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    Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    The Effects on Children in the Future Who Have Been Successfully Alienated Against a Parent
    Ludwig.F. Lowenstein Ph.D

    Southern England Psychological Services

    2010
    Abstract


    All human attitudes and behaviour are learned or are determined by the predisposition of the genes. What is learned begins from birth onwards. Children learn early from a parental example whether to behave positively or manifest less desirable demeanour. Parents who are responsible and caring towards one another, influence the child to behave likewise towards themselves as well as other members of society. Children who are faced with the animosity of one parent against another, may choose to identify with those who maintain the child’s loyalty i.e. the custodial parent, over the non resident parent. Children will view the deceitfulness of the custodial alienating parent as the norm and frequently identify with, and initiate, behaviour shown by the power of the custodial parent. Hence, the child learns early, good or psychopathic traits based on the assumed animosity towards the disadvantaged, alienated parent by developing no conscience or empathy towards that parent, and eventually towards others.




    The Effects on Children in the Future Who Have Been Successfully Alienated Against a Parent

    It has long been established that we are influenced by many factors or events through our genetic predisposition and the earliest and later experiences of childhood. What we experience then influences us throughout our lifetime. A happy and secure childhood with good parents living in harmony has a good influence on children. The reverse is equally true with a negative relationship with one of our parents, possibly through the alienation process of one parent against the other leads to negative repercussions in later life during adolescence or adulthood.

    As a psychological Expert Witness in the courts, one is frequently asked by the court and others about the future of children who are caught up in divorce and separation of their parents following an acrimonious relationship. These children have frequently been alienated against a non custodial following implacable hostility between the parents. Do these children suffer and how are they affected by the hostility between their parents? This leads to many case that have no or little contact with the now absent parent, usually the father.

    It also answers the important question whether children suffer or not from being deprived of one of their parents. There are those who believe, of which I am one, that a child has a birthright to two caring, loving and guiding parents. Such parents need to be good role models who can influence by example the future thinking and behaviour or their offspring.

    The child who lives with parents who are loving, caring and believe and practice good behaviour towards one another and the child i.e. the right attitudes and behaviour, are likely to have children who believe and act similarly. Let us consider what is likely to occur when one or both parents develop a hostility towards one another. It must be remembered that such hostility develops over time. Previously there may have been a comparative harmony between the partners but this very often does not continue when the relationship ceases. Children need therefore, peace and security when parents are in harmony but experience the opposite when parents are in disharmony. Despite the prior differences which naturally occur in families, the relationship between the parents and their children provides security for all concerned. It does not matter what causes a rift between the parents, for the children there is only tragedy both in the short and even the long term.

    It will be demonstrated that many children develop psychopathic tendencies of behaviour as a result of being inadvertently embroiled in the conflict between parents. The children learn how to lie, become underhanded, hostile and deceitful, often at a very young age. This then is perpetuated during adolescence and adulthood. One might well claim that the life of the alienated child is sadly affected over a lifetime. The repercussions go even deeper, as will be seen, into the next generation.



    The impact of children who become implacably hostile to a parent

    Children will react to the behaviour of their parents. Children are affected by the behaviour of parents towards one another. When conflict occurs children who have been close to both parents will frequently need to choose sides. The will often be forced to choose between closeness or loyalty to both parents, to that of one parent. Hence children who have had a good relationship to a now absent parent due to separation, will begin, if indoctrinated, will begin to consider the absent parent as somehow less worthy of their love. This tendency is directly or subtly encouraged by the custodial parent of the child. This could be the mother or the father but is more likely to be the mother.

    The bitterness, the resident parent feels and expresses towards their former partner is usually transferred into the minds of the child/children. The child/children frequently develop a similar view about the now absent parent as the resident parent. The absent parent may seek to retaliate but as that absent parent has no or limited contact with the child/children such retaliation will be ineffective. The alienation or denigration of the absent parent leads to the child/children resenting the absent parent and wishing to have as little contact as possible with that parent at the instigation of the custodial parent. This happens for two reasons: 1) the child is angry with the absent parent for “deserting” him/her; 2) the child blames himself for the absent parent leaving and feels resentment against the absent parent. The resentment in turn is picked up by the custodial parent and the course of denigration begins. The child therefore becomes an accomplice to the alienator.

    This results in years of court appearances for both parents, increasing the bitterness towards one another. Needless to say, the alienating parent is to blame for the situation developing. Such a parent cares little about this. They will claim that they are merely responding to the hated parent for real or imagined misdeeds. Such a parent does not act in the best interest of the child/children. Ideally, as previously mentioned, children prefer harmony rather than disharmony between their parents.

    The children eventually become embroiled in a web of hostility, anger, aggression and deceit. This they have learned from the most important adult in their lives who does not inculcate positive, and constructive emotions in the child. It is not strange therefore, that the children have learned to hate and deceive as instructed, or at least not discouraged, by a custodial parent. Let me illustrate this by an actual ongoing case:

    An illustration of alienation, deceit and hostility

    For over four years there had been an acrimonious relationship between Mr & Mrs X. The alienation of the two daughters aged 7 and 9 began when Mr X, a Muslim decided he wished to divorce his Muslim wife, due to the acrimony which developed between them. Both parties sought total control of their children. They both wished to run the home as they themselves wished it without considering the other party. Mrs X resented the husband seeking a divorce and threatened that if he did so, she would do all she could to prevent his seeing their two children. She therefore sabotaged all contact of the children with the father when father left the home. She totally dominated the children and insidiously prevented them from communicating with the father.

    There were numerous court appearances with the Judiciary arranging weekly contact for the father of the children. Mother defied the court asserting that the girls did not wish to have contact with their father because of the way he had treated them and her in the past. It seemed that the Judiciary was unable to, or unwilling to use more firm means, including punishing the mother for failure to encourage the girls to have contact with their father.



    The role of the Judiciary

    The Judiciary, unfortunately will tend to listen to some psychologists and some psychiatrists who claim that terrible harm will come to the children if mother suffers for her wrong actions. Such kind of unjust Judges unfortunately perpetuate the brainwashing of children against the now absent parent. As a result of the intervention of myself, having been requested to mediate in many cases between parents, the two girls had some contact with their father which increased their desire to be with him. It was however, minimal contact as yet. Mother insisted the two girls only stayed for a few hours with the father and that they should not eat food the father had prepared or accept any presents that the father bought.

    The children were also encouraged by the mother to spy on the father and report back to her. They were instructed to listen to the father’s telephone conversations and read what was on his computer as well as reporting back to the mother what they had observed about the home and its contents. They had also been told that father had enough money to buy them clothes despite the fact that their father was already contributing financially to the mother and children. When he did so however, the clothes were promptly thrown in the bin or never worn. The children showed considerable disrespect to their father having been indoctrinated to do this by the mother.

    This is just one of many such cases of alienation resulting in children learning patterns of disreputable behaviour that are maladaptive to the future life of the children. These children have learned early, via their alienator, how to lie, manipulate and deceive others and show lack of respect to the male species in general. Such behavior from the mother can only be described as psychopathic and this has been passed on to the child/children.

    This kind of behaviour manifested by the child is indeed psychopathological and has been well described by Gardner (2006). In some severe cases of parental alienation, efforts by hostile parents to inculcate the fact that the absent parent (usually the father) is a sexual abuser has been used to great effect. Frequently mothers make the allegations and this is passed on to the police. Hence an innocent parent is frequently involved in being an alleged sex abuser when all he has done is to bathe and dry the children after a bath and has been considered a paedophile for that reason. Such parents sometimes face criminal charges but in the end, on the whole, are found to be innocent. This can be very damaging for a parent and even threaten his livelihood or job. It is certainly psychologically devastating and humiliating for a parent to go through even when found innocent at the end of the process.

    This is likely to occur especially when children masturbate or manifest certain sexualized behaviour which can be interpreted by alienating parents that some kind of sexual abuse has occurred. (Another paper dealing with “child contact disputes between parents and allegations of sex abuse” will cover this more widely. It will also provide an inventory or test to ascertain whether sexual abuse is likely to have occurred or not, having been fabricated via programming a child.) Children who are “programmed” and hence alienated against the non resident parent have a great tendency to develop conduct disorders in later life. This is in accord with DSM IV–


    “a repetitive and persistent pattern of behaviour in which the basic rights of others on major age appropriate societal norms or rules are violated…….”


    Such children become insensitive to others and do not suffer from any lack of guilt. They therefore intimidate, victimise the likely parent who still loves them. They do this verbally and sometimes physically at the behest and approval of the alienating parent.

    Sometimes they sabotage and actively destroy the targeted parent’s home, knowing this is expected by the alienating parent. The child obviously seeks to please that alienating parent and therefore does at much possible harm and damage as possible to the now non resident parent and his extended family.

    Such behaviour has been described as psychopathic, because those who behave in this way lack a conscience or moral principles and therefore are likely to behave in antisocial ways in other areas of life later on functioning, as stated by Gardner (2006),, “the exhibit an impaired obligation to comply with the social standards…….when it comes to the treatment of the alienated parent.” These children suffer from an absence of guilt and shame in what they are doing to the absent parent.

    These early experiences of a child who colludes or sides with one parent against another sets up a pattern of behaviour which becomes increasingly difficult to change. Sometimes later in life, this may engender guilt about what they have done to the caring and loving parent at the instigation of the alienating parent. Living with such guilt is difficult and so the victim who has been alienated seeks for justification in mistreating and rejecting a loving adult, usually the father. Parents who carry out the “programming” against the other parent have no conscience in what they are doing, on the contrary they often justify the “safeguarding” of the child as an excuse to justify their behaviour. This lack of conscience is communicated to the child who equally adopts the same lack of conscience.

    The long term effects vary, but there is considerable evidence that as adults, they are likely to show less respect for authority and are likely more often than not to behave in unsocialised ways. The child has never learned to treat others such as one’s father/ mother with respect. This negative pattern of behaviour will therefore continue in school, in the work setting, and in interpersonal relationships.

    The result is coming into conflict with others and being punished by being rejected by others and frequently by the Law as well (Gardner, 1988a, 1988b). Such punishment although necessary and just is frequently unsuccessful with the psychopathic type personality who feels no sense of guilt because he/she is devoid of a conscience or positive principles which guide behaviour.

    The lack of empathy in being able to put oneself in the position of the unjustly treated and alienated parent, limits any sympathy or empathy one should feel for the demeaned or rejected father /mother. Instead the child, and later adolescent and adult, has totally identified with the alienator. Children on the whole are unable to counteract the brainwashing they have received. This is because they have totally identified with the views of the alienator.

    Among other traits they frequently have is impulsivity, that is, they will tend to act without considering the consequences of their actions. Alienators, who are often paranoid, frequently call on the child protection agencies against the alienated parent when this is unnecessary and hence without justification. A parent who drives or walks by the mutual home will sometimes be viewed as someone who is “harassing” them.

    Such alienators will have difficulties in later life in having a good relationship with another partner, since they have the need to be in control and have the need to dominate a relationship. The cycle of alienation has been noted to continue when children are born (Baker,) and the previous victims of alienation often continue the process of alienation against their partner and his/her family. Hence the deceit of alienation is perpetuated.



    What can and should be done to counteract the process of parental alienation

    It is unfortunate that those suffering from often pathological implacable hostility against their former partner never consider what is in the best interest of their children. This is because the primary concern of alienators is their hostility towards their former partner. The result is deceit and doing all they can with the power that they have to destroy the often previously good relationship between children and the now demeaned and rejected former partner. Such parents therefore have no hesitation to behave in the most sadistic and rejecting way towards the targeted absent parent and also encourage this in their children.

    Only through the courts can this behaviour be curtailed. This, however, needs to be done sooner rather than later. Children when very young need to be stopped from behaving in this way as must the alienator. This can only be achieved by a threat by the court but the threat must have “teeth”! The poisoning of the child’s mind by the alienator and relationship with a partner can only be repaired by the voluntary or involuntary alternatives.

    Should a parent fail to encourage a child to have good contact with the other parent and that contact actually takes place, then the child must be removed from the influence of the alienator to a neutral setting where and effective and intensive therapy can be provided, in order to stop the current mind set of the child. Until this has been achieved, there should be no contact between the abusing alienator and the victimized child. Furthermore, when this change of mindset has been achieved, there needs to be a “legal separation” of the child and the alienator, and the child being placed for some time, if not permanently, with the alienated parent. Hence, the alienated parent should be given legal custody. There should be no contact between the harmful alienator and the child until the implacable hostility gives way to truly encouraging in the future good contact between the child and the former victim of alienation. It is unfortunate that many Judges still fail to see the insidious programming of alienators and even fewer take the necessary steps to curtail it by the legal means described as soon as possible. The longer the process of alienation continues, the more difficult the process of rehabilitation becomes and the longer it takes. It must be accepted that many alienators suffer from psychological problems themselves such as delusions and feelings of entitlement that their process of alienating is justified as is the empowering of children to attack and show malevolence towards the innocent non resident parent. This frequently indeed leads to the resident parent making accusations of sexual abuse against a non custodial parent to prevent any contact between that parent and the children.

    Such emotional abuse when found, should lead to an automatic removal of a child from a custodial parent. That parent who is taking cruel advantage of his/her power over a vulnerable child and vulnerable absent parent should not be allowed to continue having custody of that child. The process is seeking to turn the child against the absent parent, instead of encouraging and making certain that the child has good contact with the now absent parent. The most damaging and unjust allegation is when the child is brainwashed into claiming that some kind of sexual abuse has occurred, when this is totally unfounded.

    Numerous fathers (approximately 20%) who are the non custodial parent according to one researcher (Gardner, 2006). Sometimes fathers will allege sex abuse against their former partner who has a new relationship with a new partner. This is unfortunate and equally is to be discouraged. Any such accusation if found to be valid should lead to the removal of the child from the parent who is responsible for care. Interrogating children wrongly and often frequently, results the interrogator receiving the replies that support sex abuse having occurred. The alleged sex abuse victim is most often a girl, especially when the child reports pain or injury in the sexual area of the body. Such physical reactions may be due to lack of washing, sensitivity to soap or self-manipulation including masturbation. Constantly questioning a child about sex abuse also often leads to the child responding by saying what is expected by the abusing custodial parent who frequently inculcates sex abuse where there is none in the child.

    Where a mother wishes to exclude the absent parent from contact with a child, and more or less obliterates that parent from the child’s life, such allegations are common due to the implacable hostility that one parent, usually the custodial parent, feels against the non custodial parent. It is probably one of the most powerful weapons that can be used against any parent and tends to be false. Neutral questioning needs to be asked of the child and not leading questions as is frequently the case in conducting such evaluations. Only in this way can the truth be established. Those carrying out such assessments need to be totally independent or not biased.

    If sex abuse, or any other abuse has occurred, such children require immediate therapy but this should not occur when the sexual abuse is viewed as doubtful. One must be extremely careful and highly skilled when questioning any child about any abuse that has been alleged. This is due to the fact that children, and especially young children are highly suggestible. Some children are sometimes inculcated with lies by the custodial parent in order to demean the other non custodial parent who possesses little or no power in connection with the child. The child virtually always identifies or imitates the custodial parent (usually the mother). This means demonstrating the same deceitfulness and aggressive behaviour towards the non custodial parent (usually the father). Programmed children are less likely to be able to distinguish between truth and lies because they tend to accept that which the more influential adult claims has happened.

    The child who has previously had a warm and loving relationship with a now absent parent will soon forget this as the custodial parent attacks and states that the absent parent has done dreadful things to the child in the past. Hence truth becomes a lie and the lie the truth. This is because children are suggestible.

    Even interrogators who are allegedly skilled can inculcate the idea that the child has suffered from being sexually or otherwise abused, by continuingly searching and questioning. When the questioning is not in the court with the biased interrogator the interrogator will frequently reply that he wishes the child be very careful about how they are responding and questions continue with the over zealous questioner waiting for the answer that he/she wishes to occur. Such questioners can actually create the abuse in the mind of the child. The child will from then on develop a “delusion” that a parent has actually abused them. Hence the child begins to believe, often for a lifetime, what has not really taken place.

    This creates in the child’s mind a hypervigilance and fear that anyone, especially a member of the same gender, usually a male, is capable of sexually abusing them in the future. It is not at all unlikely that children who have been thus alienated are likely themselves to live lives of lies and deceit and become alienators towards their future adult partner. They therefore perpetuate their own learned psychopathic behaviour and inculcate this into the next generation.

    Such children may for a lifetime suffer from sexual inhibitions and an inability to sincerely love a partner who want such a relationship. Hence the alienated child’s future relationship has become affected. This is a fertile ground for the likelihood of further alienation to continue from one generation to the next.

    http://www.parental-alienation.info/...t_a_parent.htm

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    It is quite unfortunate that this subject is so dangerous and has every capacity to unearth deep cultural taboos. With the odds very badly stacked against them, quite a few men in the West end up deciding that they will simply not take the risk of putting into this world children who will become their own worst enemies. They say that marriage is a "no", and children even more so. This is obviously a gigantic societal problem, which explains a lot of problems, including the rapidly-plummeting birth rate and the impending implosion of the state treasury. The rules surrounding marriage enforced by the government, have changed, and certainly not for the better. The government, the monopoly on violence, seems really poised to stab you in the back at the very first opportunity. That is certainly one reason why I am so deeply invested in everything that could possibly sabotage them. Yes, I am indeed one of these people who incessantly invents new strategies to make their strategies fail, and who takes deep pleasure in doing so. Still, if you are sufficiently well aware of the problem, there are approaches possible -- unfortunately quite complex and not necessarily accessible to everybody -- that will hedge against the problem of ending up with hostile ex-wives and children. Therefore, no matter what dangers are associated with doing so, I personally decided to marry and have children anyway. I do admit, however, that I understand why lots of men do not dare to do that. It is certainly not a pleasant idea that you will be funding at great expense, an ex-wife and children, whose deepest wish it is to see you end up in your grave prematurely.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by pronorah View Post
    It is quite unfortunate that this subject is so dangerous and has every capacity to unearth deep cultural taboos. With the odds very badly stacked against them, quite a few men in the West end up deciding that they will simply not take the risk of putting into this world children who will become their own worst enemies. They say that marriage is a "no", and children even more so. This is obviously a gigantic societal problem, which explains a lot of problems, including the rapidly-plummeting birth rate and the impending implosion of the state treasury. The rules surrounding marriage enforced by the government, have changed, and certainly not for the better. The government, the monopoly on violence, seems really poised to stab you in the back at the very first opportunity. That is certainly one reason why I am so deeply invested in everything that could possibly sabotage them. Yes, I am indeed one of these people who incessantly invents new strategies to make their strategies fail, and who takes deep pleasure in doing so. Still, if you are sufficiently well aware of the problem, there are approaches possible -- unfortunately quite complex and not necessarily accessible to everybody -- that will hedge against the problem of ending up with hostile ex-wives and children. Therefore, no matter what dangers are associated with doing so, I personally decided to marry and have children anyway. I do admit, however, that I understand why lots of men do not dare to do that. It is certainly not a pleasant idea that you will be funding at great expense, an ex-wife and children, whose deepest wish it is to see you end up in your grave prematurely.
    This is targeted to the kufar men, not us Muslim men...but these men are working to by pass this issue. So many are opting out of marriage 100%. So many are opting out of relationship 100%. So many are opting to having a woman in their lives 100%. Many prefer to have sex from one women to another, but making sure they are protected from false allegation and rape in the process. Now many are going through the choice of surrogacy and raising children on their own. I know it is hard to believe, (women already do this so it is not new. Women already have can have babies 100% without a man) but scientists are so close now to perfecting the ability for men to having children with other men and the children coming out 100% healthy. These men who are living in such case scenario are also going to have 100% control of their sexual reproduction without women intervention, control or power over them and their children. The effect of this disease of parental alienation and women thinking the children are their property and men should be excluded from their children and all men is good for is his sperm and money will birth this new disease. Where men will 100% opt out of women from everything (possibly turn gay and use this vile method of having babies) and women will be left alone...if this rate continues there will be separate sex countries. Unless society wake up and put EQUAL importance of both parents and both parents have EQUAL right to raising children and both parents should have EQUAL opportunity of access of the children and follow Allah's (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) law where the father have custody of the child after a certain age....this will happen. This will be bred.
    Last edited by A500DaBest; 27-08-17 at 03:57 AM.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    This is targeted to the kufar men, not us Muslim men...
    The example in the article is about a Muslim man married to a Muslim woman:

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    An illustration of alienation, deceit and hostility. For over four years there had been an acrimonious relationship between Mr & Mrs X. The alienation of the two daughters aged 7 and 9 began when Mr X, a Muslim decided he wished to divorce his Muslim wife, due to the acrimony which developed between them. Both parties sought total control of their children.
    The Satanic enemy is busy successfully subverting what is dearest to us. Merely wishing that you will defeat him, will not cut it. Satan has got us literally by the balls now. This is simply a dangerous ambush. Either you fight orderly in retreat, or else, the Satanic enemy will obviously manage to cut through our lines. So, let us pull back to the line of defensive trenches behind us.

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    So many are opting out of marriage 100%. So many are opting out of relationship 100%. So many are opting to having a woman in their lives 100%.
    This is indeed not the solution either. At some point, we will have no other option than to face off Satan. It will clearly not be optional.

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    if this rate continues there will be separate sex countries.
    This will hit the invariant that says that women cannot defend territory. However, the Satanic enemy could possibly find a way to circumvent this problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    follow Allah's (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) law where the father have custody of the child after a certain age....this will happen. This will be bred.
    The Satanic enemy has already declared to us, that he does not wish us to follow Allah's law, while being deceptive enough to us, for himself to follow Allah's law anyway. As long as Satan keeps following Allah's law, he will be allowed to keep operating. All the while, he will keep trying to convince us not to do the same, and to break Allah's law. The Satanic enemy is unfortunately smart enough to keep pulling that off with lots of people. I am afraid that the war was never going to be easy. Only in Allah we can completely trust.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Sorry, I think there was a misunderstanding When I ment this is target it for Kufar men, I mean not the article but the part where they are opting out of marriage, etc. Well, we shall see what happens in the future.

    But I do know my older brother he quit marriage all together after what he went through and my eldest brother he believes that his children are his to rent but when marriage is over he knows he will lose all his rights on them. The wife knows this and she uses the children as weapon against him. She controls him well.

    Soooooo is that even worth it?

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    Sorry, I think there was a misunderstanding When I ment this is target it for Kufar men, I mean not the article but the part where they are opting out of marriage, etc. Well, we shall see what happens in the future.

    But I do know my older brother he quit marriage all together after what he went through and my eldest brother he believes that his children are his to rent but when marriage is over he knows he will lose all his rights on them. The wife knows this and she uses the children as weapon against him. She controls him well.

    Soooooo is that even worth it?
    If you live in a western country and you don't do anything special to make sure that -- against all odds -- the marriage will still work, you could be walking straight into an ambush. The environment and its rules are just like that. However, if you know beforehand what the dangers are, you can still maneuver, and neutralize the land mines before they go off. If you are already drowning in the mud of a failing marriage, it may already be late in the game to do something. There are still options, but they are harder, if only, because the already feuding wife will obviously not want to cooperate.

    I know a few guys who have a wife here in Southeast Asia. Every year, they go back to work for 6 months in Europe or Australia. Of course, their marriages work trivially well, because, as you can imagine, finding another guy to fund the family at that level, is a sheer impossible talk over here. That is probably one reason why in that situation the wife "really loves" her husband. Other guys clearly do it wrong. They buy an expensive house on their wife's name, and then they are surprised that they soon become miserable. They do not see that it is better to once in a while be a bit behind on the rent, and to let the fear of the landlord's occasional threats to kick them out, do its magic. If she badly needs you, she will surely "fall in love with you again". If she lacks enthusiasm for the marriage, it may help to say "Business is really bad at the moment. I think that we are going to have to cut the expenses." and when she has become more pleasant, you can say: "There has been a fantastic windfall that made money drop out of the skies, praise our beloved Master, the illustrious Allah. Everything is back to normal again. You can go back to spending money."
    Last edited by pronorah; 27-08-17 at 07:18 AM.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by pronorah View Post
    If you live in a western country and you don't do anything special to make sure that -- against all odds -- the marriage will still work, you could be walking straight into an ambush. The environment and its rules are just like that. However, if you know beforehand what the dangers are, you can still maneuver, and neutralize the land mines before they go off. If you are already drowning in the mud of a failing marriage, it may already be late in the game to do something. There are still options, but they are harder, if only, because the already feuding wife will obviously not want to cooperate.

    I know a few guys who have a wife here in Southeast Asia. Every year, they go back to work for 6 months in Europe or Australia. Of course, their marriages work trivially well, because, as you can imagine, finding another guy to fund the family at that level, is a sheer impossible talk over here. That is probably one reason why in that situation the wife "really loves" her husband. Other guys clearly do it wrong. They buy an expensive house on their wife's name, and then they are surprised that they soon become miserable. They do not see that it is better to once in a while be a bit behind on the rent, and to let the fear of the landlord's occasional threats to kick them out, do its magic. If she badly needs you, she will surely "fall in love with you again". If she lacks enthusiasm for the marriage, it may help to say "Business is really bad at the moment. I think that we are going to have to cut the expenses." and when she has become more pleasant, you can say: "There has been a fantastic windfall that made money drop out of the skies, praise our beloved Master, the illustrious Allah. Everything is back to normal again. You can go back to spending money."
    Everything you said above translates=Walk On Eggshell

    Here is what I will say, "NO!"

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    Everything you said above translates=Walk On Eggshell

    Here is what I will say, "NO!"
    Fine, but in that case, feel free to get rid of that government for us. I am all for it. In the meanwhile, while you are still busy doing that, I will just walk on egg shells.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    Everything you said above translates=Walk On Eggshell. Here is what I will say, "NO!"
    Look, I pretty much live exclusively off stabbing them in the back. It makes me truck loads of money. Whenever they do something, I look for ways to sabotage that. So, yes, I really don't like that monopoly on violence, aka, that stinking government. They have destroyed the marriage system. It is pretty much dead now. So, yes, if you manage to eliminate all of them, I will certainly congratulate you. At the same time, I somehow have to remain practical. I cannot go off in theoretical abstractions only. We are still living "in the meanwhile" for the time being. In practical terms, do you have any suggestion for how to better address the problem? I do not expect an immediate solution that will solve it all right now. Just a few additional pointers as to how to better or more extensively get even with them, would be fine already.
    Last edited by pronorah; 27-08-17 at 06:21 PM.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by pronorah View Post
    Look, I pretty much live exclusively off stabbing them in the back. It makes me truck loads of money. Whenever they do something, I look for ways to sabotage that. So, yes, I really don't like that monopoly on violence, aka, that stinking government. They have destroyed the marriage system. It is pretty much dead now. So, yes, if you manage to eliminate all of them, I will certainly congratulate you. At the same time, I somehow have to remain practical. I cannot go off in theoretical abstractions only. We are still living "in the meanwhile" for the time being. In practical terms, do you have any suggestion for how to better address the problem? I do not expect an immediate solution that will solve it all right now. Just a few additional pointers as to how to better or more extensively get even with them, would be fine already.
    Yes, there is one way to do it but it means all of us men 100% do it and since that is not going to happen the problem will never be solved. If you live in a society like we live in the West, Gynocentric and favors women...to solve it is to do 100% marriage strike. Simply put don't get married. Because if you realized when men complain everyone gives you the middle finger and says Boooho! The poor man! Your tears is meaningless! They pretty much shame you and the typical attack you so you submit and be quiet. But when men do marriage strike who will complain? The women. Where are all the good men? Blah blah blah! When women complain everyone goes down to kiss her feet like bunch of dogs. So make women complain by striking from marriage then women will force the situation to change. Put the load on the system to break it....pretty much overload the generator. Is the generator generating electricity for everyone instead of single man marrying and generating electricity for his family? Then overload that generator. Have men and women depend on it...have no man marrying forcing almost all women to rely on the government.......eventually the generator will explode.

    If somehow that doesn't work then marriage is officially destroyed and my suggestion is to move on and focus on what makes you happy...change your perspective from obtaining happiness away from marriage to something else. I realized as human being we adopt to the new changes of the environment and as a man I can adopt so much so that if I am whipped to carry stone for the rest of my life I can find happiness and strength. The one who is going to suffer are the children. Which proofs my point completely. No one gives a damn about children at all and everyone thinks about themselves and are self centered.
    Last edited by A500DaBest; 27-08-17 at 06:35 PM.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    to solve it is to do 100% marriage strike. Simply put don't get married.
    Well, I like marriage. So, I still do it. I am just a bit careful.

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    Where are all the good men? Blah blah blah!
    True. They are often holding back on marriage plans.

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    Put the load on the system to break it....pretty much overload the generator. Is the generator generating electricity for everyone instead of single man marrying and generating electricity for his family? Then overload that generator. Have men and women depend on it...have no man marrying forcing almost all women to rely on the government.......eventually the generator will explode.
    We are seeking to bankrupt the government by removing their control over the money itself. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies may eventually succeed in sinking the state treasury. It also trivially allows people to evade taxes, which is something that I really like to encourage: Don't give them one single dollar whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    If somehow that doesn't work then marriage is officially destroyed and my suggestion is to move on and focus on what makes you happy...change your perspective from obtaining happiness away from marriage to something else. I realized as human being we adopt to the new changes of the environment and as a man I can adopt so much so that if I am whipped to carry stone for the rest of my life I can find happiness and strength.
    That really sounds like the mgtow guys. I think that their approach may not be constructive enough. I personally believe that we can win this war. They just give up. I do not see giving up as an option, because it may mean that we may have to deal with the same problem again in the next life. In that sense, there is no other option than facing off Satan in this life. Seriously, we could as well do it now already.

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    The one who is going to suffer are the children. Which proofs my point completely. No one gives a damn about children at all and everyone thinks about themselves and are self centered.
    I am just a humble servant of our beloved Master, the illustrious Allah, Lord of both worlds, Creator and Sustainer of this universe. Concerning the children, as much as we can, we will try to protect them.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    This is targeted to the kufar men, not us Muslim men...but these men are working to by pass this issue. So many are opting out of marriage 100%. So many are opting out of relationship 100%. So many are opting to having a woman in their lives 100%. Many prefer to have sex from one women to another, but making sure they are protected from false allegation and rape in the process. Now many are going through the choice of surrogacy and raising children on their own. I know it is hard to believe, (women already do this so it is not new. Women already have can have babies 100% without a man) but scientists are so close now to perfecting the ability for men to having children with other men and the children coming out 100% healthy. These men who are living in such case scenario are also going to have 100% control of their sexual reproduction without women intervention, control or power over them and their children. The effect of this disease of parental alienation and women thinking the children are their property and men should be excluded from their children and all men is good for is his sperm and money will birth this new disease. Where men will 100% opt out of women from everything (possibly turn gay and use this vile method of having babies) and women will be left alone...if this rate continues there will be separate sex countries. Unless society wake up and put EQUAL importance of both parents and both parents have EQUAL right to raising children and both parents should have EQUAL opportunity of access of the children and follow Allah's (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) law where the father have custody of the child after a certain age....this will happen. This will be bred.
    Interesting article and true to a major extent ,even though I didnt read fully understood the concept.

    This is also not a kuffar issue ,this is what hatred does you just use the children.

    Sometimes I think the wise thing for the alienated parent to do is to be quiet specially if it is the father ,as children will only hate him more ,this is if the children are not too young.
    If they are very young of course he should fight in courts,if not the children wil be mentally poisoned by the mother.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzybee View Post
    Interesting article and true to a major extent ,even though I didnt read fully understood the concept.

    This is also not a kuffar issue ,this is what hatred does you just use the children.

    Sometimes I think the wise thing for the alienated parent to do is to be quiet specially if it is the father ,as children will only hate him more ,this is if the children are not too young.
    If they are very young of course he should fight in courts,if not the children wil be mentally poisoned by the mother.
    This is why I say to men to leave and cut all ties with your children if such divorce happen. They belong to the mother and not the father. Cut complete tie. Provide them financial support as prescribed by Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) but when any emotional support or any connection with the children completely cut all ties to that child forever. Now. If the child reallllly loves you and really wants to be with you he will go to the mountain to achieve connection with you..then you know that child is worth your attention and love and you didn't waste all your life and time and energy to taking care of a child who in the end will treat you like this 90 year old man was treated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsIuuVkLJrU. If he becomes mother but with male body..or female body (irrelevant) that child doesn't belong to you and you are better off without any connection anyways. Just protect yourself in the afterlife when it comes to money. In the day of the judgement when the child complains to Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) I have a come back to him or her. I have given you something better than myself, I have given you a mother who loves you and take good care of you, I have given you wealth and inheritance and I have given a mother through her you get paradise under her feet. Why do you need me? I am only a door to paradise. Which is better? I can also come at the child in the afterlife and say, the prophet peace be upon him cried for his mother and not his father when they both died to show us the mother is more priority over the father. Pretty much I will shut them up in the day of judgement. However, if a man really wants to have a child and raise the child as his own...i really advice sponsoring. For every hair you groom of that child you get reward for it because he is an orphaned child. Imagine how many children out there who need love from an adult is sitting in an orphanage home either raped, abused, etc.

    I say sponsoring a child over marriage and my own is truly selfless, because I don't put my care about how my children will look like or focus on my gene spreading or or or...I am actually caring about a person over myself interest. How many women could say that? Majority of them are selfish, self centered and proof in the potting by how they don't care about their own children when a divorce happens and use their own children as weapon against the father.

    But I can sleep comfortable at night knowing all these women who did this to their children in this life and the cause of cutting ties between father and children will be punished in the grave and hell fire....and that to me...is the greatest satisfaction that every night when I go to bed, that thought makes sleep with a smile on my face.
    Last edited by A500DaBest; 28-08-17 at 02:34 AM.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    This is why I say to men to leave and cut all ties with your children if such divorce happen. They belong to the mother and not the father. Cut complete tie. Provide them financial support as prescribed by Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) but when any emotional support or any connection with the children completely cut all ties to that child forever. Now. If the child reallllly loves you and really wants to be with you he will go to the mountain to achieve connection with you..then you know that child is worth your attention and love and you didn't waste all your life and time and energy to taking care of a child who in the end will treat you like this 90 year old man was treated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsIuuVkLJrU. If he becomes mother but with male body..or female body (irrelevant) that child doesn't belong to you and you are better off without any connection anyways. Just protect yourself in the afterlife when it comes to money. In the day of the judgement when the child complains to Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) I have a come back to him or her. I have given you something better than myself, I have given you a mother who loves you and take good care of you, I have given you wealth and inheritance and I have given a mother through her you get paradise under her feet. Why do you need me? I am only a door to paradise. Which is better? I can also come at the child in the afterlife and say, the prophet peace be upon him cried for his mother and not his father when they both died to show us the mother is more priority over the father. Pretty much I will shut them up in the day of judgement. However, if a man really wants to have a child and raise the child as his own...i really advice surrogacy. For every hair you groom of that child you get reward for it because he is an orphaned child. Imagine how many children out there who need love from an adult is sitting in an orphanage home either raped, abused, etc.

    I say sponsoring a child over marriage and my own is truly selfless, because I don't put my care about how my children will look like or focus on my gene spreading or or or...I am actually caring about a person over myself interest. How many women could say that? Majority of them are selfish, self centered and proof in the potting by how they don't care about their own children when a divorce happens and use their own children as weapon against the father.

    But I can sleep comfortable at night knowing all these women who did this to their children in this life and the cause of cutting ties between father and children will be punished in the grave and hell fire....and that to me...is the greatest satisfaction that every night when I go to bed, that thought makes sleep with a smile on my face
    .
    As strange as it may sound I agree witj bolded bits

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by pronorah View Post
    Well, I like marriage. So, I still do it. I am just a bit careful.

    That really sounds like the mgtow guys. I think that their approach may not be constructive enough. I personally believe that we can win this war. They just give up. I do not see giving up as an option, because it may mean that we may have to deal with the same problem again in the next life. In that sense, there is no other option than facing off Satan in this life. Seriously, we could as well do it now already.
    What do you mean the same again in next life. In the afterlife there is no other Earth man. In the afterlife you are judged whether to go to paradise or hell fire. For people who are in the hell fire this is the least of their concern. For people in paradise they will have better wives than the wife you will find in this world and if a man wants to be a daddy he can wish it in paradise and the children better than the children you will get this world. Remember you can wish whatever your heart desire want in paradise and you will have it better than this world. Even a small cloth in paradise is better than everything in this world combined.
    Last edited by A500DaBest; 28-08-17 at 02:45 AM.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    In the afterlife you are judged whether to go to paradise or hell fire.
    I said: Either you face off Satan in this world, or else he will just show up again in the next (Who else than Satan sits in the middle of the hell fire?). Why would there be a difference between what I have said and what you have said? I just said it in a different way. I actually prefer to say the same thing, but in my own way. The message is not different, but I simply enjoy saying the same things in a different way.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by pronorah View Post
    I said: Either you face off Satan in this world, or else he will just show up again in the next (Who else than Satan sits in the middle of the hell fire?). Why would there be a difference between what I have said and what you have said? I just said it in a different way. I actually prefer to say the same thing, but in my own way. The message is not different, but I simply enjoy saying the same things in a different way.
    What ....you do realise problems with satan end in this world right.
    He can only deceive us in this dunya , not next....

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzybee View Post
    What ....you do realise problems with satan end in this world right.
    He can only deceive us in this dunya , not next....
    There is indeed a risk in saying things in your own words, because the implications of what you say may sound different. So, I need to correct the phrasing so that it reflects the idea that he will not seek to deceive us in the next world. That concept is not easy to stuff into a few words. English is not even the original language in which these things have originally been said. That is another handicap to overcome. The very tools that we use, may actually be too blunt to precisely express what we should be saying. It is probably a question of making do with what we have.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by pronorah View Post
    There is indeed a risk in saying things in your own words, because the implications of what you say may sound different. So, I need to correct the phrasing so that it reflects the idea that he will not seek to deceive us in the next world. That concept is not easy to stuff into a few words. English is not even the original language in which these things have originally been said. That is another handicap to overcome. The very tools that we use, may actually be too blunt to precisely express what we should be saying. It is probably a question of making do with what we have.
    Bro, why cant you speak english man........

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzybee View Post
    Bro, why cant you speak english man........
    I know right

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzybee View Post
    Bro, why cant you speak english man........
    Natural language is ambiguous. When I try to remove some of its ambiguity, it indeed sounds a bit unnatural. The more you do that, the worse it becomes. That is the number one reason why computer languages look so weird. Still, if we did not do that, the programs would not even work. Speaking like that, is truly a side effect of doing particular types of jobs. I ended up speaking like that, simply, because I ended up thinking like that. It has advantages and disadvantages. However, I think that the advantages are greater.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by pronorah View Post
    Natural language is ambiguous. When I try to remove some of its ambiguity, it indeed sounds a bit unnatural. The more you do that, the worse it becomes. That is the number one reason why computer languages look so weird. Still, if we did not do that, the programs would not even work. Speaking like that, is truly a side effect of doing particular types of jobs. I ended up speaking like that, simply, because I ended up thinking like that. It has advantages and disadvantages. However, I think that the advantages are greater.
    Haha,you can just use simple english terms ,and construct a sentence based on that

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzybee View Post
    Haha,you can just use simple english terms ,and construct a sentence based on that
    If you do not care about how ambiguous the result will be, then it is indeed easy to do.

    About 100 years ago, people even started using the following kind of way ("notation") to express things with more precision:

    ∀x∀y[∀z(z∈x⇔z∈y)⇒x=y]

    It looks like a very complicated way of in fact saying something very, very simple. Seriously, the idea expressed by that complicated-looking phrase is absolutely trivial. Still, there are good reasons why people do that. As long as you do not see why exactly people do that, you will think that it is totally over the top that people insist using such complicated-looking notation. The funny thing is that this notation (Russell-Whitehead) is still not precise enough to unambiguously instruct a computing device what you expect it to do.

    With simple English, it is not even possible to express the concept of "ambiguity", because the term is not considered "simple enough". Simple English may therefore be so highly ambiguous that it cannot possibly express particular, essential truths about itself.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    This is why I say to men to leave and cut all ties with your children if such divorce happen. They belong to the mother and not the father. Cut complete tie. Provide them financial support as prescribed by Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) but when any emotional support or any connection with the children completely cut all ties to that child forever. Now. If the child reallllly loves you and really wants to be with you he will go to the mountain to achieve connection with you..then you know that child is worth your attention and love and you didn't waste all your life and time and energy to taking care of a child who in the end will treat you like this 90 year old man was treated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsIuuVkLJrU. If he becomes mother but with male body..or female body (irrelevant) that child doesn't belong to you and you are better off without any connection anyways. Just protect yourself in the afterlife when it comes to money. In the day of the judgement when the child complains to Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) I have a come back to him or her. I have given you something better than myself, I have given you a mother who loves you and take good care of you, I have given you wealth and inheritance and I have given a mother through her you get paradise under her feet. Why do you need me? I am only a door to paradise. Which is better? I can also come at the child in the afterlife and say, the prophet peace be upon him cried for his mother and not his father when they both died to show us the mother is more priority over the father. Pretty much I will shut them up in the day of judgement. However, if a man really wants to have a child and raise the child as his own...i really advice sponsoring. For every hair you groom of that child you get reward for it because he is an orphaned child. Imagine how many children out there who need love from an adult is sitting in an orphanage home either raped, abused, etc.

    I say sponsoring a child over marriage and my own is truly selfless, because I don't put my care about how my children will look like or focus on my gene spreading or or or...I am actually caring about a person over myself interest. How many women could say that? Majority of them are selfish, self centered and proof in the potting by how they don't care about their own children when a divorce happens and use their own children as weapon against the father.

    But I can sleep comfortable at night knowing all these women who did this to their children in this life and the cause of cutting ties between father and children will be punished in the grave and hell fire....and that to me...is the greatest satisfaction that every night when I go to bed, that thought makes sleep with a smile on my face.
    Sounds quite a twisted and defensive thought approach to me.
    What happens to others in afterlife, will hardly be your concern at that time, when it happens.
    A loving father will continue to play his role financially and emotionally, even if he is not appreciated, loved or even hated. And it's not uncommon to see father play their role and yet be hated for it.
    But then that's what being a father is. Another persons meanness should not change your view of fatherhood.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by Snippets View Post
    Sounds quite a twisted and defensive thought approach to me.
    What happens to others in afterlife, will hardly be your concern at that time, when it happens.
    A loving father will continue to play his role financially and emotionally, even if he is not appreciated, loved or even hated. And it's not uncommon to see father play their role and yet be hated for it.
    But then that's what being a father is. Another persons meanness should not change your view of fatherhood.
    Lol....teenagers these days.

    However, I do agree with your afterlife comment though......But for a parent who goes through it, that thought process helps to curtail the emotional loss.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    It may help to curtail the emotional loss, but, not a manly act. Fatherhood is a responsibility and a real man will not shun it, regardless of how bitch of a wife he happens to get, excuse my language. And same holds true of motherhood.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by Snippets View Post
    It may help to curtail the emotional loss, but, not a manly act. Fatherhood is a responsibility and a real man will not shun it, regardless of how bitch of a wife he happens to get, excuse my language. And same holds true of motherhood.
    Yet! Yet! Nothing is done to resolve this. As long as the child is with the mother and there is little communication between the father and child that is 100% ok. So what if the child hates the father, that is the role of the father to be hated and resented. Are you serious? Please tell me anywhere you see in the Quran where Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) command the child to hate the father and love the mother. Show me one verse that says that. Show me one Ahadith that says that. I have not seeing one and you will not see it. So for a child to hate the father and the father have to be man to take it and do his duty is OK or what can you do or sunnah of this world makes me go what?!

    CHILD SHOULD not hate a parent regardless of mother or father if the parent is good...heck even if the parent is kafir you are not suppose to hate that parent/

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    Quote Originally Posted by A500DaBest View Post
    Yet! Yet! Nothing is done to resolve this. As long as the child is with the mother and there is little communication between the father and child that is 100% ok. So what if the child hates the father, that is the role of the father to be hated and resented. Are you serious? Please tell me anywhere you see in the Quran where Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) command the child to hate the father and love the mother. Show me one verse that says that. Show me one Ahadith that says that. I have not seeing one and you will not see it. So for a child to hate the father and the father have to be man to take it and do his duty is OK or what can you do or sunnah of this world makes me go what?!

    CHILD SHOULD not hate a parent regardless of mother or father if the parent is good...heck even if the parent is kafir you are not suppose to hate that parent/
    I understand your frustration brother, in these circumstances, things are set against fathers. But I think, there are certain things one does to satisfy ones own self. And bcoz the kids are not responsible for this situation, it will be sad that they won't see the love of their father. If there is contact, there is hope that one day kids will see the love of their father, if he abandons they will be no hope.
    Last edited by Snippets; 29-08-17 at 05:48 PM.

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    Re: Effects on Children Who Have Been Successfully Alienated against a Parent

    I am going to a final closing in this. My mom gave me a great advice. She said that your children should not be the reason for your happiness but the reflection of your happiness. The reason is because the wife WILL AND SHE WILL use the children to control her husband to a point that if he doesn't breath this amount of breathing and rhythm she will use the children against him. She can go far as ask him to worship her and if he doesn't he will lose access to the children that is how far a wife will go..no doubt. So what does it mean? It means that if he loses his children, he doesn't get hurt or get effected by it. He uses his logical sense and common sense. He fulfill his right as a father to these children in separation and if the wife denies him access, he then provide financial support and move on until she provide him access. This way the only one to blame and be hated is her. If she makes the children hate the father...success rate 98% that is fine..the father WILL get his revenge on his children in the afterlife.

    I made an oath to myself..if I had children and we got divorced and my x-wife did that to me and the children hate me that in the day of judgement I want all the good deeds of all my children who did this to me and I want them to take all my bad deeds. I have my rights on them. The one who is truly unloving, uncaring, selfish, self centered, narcissistic, evil and unfit to be parent is that woman who destroyed my children to try to hurt me. I am taking her all her good deeds too in the afterlife if she does that to me. Warning to any future women out there who want act evil...there are men out there like me...you are only destroying yourself and your children. Take heed and warning from this evil and vile and war act to society. Just because you are born with two X chromosome and have female body doesn't give you any pass to evil act. Yeah there are so many evil men out there, who are rapist, murders, abusers, killers, thieves, liars, etc. but that act..your act doesn't anywhere put it less evil than the ones mentioned right here.
    Last edited by A500DaBest; 30-08-17 at 12:37 AM.

 

 

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