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    The concept of Qawwamah

    I've been reading up some arguments by the liberals about how the concept of Qawammah (Obedience of a wife to a husband) doesn't need to apply when women outearning their husbands. I know this is absolutely preposterous since I believe the Quran to be for all times and for all places. Was this issue categorically dealt with anywhere??

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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    It matters not whether shes earning more or less than him. What matters is that if he is not providing for his wife than she does not have to give him his marital rights.

    But stay away from these things the shaytaan will try to make you think of these things and create fitna

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    Abu-Tawheed Saif-Uddin's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquished View Post
    I've been reading up some arguments by the liberals about how the concept of Qawammah (Obedience of a wife to a husband) doesn't need to apply when women outearning their husbands. I know this is absolutely preposterous since I believe the Quran to be for all times and for all places. Was this issue categorically dealt with anywhere??
    Earnings have no significance to wife's obedience to husband,

    http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

    "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

    – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquished View Post
    I've been reading up some arguments by the liberals about how the concept of Qawammah (Obedience of a wife to a husband) doesn't need to apply when women outearning their husbands. I know this is absolutely preposterous since I believe the Quran to be for all times and for all places. Was this issue categorically dealt with anywhere??
    So Khadija(ra) shouldnt have obeyed Prophet(sa) as a wife ?

    The thing that liberals miss in the verse is one thing and they make Qawwamah seem to be about one thing. Let me quote the verse.

    Men are in charge of women
    by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other
    and
    what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth.

    The reasons of Qawammah are 2. One is spending and other is what Allah gave one over the other. In whose tafseer, Ibn Kathir, Baghawi and classical scholars say include many things that Allah gave men over women. Like right of divorce, right to lead Salah, lead State, Prophethood etc etc.

    If a wife earns more then it still doesnt nullify the firsr clause of the verse which is intrinsic to how Allah created.

    So no.. Qawwamah cant be nullified or circumvented. Its the way Allah created.

    What we can say is just like a ruler can be oppressor. Qawammah can be misused and not fulfilled by men.
    Last edited by savo234; 17-07-17 at 10:07 PM.

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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by savo234 View Post
    So Khadija(ra) shouldnt have obeyed Prophet(sa) as a wife ?

    The thing that liberals miss in the verse is one thing and they make Qawwamah seem to be about one thing. Let me quote the verse.

    Men are in charge of women
    by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other
    and
    what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth.

    The reasons of Qawammah are 2. One is spending and other is what Allah gave one over the other. In whose tafseer, Ibn Kathir, Baghawi and classical scholars say include many things that Allah gave men over women. Like right of divorce, right to lead Salah, lead State, Prophethood etc etc.

    If a wife earns more then it still doesnt nullify the firsr clause of the verse which is intrinsic to how Allah created.

    So no.. Qawwamah cant be nullified or circumvented. Its the way Allah created.

    What we can say is just like a ruler can be oppressor. Qawammah can be misused and not fulfilled by men.
    I'm not entirely sure if I am getting the chronology right but wasn't Surah Nisa revealed after Khadija (RA) passed away?

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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquished View Post
    I'm not entirely sure if I am getting the chronology right but wasn't Surah Nisa revealed after Khadija (RA) passed away?
    This was just an example. However you have to address the second point that Allah(swt) mentioned 2 reasons for Qawamah not just one(of earning). Do you have any answer for that point.

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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    The two reasons are
    ( بما فضل الله بعضهم على بعض )
    With what Allah preferred one over the other
    ( وبما أنفقوا من أموالهم )
    AND what they spend from their wealths.

    These are two clauses in arabic separated by the conjugation. And read any tafsir, they treat these two as reasons.

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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by savo234 View Post
    This was just an example. However you have to address the second point that Allah(swt) mentioned 2 reasons for Qawamah not just one(of earning). Do you have any answer for that point.
    I think you've misunderstood. I do understand the reasoning behind Qawammah. Let me know if I am understanding this correctly. Can the women forego her right to maintainance in a marriage(Eg: She earns her own money) if she doesn't want to obey her husband?

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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquished View Post
    I think you've misunderstood. I do understand the reasoning behind Qawammah. Let me know if I am understanding this correctly. Can the women forego her right to maintainance in a marriage(Eg: She earns her own money) if she doesn't want to obey her husband?
    If she wants exceptions then she has to write that in NIkah in contract. And if she gets such a man who says "Ok, I ll not ask for you to obey me as long as you do your own earning". Then Shariah does not interfere between what two people decide mutually. Its their life, their settlement.

    If there is such a woman then she should find a man suitable. Islam allows that what they decide mutually.

    The default is that she has to . And Qawamah is not just obedience of wives to husbands. It extends to society like leading Salah, like father being guardians etc etc. As for the particular issue of obedience then the default is that she has to follow the command of Allah(swt) to obey husbands except if he asks something beyond her capability or something sinful.

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    موحد Abd al-Rahman's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquished View Post
    I've been reading up some arguments by the liberals about how the concept of Qawammah (Obedience of a wife to a husband) doesn't need to apply when women outearning their husbands. I know this is absolutely preposterous since I believe the Quran to be for all times and for all places. Was this issue categorically dealt with anywhere??
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquished View Post
    I think you've misunderstood. I do understand the reasoning behind Qawammah. Let me know if I am understanding this correctly. Can the women forego her right to maintainance in a marriage(Eg: She earns her own money) if she doesn't want to obey her husband?
    No, because when Allah(swt) revealed the qawwamah that men have over women, the first thing he said was بما فضل الله بعضهم على بعض, this means there are areas where the man inherently exceeds the woman and excels over her, and this can not be changed no matter who the breadwinner is, or whether the husband spends on her or not. So even if she gives up her maintenace, she owes him obedience and respect, and should enthusiastically attempt to fulfill his rights.
    وَمَا قَدَرُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ قَدْرِهِ وَالْأَرْضُ جَمِيعًا قَبْضَتُهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَالسَّمَاوَاتُ مَطْوِيَّاتٌ بِيَمِينِهِ ۚ سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَىٰ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ
    They have not appraised Allah with true appraisal, while the earth entirely will be [within] His grip on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him. (Az-Zumar: 67)

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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by savo234 View Post

    The reasons of Qawammah are 2. One is spending and other is what Allah gave one over the other. In whose tafseer, Ibn Kathir, Baghawi and classical scholars say include many things that Allah gave men over women. Like right of divorce, right to lead Salah, lead State, Prophethood etc etc.
    Alhamdulillah this is all a benefit for women and a responsibility on men, if only the west, men themselves, the liberals and those who take issue with it would really understand this concept.
    Men have a lot to answer for on the day of qiyamah and with the state this ummah is in right now I sure wouldn't want to be them.
    شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
    فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
    وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
    ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
    Alhamdulillah this is all a benefit for women and a responsibility on men, if only the west, men themselves, the liberals and those who take issue with it would really understand this concept.
    Men have a lot to answer for on the day of qiyamah and with the state this ummah is in right now I sure wouldn't want to be them.
    I absolutely agree with you. It may happen that this qawammah becomes a burden on the day of judgement and something that a man wishes he was'nt given. But in Islam, we are given a question paper and whatever it is, we have to solve it. WIthin men themselves, the responsibility and fadl that Allah gives to one man varies over another. But the accountability is according to responsibility and fadl given. This fadl may end up become a double headache on day of judgement if the person does not utilize this according to Islam.

    So if women are not given something then perhaps its in their benefit. And for sure, they can compete with men or outclass them still in a lot of things and get better status on day of judgement. The feminism will like women to focus on some of things that Allah(swt) forbids.

    "And do not wish for that by which Allah has made some of you exceed others. For men is a share of what they have earned, and for women is a share of what they have earned. And ask Allah of his bounty. Indeed Allah is ever, of all things, Knowing. "

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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    These have unfortunately become alien concepts in the West where women have been brainwashed into accepting non Islamic values. They see it as at inequality to obey another man. I even heard one woman argue she worships Allah not her husband although her husband was only calling to an Islamic teaching. it's all a byproduct of spending too much time in non Islamic environments and nowhere near enough time in understanding the Deen. Technology has advanced and women have happily embraced this yet want to stay ignorant of the Deen. In many cases the only thing they value is secular education so if you bring up issues like the one discussed they'll think your making it up simply because they are ignorant of it.

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    On A Hired Plane of Logic LailaTheMuslim's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by Abd al-Rahman View Post
    No, because when Allah(swt) revealed the qawwamah that men have over women, the first thing he said was بما فضل الله بعضهم على بعض, this means there are areas where the man inherently exceeds the woman and excels over her, and this can not be changed no matter who the breadwinner is, or whether the husband spends on her or not. So even if she gives up her maintenace, she owes him obedience and respect, and should enthusiastically attempt to fulfill his rights.
    As far as I have read from scholars, spending is obligatory on the man as obedience is on the woman.

    https://islamqa.info/en/245408

    Quote Originally Posted by Islamqa
    It was narrated that Mu‘aawiyah al-Qushayri (may Allah be pleased with him) said: I said: O Messenger of Allah, what are the rights of the wife of one of us over him? He said: “That you feed her as you feed yourself, clothe her as you clothe yourself, do not strike the face, do not disgrace her and if you want to shun her (by way of disciplining her) do not leave home.”

    Narrated by Abu Dawood (2142) and Ibn Maajah (1850); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

    This has been discussed previously in fatwa no. 145722

    If the husband fails to spend on his wife’s maintenance, then she has the choice of leaving him or putting up with him.


    If she chooses to put up with him, in the hope that he will change, if he is withholding her maintenance out of miserliness and stinginess, or until his financial situation improves, if he is not well off, then she is not obliged to allow him to be intimate with her.

    Ash-Shiraazi ash-Shaafa‘i said in al-Muhadhdhab fi Fiqh al-Imam ash-Shaafa‘i (3/155):

    If she chooses to stay after he becomes unable to spend on her, she is not obliged to allow him to be intimate with her, and she may leave his house, because allowing intimacy is in return for maintenance,
    so it is not obligatory when there is no maintenance. End quote.
    وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

    And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


    أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

    Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by ottomanhanafi View Post
    These have unfortunately become alien concepts in the West where women have been brainwashed into accepting non Islamic values. They see it as at inequality to obey another man. I even heard one woman argue she worships Allah not her husband although her husband was only calling to an Islamic teaching. it's all a byproduct of spending too much time in non Islamic environments and nowhere near enough time in understanding the Deen. Technology has advanced and women have happily embraced this yet want to stay ignorant of the Deen. In many cases the only thing they value is secular education so if you bring up issues like the one discussed they'll think your making it up simply because they are ignorant of it.
    Your points are weird. I guess you have also been brainwashed to think that you are entitled to being respected by women without looking at what you can offer to them.

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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by nudgetheputri View Post
    Your points are weird. I guess you have also been brainwashed to think that you are entitled to being respected by women without looking at what you can offer to them.
    So if a man enjoins good his asking to be worshipped??

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    Odan nudgetheputri's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by ottomanhanafi View Post
    So if a man enjoins good his asking to be worshipped??
    From what was mentioned by you, yes.

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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    As far as I have read from scholars, spending is obligatory on the man as obedience is on the woman.

    https://islamqa.info/en/245408
    Yes, but he was asking what if a woman chooses to forego her maintenance, which afaik the scholars have mostly viewed as permissible, look at nikah misyar, is the woman still required to obey her husband, and the answer is yes, because that requirement is not just established due to the man's spending on the woman, but it certainly has a part in it.
    وَمَا قَدَرُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ قَدْرِهِ وَالْأَرْضُ جَمِيعًا قَبْضَتُهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَالسَّمَاوَاتُ مَطْوِيَّاتٌ بِيَمِينِهِ ۚ سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَىٰ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ
    They have not appraised Allah with true appraisal, while the earth entirely will be [within] His grip on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him. (Az-Zumar: 67)

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    On A Hired Plane of Logic LailaTheMuslim's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by Abd al-Rahman View Post
    Yes, but he was asking what if a woman chooses to forego her maintenance, which afaik the scholars have mostly viewed as permissible, look at nikah misyar, is the woman still required to obey her husband, and the answer is yes, because that requirement is not just established due to the man's spending on the woman, but it certainly has a part in it.
    If you had read the quote it says that if a man fails to pay the maintenance, it's allowed for her not to obey, for example in intimacy and leaving their home.
    وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

    And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


    أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

    Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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    موحد Abd al-Rahman's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
    If you had read the quote it says that if a man fails to pay the maintenance, it's allowed for her not to obey, for example in intimacy and leaving their home.
    Weird, idk why but i never got a notification from this

    The fatwa addresses the man who is either unwilling or unable to pay

    I thought OP is asking about a situation where a woman voluntarily refuses maintenance, even if he can pay, so that she doesnt have to obey him, if that makes sense?
    وَمَا قَدَرُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ قَدْرِهِ وَالْأَرْضُ جَمِيعًا قَبْضَتُهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَالسَّمَاوَاتُ مَطْوِيَّاتٌ بِيَمِينِهِ ۚ سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَىٰ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ
    They have not appraised Allah with true appraisal, while the earth entirely will be [within] His grip on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him. (Az-Zumar: 67)

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    On A Hired Plane of Logic LailaTheMuslim's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    Quote Originally Posted by Abd al-Rahman View Post
    Weird, idk why but i never got a notification from this

    The fatwa addresses the man who is either unwilling or unable to pay

    I thought OP is asking about a situation where a woman voluntarily refuses maintenance, even if he can pay, so that she doesnt have to obey him, if that makes sense?
    I'm not sure about that, sorry brother.

    @Darul Ilm
    وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

    And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


    أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

    Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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  22. #22
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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    I am always baffled by these types of discourses, why on earth would you even consider a liberal in the first place ? your completely out of your mind to even entertain this, it's not her fault but yours, it's akin to going to a club to pick up a women then complain about why she has a different view on the concept of Hijab.

    There is never a need to bring up 'Qawwamah' topic to a women full stop, just the same you wouldn't randomly go to a women or a potential and quote her hadith about the "The responsibilities of the Husband to the Wife" because it comes of as disingenuous, deceitful and troublesome, no on in their right mind does these kind of things.

    I don't even understand why this is even an discussion, these kinds of people are very easy to screen out, you don't even need to talk to them, just a single cursory glance is enough to rule them out.

  23. #23
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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    I notice there are so many women out there hate the idea of obeying husband and find the very concept insulting, demeaning, oppressive of women, archaic, the list goes on. Feminist first ideology is breaking of marriage by removing man from the role model of family unity under the guise that marrying a man is oppressive to a woman. African community in USA are run by women and single mothers (not men and marriage) and they are taking care off by welfare and the government. The government through their programs have removed husbands and fathers from family in African community in USA...now after generation and generation of single mothers what we see highest crime rate, highest school drops, child abuse/sexual abuse, mothers killing their children by such large amount, no lineage or goal and living like animals.


    It just shows that Allah (Subhanaha Wa Talaa) created a system like this for us in place as a form of check so we don't go in chaos. In Afterlife we don't need husband or men's role for anything...because in afterlife it is either you go to paradise or hellfire and in paradise a man don't need to work, or toil, he eat, enjoy...sit under the branch of a tree, have sexual intercourse and fulfill his wishes. No children on his neck that hate him or think he lacked his fatherly duty on them, no angry wife who have an encyclopedia of all his faults and why he is the scum of the Earth, no jealousy, no hate...etc.

    Maybe instead of us constantly questioning the laws that Allah (subhanahu Wa talaa) enforced into us...that we actually apply them willingly and happily and submit and do our best to reach our success in the afterlife?
    Last edited by A500DaBest; 19-08-17 at 02:26 AM.

  24. #24
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    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    I have one question that entered my mind. What if the husband she married is not that smart or she is way smarter than him and he is weak of character and the wife is very strong and controlling and she orders him around he obeys her. She ask him to clean the dishes, to change the diapers pretty much she have full control of every single thing of his life, he have no say or word and the focus light is 100% on her. He obeys her like a good little boy (I know because my grandmother was like that to her husband) and he accept it. In some cases she goes out and work, because he cannot find a job or is not making enough money...and he is powerless to say anything...does that mean in the day of judgement she is the one who will be accounted in the same manner as the husband would be accounted too if he was the leader while the weak, inferior, pathetic husband will not be accounted too in the same way as a strong husband would?

 

 

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