Hello & Welcome to our community. Is this your first visit? Register
Ads by Muslim Ad Network


Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 80 of 144
  1. #1
    Odan muzzybee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    12,134
    Mentioned
    368 Post(s)
    Quoted
    3116 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    517

    Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gingerbeardman View Post
    many reverts bring baggage, our own jahiliyyah into the deen. We need culturing just the same as everyone else, if not more so.

    As well as this, many reverts are drawn to the super-salafis and more exotic sufi groups which can behave in a very cult like manner, where transgressions are covered up for the benefit of the wider group.
    This statement realy got me thinking.Specially being drawn to extremes in deen.

    @Gingerbeardman you are a revert and very active in dawah.
    How does one handle this situation.

    For example is a forum good idea for a revert
    Where do they go to learn the deen.
    What can born muslims learn from reverts and vice versa.
    What are the risks for reverts.
    How to approach reverts for marriage.

    Would be an interesting discussion.

    Youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYk...dE4pHzSid7Lr0w

    **** Smiling won't cost you now is it ****

    Zawjati ,“Uhibbuki mithla mâ antę” “Uhibbuki kaifamâ kunteee”“Wa mahmâ kâna mahma sâra”

  2. #41
    Outcast aynina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    10,723
    Mentioned
    577 Post(s)
    Quoted
    8599 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    565

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by zi-zizou View Post
    I always find it odd that some hold onto nothing specific so tightly.
    Ugh whatever
    يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

    O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

    Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

  3. #42
    Odan
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    12,939
    Mentioned
    386 Post(s)
    Quoted
    6185 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    556

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzybee View Post
    This statement realy got me thinking.Specially being drawn to extremes in deen.

    @Gingerbeardman you are a revert and very active in dawah.
    How does one handle this situation.

    For example is a forum good idea for a revert
    Where do they go to learn the deen.
    What can born muslims learn from reverts and vice versa.
    What are the risks for reverts.
    How to approach reverts for marriage.

    Would be an interesting discussion.


    One of the biggest risks for females (more so than men) is that they get desperate to find attachment that they end up marrying a dud and realise a bit too late.

  4. #43
    061116 Rifqah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    2,484
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1812 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    259

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by itsgiise View Post
    Perhaps you can give insight into this then. I've always been curious about those attracted to those extremist( don't think we should call it this, they plain wrong).
    How do they rationalise what these groups are doing to innocent people, let alone the horrific things they do to other innocent muslims ?
    How do they look past these things when they join these groups.
    I can only offer what I've learnt about those attracted to abusive partners who are not horrified and afraid by what they see as often they are numb to it, they've seen or experienced worse in their life. They are used to living life on the edge and can settle for nothing less in their new life as a Muslim. Some have been marginalised in life and are looking to be someone, make their mark in life. Others might be attracted by the fairytale fantasy of something they perceive to be occurring that in reality, isn't.

    Sometimes being attracted to extremes is a good thing. To want someone who is extremely kind, extremely loving, extremely dedicated to worshipping Allah (swt) is a wonderful thing Alhamdulillah, may we all be guided to this extreme. Ameen

    يعلم ما كان و ما يكون و ما لم يكن إذا كان كيف يكون

  5. #44
    a muslim in a odd place HelloEverybody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    1,159
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Quoted
    658 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    79

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by zi-zizou View Post
    I always find it odd that some hold onto nothing specific so tightly.
    My guess would be that she meant that people with other origin find her origin meaningless and mired with with bad practices, while they see their own culture superior.

  6. #45
    Odan
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    6,156
    Mentioned
    55 Post(s)
    Quoted
    2006 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    113

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzybee View Post
    This statement realy got me thinking.Specially being drawn to extremes in deen.

    @Gingerbeardman you are a revert and very active in dawah.
    How does one handle this situation.

    For example is a forum good idea for a revert
    Where do they go to learn the deen.
    What can born muslims learn from reverts and vice versa.
    What are the risks for reverts.
    How to approach reverts for marriage.

    Would be an interesting discussion.

    There are two types of reverts.

    The one who reverts for the sake of Allah and studied the deen, conscious of the sacrifices he/she makes and becomes a good muslim

    The one who 'reverts' for dunya sake, still steeped in jahiliyah, goes to commit his sins as usual. On the other spectrum the other who goes to extremes and becomes gullet.

    The easiness by which someone becomes a muslim is double edged sword

  7. #46
    Forgive me please patient believer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    7,887
    Mentioned
    345 Post(s)
    Quoted
    2723 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    488

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    What is extreme Islam?
    We are using media linguistics.
    Ya Allah,
    Make me a stronger person today. Make me a better person out of all these. It is no longer bearable for me for my heart is aching and You are the only One who knows how I feel. Nothing is making sense to myself and for anyone else for that matter especially to the one person I wish to understand me better than anybody else.
    "Don't use the sharpness of your tongue on the mother who taught you how to speak

  8. #47
    Odan
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    12,939
    Mentioned
    386 Post(s)
    Quoted
    6185 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    556

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by HelloEverybody View Post
    My guess would be that she meant that people with other origin find her origin meaningless and mired with with bad practices, while they see their own culture superior.
    Yes perhaps but their own culture won't be that superior either.

  9. #48
    king Julien XIII itsgiise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    386
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Quoted
    284 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by patient believer View Post
    What is extreme Islam?
    We are using media linguistics.
    Exactly. Personally i like to think of them being wrong or misguided instead of extreme.
    Whenever i see these groups i often think back this verse:

    "It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding"

    Verse (3:7)

    I see them as no different then the hate groups who hate islam and look for specific verses that can be interpreted towards their narrative.
    Last edited by itsgiise; 19-05-17 at 07:32 PM.

  10. #49
    061116 Rifqah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    2,484
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1812 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    259

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by itsgiise View Post
    Exactly. Personally i like to think of them being wrong or misguided instead of extreme.
    Whenever i see these groups i often think back this verse:

    "It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding"

    Verse (3:7)

    I see them as no different then the hate groups who hate islam and look for specific verses that can be interpreted towards their narrative.
    Don't we all do that to one degree or another?

    يعلم ما كان و ما يكون و ما لم يكن إذا كان كيف يكون

  11. #50
    king Julien XIII itsgiise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    386
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Quoted
    284 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rifqah View Post
    Don't we all do that to one degree or another?
    I certainly hope not.
    I'm not sure i understand, please elaborate

  12. #51
    061116 Rifqah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    2,484
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1812 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    259

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by itsgiise View Post
    I certainly hope not.
    I'm not sure i understand, please elaborate
    Not intentionally, but don't we all like a certain thing, do a certain thing and gravitate towards the best of verses, ahadith, schools of fiqh that permit us to live the way we would like?

    (Rather than choosing the most stringent path.)

    I'm not talking about purposefully and consciously.

    يعلم ما كان و ما يكون و ما لم يكن إذا كان كيف يكون

  13. #52
    king Julien XIII itsgiise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    386
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Quoted
    284 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rifqah View Post
    Not intentionally, but don't we all like a certain thing, do a certain thing and gravitate towards the best of verses, ahadith, schools of fiqh that permit us to live the way we would like?

    (Rather than choosing the most stringent path.)

    I'm not talking about purposefully and consciously.
    I guess we do. Never actually thought about that.
    But the verse refers to people who ignore a specific and clear verse that discourages something and look for a vague one that could potentially be interpreted as giving green light.
    hopefully most of us don't go so far.

  14. #53
    061116 Rifqah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    2,484
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1812 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    259

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by itsgiise View Post
    I guess we do. Never actually thought about that.
    But the verse refers to people who ignore a specific and clear verse that discourages something and look for a vague one that could potentially be interpreted as giving green light.
    hopefully most of us don't go so far.
    Probably not, Alhamdulillah.

    يعلم ما كان و ما يكون و ما لم يكن إذا كان كيف يكون

  15. #54
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    32
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    17 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by patient believer View Post
    What is extreme Islam?
    I wonder the same thing.
    Last edited by Muslim9281; 19-05-17 at 09:16 PM.

  16. #55
    Odan Abu Kamel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    5,441
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1469 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    174

    Re: Reverts - A discussion



    There is something truly wrong with this thread. Why do Muslims feel compelled to judge and then manipulate reverts?

    Why aren't you compelled to judge and then deal with the hypocrites and apostates who are destroying Islam and misguiding Muslims?

    It seems the attention is misdirected.
    Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
    " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

  17. #56
    Odan muzzybee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    12,134
    Mentioned
    368 Post(s)
    Quoted
    3116 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    517

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Kamel View Post


    There is something truly wrong with this thread. Why do Muslims feel compelled to judge and then manipulate reverts?

    Why aren't you compelled to judge and then deal with the hypocrites and apostates who are destroying Islam and misguiding Muslims?

    It seems the attention is misdirected.
    Waalaikumussalam ,
    It is not a judge per ae.
    It is an observation of someone who comes across reverts probably daily due to involvement in dawah.
    So this is facts.
    If some is expert in the latter bit you mentioned obviously can be discussed.

    These are two dif discussions.
    We are not discussing to put people down ,want to see what is happening.
    About two years ago iera who are the most active group for reverts in uk mentioned so many reverts are leaving islam .why?

    Youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYk...dE4pHzSid7Lr0w

    **** Smiling won't cost you now is it ****

    Zawjati ,“Uhibbuki mithla mâ antę” “Uhibbuki kaifamâ kunteee”“Wa mahmâ kâna mahma sâra”

  18. #57
    Odan muzzybee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    12,134
    Mentioned
    368 Post(s)
    Quoted
    3116 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    517

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    @Rifqah , @aynina how did you figure how to learn the different aspects of deen.
    I presume internet was a major part of your study.

    Youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYk...dE4pHzSid7Lr0w

    **** Smiling won't cost you now is it ****

    Zawjati ,“Uhibbuki mithla mâ antę” “Uhibbuki kaifamâ kunteee”“Wa mahmâ kâna mahma sâra”

  19. #58
    Odan muzzybee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    12,134
    Mentioned
    368 Post(s)
    Quoted
    3116 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    517

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by zi-zizou View Post


    One of the biggest risks for females (more so than men) is that they get desperate to find attachment that they end up marrying a dud and realise a bit too late.
    It used to be the case ,now times have changed ,lot of online advice ,more opportunities and learning resources has led to a reduction.
    Think marriage was seen as a an alrternate way to learn the deen ,so you become solely dependant on your husbands knowledge and lifestyle

    Youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYk...dE4pHzSid7Lr0w

    **** Smiling won't cost you now is it ****

    Zawjati ,“Uhibbuki mithla mâ antę” “Uhibbuki kaifamâ kunteee”“Wa mahmâ kâna mahma sâra”

  20. #59
    Odan muzzybee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    12,134
    Mentioned
    368 Post(s)
    Quoted
    3116 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    517

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rifqah View Post
    I only know of one sister who was drawn to the extremist side of Islam and she moved away from the UK in search of something she couldn't find here.

    We saw things differently even though we wanted the same thing, to affect change. Mine was always internal and hers external. We had many long discussions about it and how black and white her thinking was as opposed to my various shades of grey (depending on the variables of any given situation).

    As a convert myself, there's a search for certainly which draws you to a more literal approach of Islam. I was blessed Alhamdulillah, to have a caring Muslim warn me against this early on and I've not forgotten their advice.

    Never be apprehensive to warn converts about pitfalls and dangers, I welcome any helpful advice no matter how many people say the same thing and I'm sure others would too Inshallah
    Who you talk to or trust their word ,dont you think is the one that could lead to possibly siding or taking an extreme view.
    For example your advisor happens to be a shia lets say and then you tend to begin probably hating sunnis.
    But of course I understand you got to talk to someone and its probably always a close friend or colleague etc.
    This is an extreme example but sometimes it can be confusing right to know where to go for knowledge.

    How do you overcome a situation like this.

    We pray Allah swt keeps us all in the straight path ameen.

    Forgive me if it is too personal question..A generalistic answer probably is best
    Last edited by muzzybee; 20-05-17 at 02:09 AM.

    Youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYk...dE4pHzSid7Lr0w

    **** Smiling won't cost you now is it ****

    Zawjati ,“Uhibbuki mithla mâ antę” “Uhibbuki kaifamâ kunteee”“Wa mahmâ kâna mahma sâra”

  21. #60
    Odan .khayriyyah.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    1,688
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1368 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    126

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cptn._.Mario View Post
    I wonder why the reverts go after the extremists though. As non muslims before, they should know better about the nutjobs around.
    Quote Originally Posted by itsgiise View Post
    Perhaps you can give insight into this then. I've always been curious about those attracted to those extremist( don't think we should call it this, they plain wrong).
    How do they rationalise what these groups are doing to innocent people, let alone the horrific things they do to other innocent muslims ?
    How do they look past these things when they join these groups.
    Well in my case, I did not get involved with them because I was "drawn" to them. I was scared of them in the beginning. They would quote text from the Quran and Sunnah to justify their views so that is what caused me to end up with that kind of crowd. They just happened to be the only ones giving dawah on the platforms I used.
    Last edited by .khayriyyah.; 20-05-17 at 02:19 AM.

  22. #61
    Odan Gingerbeardman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    8,655
    Mentioned
    263 Post(s)
    Quoted
    3618 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    311

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzybee View Post
    This statement realy got me thinking.Specially being drawn to extremes in deen.

    @Gingerbeardman you are a revert and very active in dawah.
    How does one handle this situation.
    Jazakallahu khairan for the complement, but for myself I consider myself middlingly committed to the field of Dawah, there are plenty of people, non-Sheikhs, who I look upto and see doing a much better job than myself who I aspire to match one day.

    On your questions...
    For example is a forum good idea for a revert
    Where do they go to learn the deen.
    Reverts face the same problems as everyone else in learning the deen, just more pronounced because at first we lack enough knowledge of the community to be able to navigate, tell the good from the bad. There are many different interpretations of even how to tell this good from bad, we lack any grounding in the beginning.

    So the best place to learn the deen is at the feet of a scholar, in a traditional manner, if not a scholar, a student of knowledge, if not then at least a person with a good basic grounding in the deen, according to the authentic aqeedah, the correct manhaj, who you can trust to impart information, be open to listening to others points of view and not just preaching, and being of upstanding trustworthy character.

    Are forums good? well no, not according to the above criteria, however they are often the least bad option for many reverts given the lack of chances to learn otherwise and reverts do need to learn, learn quickly and act upon it whilst they still have that initial zeal for the deen, that post shahadah after-glow of emaan.

    Forums such as ummah forum at least relatively open, in allowing people to put questions, or just their point of view across and allows new Muslims to see their are many different view points, but can at times come across as overwhelming and confusing.

    What can born muslims learn from reverts and vice versa.
    Reverts need culturing in the deen, to soak up the culture of the deen, not just the knowledge. From regular Muslims, we can pick up that generic culture, which goes across all sections of the Muslim community, more or less, whilst at the same time I would hope not assimilating totally into any one part of it.

    I found living in areas with a wider range of different Muslim cultures to be most beneficial in looking at different peoples and comparing them. Seeing some had one element of the sunnah in their culture, whilst perhaps falling short or even missing another part.

    Living in an area where only one section of the Muslim community is present can cause all sorts of problems for reverts and a lack of balance between culture and deen, met my fair share of reverts who have confused indo-pak culture for traditionalism, or arab culture for the salafi manhaj.

    For non-reverts, I hope from us you can pick up a curious, questioning nature which brought many of us to the deen in the first place, not to accept things just because you are told it is so in terms of your own culture or even aspects of the deen which are taught by rote and are often wrong.



    What are the risks for reverts.
    Groupism, or Sheikh worship is a big problem for many reverts. Strange given we question, question, question in our former life before coming to the deen many reverts, myself included at the beginning of my life in Islam fall into hizbiyya, or blind following of a Sheikh. It could be the certainty which is presented is appealing to someone in such a flux of emotions and ideas. The deen offers many different flavours and it can be very confusing at first.

    Assimilation into one section of the Muslim community culturally is another problem I've already talked about above.

    Isolation is however one of the biggest dangers a new revert will face. Being cut off from friends and often even family, whilst not being able to build up a strong connection to the Muslim community either because of the revert not having the personal skills, inclination to reach out, or else the hand of friendship / brotherhood just not being held out by the existing Muslim community around them.

    The lone sheep is truly targeted by the wolves and lone reverts often fall prey to shaitan, fall into sins, innovations, even kufr, as well as being targetting by the more cult-like elements of the Muslim community.

    Another big risk, and one that many reverts fall into is thinking they know best, that they somehow come into the deen clean of culture, and so able to differentiate haqq from batil from day one, a problem not helped by so many Muslims repeating this lie to them at every opportunity so that you start to think you really are truly special. So reverts putting themselves on a pedestal, or being put on by others.

    These reverts will often come up with modernist, or just plain weird interpretations of the deen, and because they think they know best will tell anyone and everyone about them but really they're just mixing their culture with Islam, same as anyone else.


    How to approach reverts for marriage.
    Errhh ok, until they are more grounded in the deen YOU DON'T.

    Reverts really shouldn't be getting married early on unless there is a pressing need, it's best to wait a year or two at least and reverts getting 'hit on' is a big problem we face from the pre-existing Muslims, yes even brothers get this problem not just sisters.

    Otherwise, once they've got that grounding in the deen, it's the same as everyone else really. If a sister you ask about her, find out her wali's details and contact through the wali.
    If a revert brother a sister is interested in, get your wali to speak to him.

    Whatever you do, don't go around the normal rules, which many reverts may not be familiar with, or may be a bit blase about following, these rules around courtship are there for everyone's protection and reverts need it more than most.
    Last edited by Gingerbeardman; 20-05-17 at 02:40 AM.
    FOLLOW THE NEW BLOG - GINGERBEARDMAN - Muslim, father, husband, writer, defender of ginger rights!

    www.facebook.com/outreach4Islam - Outreach4Islam have been working together in Leicester, calling the not yet Muslims to Islam since 2006.

  23. #62
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    165
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Quoted
    97 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by itsgiise View Post
    In the town i grew up they used to match reverts with arabs or other ethnicities. But there has come a lot of problems and divorces from being coming from two different cultures.
    Now a days the imam actually makes a point of saying people reverts should try to marry other reverts. In my country it would be danish marrying other danes. Which i agree with.
    I heard in a study of intercultural marriages that the marriages fail 99%+ of the time unless the woman moves to the countryear of the man. I am sure there is anecdotes that contradict that, this was a study inside Europe

  24. #63
    Member The Grave,'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    94
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    66 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Islam has become a trend.. People converting to Islam is not what it was like 20yrs ago.

  25. #64
    Odan Gingerbeardman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    8,655
    Mentioned
    263 Post(s)
    Quoted
    3618 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    311

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Kamel View Post


    There is something truly wrong with this thread. Why do Muslims feel compelled to judge and then manipulate reverts?

    Why aren't you compelled to judge and then deal with the hypocrites and apostates who are destroying Islam and misguiding Muslims?

    It seems the attention is misdirected.


    The two are not mutually exclusive, I've met many reverts who promote ridda in one form of another and perhaps people just don't want to see reverts fall into the same traps everyone else has already.
    FOLLOW THE NEW BLOG - GINGERBEARDMAN - Muslim, father, husband, writer, defender of ginger rights!

    www.facebook.com/outreach4Islam - Outreach4Islam have been working together in Leicester, calling the not yet Muslims to Islam since 2006.

  26. #65
    Odan Gingerbeardman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    8,655
    Mentioned
    263 Post(s)
    Quoted
    3618 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    311

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by zi-zizou View Post


    One of the biggest risks for females (more so than men) is that they get desperate to find attachment that they end up marrying a dud and realise a bit too late.
    The same problem for male reverts. There is a reason why divorce is such a big problem for reverts, it's usually because they marry someone who is just not suitable in terms of deen and character or are pushed into marriage by people who either don't know better, or don't have their best interests at heart.

    I've stopped mentioning female shahadah's in some brother's company, just to avoid the instantaneous inquiries about marriage, they tend to be otherwise become quite offended by my rather blunt replies as to why they are being so dumb in even think this way.
    FOLLOW THE NEW BLOG - GINGERBEARDMAN - Muslim, father, husband, writer, defender of ginger rights!

    www.facebook.com/outreach4Islam - Outreach4Islam have been working together in Leicester, calling the not yet Muslims to Islam since 2006.

  27. #66
    Odan Gingerbeardman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    8,655
    Mentioned
    263 Post(s)
    Quoted
    3618 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    311

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicen View Post
    That's the point.

    I think religious muslim men of all sects- whether salafi or barelwi- tend not to have a very positive view of women. I know some will disagree with this but that's just my opinion.

    But yes when it comes to "fitnah caused by women" some men do go completely overboard. I mean when you have men saying that emojis cause them fitnah and female users using coloured fonts also causes fitnah. My jaw dropped like 2 storeys(not to be taken literally) seeing that. Nuts.
    People when they are new to practicing tend to concentrate on the more visual, physical aspects of the deen no matter which group they are from. Sometimes they never move past that.

    btw. I do agree with the issue of using certain emojis between genders. Men and women when discussing the deen should avoid emotional language, obviously emojis when used excessively can fall into this.
    FOLLOW THE NEW BLOG - GINGERBEARDMAN - Muslim, father, husband, writer, defender of ginger rights!

    www.facebook.com/outreach4Islam - Outreach4Islam have been working together in Leicester, calling the not yet Muslims to Islam since 2006.

  28. #67
    Odan Gingerbeardman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    8,655
    Mentioned
    263 Post(s)
    Quoted
    3618 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    311

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Umm Fatimah View Post
    I would also add that I disagree about reverts having more cultural baggage. Maybe it is just my community where we don't have much of a my-islam-is-more-authentic-than-yours type of divide between masaajid etc, but reverts are generally fairly middle class, educated and mentally stable. They are also from the same geographical area, so I suppose I don't have much to compare it with.
    Maybe you just have a good bunch where you are but...

    In my experience I tend to find middle class reverts to be fall most into this problem, of having cultural baggage. Not all, but certainly more often than not it's an issue for them.

    I also find many of them somewhat stuck-up, looking down on reverts who don't come from an overprivileged background, as well as many elements of the culture of existing sections of the Muslim community, even aspects of Islam when it doesn't fit into their pre-existing ideas which they often bring with them into Islam.

    I am not saying people who come from an underprivileged background don't have these problems, just I don't see it as much. I certainly never heard a group of them whining for over an hour about how they are always expected to eat curry or kebabs at Muslim events and could we just have roast beef dinner and why won't 'these people' integrate more into the British culture.

    There are self-help groups within reverts dominated by these sort of cultural snobs I keep away from on health grounds, to keep my blood from boiling after having dealt with them too often in the past.
    Last edited by Gingerbeardman; 20-05-17 at 03:29 AM.
    FOLLOW THE NEW BLOG - GINGERBEARDMAN - Muslim, father, husband, writer, defender of ginger rights!

    www.facebook.com/outreach4Islam - Outreach4Islam have been working together in Leicester, calling the not yet Muslims to Islam since 2006.

  29. #68
    Odan Gingerbeardman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    8,655
    Mentioned
    263 Post(s)
    Quoted
    3618 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    311

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by itsgiise View Post
    In the town i grew up they used to match reverts with arabs or other ethnicities. But there has come a lot of problems and divorces from being coming from two different cultures.
    Now a days the imam actually makes a point of saying people reverts should try to marry other reverts. In my country it would be danish marrying other danes. Which i agree with.
    It has it's plus and minus points. Marrying another revert can be great as it means you don't have that culture clash straight off which is always difficult in interracial marriages, made even more difficult when one party is new to Islam.

    However I can never stress enough how much a revert can learn from a good Muslim spouse and wider family, the little things you just cannot pick up in books, or 100 study circles.

    Yes there is more risk, especially when reverts are paired up with totally inappropriate matches by ignorant, cultural imams, but in general I tend to think the risk is worth it if they are careful and have appropriate safeguards in place.
    Last edited by Gingerbeardman; 20-05-17 at 03:35 AM.
    FOLLOW THE NEW BLOG - GINGERBEARDMAN - Muslim, father, husband, writer, defender of ginger rights!

    www.facebook.com/outreach4Islam - Outreach4Islam have been working together in Leicester, calling the not yet Muslims to Islam since 2006.

  30. #69
    Odan Gingerbeardman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    8,655
    Mentioned
    263 Post(s)
    Quoted
    3618 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    311

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuSammy View Post
    I heard in a study of intercultural marriages that the marriages fail 99%+ of the time unless the woman moves to the countryear of the man. I am sure there is anecdotes that contradict that, this was a study inside Europe
    You want to produce your scientific study you heard of with this devastating and I am sure accurate statistic?
    Because my anecdotal personal experience built up over 15 years of Islam and looking after reverts says that is male cow poo.
    Last edited by Gingerbeardman; 20-05-17 at 03:39 AM.
    FOLLOW THE NEW BLOG - GINGERBEARDMAN - Muslim, father, husband, writer, defender of ginger rights!

    www.facebook.com/outreach4Islam - Outreach4Islam have been working together in Leicester, calling the not yet Muslims to Islam since 2006.

  31. #70
    061116 Rifqah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    2,484
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1812 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    259

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzybee View Post
    @Rifqah , @aynina how did you figure how to learn the different aspects of deen.
    I presume internet was a major part of your study.
    I do a variety of online searching, buying a book or two (I've actually bought quite a few now) and asking the imam at the masjid. There's a sister that organises the other sisters at the masjid and I have her number if I need information too.

    I ask here and I ask Abu Musa'ab too.

    يعلم ما كان و ما يكون و ما لم يكن إذا كان كيف يكون

  32. #71
    -.-" Cptn._.Mario's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    3,858
    Mentioned
    217 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1944 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    451

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by .khayriyyah. View Post
    Well in my case, I did not get involved with them because I was "drawn" to them. I was scared of them in the beginning. They would quote text from the Quran and Sunnah to justify their views so that is what caused me to end up with that kind of crowd. They just happened to be the only ones giving dawah on the platforms I used.
    Any regrets ending up with that kind of crowd? for sharing
    ┳┻|
    ┻┳|•.•) Hello, Assalamu Alaikum! Check out this topic! #makethechanges
    ┳┻|⊂ノ
    ┻┳|
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...adan-Authentic

  33. #72
    -.-" Cptn._.Mario's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    3,858
    Mentioned
    217 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1944 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    451

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicen View Post
    That's the point.

    I think religious muslim men of all sects- whether salafi or barelwi- tend not to have a very positive view of women. I know some will disagree with this but that's just my opinion.

    But yes when it comes to "fitnah caused by women" some men do go completely overboard. I mean when you have men saying that emojis cause them fitnah and female users using coloured fonts also causes fitnah. My jaw dropped like 2 storeys(not to be taken literally) seeing that. Nuts.
    yea nuts.
    ┳┻|
    ┻┳|•.•) Hello, Assalamu Alaikum! Check out this topic! #makethechanges
    ┳┻|⊂ノ
    ┻┳|
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...adan-Authentic

  34. #73
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Salam wa alaykom,
    I'm a revert myself. Been in for two years. And yeah, I am still somewhat drawn to the super-salafi sects. But more than that, besides any polemic views on 'Aqeedah or sectarianism or anything like that, there's certain responsibilities that you're not ready for. It was right before my 19th birthday when I reverted. I wasn't ready to pray 5 times a day. I wasn't ready for the entire culture-shock that came with everything.
    I don't know what the statement "where transgressions are covered up for the benefit of the wider group" really means, could someone please clarify that?
    Also, how do I get a private message out to the moderators? And how do I join a new Muslims' group on this site??? Sorry never really ever posted to a forum before lol

  35. #74
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    165
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Quoted
    97 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gingerbeardman View Post
    You want to produce your scientific study you heard of with this devastating and I am sure accurate statistic?
    Because my anecdotal personal experience built up over 15 years of Islam and looking after reverts says that is male cow poo.
    This quote was very much in a non-Muslim context, so should be taken with a grain of salt. I believe the source for it was something my non Muslim (German) ex was told in an Erasmus European Union exchange program orientation. Certainly as a non-Muslim I did find there to be some truth in this, which is why I mentioned it here. Communication is very difficult even between a married couple from the same culture, and different cultures exacerbates this, I say this as a veteran of two inter cultural long term relationships.

    In my own experience as a Muslim living with my wife in Egypt, Islam has the potential to overcome a lot of these cultural boundaries. I guess I am passionate enough about Islam that I don't really need to have anything else in common with someone in order to have a good bond with them.

    People are very hesitant though in these very old societies to marry outside even of their own tribes or families, and I do believe there is wisdom behind this, but at this point I think the harm outweighs the benefit.

  36. #75
    061116 Rifqah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    2,484
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1812 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    259

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzybee View Post
    Who you talk to or trust their word ,dont you think is the one that could lead to possibly siding or taking an extreme view.
    For example your advisor happens to be a shia lets say and then you tend to begin probably hating sunnis.
    But of course I understand you got to talk to someone and its probably always a close friend or colleague etc.
    This is an extreme example but sometimes it can be confusing right to know where to go for knowledge.

    How do you overcome a situation like this.

    We pray Allah swt keeps us all in the straight path ameen.

    Forgive me if it is too personal question..A generalistic answer probably is best
    Yes I agree, you have no idea of the views people have as you get to know them at the masjid, as you don't know what you don't know. You don't know Islam and you don't know who you're being friendly with either.

    I think this is what influenced the sister I mentioned initially. She got into a group of sisters whose were intolerant and would warn her against speaking to anyone almost. She attended meetings with them and wouldn't really say what about but I had a bad feeling the more I heard her language change from kindness and tolerance to judgemental and harsh.

    How do I overcome learning incorrectly? Fortunately I have some good people who have made themselves available to me to ask anything I need Alhamdulillah and also it's not quite so easy to integrate even when you go to classes as people leave the class early, busy lives, picking up children or a little wary of a newcomer (for similar reasons probably). There's a certain safety in that too because making friends is often a slow process which gives you time to learn about the various pitfalls in deen.

    It can be isolating, especially if your family are not Muslim but places like this are really helpful too as if people read your posts that sound a little 'off' I usually get a nudge through a rep or two, letting me know and then an explanation of what is correct. Really helpful and I do really appreciate those who do this.

    يعلم ما كان و ما يكون و ما لم يكن إذا كان كيف يكون

  37. #76

    Account Disabled

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    8,118
    Mentioned
    238 Post(s)
    Quoted
    6017 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Another thing that hasn't been mentioned here is that sometimes converts try to practice every non-fard practices they hear of and what happens is that they burn out and leave Islam altogether.

    And at a time when they are only beginning to get to grips with praying twice or thrice a day, it doesn't help when their fellow muslims tell them:

    Badar, you need to grow 10-feet beard.

    Badar, you need to read that PDF I gave you to refute Sufis and other mushriks.

    Badar, you need to spend more time with Shaykh ibn X,Y,Z.

    Badar, you need to know all the evil sects that are present and put them down.

    Badar, you don't recite this dua regularly? You're gonna go to hell badar.

    Badar, you need to fast on alternative days like Daud(S), if you don't it means Shaytan is whispering to you and there's something wrong with your iman.


    Seriously, converts need to take it easy and chill and take things one step at a time. You really don't wanna crash and burn.

  38. #77
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    165
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Quoted
    97 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    As for the appeal of the 'super salafis' I think it is that they bring the best proofs. I had the same experience of having a sheikh at the beginning who was actually sufi, and wasting a lot of time because he taught me bogus narrations which caused me to question all of the authentic narrations he taught me.

    Also, reading about the reward of jihad and the concept that there will be a group fighting on the truth until the last day naturally made me want to participate in jihad. Honestly, I don't know how any sincere Muslim could not want to participate in jihad knowing the rewards, and as the authentic narration goes, who dies without having had the sincere intention to participate in a battle dies on a branch of hypocrisy. As it stands, it is primarily salafi groups that are actually, right or wrong, trying to obey Allah with regards to jihad. If there were sufi groups actually fighting on behalf of our oppressed brothers and sisters I would gladly get a tasbih with a thousand beads and start focusing on tasawuf, but how miserable the sufi groups are politically really repels me from them, which pointed me towards firm belief in the concept that all bid'ah (innovation) is best avoided. With deviation, the longer a group (or individual, for that matter) holds onto it, the further they get from the right course... many sufi groups were much better in the past and have steadily gotten worse.

    Of course as a disclaimer just speaking the truth has to suffice as a form of jihad, but I have the impression that doing so pushes one away from the mushrikin and towards the believers, and hopefully one day being able to stand up for the rights of the oppressed and make Allah's word the highest... in a manner that is fully compliant with laws in the local jurisdiction. May Allah guide and protect all who have this sincere wish and facilitate them on the right path and right methodology.

  39. #78
    SUFI HANAFI
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    42,062
    Mentioned
    475 Post(s)
    Quoted
    8550 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    793

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicen View Post
    Another thing that hasn't been mentioned here is that sometimes converts try to practice every non-fard practices they hear of and what happens is that they burn out and leave Islam altogether...
    As opposed to 'non-converts' who barely do the fard, have all sorts of ideas and practices far from Islam, and still consider themselves to be not only Muslim but Sunni.

  40. #79

    Account Disabled

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    8,118
    Mentioned
    238 Post(s)
    Quoted
    6017 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
    As opposed to 'non-converts' who barely do the fard, have all sorts of ideas and practices far from Islam, and still consider themselves to be not only Muslim but Sunni.
    How is this relevant to what I said? Also who or what is a Sunni is not dependant on your personal opinions.

    Now then, 7 out of 10 converts leave Islam and the reasons I mentioned are very real and relevant.

    And I believe the people who love to place burden upon burden on new muslims themselves don't practice anything but can only give people orders. Seriously these people should fear for their own faith instead of giving new muslims orders like they are some sort of bell-boy.

  41. #80
    SUFI HANAFI
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    42,062
    Mentioned
    475 Post(s)
    Quoted
    8550 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    793

    Re: Reverts - A discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicen View Post
    How is this relevant to what I said?...
    A few reasons.

    You argued that striving to follow the Sunnah is somehow 'bad' due to being over-whelmed and ending up burning out and crashing. That is not only backwards thinking, it has nothing to with converts. Look at the flip-side - 'non-converts' barely do the fard let alone the sunnah yet they consider themselves to be Sunni. The point is that straying off the path has nothing to do with being a convert as 'non-converts' are just as likely to deviate.

    ...Also who or what is a Sunni is not dependant on your personal opinions.
    My point exactly. Calling yourself or anyone else a 'Sunni' is a personal opinion that is up for debate.

    Now then, 7 out of 10 converts leave Islam and the reasons I mentioned are very real and relevant.
    I don't know where you pulled that stat from but it's irrelevant when you take into account the point about 'non-converts'. They are just as likely to leave Islam - even if they call themselves Muslim.

    ...And I believe the people who love to place burden upon burden on new muslims themselves don't practice anything but can only give people orders. Seriously these people should fear for their own faith instead of giving new muslims orders like they are some sort of bell-boy.
    Whilst this may be true in rare cases, it's mostly a 'bogeyman' (straw man) fantasy.

 

 

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:41 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2
Copyright © 2017 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.2.7 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Skin By: PurevB.com

MPADC.com Islamic Web Hosting | Muslim Ad Network | Islamic Nasheeds | Islamic Mobile App Developement Android & iPhone | Islamic Web Hosting : Muslim Designers : Labbayk Nasheeds : silk route jilbab: Hijab: : Web Islamic Newsletter: Islamic Web Hosting

Students of Arabic Forum | Hijab Shop