian, nor are you a manager over them." (6:107)

    "And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, [O Muhammad], would you compel the people in order that they become believers?"
    (10:99)

    "And if Allah had willed, He could have made you [of] one religion, but He causes to stray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And you will surely be questioned about what you used to do. (16:93)

    3) In general, why are there so many innocent people who are suffering? Children in particular. Girls and women especially, in certain backward countries, are treated in the most vile way imaginable. Born in poverty, sold in slavery, raped and tortured. Then they grew up trapped in those circumstances and the cycle repeats infinitely. Where's the justice in all this?

    Are there answers to these questions or do we have to simply accept that Allah does whatever He wills? If that is the case, I have no problem accepting that whatsoever.

  2. #2
    mommys boy msmoorad's Avatar
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    Re: Question about certain verses / how to reconcile them with reality?

    salaams to all

    why do u ask things like this here?
    how many of us are scholars?

    this is the Quran...
    it would be safer to email scholars and ask them directly.

    not only you, many others do this- they come here asking questions that very few are in a position to answer correctly
    and next thing u know, so many ppl are offering their opinion.

    heres the link for a madressah in Durban, South Africa
    they predominantly follow the Hanafi madhab but have students with different or NO madhab as well.

    http://alhaadi.org.za/contactus.html

    and Allah ta'ala knows best
    jazakallah
    Sufyaan Thawri "Whoever is very popular with his relations and neighbours, we suspect him to be compromising in preaching the true teachings of religion."
    very good site for English bayaans in MP3 format-check it out- u wont be disappointed: http://www.musjidnoor.za.net/index.html & http://alhaadi.org.za/majlis-program...downloads.html

  3. #3
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    Re: Question about certain verses / how to reconcile them with reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juwairiyyah View Post
    :

    First of all, let me preface by saying that these questions aren't about doubting or defying Islam or Al-Qur'an. There are simply questions that I hope someone more knowledgeable than me may be able to answer.
    Wa Alaykas-Salam,

    If the result or basis of your "questions" are in fact a form of "doubting" or "defying Islam or Al-Qur'an", then prefacing your statements with a denial of that does not negate the reality of your statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juwairiyyah View Post
    1) "And do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Indeed, their killing is ever a great sin." (17:31)

    How do we reconcile this ayah with the fact that there are millions of children out there dying of starvation?
    This Ayah refers to specifically to the act of burying/killing infants after they are born. This was a specific practice in the time of the Prophet SAWS and it still occurs today, however not as a general practice or custom.

    So the Ayah has nothing to do with your question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juwairiyyah View Post
    2) "And they said, "If the Most Merciful had willed, we would not have worshipped them." They have of that no knowledge. They are not but falsifying." (43:20)

    In this ayah Allah quoted the mushrikoon who said that if Allah had willed they wouldn't have worshipped the idols. Allah said they're lying, but aren't they actually stating a fact? As Allah Himself said in multiple verses like these :

    "But if Allah had willed, they would not have associated. And We have not appointed you over them as a guardian, nor are you a manager over them." (6:107)

    "And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, [O Muhammad], would you compel the people in order that they become believers?"
    (10:99)

    "And if Allah had willed, He could have made you [of] one religion, but He causes to stray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And you will surely be questioned about what you used to do. (16:93)
    The statement of the Mushrikeen is a rejection of the invitation to worship Allah alone and an attribution of their polytheism to Allah's will. While the statements of Allah are an affirmation of the Divine Decree and Divine Will.

    The actions of the slaves are a result of their own choices, though Allah pre-ordained everything and only happens if Allah wills. So human beings cannot blame Allah for their choices or attribute them to Allah, especially not sins or evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juwairiyyah View Post
    3) In general, why are there so many innocent people who are suffering? Children in particular. Girls and women especially, in certain backward countries, are treated in the most vile way imaginable. Born in poverty, sold in slavery, raped and tortured. Then they grew up trapped in those circumstances and the cycle repeats infinitely. Where's the justice in all this?

    Are there answers to these questions or do we have to simply accept that Allah does whatever He wills? If that is the case, I have no problem accepting that whatsoever.
    Allah does not do any of the things mentioned above, rather human beings do them.

    When you sin, do you attribute your sin to Allah?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Juwairiyyah's Avatar
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    Re: Question about certain verses / how to reconcile them with reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    Wa Alaykas-Salam,
    If the result or basis of your "questions" are in fact a form of "doubting" or "defying Islam or Al-Qur'an", then prefacing your statements with a denial of that does not negate the reality of your statements.
    These are not doubts. Was Prophet Ibrahim A.S. doubting the power of Allah when he asked to be shown how Allah revives the dead? No. It was only to calm his heart. That's what I'm doing.

    This Ayah refers to specifically to the act of burying/killing infants after they are born. This was a specific practice in the time of the Prophet SAWS and it still occurs today, however not as a general practice or custom.

    So the Ayah has nothing to do with your question.
    The infants were killed because the parents fear they will not be able to provide, so they would die anyway. Allah forbade the killing and stated that He will provide. My question is obviously related to the ayah.

    Granted, there might not be an answer to this. Allah know best.

    The statement of the Mushrikeen is a rejection of the invitation to worship Allah alone and an attribution of their polytheism to Allah's will. While the statements of Allah are an affirmation of the Divine Decree and Divine Will.

    The actions of the slaves are a result of their own choices, though Allah pre-ordained everything and only happens if Allah wills. So human beings cannot blame Allah for their choices or attribute them to Allah, especially not sins or evil.
    Of course, we are responsible for our actions and can't attribute sins to Allah. But my question is why does Allah call them liars about that particular statement when they were in fact stating a truth as He himself confirms in another verse?

    The Mushrikeen obviously had lied about Allah before as shown in this ayah :

    "And when they commit an immorality, they say, "We found our fathers doing it, and Allah has ordered us to do it." Say, "Indeed, Allah does not order immorality. Do you say about Allah that which you do not know?" (7:28)

    But in verse (43:20) I don't understand how it was considered a lie.

  5. #5
    striving to be sincere Abu Kamel's Avatar
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    Re: Question about certain verses / how to reconcile them with reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juwairiyyah View Post
    :


    1) "And do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Indeed, their killing is ever a great sin." (17:31)

    How do we reconcile this ayah with the fact that there are millions of children out there dying of starvation?

    I have been thinking about your questions and have considered some answers, may Allah forgive me for misguidance, and all guidance is from Allah.

    The issue is not about reconciling the ayah from Allah AWJ with reality. Rather, two different issues are confused. The one issue is "INFANTICIDE", the other is "STARVATION AND FAMINE".

    Those two matters aside, it seems you have joined the two issues because you are actually asking about RIZQ as a concept of QADR. So the question might be "how does RIZQ apply to reality when there are children starving and suffering from famine and Allah has said Allah provides?"

    Allah says in the Holy Quran 11:6

    And there is no creature on earth but that upon Allah is its provision [rizquha], and He knows its place of dwelling and place of storage. All is in a clear register.
    And there are many other Divine texts ( from Quran and Sunnah) that inform us of Rizq as part of Qadr. Qadr is a complex topic which requires study with one qualified and schooled in the matter, contemplation to develop discipline to control one's thoughts and focus on correct matters, and self examination to root out one's misconceptions.

    54:59
    Indeed, all things We created with predestination [biqadareen]
    Hadith of Gabriel : When the angel asked what is eemaan, the Prophet () said 'Eemaan is to believe in Allah His angels, books, messengers, day of judgement and Al- qadar the good and bad' (sahih Bukhari)

    Hadith of Jabir: 'No slave of Allah will truly believe until he believes in Al Qadr its good and bad from Allah, until he knows that what has befallen him was not going to miss him and that what missed him was not going to befallen him.'(Tirmidhi)

    Here, we see Divine Guidance on how we should understand, know, and then believe in Qadr.

    There are many many other Divine Texts addressing Rizq:
    3:37
    29:60
    65:2,3
    24:38
    20:132
    5:88

    There are many more. Rizq is entirely with Allah. And then, Allah commands us to seek out Rizq, but only through halal ways, ie. according to Shariah. And not to become weak and loose belief by doubting Allah when Allah AWJ reduces rizq, as in decreases rizq, and causing one to suffer from fitan- afflictions, diseases, trials.

    And this is because 29:2,3
    Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" and they will not be tried?
    But We have certainly tried those before them, and Allah will surely make evident those who are truthful, and He will surely make evident the liars.


    So the matter refers to how to know and understand, and then believe in Rizq as a part of Qadr.

    Ibn Mas'ud narrated:
    "The Messenger of Allah () stood among us and said: 'One thing does not infect another.' So a Bedouin said: 'O Messenger of Allah! If a camel gets mangy glands and we leave it at the resting place of camels, then all of the camels get mange?' The Messenger of Allah () said: 'Who caused the first to get manage? There is no 'Adwa nor safar. Allah created every soul, so He wrote its life, its provision, and its afflictions.'" [sahih Tirmidhi]

    In here is addition wisdom to help the believers.

    As was taught to me, if one were to consider that there are two spheres of influence 1) in which human freewill has limited determination, such as you can will your fingers to type on the keyboard to communicate with others, and 2) the sphere in which Allah's Qadr determines all matters regardless of human will.
    There is a point in which the two sphere overlap in which human will is held accountable. If you build a road and then make the slope of the curve such that every car driving over a certain speed will careen off the road to the driver's death, then the engineer/builders of that road are faced with a certain degree of accountability for the deaths on that curve.

    Similarly, the one who places his sick camel with others so that other camels are sickened has a degree of accountability.

    Thus, the matter which should MOST CONCERN THE BELIEVER is to know in what matters he/she is held accountable, and what should the believer do, or what does Allah AWJ Command of us?

    In terms of the camels, the camel owner who knows his camel is sick with a contagious disease, he should keep it away from other camels until it is healthy.

    In terms of the curve in the road, the engineer should build the road with the proper slope, or if he cannot, he must reduce the speed and warn the drivers to keep them away from uncontrollable speeds and dangerous driving on the curve.

    For the matter of starving children in the world, children are parts of families and people and nations. And human will has determined the affairs of people throughout the world to be according to KUFR LAWS and kufr, unjust treaties. As a result, these children are part of people, especially Muslim people, who refuse to implement Islam, willfully oppose the resumption of Islam and obedience and submission to Allah.

    By implementing kufr, Muslim people in particular bring the afflictions of famine and starvation upon themselves. And the starvation of children in particular falls on the necks of rulers who rule by kufr, and those who support them.

    And this is clear throughout the Muslim world.

    Mu’awiyah said:
    “I heard the Prophet (ﷺ) say: ‘There is nothing left of this world except trials and tribulations.’” [sahih ibn Majah]

    It was narrated that ‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar said:
    “The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) turned to us and said: ‘O Muhajirun, there are five things with which you will be tested, and I seek refuge with Allah lest you live to see them:
    1) Immorality [fahisha] never appears among a people to such an extent that they commit it openly, but plagues and diseases that were never known among the predecessors will spread among them.
    2)They do not cheat in weights and measures but they will be stricken with famine, severe calamity and the oppression of their rulers.
    3)They do not withhold the Zakah of their wealth, but rain will be withheld from the sky, and were it not for the animals, no rain would fall on them.
    4)They do not break their covenant with Allah and His Messenger, but Allah will enable their enemies to overpower them and take some of what is in their hands.
    5) Unless their leaders rule according to the Book of Allah and seek all good from that which Allah has revealed, Allah will cause them to fight one another.’” [sahih Ibn Majah]

    So the matter is really about knowing what is required of the believer, in terms of the Command of Allah, the Divine Law - Ahkam Sharaa- and how Allah guides us in the trials and tribulations of this life.
    Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
    " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

  6. #6
    Abu-Tawheed Saif-Uddin's Avatar
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    Re: Question about certain verses / how to reconcile them with reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juwairiyyah View Post
    :

    First of all, let me preface by saying that these questions aren't about doubting or defying Islam or Al-Qur'an. There are simply questions that I hope someone more knowledgeable than me may be able to answer.

    1) "And do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Indeed, their killing is ever a great sin." (17:31)

    How do we reconcile this ayah with the fact that there are millions of children out there dying of starvation?

    2) "And they said, "If the Most Merciful had willed, we would not have worshipped them." They have of that no knowledge. They are not but falsifying." (43:20)

    In this ayah Allah quoted the mushrikoon who said that if Allah had willed they wouldn't have worshipped the idols. Allah said they're lying, but aren't they actually stating a fact? As Allah Himself said in multiple verses like these :

    "But if Allah had willed, they would not have associated. And We have not appointed you over them as a guardian, nor are you a manager over them." (6:107)

    "And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, [O Muhammad], would you compel the people in order that they become believers?"
    (10:99)

    "And if Allah had willed, He could have made you [of] one religion, but He causes to stray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And you will surely be questioned about what you used to do. (16:93)

    3) In general, why are there so many innocent people who are suffering? Children in particular. Girls and women especially, in certain backward countries, are treated in the most vile way imaginable. Born in poverty, sold in slavery, raped and tortured. Then they grew up trapped in those circumstances and the cycle repeats infinitely. Where's the justice in all this?

    Are there answers to these questions or do we have to simply accept that Allah does whatever He wills? If that is the case, I have no problem accepting that whatsoever.
    @Juwairiyah

    Wa alaikumsalaam warahmatullahi wa barakatu,

    1. There is no link between someone starving to death and infanticide, you did not understand the Ayah at all.

    2. The Ayaat you quoted about Allah عز و جل are talking about him compelling people to believe,

    Whereas the one you quoted about the Kuffar/Mushrikun are about them using it as an excuse for disbelief, in other words they are blaming their disbelief on Allah عز و جل on his Qadr etc

    Nauzibillah min zaliq

    Allah عز و جل says in ...

    Surah Al-Baqarah : Ayah 26

    اِنَّ اللّٰهَ لَا يَسْتَحْـىٖۤ اَنْ يَّضْرِبَ مَثَلًا مَّا *بَعُوْضَةً فَمَا فَوْقَهَاؕ فَاَمَّا *الَّذِيْنَ اٰمَنُوْا فَيَعْلَمُوْنَ اَنَّهُ الْحَـقُّ مِنْ رَّبِّهِمْۚ وَاَمَّا الَّذِيْنَ كَفَرُوْا فَيَقُوْلُوْنَ مَاذَآ اَرَادَ اللّٰهُ بِهٰذَا مَثَلًاۘ يُضِلُّ بِهٖ كَثِيْرًا وَّيَهْدِىْ بِهٖ كَثِيْرًاؕ وَمَا يُضِلُّ بِهٖۤ اِلَّا الْفٰسِقِيْنَۙ

    Verily, Allah is not ashamed to set forth a parable even of a mosquito or so much more when it is bigger (or less when it is smaller) than it. And as for those who believe, they know that it is the Truth from their Lord, but as for those who disbelieve, they say: "What did Allah intend by this parable?" By it He misleads many, and many He guides thereby. And He misleads thereby only those who are Al-Fasiqun (the rebellious, disobedient to Allah).

    Allah عز و جل shows us here that the blame is always on the culprit, who disbelieved, went astray etc

    These sort of questions arise from a lack of understanding of Qadr.

    3. You should read the Ayaat stating the fact that we will all be tested in various ways...

    For example...

    Surah Al-Baqarah : Ayah 155

    وَلَـنَبْلُوَنَّكُمْ بِشَىْءٍ مِّنَ الْخَـوْفِ وَالْجُـوْعِ وَنَقْصٍ مِّنَ الْاَمْوَالِ وَالْاَنْفُسِ وَالثَّمَرٰتِؕ وَبَشِّرِ الصّٰبِرِيْنَۙ

    And certainly, We shall test you with something of fear, hunger, loss of wealth, lives and fruits, but give glad tidings to As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.).

    Last edited by Saif-Uddin; 22-10-17 at 10:00 AM.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Juwairiyyah's Avatar
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    Re: Question about certain verses / how to reconcile them with reality?

    @Abu Kamel

    for your in-depth answer. I really appreciate it.

    If you have the time, please answer question #2 also.

  8. #8
    Abu-Tawheed Saif-Uddin's Avatar
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    Re: Question about certain verses / how to reconcile them with reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juwairiyyah View Post
    @Abu Kamel

    for your in-depth answer. I really appreciate it.

    If you have the time, please answer question #2 also.
    It's been answered already,

    What is it that you don't understand?
    http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

    "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

    – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

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    Odan talibilm09's Avatar
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    Re: Question about certain verses / how to reconcile them with reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juwairiyyah View Post
    :

    First of all, let me preface by saying that these questions aren't about doubting or defying Islam or Al-Qur'an. There are simply questions that I hope someone more knowledgeable than me may be able to answer.

    1) "And do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Indeed, their killing is ever a great sin." (17:31)

    How do we reconcile this ayah with the fact that there are millions of children out there dying of starvation?

    2) "And they said, "If the Most Merciful had willed, we would not have worshipped them." They have of that no knowledge. They are not but falsifying." (43:20)

    In this ayah Allah quoted the mushrikoon who said that if Allah had willed they wouldn't have worshipped the idols. Allah said they're lying, but aren't they actually stating a fact? As Allah Himself said in multiple verses like these :

    "But if Allah had willed, they would not have associated. And We have not appointed you over them as a guardian, nor are you a manager over them." (6:107)

    "And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, [O Muhammad], would you compel the people in order that they become believers?"
    (10:99)

    "And if Allah had willed, He could have made you [of] one religion, but He causes to stray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And you will surely be questioned about what you used to do. (16:93)

    3) In general, why are there so many innocent people who are suffering? Children in particular. Girls and women especially, in certain backward countries, are treated in the most vile way imaginable. Born in poverty, sold in slavery, raped and tortured. Then they grew up trapped in those circumstances and the cycle repeats infinitely. Where's the justice in all this?

    Are there answers to these questions or do we have to simply accept that Allah does whatever He wills? If that is the case, I have no problem accepting that whatsoever.


    We cant cherry pick some verses and assume our own meanings but try to see the glorious in its entirety . Allah did not force people nor likes to force people which is seen from another verse 26:3-4

    ''Perhaps, [O Muhammad], you would kill yourself with grief that they will not be believers. If We will, We could send down to them from the heaven a sign, to which they would bend their necks in humility.''

    &

    10:100 '' And it is not for a soul to believe except by permission of Allah , and He will place defilement upon those who will not use reason.''

    Last but not the least Al Qadr of Allah OUGHT to be proved and Allah has made this world a Test for man to prove himself & also a proof (on the DOJ) how right was Allah by placing a person in a position what he deserved, Allah The All wise, & The All Just before dividing them into the groups of fire and the groups for jannah. Al Qadr is a topic which Prophet had barred from indulging into deep discussion which will lead to disbelief.

    Allah knows the best
    My sect - No Sect

    My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

    Just a Muslim

  10. #10
    Senior Member Juwairiyyah's Avatar
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    Re: Question about certain verses / how to reconcile them with reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
    It's been answered already,

    What is it that you don't understand?
    I already responded to your answer in post #4. The question is not about Qadr or accountability, rather it's about the tafseer of the second half of the verse.

    "They have of that no knowledge. They are not but falsifying." (43:20)

    What does it mean "they have no knowledge"? Isn't this a basic knowledge of the concept of Qadr i.e. nothing happens without Allah's will, and even the mushrikun acknowledged this? Yes, they're saying it out of arrogance, but how does that make it a lie?

    It seems to me (from my limited perspective, May Allah forgive me if I said something wrong) a response to a different question.

    Perhaps the way I phrased the questions in the OP was not clear, just like my first question was not about infanticide but about rizq, and brother Abu Kamel understood that and gave an answer that makes sense. I appreciate the fact that he explained in detail about rizq and qadr, and didn't dismiss my questions by giving a simplistic reply which doesn't explain anything.

    Qadr is not a taboo topic. Yes, we cannot delve too deep into it, but it's possible to get some answers. The sahabah once asked the Prophet "what's the point of 'amal if everything is written" and he responded to them and didn't criticize them for asking such questions.

  11. #11
    Abu-Tawheed Saif-Uddin's Avatar
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    Re: Question about certain verses / how to reconcile them with reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juwairiyyah View Post
    I already responded to your answer in post #4. The question is not about Qadr or accountability, rather it's about the tafseer of the second half of the verse.

    "They have of that no knowledge. They are not but falsifying." (43:20)

    What does it mean "they have no knowledge"? Isn't this a basic knowledge of the concept of Qadr i.e. nothing happens without Allah's will, and even the mushrikun acknowledged this? Yes, they're saying it out of arrogance, but how does that make it a lie?

    It seems to me (from my limited perspective, May Allah forgive me if I said something wrong) a response to a different question.

    Perhaps the way I phrased the questions in the OP was not clear, just like my first question was not about infanticide but about rizq, and brother Abu Kamel understood that and gave an answer that makes sense. I appreciate the fact that he explained in detail about rizq and qadr, and didn't dismiss my questions by giving a simplistic reply which doesn't explain anything.

    Qadr is not a taboo topic. Yes, we cannot delve too deep into it, but it's possible to get some answers. The sahabah once asked the Prophet "what's the point of 'amal if everything is written" and he responded to them and didn't criticize them for asking such questions.
    @Juwairiyyah

    Did you read the Tafsir?

    Here it is...

    وَقَالُوا لَوْ شَاء الرَّحْمَنُ مَا عَبَدْنَاهُم

    And they said "If it had been the will of the Most Gracious, we should not have worshipped them."

    means, (they said) `if Allah had willed, He would have prevented us from worshipping these idols which are images of the angels who are the daughters of Allah; He knows about this and He approves of it.'


    By saying this, they combined several types of error:

    First:They attributed offspring to Allah -- exalted and sanctified be He far above that.

    Second:They claimed that He chose daughters rather than sons, and they made the angels, who are the servants of the Most Gracious, female.

    Third:They worshipped them with no proof, evidence or permission from Allah. This was based on mere opinion, whims and desires, imitation of their elders and forefathers, and pure ignorance. They used Allah's decree as an excuse, and this reasoning betrayed their ignorance.

    Fourth:Allah denounced them for this in the strongest terms, for from the time He first sent Messengers and revealed Books, the command was to worship Him Alone with no partner or associate, and it was forbidden to worship anything other than Him.

    Allah says:

    وَلَقَدْ بَعَثْنَا فِى كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ رَّسُولاً أَنِ اعْبُدُواْ اللَّهَ وَاجْتَنِبُواْ الْطَّـغُوتَ فَمِنْهُم مَّنْ هَدَى اللَّهُ وَمِنْهُمْ مَّنْ حَقَّتْ عَلَيْهِ الضَّلَـلَةُ فَسِيرُواْ فِى الاٌّرْضِ فَانظُرُواْ كَيْفَ كَانَ عَـقِبَةُ الْمُكَذِّبِينَ

    And verily, We have sent among every Ummah a Messenger (proclaiming):"Worship Allah, and avoid all false deities."

    Then of them were some whom Allah guided and of them were some upon whom the straying was justified.

    So travel through the land and see what was the end of those who denied. (16:36)

    وَاسْيلْ مَنْ أَرْسَلْنَا مِن قَبْلِكَ مِن رُّسُلِنَأ أَجَعَلْنَا مِن دُونِ الرَّحْمَـنِ ءَالِهَةً يُعْبَدُونَ

    And ask those of Our Messengers whom We sent before you:"Did We ever appoint gods to be worshipped besides the Most Gracious" (43:45)

    And Allah says in this Ayah, after mentioning this argument of theirs:

    مَّا لَهُم بِذَلِكَ مِنْ عِلْمٍ

    They have no knowledge whatsoever of that.

    meaning, of the truth of what they say and the arguments they put forward.

    إِنْ هُمْ إِلاَّ يَخْرُصُونَ


    They do nothing but lie!

    means, they tell lies and fabricate untruths.

    Mujahid said about

    مَّا لَهُم بِذَلِكَ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِنْ هُمْ إِلاَّا يَخْرُصُونَ
    (They have no knowledge whatsoever of that. They do nothing but lie!),

    "They do not appreciate the power of Allah.

    Last edited by Saif-Uddin; 23-10-17 at 10:35 AM.
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    – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

  12. #12
    striving to be sincere Abu Kamel's Avatar
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    Re: Question about certain verses / how to reconcile them with reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juwairiyyah View Post
    @Abu Kamel

    for your in-depth answer. I really appreciate it.

    If you have the time, please answer question #2 also.
    In order to understand the ayaat of the Holy Quran, one should look first to the Holy Quran itself, as you listed some similar ayaat. However, there are more relevant ayaat that were revealed about the same issue, for the same reason, if not at the same time as 43:20. In terms of addressing meaning, those ayaat revealed at the same time, addressing the same issue, or the same exact people, have greater precedent than those which were revealed at other times and addressing other people. So one should look at this closer context within the Book.

    According to Ibn Juzaay Al Kalbi's work, 43:20 was revealed regarding the mushrikeen of Bani Malih of Bani Khuza`ah, a tribe living in and around Makka who were mushrikeen with Quraish and who ruled Makka before the Quraish. They were mushrikeen Arabs who worshipped Jinn and Malaikat and made false claims that the angels were daughters of Allah. The surah was revealed in the latter Makki period during the persecution of the believers in Makkah.

    As Saifiddin cited, Ibn Kathir's Tafsir grouped 43:20 with the previous 5 ayaat which list the false claims of Bani Malih regarding their mushrik doctrine. And the following four ayat also address the Khuza`ah, showing that their doctrine was not based on Wahy, nor a Holy Book, nor a Prophet of Allah, but it was based on "following fathers". And Allah AWJ breaks it down further, showing that the affluent/wealthy/influential - the Brahmins of the mushrikeen - are those who perpetuate shirk, who empower it against what Allah reveals. And Allah warns us regarding those who openly defy belief and uphold shirk, also known as Tawaghit:

    43:25
    So We took revenge of them, then see what was the end of those who denied .
    As for 43:20 itself,

    And they said, "If the Most Merciful had Willed, we would not have worshipped them." They have of that no knowledge. They do nothing but lie.
    Allah particularly and explicitly stated that they lied through conjecture, attributing claims with no evidence! So it is not for believers to contradict Allah, but to understand how they lied.

    Looking at the ayat you cited previously- 16:93, 6:107: 10:99- it appears your question is about the Will of Allah, and does it compel people.

    From my limited understanding, the mushrikeen of Bani Malih presented an argument similar to the claims of contemporary Christians: if one is able to accomplish something, then that means it is what Allah wanted for them. As a result, they believe Allah's Will is the same is what Allah Wants, or what Allah Commands.

    This is an issue of Qadr, confusing the Will of Allah. The Will of Allah is the overall determinant in anything occurring in reality. Everything that happens happens only by the Will of Allah. The most heinous thing that happens, abhorrent, unimaginable to mankind, but it happens, shirk, and it only happened by the Will of Allah. Does that mean Allah wanted it to happen, or that it happened because of Allah's Command?

    Nothing happens outside His Will.
    Within His Will, there is limited freewill such that a person, or jinn, can believe, or disbelieve. Allah guides through His Wahy in which His Command is conveyed to mankind. His Command from His Wahy provides us the Hidaya for our lives, which forbids shirk.

    2:185
    Allah wants [yureedu] for you ease, and He does not want to make things difficult for you
    .
    2:21
    O mankind! Worship your Lord (Allah),
    3:108
    Allah wants [yureedu] no injustice to the worlds.
    Allah AWJ Wants us to follow His Command, to purify ourselves, to worship only Allah, to stand for Adl- Justice, for the Deen, to gain His Satisfaction, Radiya.

    Back to 43:20, it appears that Bani Malih intentionally confused what Allah Wants with Allah's Will, saying because they were able to worship angels and jinn, then that means Allah approve/wanted it, and called it the "will of the Merciful". This is further evident in Allah's reply to them, that they were liars, they had no prophet nor a book confirming their beliefs. Rather, it was their wealthy who perpetuated this lie.

    So it appears one interpretation of 43:20 is the mushrikeen lied to perpetuate their mushrik deen. And they intentionally confused the Will of Allah with what Allah Wants.

    The good news is Bani Khuza`ah eventually allied with the Prophet against the mushrikeen Quraish. When the Quraish attacked the Khuza`ah, that breached the treaty of Hudaybiyah and the Prophet followed that by liberating Makkah from shirk. They then became Muslims.

    And Allah knows best.
    Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
    " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

 

 

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