Hello & Welcome to our community. Is this your first visit? Register
Ads by Muslim Ad Network


+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. #1
    WolfandBear123
    Guests

    Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Racism has always bugged me for as long as I can remeber and more recently finding out that the two sheiks I held dear most in ibn Taymiyah and Albani support the belief that Arabs are superior...It is the last straw.

    When people are racist its fine, cause hey its imperfect creations. But now that I have learned that your geographical location birthplace and ethnic background can make you superior to others I have given up.

    It is hypocracy at its best. Muslims always talk about how can men be responsible for the sins of the past when trying to counter christianity...

    How can Arabs today be any superior when many of them are incompetent, kabsa eating lazy people. Not to mention they are in an absoulte humiliation.


    let these sink in, I as a Minority have been less racially judged in a non-muslim environment. Before Islam, I was with women off different ethnicities and i even met their families.

    Fact is, racism in islam is so subtle yet to engrained. While Non muslims have a lot of extreme racist, the numbers of non-racist individuals fare great in number.

    Tldr?

    - Many Muslims are racist
    - Scholars support Ethnic superiority.

  2. #2
    Odan .khayriyyah.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    1,788
    Mentioned
    69 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1443 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    139

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Why leave Islam over this? Are you willing to go to hell because you do not like the views of the ulama and some Muslims are racist?

  3. #3
    On A Hired Plane of Logic LailaTheMuslim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    12,843
    Mentioned
    267 Post(s)
    Quoted
    2677 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    451

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    I don't agree that Islam is racist. It says in the Qur'an :

    O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.

    Surah 49 (al-hujurat) verse 13.

    The Qur'an tells us that Allah created us through male and female and made into nations and tribes, that we know one another. Yet, the most noble are the most righteous.

    Don't go into factitious debates about race when we know that only good deeds and not lineage will get you in Paradise.

    For example, although the Quraish were blessed with the Nabi being from their tribe, you had Quraish rejectors like Abu Lahab, and non-Arabs who accepted Islam like Salman the Persian (ra).

    The former is cursed to this day and the latter was blessed by Allah and is still mentioned favourably by all Muslims.

    Just focus on yourself and worship Allah - the one who created YOU!
    وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

    And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


    أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

    Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


    Please take a look at my travel booking website : https://destinationfindertravel.com/

    Please take a look at my blog : http://thinkingmuslima.blogspot.co.uk/

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    118
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    75 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    I don't agree that Islam is racist. It says in the Qur'an :

    O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.

    Surah 49 (al-hujurat) verse 13.

    The Qur'an tells us that Allah created us through male and female and made into nations and tribes, that we know one another. Yet, the most noble are the most righteous.

    Don't go into factitious debates about race when we know that only good deeds and not lineage will get you in Paradise.

    For example, although the Quraish were blessed with the Nabi being from their tribe, you had Quraish rejectors like Abu Lahab, and non-Arabs who accepted Islam like Salman the Persian (ra).

    The former is cursed to this day and the latter was blessed by Allah and is still mentioned favourably by all Muslims.

    Just focus on yourself and worship Allah - the one who created YOU!
    Good point, I will like to add that the concept of race is a white men's invention. There is no such thing as "black" people and "white" people. However, the different colors of people is a sign from the signs of Allah:

    1) And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colors. Indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge.(Surah 30:22).

    You should judge Islam by the Quran and the sunnah, not by the opinions of Albani or Ibn Taymiyyah.

    Arabs are not superior to other groups, in fact, Allah criticizes the bedouins from among the Arabs:

    2) The bedouins are stronger in disbelief and hypocrisy and more likely not to know the limits of what [laws] Allah has revealed to His Messenger. And Allah is Knowing and Wise.(Surah 9:97)
    Last edited by Calender121438; 16-09-17 at 12:10 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    564
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Quoted
    341 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    7

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by WolfandBear123 View Post
    let these sink in, I as a Minority have been less racially judged in a non-muslim environment.
    Racism occurs in both muslim and non-muslim environments. However, it is something that you find almost exclusively in the lower classes, especially among the godless factory workers, who try to over-compensate their natural and innate inferiority by being racist. The hoi polloi are scum. Just get over it.

  6. #6
    Odan Abu julaybeeb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Gender
    Girl Unspecified
    Posts
    1,674
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Quoted
    909 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    56

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    I dont know if they actually said this but either way it doesnt matter as the prophet theres no difference between arab non arab
    Skin color aswell

  7. #7
    The Answerer
    Guests

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Complain about racism,

    Quote Originally Posted by WolfandBear123 View Post
    How can Arabs today be any superior when many of them are incompetent, kabsa eating lazy people. Not to mention they are in an absoulte humiliation.
    And then say something wildly racist?

  8. #8
    Odan ALAS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    2,084
    Mentioned
    118 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1140 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    32

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by WolfandBear123 View Post
    Racism has always bugged me for as long as I can remeber and more recently finding out that the two sheiks I held dear most in ibn Taymiyah and Albani support the belief that Arabs are superior...It is the last straw.
    If your Islam is to worship certain scholars as if whatever they say is correct even though it may be contrary to Quran and other authentic Sunnah, it is better that you leave such an Islam this is itself some sort of shirk prohibited in Quran, this is not Islam.
    Note: I am a shia.

  9. #9
    striving to be sincere Abu Kamel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    5,626
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1580 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    182

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by WolfandBear123 View Post
    - Many Muslims are racists
    - Scholars support Ethnic superiority.
    You anonymously accuse two righteous and pious scholars of hypocrisy and deficiency in character, and then say you want to leave Islam.

    And you add at the bottom, perhaps by mistake, your, talking points.

    I don't believe you. Rather, I suspect you are a liar, a false propagandist seeking to attack Islam, especially " salafi dawah" as part of the kufar's imperial domination over the MUSLIM world.

    You don't show any sign of being a Muslim.

    Where have these scholars shown "racism"? Where is the evidence?
    Where is the evidence against all Muslims? And wh are t circumstances surrounding Muslim societies?

    Rather, your post on this forum appears to be that of a disbelieving troll.

    Both of the pious shuyukh are free of your slanderous lies.
    Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
    " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    118
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    75 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Kamel View Post
    You anonymously accuse two righteous and pious scholars of hypocrisy and deficiency in character, and then say you want to leave Islam.

    And you add at the bottom, perhaps by mistake, your, talking points.

    I don't believe you. Rather, I suspect you are a liar, a false propagandist seeking to attack Islam, especially " salafi dawah" as part of the kufar's imperial domination over the MUSLIM world.

    You don't show any sign of being a Muslim.

    Where have these scholars shown "racism"? Where is the evidence?
    Where is the evidence against all Muslims? And wh are t circumstances surrounding Muslim societies?

    Rather, your post on this forum appears to be that of a disbelieving troll.

    Both of the pious shuyukh are free of your slanderous lies.
    I do not know about Sheikh Albani(may Allah have mercy on him) but Ibn Taymiyyah did say that. I knew it before he posted this thread.

  11. #11
    striving to be sincere Abu Kamel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    5,626
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1580 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    182

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by Calender121438 View Post
    I do not know about Sheikh Albani(may Allah have mercy on him) but Ibn Taymiyyah did say that. I knew it before he posted this thread.
    You know he was a racist?
    What proof do you have to slander him with racism?

    It should be mentioned in the actual context of a book, a discussion, with a reality.

    BTW. The Troll OP appeared to be using American ideological context to present his/her slanderous accusation. That is to say, "racism" in America and in the modern context refers to 19th century Occult based theories of 3 races, and that there are different human races, and that "white" Caucasian race is superior and more evolved than all other races.

    So where does Ibn Taymiyah (rh) claim these?

    And are you a sufi?
    Last edited by Abu Kamel; 18-09-17 at 11:35 AM.
    Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
    " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    118
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    75 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Kamel View Post
    You know he was a racist?
    What proof do you have to slander him with racism?

    It should be mentioned in the actual context of a book, a discussion, with a reality.

    BTW. The Troll OP appeared to be using American ideological context to present his/her slanderous accusation. That is to say, "racism" in America and in the modern context refers to 19th century Occult based theories of 3 races, and that there are different human races, and that "white" Caucasian race is superior and more evolved than all other races.

    So where does Ibn Taymiyah (rh) claim these?

    And are you a sufi?
    You do not have to be a "sufi" to have a problem with Ibn Taymiyah. I am a "sunni" but I do avoid the teachings of Ibn Taymiyah. My reasons for that is not only because of his views on the superiority of the Arabs. That view of his is well known, I first found it on Islamqa but they took it down now.

  13. #13

    Account Disabled

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Gender
    Girl Unspecified
    Posts
    709
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Quoted
    447 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Kamel View Post
    You anonymously accuse two righteous and pious scholars of hypocrisy and deficiency in character, and then say you want to leave Islam.

    And you add at the bottom, perhaps by mistake, your, talking points.

    I don't believe you. Rather, I suspect you are a liar, a false propagandist seeking to attack Islam, especially " salafi dawah" as part of the kufar's imperial domination over the MUSLIM world.

    You don't show any sign of being a Muslim.

    Where have these scholars shown "racism"? Where is the evidence?
    Where is the evidence against all Muslims? And wh are t circumstances surrounding Muslim societies?

    Rather, your post on this forum appears to be that of a disbelieving troll.

    Both of the pious shuyukh are free of your slanderous lies.
    Straw Man argument there. Nowhere did the OP accuse the scholars of hypocrisy or deficiency in character, but you assumed it and used that as the basis to call the OP a:

    liar, a false propagandist seeking to attack Islam,
    and:

    You don't show any sign of being a Muslim.
    and:

    Rather, your post on this forum appears to be that of a disbelieving troll.

  14. #14
    Odan .khayriyyah.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    1,788
    Mentioned
    69 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1443 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    139

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by Calender121438 View Post
    You do not have to be a "sufi" to have a problem with Ibn Taymiyah. I am a "sunni" but I do avoid the teachings of Ibn Taymiyah. My reasons for that is not only because of his views on the superiority of the Arabs. That view of his is well known, I first found it on Islamqa but they took it down now.
    No scholar is free from mistakes.

  15. #15
    Slave of AIIah dsr478's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    1,266
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Quoted
    788 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    17

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by WolfandBear123 View Post
    Racism has always bugged me for as long as I can remeber and more recently finding out that the two sheiks I held dear most in ibn Taymiyah and Albani support the belief that Arabs are superior...It is the last straw.

    When people are racist its fine, cause hey its imperfect creations. But now that I have learned that your geographical location birthplace and ethnic background can make you superior to others I have given up.

    It is hypocracy at its best. Muslims always talk about how can men be responsible for the sins of the past when trying to counter christianity...

    How can Arabs today be any superior when many of them are incompetent, kabsa eating lazy people. Not to mention they are in an absoulte humiliation.


    let these sink in, I as a Minority have been less racially judged in a non-muslim environment. Before Islam, I was with women off different ethnicities and i even met their families.

    Fact is, racism in islam is so subtle yet to engrained. While Non muslims have a lot of extreme racist, the numbers of non-racist individuals fare great in number.

    Tldr?

    - Many Muslims are racist
    - Scholars support Ethnic superiority.
    Islam says the non Arab is not superior to the Arab, except in piety.

    Way back in the day, I wouldn't really have a problem with saying Arabs were superior. Why? Because they were the beacons of Islam for a long time, they were generally the more pious ones and were the ones Allah chose to spread Islam. They had the best scholars, and preached unity under a Caliphate for a long time.

    However, these days, Arabs are clearly not superior. Many of them are fat, selfish, listen to music, dance, engage in riba, etc. They are no better than anyone else (they are in fact arguably worse).

    As for this whole Arab superiority thing, I've lived among Arabs. I've known and continue to know Arabs. Do some of them have a sense of superiority over others? Yes, but it's nowhere near as bad as people say. Other communities among Muslims have arguably even worse forms of racism.

    However, this isn't Islam. Islam clearly states that only piety makes you superior to someone else, your blood won't save you from Allah's punishment. One of the Sahabah known as Bilal (May Allah Be Pleased With Him) was a black man, Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) said to accept black people as Caliph's, even if they seize the position by force. If Islam was so racist, why not just leave Bilal (May Allah Be Pleased With Him) to be a kafir and not allow dark skinned people to become the Caliph?

    Islam thoroughly denounces shrines, yet we know for a fact many disobey this rule today. Does that mean Islam is a religion of shrine worshipping? Of course not!

    Calm down, racism isn't Islamic and only exists among the non practising Muslim community, I've never met a racist yet pious Muslim in my life. Even the racist non practising Muslims aren't that bad in terms of their discrimination, stop crying.
    Last edited by dsr478; 18-09-17 at 05:08 PM.

  16. #16
    Forgive me please patient believer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    7,887
    Mentioned
    346 Post(s)
    Quoted
    2728 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    488

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by WolfandBear123 View Post
    Racism has always bugged me for as long as I can remeber and more recently finding out that the two sheiks I held dear most in ibn Taymiyah and Albani support the belief that Arabs are superior...It is the last straw.

    When people are racist its fine, cause hey its imperfect creations. But now that I have learned that your geographical location birthplace and ethnic background can make you superior to others I have given up.

    It is hypocracy at its best. Muslims always talk about how can men be responsible for the sins of the past when trying to counter christianity...

    How can Arabs today be any superior when many of them are incompetent, kabsa eating lazy people. Not to mention they are in an absoulte humiliation.


    let these sink in, I as a Minority have been less racially judged in a non-muslim environment. Before Islam, I was with women off different ethnicities and i even met their families.

    Fact is, racism in islam is so subtle yet to engrained. While Non muslims have a lot of extreme racist, the numbers of non-racist individuals fare great in number.

    Tldr?

    - Many Muslims are racist
    - Scholars support Ethnic superiority.
    As far as I am aware , the only reasons why Arabs are said to be superior is because they speak the language of the Quran.
    In the Quran there are multiple verses which say no one is better than anyone except in piety .So if this is true is the Quran wrong then?
    What eaxctly did they say ?
    Ya Allah,
    Make me a stronger person today. Make me a better person out of all these. It is no longer bearable for me for my heart is aching and You are the only One who knows how I feel. Nothing is making sense to myself and for anyone else for that matter especially to the one person I wish to understand me better than anybody else.
    "Don't use the sharpness of your tongue on the mother who taught you how to speak

  17. #17
    Forgive me please patient believer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    7,887
    Mentioned
    346 Post(s)
    Quoted
    2728 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    488

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Kamel View Post
    You anonymously accuse two righteous and pious scholars of hypocrisy and deficiency in character, and then say you want to leave Islam.

    And you add at the bottom, perhaps by mistake, your, talking points.

    I don't believe you. Rather, I suspect you are a liar, a false propagandist seeking to attack Islam, especially " salafi dawah" as part of the kufar's imperial domination over the MUSLIM world.

    You don't show any sign of being a Muslim.

    Where have these scholars shown "racism"? Where is the evidence?
    Where is the evidence against all Muslims? And wh are t circumstances surrounding Muslim societies?

    Rather, your post on this forum appears to be that of a disbelieving troll.

    Both of the pious shuyukh are free of your slanderous lies.
    Relax brother , believe it or not some people do have doubts and some people are not as knowledgeable as you or others. You don't have any evidence to accuse of being a troll so , take it easy.
    Ya Allah,
    Make me a stronger person today. Make me a better person out of all these. It is no longer bearable for me for my heart is aching and You are the only One who knows how I feel. Nothing is making sense to myself and for anyone else for that matter especially to the one person I wish to understand me better than anybody else.
    "Don't use the sharpness of your tongue on the mother who taught you how to speak

  18. #18
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    1

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Unbelievable. is this your response to someone in a quandary whether it be real or perceived. It has been quoted that Ibn Taymiyyah said this. It is true that many Arabs are colourist and/or racist along with having other actions that even you yourself may find unsettling. In actual fact the Arab women in my family are not premitted to marry non- Arabs however this is less to do with race and more to do with suitable matches. That been said there is a purity in Islam and one would hope that was the thing that attracted you to the deen and nothing else.

  19. #19
    striving to be sincere Abu Kamel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    5,626
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1580 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    182

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by fatooti View Post
    Unbelievable. is this your response to someone in a quandary whether it be real or perceived. It has been quoted that Ibn Taymiyyah said this. It is true that many Arabs are colourist and/or racist along with having other actions that even you yourself may find unsettling. In actual fact the Arab women in my family are not premitted to marry non- Arabs however this is less to do with race and more to do with suitable matches. That been said there is a purity in Islam and one would hope that was the thing that attracted you to the deen and nothing else.
    Believe it or not.

    The Prophet (ﷺ) said: Judges are of three types, one of whom will go to Paradise and two to Hell. The one who will go to Paradise is a man who knows what is right and gives judgment accordingly; but a man who knows what is right and acts tyrannically in his judgment will go to Hell; and a man who gives judgment for people when he is ignorant will go to Hell.
    [sahih Abu Dawud]

    The OP exposed his bigotry by judging Arabs and these pious scholars in ignorance.

    He showed he favored kufr ideas and kufar people or Islam and Muslims, especially Arab Muslims.

    Shaykh Ibn Taymiyah's words were discussed in depth here:

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...-sermon/page2&

    The context of the texts of the Holy Quran and the Sunnah are of the measure of the superiority of he individual in piety, not any other factor. Thus, the notion of racialism- that an individual is superior to another solely because of his tribe, or skin color, or lineage, is not from Islam And is repugnant in Islam.

    The context of the OP was he applied kafir ideology by which he judges. Kafir ideology of racialism is tied to the 18th and 19th century ce man made ideology of race such that "Aryaniism" and Caucasian or Indo Asian races are the most evolved and highest forms. And the lowest form closest to animals are Negroid and Jews. This evil ideology defined the colonial era and justified atrocities throughout the world by European imperial powers.

    None of this is related to what Ibn Taymiyah was addressing.

    And the real context of the OP appears to be to falsely connect Pious scholars who are favored by Salafi Dawah to atrocities committed by Western powers who corrupted the earth today in order to condemn and denigrate the Dawah to Islam and the Salaf was salih.
    Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
    " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

  20. #20
    Combating Coconuts in UF
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    2,054
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Quoted
    937 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    61

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Kamel View Post
    Believe it or not.

    The Prophet (ﷺ) said: Judges are of three types, one of whom will go to Paradise and two to Hell. The one who will go to Paradise is a man who knows what is right and gives judgment accordingly; but a man who knows what is right and acts tyrannically in his judgment will go to Hell; and a man who gives judgment for people when he is ignorant will go to Hell.
    [sahih Abu Dawud]

    The OP exposed his bigotry by judging Arabs and these pious scholars in ignorance.

    He showed he favored kufr ideas and kufar people or Islam and Muslims, especially Arab Muslims.

    Shaykh Ibn Taymiyah's words were discussed in depth here:

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...-sermon/page2&

    The context of the texts of the Holy Quran and the Sunnah are of the measure of the superiority of he individual in piety, not any other factor. Thus, the notion of racialism- that an individual is superior to another solely because of his tribe, or skin color, or lineage, is not from Islam And is repugnant in Islam.

    The context of the OP was he applied kafir ideology by which he judges. Kafir ideology of racialism is tied to the 18th and 19th century ce man made ideology of race such that "Aryaniism" and Caucasian or Indo Asian races are the most evolved and highest forms. And the lowest form closest to animals are Negroid and Jews. This evil ideology defined the colonial era and justified atrocities throughout the world by European imperial powers.

    None of this is related to what Ibn Taymiyah was addressing.

    And the real context of the OP appears to be to falsely connect Pious scholars who are favored by Salafi Dawah to atrocities committed by Western powers who corrupted the earth today in order to condemn and denigrate the Dawah to Islam and the Salaf was salih.
    Settle down ya ahki, I don't think the OP is as smart as you claim

    He's probably just a minority that goes through a lot of discrimination within the Islamic community.

    You probably have never been racially profiled, judged etc to understand so I can understand your virtuous and genuine intention.

    But once you realize that minorities do get racially profiled and disadvantaged, you might start to understand why the OP was as confused as he was/is.

    Hopefully he's been able to fix himself.
    Stop being apologetic to Kuffars!

    If I don't engage with you or reply to any of your question, it's likely because I find you racist and a total waste of time.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    234
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Quoted
    84 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by WolfandBear123 View Post
    Racism has always bugged me for as long as I can remeber and more recently finding out that the two sheiks I held dear most in ibn Taymiyah and Albani support the belief that Arabs are superior...It is the last straw.

    When people are racist its fine, cause hey its imperfect creations. But now that I have learned that your geographical location birthplace and ethnic background can make you superior to others I have given up.

    It is hypocracy at its best. Muslims always talk about how can men be responsible for the sins of the past when trying to counter christianity...

    How can Arabs today be any superior when many of them are incompetent, kabsa eating lazy people. Not to mention they are in an absoulte humiliation.


    let these sink in, I as a Minority have been less racially judged in a non-muslim environment. Before Islam, I was with women off different ethnicities and i even met their families.

    Fact is, racism in islam is so subtle yet to engrained. While Non muslims have a lot of extreme racist, the numbers of non-racist individuals fare great in number.

    Tldr?

    - Many Muslims are racist
    - Scholars support Ethnic superiority.
    superiority that is mentioned is not how you think it is, you think its like how kkk view their superiority over black people,
    the two types are completely different, the arabs are honored because their tongue is arabic which the quran was revealedin thus chosen by Allah, and the messenger s.a.w. was arab chosen by Allah, hadith also mention that the best of the arabs are quraish and the best of quraish is banu hashim and the prophet s.a.w. is the best of banu hashim will you accuse the messenger s.a.w. and islam of tribalism?? if someone said non arabs are animals or smthing like that then its racist, but saying that a certain people are better because they have a natural advantage over others in deen matters is not racist, you have been afflicted with the ideas of the kufaar,
    The arabs have a degree over other muslims. but if the arab fails in the deen he is infact worse than the non arab who sin is the same.

  22. #22
    Abu-Tawheed Saif-Uddin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    34,025
    Mentioned
    194 Post(s)
    Quoted
    5057 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    909

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by WolfandBear123 View Post
    Racism has always bugged me for as long as I can remeber and more recently finding out that the two sheiks I held dear most in ibn Taymiyah and Albani support the belief that Arabs are superior...It is the last straw.

    When people are racist its fine, cause hey its imperfect creations. But now that I have learned that your geographical location birthplace and ethnic background can make you superior to others I have given up.

    It is hypocracy at its best. Muslims always talk about how can men be responsible for the sins of the past when trying to counter christianity...

    How can Arabs today be any superior when many of them are incompetent, kabsa eating lazy people. Not to mention they are in an absoulte humiliation.


    let these sink in, I as a Minority have been less racially judged in a non-muslim environment. Before Islam, I was with women off different ethnicities and i even met their families.

    Fact is, racism in islam is so subtle yet to engrained. While Non muslims have a lot of extreme racist, the numbers of non-racist individuals fare great in number.

    Tldr?

    - Many Muslims are racist
    - Scholars support Ethnic superiority.
    This is the most Absurd reason to leave Islam,

    You know Islam condemns Racism, but your leaving Islam because of Racism,

    Talk about insanity

    As for superiority, a Believer is by definition superior to a Kaafir/Mushrik, so if you leave Islam, you will only be degrading yourself.
    http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

    "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

    – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    234
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Quoted
    84 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
    This is the most Absurd reason to leave Islam,

    You know Islam condemns Racism, but your leaving Islam because of Racism,

    Talk about insanity

    As for superiority, a Believer is by definition superior to a Kaafir/Mushrik, so if you leave Islam, you will only be degrading yourself.
    superb point, he only lowers himself, also he should know he can be superior to maanny arabs if he stuck to the haqq

  24. #24
    Abu-Tawheed Saif-Uddin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    34,025
    Mentioned
    194 Post(s)
    Quoted
    5057 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    909

    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Quote Originally Posted by Dontknowname View Post
    superb point, he only lowers himself, also he should know he can be superior to maanny arabs if he stuck to the haqq
    Akhi this all boils down to why the op accepted Islam in the first place,

    If he did it because he believed it is the Haqq, then regardless of what others do, he would remain steadfast.

    If he did it to join a community, or get along with others, then you end up with Absurd reasons like the ones posted by op to leave Islam.

    http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

    "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

    – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

 

 

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT. The time now is 11:53 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2
Copyright © 2017 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.2.7 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Skin By: PurevB.com

MPADC.com Islamic Web Hosting | Muslim Ad Network | Islamic Nasheeds | Islamic Mobile App Developement Android & iPhone | Islamic Web Hosting : Muslim Designers : Labbayk Nasheeds : silk route jilbab: Hijab: : Web Islamic Newsletter: Islamic Web Hosting

Students of Arabic Forum | Hijab Shop