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  1. #1
    striving to be sincere Abu Kamel's Avatar
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    Importance of the Quraish








    Narrated Wathilah bin Al-Asqa':
    that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: "Indeed, Allah chose Kinanah from the children of Isma'il, and He chose Quraish from Kinanah, and He chose Hashim from Quraish, and He chose me from Banu Hashim." [sahih at Tirmidhi]

    Umm Hani’ bint Abi Talib who reported that the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, said: “Allah has favoured the Quraysh with seven characteristics which he has never given to anyone before them and will never give to anyone after them:
    1) The post of the Caliph (al-Khilafah) is given to one among them,
    2) the custody of the Sacred House (al-Hijabah) is assumed by someone from amongst them,
    3) giving water to the pilgrims (al-Siqayah) during Hajj is undertaken by someone amongst them,
    4) prophethood is given to someone amongst them,
    5) they were given victory over the [army of] elephants,
    6) they worshipped Allah for seven years during which none worshipped Him,
    7) and a Surah has been revealed about them in which none but them was mentioned (For the taming of Quraysh…)”. [reported in Asbabul Nuzul by al Wahidi]

    As shaykh Ibn Kathir addressed, suratul Quraish 106 was finally revealed as separate, but directly related and linked to suratal Fil 105 such that the War against the Elephants led to the uniting and securing of Quraish in Makka, as 29:67 addresses:

    Have they not seen that We made [Makkah] a safe sanctuary, while people are being taken away all around them? Then in falsehood do they believe, and in the favor of Allah they disbelieve?
    Holy Quran 106:1-4:
    For the taming [covenant of security] of[for] Qureysh.
    For their taming[security] (We cause) the caravans to set forth in winter and summer.
    So let them worship the Lord of this House
    Who hath fed them against hunger and hath made them safe from fear.
    Ibn Abbas is reported to have said:
    command Quraysh to be tamed to Allah's divine Oneness; and it is also said this means: mention My blessings to Quraysh so that they be tamed to Allah's divine Oneness.

    The Quraish were uniquely addressed by Allah AWJ not for utter destruction, like the Thamud, but for elevation among mankind. But also to be utterly judged such that among the Quraish is the best of mankind, Muhammad ibn Abdullah , and the worst of mankind, Abu Lahab who has the unique distinction of being named, through his vile kunya, to being named and openly judged by Allah AWJ as hellbound, along with his lowly wife.
    Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
    " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

  2. #41
    Its fine, take a 38mm noobz's Avatar
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    Re: Importance of the Quraish

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    So you have been reading your hero's works. Interesting.

    Care to say where exactly you read that?
    not for you , go dig it up yourself.




  3. #42
    Abu-Tawheed Saif-Uddin's Avatar
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    Re: Importance of the Quraish

    Quote Originally Posted by dsr478 View Post
    If someone won't accept a Caliph purely because he's Arab, then they can buzz off because that's haram.

    There are certain rulings that have context to them, for example, the whole wearing trousers below the ankles thing.
    Yes certain Ruling do have context and apply in certain scenarios,

    The criteria for selection of a Khalifa isn't one of them,

    It's the same criteria as it was over 1400 years ago,

    Yes thats exactly what Bidrohi did,

    He even went to the extent of insinuating that a Mutawattir Saheeh Hadith could be fabricated,

    Nationalism makes one loose the plot completely as we have observed,

    The Kufr of hadith rejectors comes in various crazy forms

    نعوذ بالله من ذلك
    Last edited by Saif-Uddin; 07-09-17 at 05:44 PM.
    http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

    "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

    – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

  4. #43
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    Re: Importance of the Quraish

    Quote Originally Posted by dsr478 View Post
    Islamically, you are obliged to follow the Caliph so long as it acts Islamically, even if the position was taken by force like with the Ummayads.

    The Qurayshi supremacists just say it's sinful for someone to become a Caliph whilst not being Qureshi (provided they know of the whole Quraysh thing), however for the average commoner they must accept the Caliph so long as he acts Islamically, even according to Qureshi supremacists.

    IMO, since nobody respects the Quraysh tribe anymore unless they are direct descendants of Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him), the picking might have to be limited even further, and they're the only lineage which Muslims would unanimously accept, even kafir Shia's.
    The Qurayshi supremacists actually don't accept non qurayshi leaders.

    Shias don't accept most sunni things.




  5. #44
    Slave of AIIah dsr478's Avatar
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    Re: Importance of the Quraish

    Quote Originally Posted by noobz View Post
    The Qurayshi supremacists actually don't accept non qurayshi leaders.

    Shias don't accept most sunni things.
    Well then they're wrong. Even islamqa (they believe in the whole Quraysh thing) says that the Muslim must accept the Caliph so long as he acts Islamically and doesn't break any major Islamic laws. They say it's only a sin on the Caliphs part, not the people's. The people must still accept his rule.

  6. #45
    Slave of AIIah dsr478's Avatar
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    Re: Importance of the Quraish

    Quote Originally Posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
    Yes certain Ruling do have context and apply in certain scenarios,

    The criteria for selection of a Khalifa isn't one of them,

    It's the same criteria as it was over 1400 years ago,

    Yes thats exactly what Bidrohi did,

    He even went to the extent of insinuating that a Mutawattir Saheeh Hadith could be fabricated,

    Nationalism makes one loose the plot completely as we have observed,

    The Kufr of hadith rejectors comes in various crazy forms

    نعوذ بالله من ذلك
    Claiming the Hadith is fabricated is dumb, you might as well toss out the other Sahih ones if you do that, which is pretty stupid, and makes you a kafir. Just because you don't personally like a ruling doesn't mean it no longer applies.

    I'd personally want a ruler to be the direct descendent of Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him), anyone else would cause dispute, as this thread clearly shows. Only the lineage of Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) would go pretty much unopposed by Muslims.

    As for the Quraysh aspect, I'm sceptical but not in denial. If it's the ruling it's the ruling, doesn't bother me (I've never wanted to be a Caliph anyway, although a Sultan wouldn't be too bad lol).

  7. #46
    Its fine, take a 38mm noobz's Avatar
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    Re: Importance of the Quraish

    Quote Originally Posted by dsr478 View Post
    Well then they're wrong. Even islamqa (they believe in the whole Quraysh thing) says that the Muslim must accept the Caliph so long as he acts Islamically and doesn't break any major Islamic laws. They say it's only a sin on the Caliphs part, not the people's. The people must still accept his rule.
    that in itself is a problem , where you're saying having a non qurayshi leader is a sin, context matters alot in Islam , thats why there are views that saw it was only a time thing when qurayshi's were looked at with high regard from other arab tribes.

    Nowadays , nobody knows what quraysh is.

    When you make it a sin to have non qurayshi leaders , you are making the claim that certain people are naturally above others by birth.

    This argument is also used by madkhalis when they tell others to obey the leader despite whatever he does.

    I also remember there was a time when scholars banned watching tv and said it was haraam to watch tv, period ... now look at these scholars have done a complete 180 , knowing how they can use media to spread Islam and how it can be a useful tool to teach people so many different things.

    So again , context , certain rules may apply back in the day because of the socio economic and political situation , but they can't be applied now.
    Last edited by noobz; 07-09-17 at 06:55 PM.




  8. #47
    Odan imran1976's Avatar
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    Re: Importance of the Quraish

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicen View Post
    @imran1976 @noobz @Bidrohi Ronoklanto @Poster Please read this.

    Quote from link in post 36

    The debate over the “Quraysh condition” for the caliphate was, as mentioned above, revived in the late Ottoman era (late nineteenth century) when Arab nationalists, with the “encouragement” of the Britishand the French, made a claim for an Arab Caliphate. The proponents of the “Arab Caliphate,” such as Egyptian intellectuals Abdur-rahman al-Kawakibi and Rashid Rida, based their objection to Ottoman rule on the claim that the Ottoman sultans had seized the caliphate from the Abbasids by force, and that Arabs had a religious and historical right to the caliphate. In particular, they claimed that the caliph
    should be a member of the Quraysh tribe, based on the Quraysh hadith. This claim in particular, and Arab nationalism in general, had a close connection with
    the international political context of the early twentieth century—i.e., with British and French colonial activities. Both Britain and France had plans to install ‘puppet’ caliphs in the Arab world to politically and ideologically control Muslims in colonial India and North Africa. The French were planning to create
    “Maghrib caliphate” by installing Sultan Yusuf of Morocco as caliph, whereas the British wanted to create an “Arab caliphate” under their own control by
    helping Sharif Hussein of Mecca declare his rule.


    Starting in 1915, as indicated by an exchange of letters with Lieutenant Colonel Sir Henry McMahon, the British High Commissioner in the Sultanate of Egypt, Hussein seized the opportunity and demanded recognition of an Arab nation that included the Hejaz and other adjacent territories as well as approval for the proclamation of an Arab Caliphate of Islam.
    (Source for this para: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussei...harif_of_Mecca)

    24
    The main aim of the colonial powers was to break the
    political and ideological power of the Ottoman sultan
    on their Muslim colonies, and ultimately to destroy
    the Ottoman caliphate, which was a real threat to their
    interests in the Muslim World. For this purpose, they
    started an anti-Ottoman campaign, which involved
    the effective propaganda for the illegitimacy of the
    Ottoman caliphate (discussed above) that also affected
    Arab nationalist intellectuals and politician
    Europeans had plans and there were potential candidates to oblige out of lust for power -- Quraishi lineage was just a tool used by both Europeans & Muslim traitors.

    When the Europeans achieved their objectives, they threw away the potential candidates like a used tissue paper -- After this, they obliged and put blessing hand on the ones, who were ready to be more loyal i.e Sauds.

    Let history be the judge, we were being told that only a Quraishi can be a caliph, thereby Usmani khilafat was destroyed. --- What followed was more disastrous, instead of having a caliph, we had ignorant Bedouins in charge, who obliged the kafirs in dividing the Muslim world.

    ibn Khaldun's Muqaddama- chapter 26 explains the quraishi condition in detail, if still some doesn't understand, what can I really say.
    "Europe died in Bosnia and was buried in Syria. Bodies of innocent children washing ashore are the
    western civilization's tombstones"


    Rajab Tayyab Erdogan

  9. #48

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    Re: Importance of the Quraish

    Quote Originally Posted by imran1976 View Post
    Europeans had plans and there were potential candidates to oblige out of lust for power -- Quraishi lineage was just a tool used by both Europeans & Muslim traitors.

    When the Europeans achieved their objectives, they threw away the potential candidates like a used tissue paper -- After this, they obliged and put blessing hand on the ones, who were ready to be more loyal i.e Sauds.

    Let history be the judge, we were being told that only a Quraishi can be a caliph, thereby Usmani khilafat was destroyed. --- What followed was more disastrous, instead of having a caliph, we had ignorant Bedouins in charge, who obliged the kafirs in dividing the Muslim world.

    ibn Khaldun's Muqaddama- chapter 26 explains the quraishi condition in detail, if still some doesn't understand, what can I really say.
    Thing is that ibn Khaldun was not a scholar, if I'm not wrong.

    However other scholars like Ayni, Al-Jurjani, Baqillani are said to have not supported the conditionality of Quraysh.

    The crux of the matter is that Abd al-Arabs like Saifuddin and other Abus will blindly support an Arab caliphate, which in reality would be a puppet of the west, against a more legitimate islamic power, using other notions such as "we hear and obey", "obey your ruler", etc. It's all too easy.

  10. #49

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    Re: Importance of the Quraish

    @Poster - let's continue the discussion over here. That thread has too much information and I don't want Abu Abdullah to use my posts as an excuse to close that thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poster View Post
    That's fine but where is the line drawn between Islamic stuff (learning Arabic for example) vs Arabic culture?
    The line is obvious, arab political rule, Arabic clothing like the red towel some shaykhs wear, using Arabic phrases in daily language, arab supremacism, arab invasion, etc.

    And even though I'm a big fan of Ottoman turks, I wouldn't support an invasion from Turkey, unless ofcourse all hopes for Islam is gone, in which I will fight in favour of muslims against secularized Bengalis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poster View Post
    Also, in what way is br Saifuddin arabised?
    Lol, I know you're smarter than to ask me that.

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    Re: Importance of the Quraish

    @Morose - "desi" countries have a lot of fault, especially secularism. But "desis" did not rebel and betray Ottomans. Infact, "desi" shaykhs/ preachers remained loyal to Ottomans till the very end and campaigned against the Arab nationalist campaign led by Sharif Hussein.

  12. #51
    Odan imran1976's Avatar
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    Re: Importance of the Quraish

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicen View Post
    @Morose - "desi" countries have a lot of fault, especially secularism. But "desis" did not rebel and betray Ottomans. Infact, "desi" shaykhs/ preachers remained loyal to Ottomans till the very end and campaigned against the Arab nationalist campaign led by Sharif Hussein.
    Good point raised, though desis were under British rule, still they supported Usmani khilafat ( let's use the word Usmani/Uthmani/Osmanli) -- The desis, consisting of present day Pakistan+Bangladesh+India, started Khilafat movement.

    This explains the love/affection Turks have for desis and vice versa ---- Isn't this amazing, though we didn't shared borders nor we were under Usmani khilafat, yet the bond was/is very strong. @ebubekir01
    "Europe died in Bosnia and was buried in Syria. Bodies of innocent children washing ashore are the
    western civilization's tombstones"


    Rajab Tayyab Erdogan

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    Re: Importance of the Quraish

    Quote Originally Posted by eesa the kiwi View Post
    If the hadith is sahih khalaas

    Those rejecting hadith due to nationalistic arrogance should remember who exactly it is whose words they are rejecting (sallaho alayhi wa sallam)

    Sometimes a person's tounge give you a taste of what's in their heart
    İ believe this hadith is sahih. Already prophet muhammad pbuh's appearance among quraish make quraish superior to other sects and nations etc. Like arabic is among others.

    At least as a turk i think so.

  14. #53
    striving to be sincere Abu Kamel's Avatar
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    Re: Importance of the Quraish

    The crux of the matter is that Abd al-Arabs like Saifuddin and other Abus will blindly support an Arab caliphate
    This sentence fragment contains enormous evil content.

    It is an act of slander against Saifuddin and "other Abus" like myself.

    It is mocking belief in Islam. Worship is for Allah alone. "Ibada" is for Allah alone. And "abdul" is only for Allah, hence the name Abdullah, Abdur Rahman, and so on. But someone who mocks says of a Muslim that he is "Abdul Arab" rather than Abdullah. It is a takfir on us, and it is a kufr of mockery. crite and slanderer says we "worship Arabs".

    9:65,66
    And if you ask them, they will surely say, "We were only conversing and playing." Say, "Is it Allah and His verses and His Messenger that you were mocking?"
    Make no excuse; you have disbelieved after your belief. If We pardon one faction of you - We will punish another faction because they were criminals

    Only the worst kufar have ever claimed I have worshiped Arabs because I became a Muslim. And those kufar were ignorant arrogant, atheists and Euro Americans who hated that I could turn from being an American Christian like them to being a Muslim. To those kufar, it was a form of betrayal from being a follower of the Taghut of the "White Man".

    And that's what Spicen shows of his character, spite, envy, mockery of Islam that he is like them.

    And this sentence fragment attempts to force a false narrative- a LIE- about "Abdul Arabs", that we will blindly follow an Arab caliphate. And he claims this even though both Saifuddin and myself and others have repeatedly called for a khilafa rashida, a rightly guided khilafa on the way of the Prophethood. We have repeatedly condemned hypocrite Arabs and criticized misguiding ulama. While these ones, Spicen and his cohort Bidrohi slander, mock belief, and lie while all the time protecting the hypocrite desis and misguiding sufi masters.

    So this Spicen has slandered, and lied, and mocked Islam in this sentence fragement.
    Hasbiullah wa n`ima wakeel.
    Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
    " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

  15. #54
    striving to be sincere Abu Kamel's Avatar
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    Re: Importance of the Quraish

    As for wisdom of the particular rule of the preference of the Quraish, as mentioned previously, Abu Bakr himself mentioned this as evidence for the khilafatul rasul over the Ansar, and the Ansar accepted this and agreed to this.

    And this hukm has additional legal circumstances- Hukm Wada`. Only a spiteful hypocrite much like Dhul Kuwaysira, would pass a judgment without knowing the matter and solely to serve his own desires.

    And another matter of speculative wisdom regarding this ruling is that the Tawaghit have among themselves elite rulers and elite families who continue to impose and support kufr and Taghut generation after generation. Like the British monarchy, and the Japanese emperor, and Brahman elite families, and so forth.

    Allah AWJ has even stated that he elevates the evil wicked within every city.

    6:123
    And thus We have placed within every city the greatest of its criminals to conspire therein. But they conspire not except against themselves, and they perceive [it] not.
    And the tawaghit unify around and gain comfort in their kufr by gathering around these evil elite families, year after year, generation after generation. They look to them to insure their darkness and taghy is right. And like this, they will turn to their messiah, Masih Dajjal.

    In contrast, Allah has presented a messiah for the believers, Masih Isa bin Maryam And he has presented an elite from among the Muslim Ummah, the righteous and pious believers of the Quraish. Because most certainly, true to theHukm Wadaa, the prerequisites and conditions of the khilafa remain applicable even to the Quraish.

    And what my personal call and what I think the call of Saifuddin and others here is to call for the return of the khilafa in the way of the Prophethood as the Prophet commanded us to establish. And this would include recognizing the superiority of a qualified pious righteous Quraishi over any others, like Abu Bakr instructed.

    And Allah knows best.
    Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
    " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

 

 

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