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  1. #1
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    Why the hate for madhkhalis?

    Why is there is so much hate for madhkhalis? Somebody correct me if I am wrong but the key difference between madhkhalis and salafis is that madhkalis believe in unwavering support of the head of state even though he may be a transgressor. But do they not derive this from the fiqh of Imam Ahmed? I don't remember where I read it since it was a long time ago but didn't imam ahmed specifically mention that rebelling against a transgressing ruler is haram since it leads to fitna?

  2. #41
    Odan DreamsofHope's Avatar
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    Re: Why the hate for madhkhalis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harun1004 View Post
    King Salman is the king of one country, what about the Salafis in Kuwait, UAE, Yemen, Egypt, Chechnya, Somalia, etc. Is he their Sultan too? This is why the claims that we believe that King Salman or Abdullah are/were amir ul mumineen made by non-Salafis about us doesn't have legs and is a myth. Nobody outside KSA has bay'ah to the King of Saudi Arabia, this is not Sufism or a tariqah where you give allegiance to some guy half way around the world through his local pawns. In regards to Saudi being called the land of tawheed, this is referring to the scholars and the fact that you can go there and study the Athari creed with minimum interference from Asharis, Maturidis, Sufis, Shia etc. The state government has institutions that allow you to study and propagate the Athari creed whereas in other places and institutions brothers have to struggle with defending the creed against the Ash'aris who hate the Athari creed because they know that the Atharis are the original and older than both the Maturidis/Asharis. Imam Ahmad rh was born in 164 AH, Abu Mansur Al-Maturidi was born in 239 and was 2 years old when Imam Ahmad died in 241, and Abu Hasan Al-Ashari wasn't even alive in Imam Ahmad's time because he was born in 260 AH. On top of that he was with the Mutazilah until he was 40 years old so Ash'aris really didn't exist until after 300 AH.

    I've been practicing Islam since 2008, I'm yet to find an Ash'ari/Maturidi that admits that they are a later group from the mutakalimeen not even as old as us. Salafi is nothing more than the common more popular phrase/synonym for Athari (textualists) and in some places it will be called Ahlul Hadith, which was the term for the scholars who opposed the Mutazilah and Jahmiyah who are the forerunners of Asharis/Maturidis. You can go to KSA and not have to deal with institutions that are propagating of philosophy/kalaam and taqlid in itiqaad. As for Salman, he is the sultan of one country like all of the other rulers and he is the amir of people in KSA but what power does he have beyond that? If someone wanted to gain funding to establish dawatul salafiyyah in his own country, he could bypass the Saudis and go to people in UAE, Kuwait, etc and gain the same support. For example, Al-Faisal Foundation came to my city and invested and they are Salafiyoon from Qatar and there are numerous Salafi charity foundations outside KSA.
    No brother I was not refering to Salafi creed nor salafis but just Madkhalis that is a complete different thing. The Madkhalis even these who are not from Saudi Arabia have given Bay'ah to King Salman without him even knowing it.

    There is traditional Salafi - Proper Muslim

    Then there is Madkhali - complete different thing

  3. #42
    Abu-Tawheed Saif-Uddin's Avatar
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    Re: Why the hate for madhkhalis?

    Quote Originally Posted by european muslim View Post
    Christian belief nonsense?
    Allah states it in the quran.
    Here is one verse out of multiple.


    وَأَسِرُّوا قَوْلَكُمْ أَوِ اجْهَرُوا بِهِ ۖ إِنَّهُ عَلِيمٌ بِذَاتِ الصُّدُورِ

    AND [know, O men, that] whether you keep your beliefs secret or state them openly, He has full knowledge indeed of all that is in [your] hearts.

    Off course there are hypocrites and you can recognize them by their signs.
    But by throwing around the word coconut when you actually mean hypocrite, dont you think it is a grave accusation to throw so lightly ?
    Yes Christian belief (which is Hypocritical anyway) the "Only God can judge" argument when an Evil is pointed out

    However in Islam Allah we judge by the apparent,

    Abdullah ibn Utbah reported: I heard Umar ibn Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, say, “Verily, in the time of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, the people would be judged by revelation, but the revelation has ended. Now we judge you according to your outward deeds. Whoever shows us good, we will trust him and favor him and it is not for us to judge his inner secrets, for Allah will hold him accountable for those. Whoever shows us evil, then we will not trust him or believe in him even if he claims his intention is good.”

    (Sahih Bukhari 2498)

    Nobody is required to open up anyone's heart to judge if they are Evil or not,, we judge people by the apparent Evil or Good they do,

    Coconuts unfortunately do quite a lot of hypocritical Evil
    Last edited by Saif-Uddin; 15-09-17 at 06:56 PM.
    http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

    "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

    – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

  4. #43
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    Re: Why the hate for madhkhalis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Identical View Post
    Why is there is so much hate for madhkhalis? Somebody correct me if I am wrong but the key difference between madhkhalis and salafis is that madhkalis believe in unwavering support of the head of state even though he may be a transgressor. But do they not derive this from the fiqh of Imam Ahmed? I don't remember where I read it since it was a long time ago but didn't imam ahmed specifically mention that rebelling against a transgressing ruler is haram since it leads to fitna?
    There are differences between a Muslim oppressive ruler who judge by Allah's law and establish deen's law but he commits unjust acts...

    And a murtad ruler who establish kufr laws and force ppl to ask judgement from those laws..

    If u want to know why we hate madhkalis...the answer is they didn't realize the differences between the two..

    they are suporting those murtad rulers

    not only that!
    they call us khawarej when we make takfeer on those rulers!

    not only that!
    if anyone of the scholars disagreed with them about one of those issues they call them khariji!

    That's why when I see a madkhali I don't even want to give salam to him but I can't....
    because I know if he knows that I don't believe his beliefs he would cooperate with the police against me as he believes cooperation with police against khawarej is wajeb!
    Last edited by Abu-Sufyaan; Yesterday at 04:26 AM.

  5. #44
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    Re: Why the hate for madhkhalis?

    Quote Originally Posted by abufulaans View Post
    Number of reasons
    1) They love and support taghoot rulers
    2) They consider even a small word as khurooj and will report you to get you arrested
    3) They spend all day refuting and are very stubborn
    4) They hate everyone else and are thus hated
    5) Practically they are soft against the kuffar and harsh against the rulers
    Masha'Allah

    I like the way you sort the reasons ..

  6. #45
    An-Najdi abufulaans's Avatar
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    Re: Why the hate for madhkhalis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu-Sufyaan View Post
    Masha'Allah

    I like the way you sort the reasons ..
    Nice and simple
    ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

  7. #46
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    Re: Why the hate for madhkhalis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harun1004 View Post
    Someone who is Madkhali refers to someone who follows Rabee Al-Madkhali in his jarh wa tadeel and criticisms of others, and whoever Rabee criticizes he/she criticizes likewise. And he/she will avoid the lectures of any shaykh that is/was criticized. The difference between mainstream Salafiyyah and Madkhaliyyah is and will always be around jarh wa tadeel as mainstream Salafis don't abandon shayukh based on Rabee Al-Madkhali. For instance, Rabee criticized Shaykh Yahya Al-Hajoori and Salim At-Taweel. One of my friends studied with Yahya Al-Hajoori in Yemen and neither him or I abandoned Yahya Al-Hajoori on behalf of Rabee because we stuck to Salafiyyah. Mainstream Salafis leave Rabee's criticisms to Rabee and whatever personal issues occur between him and fulan scholar, we don't get involved with and leave it alone. We agree though with them on addressing the shubuhat of groups like the Shias, Sufis etc.

    When it comes to testing people by Shaykh Rabee, this is not even a concept in Salafiyyah more so in the Madkhali community. Quite frankly, I've never read a single book from Shaykh Rabee though I know who he is and could have access to his works anytime I want. I know that he authored a book on the reality of the Rafidah which I may at some point check out since the Rafidah are trying to become stronger in my local area and we are gearing up to refute them other than that I've never sought his works like that while having full knowledge of his existence. I've known about Abu Khadeejah since at least 2009 (I took sahadah in 2008) and was told to stay away from him. I'll agree with Rabee or Abu Khadeejah on the Rafidah and extreme Sufis, but in terms of his criticisms of other Salafis, I have no need for it. I like who I like and listen to who I listen to. They do have a point though when it comes to testing people by certain people, but those people who are solid "tests" upon the people would be the dead scholars like Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab, Ibn Taymiyyah, Al-Hasan ibn Ali Babarhari, Abu Farraj ibn Al-Jawzi, Ibn Hazm, even Imam Ahmad (whom I've heard deviants deny his fiqh ability). I've yet to meet a single person who hated Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab rh except that he heard myths about him or that he himself was upon some deviation (mostly Sufi) because if you weren't involved in grave worship, Saint worship, superstition, bid'ah etc his books wouldn't bother you much. So when I first became Muslim, the subject matter of Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab rh or Ibn Taymiyyah etc didn't bother me because I wasn't involved in much of the things they were criticizing anyway so I had no emotions about it.

    But you see a person going into rage when shirk and bid'ah is brought up, then he may be involved or he befriends those who are involved in that type of stuff. If not, the subject of bid'ah and shirk wouldn't have bothered them. If they don't do bid'ah, then debating with them should be the same like debating the trinity against a Jehovah Witness(a Christian sect we have in the US who denies trinity). you'll find that trashing the trinity to a Jehovah Witness wont bother them because they don't believe in the trinity in the first place. Why cant the Sufis have this same reaction to the mention of shirk and bid'ah? Some of these Sufis will go to war with you over bid'ah then turn around and say they don't do bid'ah, which is a total oxymoron. Why are you mad/emotional over the criticism of something you supposedly aren't involved in?

    However, when it comes to testing people by living scholars like Rabee, I leave it alone. The lives of the dead are already known and recorded, a living scholar can fall into bid'ah any day.

    In terms of khurooj, khurooj is allowed when the means/ability are there and the maslaha is that the removal of the ruler causes less harm than not removing the ruler and this is the real Salafi position. You cannot be Murji'ah and Salafi at the same time, Salafis are between Murji'ah and Khawarij, one side does nothing and the other side does too much.

    Someone who is Salafi refers to someone who is a textualist Sunni who seeks that his ibadah and aqeedah have authentic textual proofs and evidences from the Quran, Sunnah, and Athar. So he affirms what is to be affirmed and negates what ever goes against the texts. Imam Abdur Rahman Al-Awza'i rh said, "Have patience upon the Sunnah and stop where the people stopped. Speak in which they spoke and hold back from what they held back. And tread upon the path of your Salafus Salih for whatever sufficed them will suffice you." This encapsulates it. What the other people are saying about the dawatul salafiyyah, leave them to their opinion because for most of them you can tell it is personal beef. We come with text they come with emotion.
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...ikhs(Reminder)

 

 

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