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  1. #1
    Odan muzzybee's Avatar
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    In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Is hijra compulsary.

    I mean not all wives can be teachers and nurses and of course due to fitna,should the couple do hijrah...to a land where a wife can be at home and husbands work is enough to survive..

    We see so many instances sisters say men dont do their job properly and they are forced to work

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    اصبر aynina's Avatar
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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Very interesting, here its already hard to get through the month if both work, and i cant come up with a job that is actually halal for a woman... also if she works anf then has to put her kids in daycare i dont see the use, i mean i really wanna raise my own children...

    Its something that i think about a lot too
    يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

    O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

    Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

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    Odan
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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Men cant control what they will earn, this was pre-determined.
    What we can control in what we spend.
    A smaller house/car etc will do just fine.

    Contentment is key

    There are exceptions though.

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzybee View Post
    Is hijra compulsary.

    I mean not all wives can be teachers and nurses and of course due to fitna,should the couple do hijrah...to a land where a wife can be at home and husbands work is enough to survive..

    We see so many instances sisters say men dont do their job properly and they are forced to work
    1st I would question reason for dual income? Isn't in Islam husband's duty to provide for his wife and children ?
    Maybe they need to reduce standards of living. Do we really need bigger and better Dunyah, making him things even harder, Subhana'Allah.
    Hijra isn't cheap either...

    What about beautiful example of Fatima ra and Ali ibn talib ra.

    It was narrated from ‘Ali [رضى الله عنه], “Fatimah [رضى الله عنها] complained about the pain caused to her hand by the mill, and some prisoners had been brought to the Prophet [صلّى الله عليه و سلّم], so she went but did not find him, but she met A’ishah and told her.
    When the Prophet [صلّى الله عليه و سلّم] came, A’ishah told him about Fatimah coming to her. The Prophet*came to us, and we had gone to bed. We started to get up, but the Prophet*[صلّى الله عليه و سلّم] said: “Stay where you are.” Then he sat between us, until I could feel the coolness of his foot on my chest. Then he said:“
    “Shall I not teach you something better than what you asked for? When you go to your bed, magnify Allah thirty-four times, glorify Him thirty-three times and praise Him thirty-three times. That is better for you than a servant.””
    [Sahih Al-Bukhari: 3502 and Muslim: 2727]

  5. #5
    اصبر aynina's Avatar
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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekoor View Post
    Men cant control what they will earn, this was pre-determined.
    What we can control in what we spend.
    A smaller house/car etc will do just fine.

    Contentment is key

    There are exceptions though.
    Well imagine a brother makes 1200 euros a month and the cheapest place he can get is 500 euros (based on my city)
    I was home alone with my bro gor 1 week and i spend 100 euros on food (he eats out in the weekend so only 5 days of food and i barely eat) so 400 euros a month for food has us at 900 euros and then add the bills on top, and gas for the car to get him to work is prolly 50 a week which is 200 a month gets us at 1100 a month excl. Bills, we're already making dept and we didnt even buy anything apart from food.
    يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

    O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

    Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by aynina View Post
    Well imagine a brother makes 1200 euros a month and the cheapest place he can get is 500 euros (based on my city)
    I was home alone with my bro gor 1 week and i spend 100 euros on food (he eats out in the weekend so only 5 days of food and i barely eat) so 400 euros a month for food has us at 900 euros and then add the bills on top, and gas for the car to get him to work is prolly 50 a week which is 200 a month gets us at 1100 a month excl. Bills, we're already making dept and we didnt even buy anything apart from food.
    I said there are exceptions...

    What would happened if the income was less?

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    اصبر aynina's Avatar
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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekoor View Post
    I said there are exceptions...

    What would happened if the income was less?
    This is minimumwage in belgium.
    يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

    O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

    Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by aynina View Post
    This is minimumwage in belgium.
    Point is you would adjust...

    Maybe cheaper place or public transport etc etc.

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Life is very expensive nowadays, even when you really tighten the purse strings. The rental market in the UK has gone mad in most cities, meaning that having a roof over your head can take two thirds of your salary. Throw in a few kids and you get the picture. In the UK we are very fortunate to have tax credit top ups, housing benefit top ups, child benefit etc so it lulls people who are perhaps on a minimum wage job into a false sense of security. In the Muslim lands these don't exist and throw in medical costs (if you don't have insurance cover in your job) and schools for your children (again, if this is not covered/subsidized by the job) and then it hits you that you can't actually afford to live in your new country. This happened to us, although we had very high medical costs for one child which is exceptional. I was offered a job as a teacher which would have covered our rent and cut school fees in half but was very concerned about the attitude towards employees; it was almost as if you were signing your soul over to them. If one of the children got sick and had to have a day off school for example, I wouldn't have been excused in the way there is "emergency leave" in the UK workplace. You were allowed 3 days for a death of a near relative and 6 weeks for maternity leave and that was it.

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    اصبر aynina's Avatar
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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekoor View Post
    Point is you would adjust...

    Maybe cheaper place or public transport etc etc.
    True but then i would feel guitly that he has to live that life because i dont work
    يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

    O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

    Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by aynina View Post
    True but then i would feel guitly that he has to live that life because i dont work
    And therein lies the danger

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    I really don't think that it is about men not doing their job properly either. Some men maybe do not have a high educational background and they are on the minimum wage. He might work 60 hours a week, so is not entitled to any help but it is still not enough to pay rent and to live a basic life. By applying this logic this means that only rich men can/should get married. It is very common in muslim countries for men to seek a working wife as even 'good' jobs are not enough to sustain families in an increasingly expensive society.

    My advice from my own experience: utilize every opportunity you have in the West to build up your academic/vocational profile to enable you to have choice about moving if you wish.

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    اصبر aynina's Avatar
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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekoor View Post
    And therein lies the danger
    Wym?
    يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

    O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

    Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

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    Wanderer Stoic Believer's Avatar
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    In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    I don't understand what is meant by "men not doing their jobs." If the couple is perfectly capable of living on the man's income, but he still makes his wife work, then yes I would say he's not doing his job. But if the guy is working super hard and his income is still not enough, and he needs his wife to work, I would certainly hope he is not resented for that.

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    I don't understand what is meant by "men not doing their jobs." If the couple is perfectly capable of living on the man's income, but he still makes his wife work, then yes I would say he's not doing his job. But if the guy is working super hard and his income is still not enough, and he needs his wife to work, I would certainly hope he is not resented for that.
    Only if he is doing 50% of the housework/cooking/childcare. The resentment problem creeps in when the woman is also working FT but the man kicks off his socks and shoes whilst the woman is running ragged at home trying to keep on top of these things. There is no way i would work FT, pay into the house and then come home to do everything myself.

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by aynina View Post
    Wym?
    We will not be questioned on what made us feel guilty...
    But on the knowledge we had and how we practiced upon it.

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    اصبر aynina's Avatar
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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekoor View Post
    We will not be questioned on what made us feel guilty...
    But on the knowledge we had and how we practiced upon it.
    So you saying if i ended up in that situation i should ho out and find a job
    يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

    O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

    Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Umm Fatimah View Post
    Only if he is doing 50% of the housework/cooking/childcare. The resentment problem creeps in when the woman is also working FT but the man kicks off his socks and shoes whilst the woman is running ragged at home trying to keep on top of these things. There is no way i would work FT, pay into the house and then come home to do everything myself.
    That's often a matter of personality or taste. I can remember years ago giving advice to couples where the woman made just your complaint. The men pointed out that they'd done just as much - or as little, if you prefer - housework when they'd lived on his own, so why should they bother now?

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by aynina View Post
    So you saying if i ended up in that situation i should ho out and find a job
    Due to guilt NO
    Out of dire need YES

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Sceptic View Post
    That's often a matter of personality or taste. I can remember years ago giving advice to couples where the woman made just your complaint. The men pointed out that they'd done just as much - or as little, if you prefer - housework when they'd lived on his own, so why should they bother now?
    Well no it isn't down to taste or personality. I can't imagine many many who HAVE to work FT in order to survive revel in the thought of coming home and doing 100% of everything there too. Of course the man should bother, she is making up his shortfall so he should have the same decency!

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Hijra to where?

    There is no Caliphate or Islamic State to migrate to.

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Umm Fatimah View Post
    Well no it isn't down to taste or personality. I can't imagine many many who HAVE to work FT in order to survive revel in the thought of coming home and doing 100% of everything there too. Of course the man should bother, she is making up his shortfall so he should have the same decency!
    Well, no, not many men "who HAVE to work FT in order to survive revel in the thought of coming home and doing 100% of everything there too". They just didn't bother when they weren't married and they don't see why they - or their wives - should bother when they are married.

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Sceptic View Post
    Well, no, not many men "who HAVE to work FT in order to survive revel in the thought of coming home and doing 100% of everything there too". They just didn't bother when they weren't married and they don't see why they - or their wives - should bother when they are married.
    So no one should do any housework or cooking? I suppose they could get a maid. Or just wait until social services knock on the door.

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    اصبر aynina's Avatar
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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekoor View Post
    Due to guilt NO
    Out of dire need YES
    So guilt is a bad trait?
    يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

    O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

    Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by aynina View Post
    So guilt is a bad trait?
    If it's not your duty to maintain your bro - YES...
    Guilt over sins etc - NO...

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekoor View Post
    If it's not your duty to maintain your bro - YES...
    Guilt over sins etc - NO...
    Okay its a bit hard for me to understand, so i shouldnt feel bad when we have low income like feel like its okay?

    I wouldnt mind it at all tbh
    يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

    O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

    Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Umm Fatimah View Post
    So no one should do any housework or cooking? I suppose they could get a maid. Or just wait until social services knock on the door.
    Only the absolute minimum necessary - as I said, the question of just what was the absolute minimum necessary was usually the root of the problem. In fact, the men concerned were often very fond of - and good at - cooking. It was just cleaning up afterwards they weren't too good at. One pointed out that he cleaned all the cooking things he used - he had to before he could use them.

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Hijrah isn't compulsory especially since this is not for Islamic reason and there is no Islamic state butttttttttttttttttttttttttttt common sense says if you are struggling to survive in high cost area then move to a lower cost area assuming you can secure a job. The problem with lower cost area is that the jobs don't pay as much in lower cost area. So the same couple that moved to save money might notice they are not any better in low cost area because they are making less. Still do the calculation & see if its worth it. Make sure you secure a job for yourself before you move

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    Odan muzzybee's Avatar
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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    I don't understand what is meant by "men not doing their jobs." If the couple is perfectly capable of living on the man's income, but he still makes his wife work, then yes I would say he's not doing his job. But if the guy is working super hard and his income is still not enough, and he needs his wife to work, I would certainly hope he is not resented for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Umm Fatimah View Post
    Only if he is doing 50% of the housework/cooking/childcare. The resentment problem creeps in when the woman is also working FT but the man kicks off his socks and shoes whilst the woman is running ragged at home trying to keep on top of these things. There is no way i would work FT, pay into the house and then come home to do everything myself.
    So the situation here leads to one way or the other ,woman getting to work and somehow becomes justified cos the man is finding it hard to manage.
    Now the question is this is making a mockery of the typical muslim household ,everything becomes 50 /50 and whatever family problems or fitna that arises from it you just accept it cos,well you have already developed a what to do mindset..

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    Odan muzzybee's Avatar
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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekoor View Post
    Men cant control what they will earn, this was pre-determined.
    What we can control in what we spend.
    A smaller house/car etc will do just fine.

    Contentment is key

    There are exceptions though.
    What if you are already in a society ,where it is generally understood woman has to work to makes ends meet..should we marry in a society like that ..ie western society

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Kya View Post
    Hijrah isn't compulsory especially since this is not for Islamic reason and there is no Islamic state butttttttttttttttttttttttttttt common sense says if you are struggling to survive in high cost area then move to a lower cost area assuming you can secure a job. The problem with lower cost area is that the jobs don't pay as much in lower cost area. So the same couple that moved to save money might notice they are not any better in low cost area because they are making less. Still do the calculation & see if its worth it. Make sure you secure a job for yourself before you move
    So you are saying its ok for wife to go out and work ,potentially leading to a lot of fitna ...whereas,if he goes to middle east or asia they can easily survive with the mans income..in these areas majority married women are still housewives and man doesnt do fancy jobs either...


    So no need to migrate then ?
    You are saying take a chance with wife working is it.

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzybee View Post
    What if you are already in a society ,where it is generally understood woman has to work to makes ends meet..should we marry in a society like that ..ie western society
    Is this generally how it is? Are all Muslims in Western society (apart from highly educated ones) just "making it" financially?

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by horizon View Post
    Hijra to where?

    There is no Caliphate or Islamic State to migrate to.
    Couldnt it be to a better practising place to avoid that fitna

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by horizon View Post
    Is this generally how it is? Are all Muslims in Western society (apart from highly educated ones) just "making it" financially?
    If you think people in uk or usa or europe are realy well off then answer is no.
    In uk alone lot ofof muslims depend on benefits to an extent

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by aynina View Post
    Well imagine a brother makes 1200 euros a month and the cheapest place he can get is 500 euros (based on my city)
    I was home alone with my bro gor 1 week and i spend 100 euros on food (he eats out in the weekend so only 5 days of food and i barely eat) so 400 euros a month for food has us at 900 euros and then add the bills on top, and gas for the car to get him to work is prolly 50 a week which is 200 a month gets us at 1100 a month excl. Bills, we're already making dept and we didnt even buy anything apart from food.
    Two people spending 100euros a week for food, that's a bit much.
    -do shopping list
    - meal planning
    -have vegetarian only meal once a week.
    - shop a around
    -reduce buying ready made products etc Just some ideas

    It isn't how much we earn, but how much we spend.

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by uccello verde View Post
    Two people spending 100euros a week for food, that's a bit much.
    -do shopping list
    - meal planning
    -have vegetarian only meal once a week.
    - shop a around
    -reduce buying ready made products etc Just some ideas

    It isn't how much we earn, but how much we spend.
    Yea well i didnt think of what i bought because i didnt have to either so if i knew i dont have a lot of money i would definately buy smarter...

    Though if i would tell my bro about vegetarian meals he would NOT BE HAPPY loll
    يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

    O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

    Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by aynina View Post
    Yea well i didnt think of what i bought because i didnt have to either so if i knew i dont have a lot of money i would definately buy smarter...

    Though if i would tell my bro about vegetarian meals he would NOT BE HAPPY loll
    lol, what is it guys with meat

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by uccello verde View Post
    lol, what is it guys with meat
    Haha idk sis
    يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

    O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

    Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Umm Fatimah View Post
    I really don't think that it is about men not doing their job properly either. Some men maybe do not have a high educational background and they are on the minimum wage. He might work 60 hours a week, so is not entitled to any help but it is still not enough to pay rent and to live a basic life. By applying this logic this means that only rich men can/should get married. It is very common in muslim countries for men to seek a working wife as even 'good' jobs are not enough to sustain families in an increasingly expensive society.

    My advice from my own experience: utilize every opportunity you have in the West to build up your academic/vocational profile to enable you to have choice about moving if you wish.
    I don't think anyone was saying, that only rich/wealthy brothers can get married. I have seen plenty poor guys getting married, and their wives are home. Alhamdulillah. Women getting work, open door to other problems.
    I would ask, is it worth for few extra pounds to jeopardise your marriage and deen.

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    1of the volatile beings myeverything's Avatar
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    Re: In a society if both spouses have to work ....to survive.is hijrah compulsory

    Quote Originally Posted by Umm Fatimah View Post
    Only if he is doing 50% of the housework/cooking/childcare. The resentment problem creeps in when the woman is also working FT but the man kicks off his socks and shoes whilst the woman is running ragged at home trying to keep on top of these things. There is no way i would work FT, pay into the house and then come home to do everything myself.
    This

    Quote Originally Posted by Sceptic View Post
    That's often a matter of personality or taste. I can remember years ago giving advice to couples where the woman made just your complaint. The men pointed out that they'd done just as much - or as little, if you prefer - housework when they'd lived on his own, so why should they bother now?
    What do taste and personality have to do here ?

    If they don't want to bother with housework now because they are married.

    Why a woman would bother working while she has a husband who should provide for her and pay all ?

    You can't have your cake and eat it ... BTW women are human too. It's like they want their full rights and rights of their wives too^^

    such men shouldn't ask their wives to work and help with life expenses .. they can get well with housewives ( women work inside and men outside ) fair enough ..
    How merciful Allah on me by giving me respite,and I persist in my sins and Allah shields me

 

 

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