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    Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    I'm probably going to get some hate for this but these things have been eating away at me for quite some time and no matter how hard I try I cannot seem to justify them.


    Slavery

    Slavery was rampant well before Islam came about and there were no rights for slaves or rules in place governing how slaves were treated. With the introduction of Islam this was changed and rights were given to slaves and slavery was brought under control.

    However my concern is Allah is all merciful and compassionate so why not just command for slavery to be abolished all together? We are humans and today we acknowledge slavery is one of the greatest tragedies of mankind but for an all merciful loving God, this would have been common sense. What planet do we live on where one human life can be owned by someone else? It would have been much more merciful to simply command for the release of all slaves and the abolition of slavery.

    Then there is rape of those slaves. Something I have denied for the longest time but it is blatantly obvious that sex with your slave is permitted. For those of you who've actually read the Quran and hadiths you will know it refers to slaves as "those that your right hand possess" meaning those that you own.

    Allah has permitted intimacy with a slave woman if the man owns her. This is not regarded as adultery. Allah says, describing the believers (interpretation of the meaning): “those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts, from illegal sexual acts) Except from their wives or (the slaves) that their right hands possess, for then, they are free from blame” [al-Mu’minoon 23:5]

    Those who do not believe

    The Quran makes it very clear that those who do not believe in Allah and his messenger Muhammad s.a.w will not be permitted to enter heaven and will spend eternity in hell*

    I think every human on the planet would agree that we cannot choose what we believe, it's impossible! Belief in something is a naturally occurring process that cannot be forced. If I ask you to genuinely believe a square is a circle or there is life on the Moon, you cannot. Therefore it seems incredibly strange and harsh for Allah to condemn a person to an eternity of hell simply because they were unable to believe in him. Aliens is a great example, aside from life on Earth there is literally 0 evidence that life exists elsewhere in the universe but I absolutely believe there is life on other planets, I don't choose to believe this, it's just something I believe. I cannot explain it.

    It would be a bit different if someone did genuinely believe but just decided not to follow his command. Then there is the issue of qadar... Allah has already written our path long before we were even born and it is literally set in stone. There are some disagreements about this but the underlining principle still stands, Allah swt already knows every outcome to every action before the action has even started, therefore it would seem ludicrous to create a person knowing full well they will end up in hell, they never even had a chance.

    *Those who die before puberty and those who do not have the mental capacity to learn Islam or those who have been unable to access Islam are automatically granted heaven. (some scholars differ on this).

    Islam before Islam

    As the creator of all things, why not give mankind Islam at the earliest possible time? Humans have been around for a hell of a long time and so why not give all those people Islam so they too can live the way Allah knew was the perfect way for humans to live? In fact the word "Allah" is not found anywhere in the ancient texts meaning there wasn't even an attempt to guide these people.

    Why start guiding humanity so late into their existence?

    I also have to question how Islam was delivered. Delivery by one prophet is probably the single worst way a message for all of humanity could possibly be delivered. Humans are notoriously unreliable and always have hidden agendas or forgetful memories so why put the entire fate of mankind's eternal future in the hands of one prophet in 1 corner of the world? It seems implausible that this delivery method would work.

    I am not a God but I can think of a dozen much more effective ways to guarantee that as many humans as possible enter my paradise.

    Dua

    Dua is a very important part of Islam and it is not the same as prayer. When we make Dua we are directly asking Allah for his help, whether it be for the ending of suffering, to pass an exam, to have a safe journey or to grant us patience. It can be for anything really.

    The problem is our paths are already outlined and written for us, to make Dua asking Allah to change his mind seems not only impossible but a complete waste of time. Allah is infallible so to suggest that we can make him change his mind by asking him seems silly.

    Whether I pass that exam or the war in Syria ends tomorrow was written and planned by the best of planners, an infallible omniscient God so no matter how much Dua we make, God isn't going to change his mind, because that would mean that he was wrong in his plan for you, or the world for that matter.

    If I revise and study the best I can and fail then that is because that is what God planned for me, no amount of Dua would have changed that because again that would mean his plan was subject to change and God does not change his mind. He is infallible!




    Yes I am still Muslim, yes I still believe in Allah and Islam. This is me simply raising some concerns that I have buried and ignored for a long time and I just wanted to vent them out on the internet because I don't have anywhere else to do so. I understand that some Muslims might read this and think negatively of me but we should be able to debate sensitive topics and question things which we don't fully comprehend in the hopes of gaining a better understanding.



    Disclaimer: These are my opinions and concerns and I obviously do not speak for any other Muslim or claim that my understanding of Islam is correct.
    I beg my parents for money

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    I have seen you on student room before and hence it is no surprise to see you post these stuff. I am not thrashing you but your questions are not a surprise judging by your posting habits there.

    Anyhow you raised a few things that are on merit and some that are completely irrelevant.

    Issues like slavery have been discussed an infinitum to death. There are a lot of videos and tafsirs upon it. Since you are an A level student I expect you to go and do your research on that one.

    The other stuff like islam before islam is frankly a vast of time and shows how low you are thinking. Who cares about islam before islam? And who said Allah didn't guide before islam? Do even know how many prophets were sent? Thousands were sent. We know the popular ones in the quran but many have been sent? Does that sound like a God who didn't care? Seriously this is basic Islamic knowledge

    As for belief. everyone who does not believe in islam and is able bodied meaning he/she not insane and heard the message is destined for Jahannam. That is the word of Allah. You best get used to it. Those who never heard of Allah will be judged differently. Allah is not cruel. But those who heard about it? Yes. Deal with it.
    when Allah says obey Allah and obey his messenger that means that. There is no space for bububu this is what I believe in and life on other planets and aliens. Seriously. You have a problem with your aqeedah. Get it fixed.

    As for dua. Again, you are clueless. Dua is a powerful form of worship. Dua can change your destiny and qadr. How bout that? Imagine you are destined to die in a cave like those famous three men stuck in it and because of dua they were saved. So how pathetic do you sound when you say dua is a waste of time..

    Seriously, I fear for your aqeedah if you have issues with even accepting the word of Allah. You are literally nothing. A speck. In a planet which is a speck in the solar system. Allah says, the creation of the heavens and the earth is greater than that of you and me. And you have the audacity to question his commands.

    I don't know if this is a teenage phase you are going through, rebellion or something far more serious. But you have issues and no matter how nicely you conceal it the ugliness is there.

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Dinobot View Post
    I have seen you on student room before and hence it is no surprise to see you post these stuff. I am not thrashing you but your questions are not a surprise judging by your posting habits there.

    Anyhow you raised a few things that are on merit and some that are completely irrelevant.
    What exactly did she post there?
    Keep calm and don't hate the crescent.

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Dinobot View Post
    I have seen you on student room before and hence it is no surprise to see you post these stuff. I am not thrashing you but your questions are not a surprise judging by your posting habits there.

    Anyhow you raised a few things that are on merit and some that are completely irrelevant.

    Issues like slavery have been discussed an infinitum to death. There are a lot of videos and tafsirs upon it. Since you are an A level student I expect you to go and do your research on that one.

    The other stuff like islam before islam is frankly a vast of time and shows how low you are thinking. Who cares about islam before islam? And who said Allah didn't guide before islam? Do even know how many prophets were sent? Thousands were sent. We know the popular ones in the quran but many have been sent? Does that sound like a God who didn't care? Seriously this is basic Islamic knowledge

    As for belief. everyone who does not believe in islam and is able bodied meaning he/she not insane and heard the message is destined for Jahannam. That is the word of Allah. You best get used to it. Those who never heard of Allah will be judged differently. Allah is not cruel. But those who heard about it? Yes. Deal with it.
    when Allah says obey Allah and obey his messenger that means that. There is no space for bububu this is what I believe in and life on other planets and aliens. Seriously. You have a problem with your aqeedah. Get it fixed.

    As for dua. Again, you are clueless. Dua is a powerful form of worship. Dua can change your destiny and qadr. How bout that? Imagine you are destined to die in a cave like those famous three men stuck in it and because of dua they were saved. So how pathetic do you sound when you say dua is a waste of time..

    Seriously, I fear for your aqeedah if you have issues with even accepting the word of Allah. You are literally nothing. A speck. In a planet which is a speck in the solar system. Allah says, the creation of the heavens and the earth is greater than that of you and me. And you have the audacity to question his commands.

    I don't know if this is a teenage phase you are going through, rebellion or something far more serious. But you have issues and no matter how nicely you conceal it the ugliness is there.


    I posted here for understanding, not a thrashing... And what I post on some other forum is non of your concern. I had these doubts long before I posted to any forum, it's just now I want to finally understand these doubts and concerns I have.

    I am not perfect and I never claimed to be but at this moment in time I am struggling to comprehend and accept this problems I outlined, they may not be problems to you but to me they are and I would appreciate you not judging me so much and offer some logical counter arguments and to reassure me somehow.

    I still believe in Allah, his messenger s.a.w and Islam. I just have some doubts about certain aspects, doesn't every Muslim at some point experience lack of iman?
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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AishaGirl View Post
    I posted here for understanding, not a thrashing... And what I post on some other forum is non of your concern. I had these doubts long before I posted to any forum, it's just now I want to finally understand these doubts and concerns I have.

    I am not perfect and I never claimed to be but at this moment in time I am struggling to comprehend and accept this problems I outlined, they may not be problems to you but to me they are and I would appreciate you not judging me so much and offer some logical counter arguments and to reassure me somehow.

    I still believe in Allah, his messenger s.a.w and Islam. I just have some doubts about certain aspects, doesn't every Muslim at some point experience lack of iman?
    Your doubts and your posting habits are not mutually exclusive to each other. But that's another topic.

    You want logical answers to articles of faith. What logical answer one can give when Allah told Ibrahim to sacrifice Ishmael? I mean what would you have done if you were in Ibrahim's position? Iman is a living thing within people. Sometimes it goes up and down.

    But in your case you have an issue with accepting Allah's commandments. That's not an iman problem. that's an aqeedah problem. that's much worse. Because it's the path one takes before one becomes a fasiq and then inevitably to leaving religion all together.

    Let me explain to you this way. When the person's iman goes down, they might find it difficult to pray on time or even pray regularly. They might not read their quran. That is common within people. But the core remains.

    You on the other hand are having issues accepting commands. Issues with accepting core articles like why should people enter jahannam for a lack of belief. That's not an iman problem. That's an aqeedah problem. You have bigger problems. You do not believe in Allah and his messenger no matter how much you claim. To believe in them you need to obey them without questions. Without hesitations. Without worrying about why this Is like this or like that. Can you do that? Can you be Ibrahim as? Can you follow the ayah of the quran which says ''O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger''

    If you can't then no amount of explanations is going to help

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    Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Why are you subjecting Allah and Islam to a western morality system? This is your fatal flaw. Allah is the source of right and wrong, you do not judge what He does based on a morality system of man.

    You have not submitted to Allah truly. That or you do not truly believe in the Quran and the Rasul()

    If you believe the Quran to be revelation from Allah then that is it. You submit to Allah and accept that He knows better than you and that He does as He pleases.
    Last edited by Stoic Believer; 24-04-17 at 05:02 PM.

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    Why are you subjecting Allah and Islam to a western morality system? This is your fatal flaw. Allah is the source of right and wrong, you do not judge what He does based on a morality system of man.

    You have not submitted to Allah truly. That or you do not truly believe in the Quran and the Rasul()

    If you believe the Quran to be revelation from Allah then that is it. You submit to Allah and accept that He knows better than you and that He does as He pleases.

    I'm not choosing to believe this... I just can't help what I believe.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dinobot View Post
    But in your case you have an issue with accepting Allah's commandments. That's not an iman problem. that's an aqeedah problem. that's much worse. Because it's the path one takes before one becomes a fasiq and then inevitably to leaving religion all together.
    So how do I fix it? What can I do?
    I beg my parents for money

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AishaGirl View Post
    I'm probably going to get some hate for this but these things have been eating away at me for quite some time and no matter how hard I try I cannot seem to justify them.


    Slavery (Part 1)

    Slavery was rampant well before Islam came about and there were no rights for slaves or rules in place governing how slaves were treated. With the introduction of Islam this was changed and rights were given to slaves and slavery was brought under control.

    However my concern is Allah is all merciful and compassionate so why not just command for slavery to be abolished all together? We are humans and today we acknowledge slavery is one of the greatest tragedies of mankind but for an all merciful loving God, this would have been common sense. What planet do we live on where one human life can be owned by someone else? It would have been much more merciful to simply command for the release of all slaves and the abolition of slavery.

    Then there is rape of those slaves. Something I have denied for the longest time but it is blatantly obvious that sex with your slave is permitted. For those of you who've actually read the Quran and hadiths you will know it refers to slaves as "those that your right hand possess" meaning those that you own.

    Allah has permitted intimacy with a slave woman if the man owns her. This is not regarded as adultery. Allah says, describing the believers (interpretation of the meaning): “those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts, from illegal sexual acts) Except from their wives or (the slaves) that their right hands possess, for then, they are free from blame” [al-Mu’minoon 23:5]
    Well I don't know what you post in TSR but I was there for a few months and the amount of apostasy threads there.......well they've their marks and it might affect my answer.

    And most importantly, Islam is not a liberal religion. This is a fact. If you're influenced by western values and morals, you're kind of bound to have a problem with Islam and move towards disbelief. I'm sorry to say this but that's the truth.

    So I'm going to try and answer your question one-by-one.

    Slavery


    The institution of slavery was the single biggest drivers of Economy for around 3,000 years. Civilization- all the great wonders and monuments you see- were built by slaves. It is similar to the Banking sector today. If you bring down the banking sector, the entire economies of the world will immediately collapse. The same was the case for slavery until ofcourse machines came along. Let's make this clear, No slaves=No economy. Hence, what Islam could do was to improve conditions for the slaves as shown by hadiths and meanwhile gradually make slavery redundant, which is a more practical solution.

    Now ofcourse, you could say why did Islam adhere to such worldly needs. The fact is unlike what liberal muslims or the other extremists like ISIS claims - Islam is a very pragmatic and practical religion, it has to deal with the realities of the world not pander to fantasies and Disney Land ideologies.

    Slavery itself exists as a result of Wars, if you defeat another people, you will capture their soldiers and civilian populace. For the people of the Book, they are just put under taxation. It was the idolators who were given the chance to accept Islam or accept slavery.

    Annemarie Schimmel, Islam: An Introduction

    Slavery was not abolished by the Koran, but believers are constantly admonished to treat their slaves well. In case of illness a slave has to be looked after and well cared for. To manumit [free] a slave is highly meritorious; the slave can ransom himself by paying some of the money he has earned while conducting his own business. Only children of slaves or non-Muslim prisoners of war can become slaves, never a freeborn Muslim; therefore slavery is theoretically doomed to disappear with the expansion of Islam. The entire history of Islam proves that slaves could occupy any office, and many former military slaves, usually recruited from among the Central Asian Turks, became military leaders and often even rulers as in eastern Iran, India (the Slave Dynasty of Delhi), and medieval Egypt (the Mamluks). Eunuchs too served in important capacities, not only as the guardians of the women’s quarters, but also in high administrative and military positions. — p. 67

    Roger Du Pasquier, Unveiling Islam


    To answer this question, it should first be remarked that Islam has tolerated slavery but has never approved of it, and that all its teachings and prescriptions in this regard lead to its alleviation as far as possible in the short term, and, in the longer term, conduce to its progressive suppression. To abolish it would have been impossible in a world in which it was generally practiced by all the states which bordered on the new Muslim empire, and in which the idea of challenging the principle itself had not occurred to anyone. It was the custom to enslave prisoners of war — when these were not simply massacred — and the Islamic state would have put itself at a grave disadvantage vis-a-vis its enemies had it not reciprocated to some extent. By guaranteeing them humane treatment, and various possibilities of subsequently releasing themselves, it ensured that a good number of combatants in the opposing armies preferred captivity at the hands of Muslims to death on the field of battle.
    Last edited by Spicen; 24-04-17 at 05:19 PM.
    Keep calm and don't hate the crescent.

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AishaGirl View Post
    So how do I fix it? What can I do?
    Let me give you an advice. You can either accept that the world is much more complex than your Westernized world view which is a load of fantasy. There are harsh realities in this world that you won't be able to comprehend without coming to realism and leaving western fantasies.

    Europeans have been lecturing muslims on humanism and yet they treat refugees worse than they treat their animals because of religion.
    Keep calm and don't hate the crescent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AishaGirl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    Why are you subjecting Allah and Islam to a western morality system? This is your fatal flaw. Allah is the source of right and wrong, you do not judge what He does based on a morality system of man.

    You have not submitted to Allah truly. That or you do not truly believe in the Quran and the Rasul()

    If you believe the Quran to be revelation from Allah then that is it. You submit to Allah and accept that He knows better than you and that He does as He pleases.

    I'm not choosing to believe this... I just can't help what I believe.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dinobot View Post
    But in your case you have an issue with accepting Allah's commandments. That's not an iman problem. that's an aqeedah problem. that's much worse. Because it's the path one takes before one becomes a fasiq and then inevitably to leaving religion all together.
    So how do I fix it? What can I do?
    I think you have been indoctrinated by Western values and principles of morality. Otherwise none of these issues would exist.

    Also you have a problem with your Tawheed. If you accept Allah as your Rabb, then you'd have no issue accepting that He is the Most Wise, and that what He decrees is the best.

    Finally, you may also be a victim of waswasa from the shaytann.

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    @Jenicca , @Meriadoc , @Fakhri @-qed-@ZeeshanParvez
    Perhaps you brothers and sisters have insight ?

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    I'm not too sure how to answer the OP.. I'll think about it and come back to that sister.. I know you posted before, and took a break and now your back again
    This is a side note about TSR.. I used to be part of that and just post on there, mainly the exams section but also about Islam too.. not everyone on TSR is bad.. I do have to admit a lot of people had a bad mentality towards Islam and Muslims.. but by no means, everyone. And it has many purposes i.e threads r.e university. exams etc.
    And with Him are the keys of the Ghayb (all that is hidden), none knows them but He. And He knows whatever there is in the land and in the sea; not a leaf falls, but He knows it. There is not a grain in the darkness of the earth nor anything fresh or dry, but is written in a Clear Record”
    [al-An’aam 6:59]

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Creamcake View Post
    I'm not too sure how to answer the OP.. I'll think about it and come back to that sister.. I know you posted before, and took a break and now your back again
    This is a side note about TSR.. I used to be part of that and just post on there, mainly the exams section but also about Islam too.. not everyone on TSR is bad.. I do have to admit a lot of people had a bad mentality towards Islam and Muslims.. but by no means, everyone. And it has many purposes i.e threads r.e university. exams etc.
    Edit: candyapple just made a tsr thread

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicen View Post
    Well I don't know what you post in TSR but I was there for a few months and the amount of apostasy threads there.......well they've their marks and it might affect my answer.

    And most importantly, Islam is not a liberal religion. This is a fact. If you're influenced by western values and morals, you're kind of bound to have a problem with Islam and move towards disbelief. I'm sorry to say this but that's the truth.

    So I'm going to try and answer your question one-by-one.

    Slavery


    The institution of slavery was the single biggest drivers of Economy for around 3,000 years. Civilization- all the great wonders and monuments you see- were built by slaves. It is similar to the Banking sector today. If you bring down the banking sector, the entire economies of the world will immediately collapse. The same was the case for slavery until ofcourse machines came along. Let's make this clear, No slaves=No economy. Hence, what Islam could do was to improve conditions for the slaves as shown by hadiths and meanwhile gradually make slavery redundant, which is a more practical solution.

    Now ofcourse, you could say why did Islam adhere to such worldly needs. The fact is unlike what liberal muslims or the other extremists like ISIS claims - Islam is a very pragmatic and practical religion, it has to deal with the realities of the world not pander to fantasies and Disney Land ideologies.

    Slavery itself exists as a result of Wars, if you defeat another people, you will capture their soldiers and civilian populace. For the people of the Book, they are just put under taxation. It was the idolators who were given the chance to accept Islam or accept slavery.

    Annemarie Schimmel, Islam: An Introduction

    Slavery was not abolished by the Koran, but believers are constantly admonished to treat their slaves well. In case of illness a slave has to be looked after and well cared for. To manumit [free] a slave is highly meritorious; the slave can ransom himself by paying some of the money he has earned while conducting his own business. Only children of slaves or non-Muslim prisoners of war can become slaves, never a freeborn Muslim; therefore slavery is theoretically doomed to disappear with the expansion of Islam. The entire history of Islam proves that slaves could occupy any office, and many former military slaves, usually recruited from among the Central Asian Turks, became military leaders and often even rulers as in eastern Iran, India (the Slave Dynasty of Delhi), and medieval Egypt (the Mamluks). Eunuchs too served in important capacities, not only as the guardians of the women’s quarters, but also in high administrative and military positions. — p. 67

    Roger Du Pasquier, Unveiling Islam


    To answer this question, it should first be remarked that Islam has tolerated slavery but has never approved of it, and that all its teachings and prescriptions in this regard lead to its alleviation as far as possible in the short term, and, in the longer term, conduce to its progressive suppression. To abolish it would have been impossible in a world in which it was generally practiced by all the states which bordered on the new Muslim empire, and in which the idea of challenging the principle itself had not occurred to anyone. It was the custom to enslave prisoners of war — when these were not simply massacred — and the Islamic state would have put itself at a grave disadvantage vis-a-vis its enemies had it not reciprocated to some extent. By guaranteeing them humane treatment, and various possibilities of subsequently releasing themselves, it ensured that a good number of combatants in the opposing armies preferred captivity at the hands of Muslims to death on the field of battle.
    BarakAllahu feeki. I appreciate you taking the time to explain this. What you said here makes sense and I did not think of this aspect.

    The entire economy was built on slavery at that time and to simply remove it instantly would send the world in free fall.

    But what about the purchase of slaves for intercourse? How is this ok? You purchase another human being to have intercourse with and the slave has so say in the matter, or many of these Muslims had wives and still got a slave to have intercourse with. What if the women objected to sexual intercourse with her master?
    I beg my parents for money

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Slavery (Part 2)

    @AishaGirl

    Now another aspect of slavery not mentioned is Warrior slaves and Slave ruler dynasties. Only in Islamic history will you see slaves (a certain type ofcourse) have similar social status to a nobleman- I'm not joking, free men gave themselves to slavery just to become a Mamluk. The Mamluks were great slave warriors who fought for Islam. The most famous mamluk was Baibars who defeated Mongols at the legendary Battle of Ain Jalut. He later became Sultan of Egypt. There was another slave dynasty that ruled a sultanate in India.

    Let's take a look at some of Islam's stance on slavery:

    Whosoever kills his slave: he shall be killed. Whosoever imprisons his slave and starves him, he shall be imprisoned and starved himself, and whosoever castrates his slave shall himself be castrated. (Abu Dawud, Diyat, 70; Tirmidhi, Diyat, 17; Al-Nasa’i, Qasama, 10, 16)

    You are sons of Adam and Adam was created from clay. (Tirmidhi, Tafsir, 49; Manaqib, 73; Abu Dawud, Adab, 111)

    You should know that no Arab is superior over a non-Arab and, no non-Arab is superior over any Arab, no white is superior over black and no black is superior over white. Superiority is by righteousness and God-fearing [alone]. (Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 411)

    Because of this compassionate attitude, those who had lived their whole lives as slaves and who are described in ahadith as poor and lowly received respect from those who enjoyed high social status (Muslim, Birr, 138; Jannat, 48; Tirmidhi, Manaqib, 54, 65). ‘Umar was expressing his respect in this sense when he said: ‘Master Bilal whom Master Abu Bakr set free’ (Bukhari, Fada’il al-Sahaba, 23). Islam (unlike other civilizations) requires that slaves are thought of and treated as within the framework of universal human brotherhood, and not as outside it. The Prophet, upon him be peace, said:

    Your servants and your slaves are your brothers. Anyone who has slaves should give them from what he eats and wears. He should not charge them with work beyond their capabilities. If you must set them to hard work, in any case I advise you to help them. (Bukhari, Iman, 22; Adab, 44; Muslim, Iman, 38–40; Abu Dawud, Adab, 124)

    Not one of you should [when introducing someone] say ‘This is my slave’, ‘This is my concubine’. He should call them ‘my daughter’ or ‘my son’ or ‘my brother’. (Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 2, 4)

    For this reason ‘Umar and his servant took it in turns to ride on the camel from Madina to Jerusalem on their journey to take control of Masjid al-Aqsa. While he was the head of the state, ‘Uthman had his servant pull his own ears in front of the people since he had pulled his. Abu Dharr, applying the hadith literally, made his servant wear one half of his suit while he himself wore the other half. From these instances, it was being demonstrated to succeeding generations of Muslims, and a pattern of conduct established, that a slave is fully a human being, not different from other people in his need for respect and dignity and justice.

    Whosoever kills his slave, he shall be killed, whosoever imprisons his slave and starves him, he shall be imprisoned and starved himself. (Tirmidhi, al-Ayman wa l-Nudhur, 13)
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    Lots of people have doubts about Islam when they're growing up, especially during their teenage years

    Doubts are dispelled with knowledge. What have you done to do away with these thoughts?

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    Theres a very good talk about salvery on youtube by omar suleiman.. Pls look it up

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Faith reloaded View Post
    Lots of people have doubts about Islam when they're growing up, especially during their teenage years

    Doubts are dispelled with knowledge. What have you done to do away with these thoughts?

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Faith reloaded View Post
    Theres a very good talk about salvery on youtube by omar suleiman.. Pls look it up
    I will find it thank you.
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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AishaGirl View Post
    But what about the purchase of slaves for intercourse? How is this ok? You purchase another human being to have intercourse with and the slave has so say in the matter, or many of these Muslims had wives and still got a slave to have intercourse with. What if the women objected to sexual intercourse with her master?
    Well, what I do know is that the women in question were captives of war and I don't they were bought exclusively for the reasons you mentioned. Either way I suggest you read about the Hurrem Sultan, Kosem Sultan of the Ottoman empire, they were both concubines of the Sultan. Female slaves were not treated as low as you think their children and the children of normal wives are considered equal. And I could be wrong here but I think there are hadiths which say if the master educates the slave girl and marries her, his reward will be doubled - not sure though, I have to check later. If such hadiths do exist, then it shows Islam encourages a muslim to marry his slave.
    @talibilm09 also had a good thread on this.
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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    OP, so the thing about Islam not given in one go is because Allah the almighty gives what is due in due Proportion.

    I can give you the cliche example of when a child goes to nursery/kindergarten you teach them the alphabet

    When the child goes to middle school they are ready to take on more than alphabets while using the alphabets to write sentences with, and when a child has gone up and now is in college/uni he's almost ready to have some sort of degree be it PhD or otherwise.

    Similarly when the first human's were here they had it basic and simple. But the basics of Tauheed was always taught and applied.

    Throughout each stage, humans mastered something.. . Be it lofty buildings, be it miracles and magic, be it art and literature or be it science and technology.

    When Islam was introduced, art and literature was at its prime. And Qur'an was revealed with such beauty, no masters of art and literature were able rival the beauty of the Quran.

    Today, the Qur'an withstands time by challenging science with modern day technology, and you can see sister that technology and science is at its prime yet Qur'an (which was revealed in the 7th century) knows more and is challenging the yardstick of people's values today.

    So to summarise, you will always see a consistent pattern of Allah sending revelation in stages until Allah perfects it for us at the correct time.

    If the Qur'an was given from the time of Adam alaihe salam, it wouldnt have been understood except a little.

    You see even with the ban of Alcohol Allah has given sure stages rather than to ban it altogether. Otherwise no alcoholic would be able to give up drinking.

    Same thing with slavery, slaves were an expensive investment for the people before technology came into it's own. Now we have mechanical slaves: washing machines and vaccum cleaners and cars and airplanes etc... back then they relied on human slaves to help with chores. But Allah's sunnah is that prohibition is done in stages because Allah Created men weak and Allah knows better than we that an outright no on many things won't be accepted by the people hence Islam will become difficult for people to bear. So Allah allowed slaves but commanded the freeing of slaves for any deserved reason (according to sharia) and anyone with slaves must treat them with care and concern. But in effect Islam eliminated slaves through the method of freeing the slaves when there was a reason for it. There is beautiful wisdom behind this if you understand.

    For us it's easy to sit and judge but slavery was the norm back then and Islam can proudly claim it humanized the slavery trade and eventually eliminated it. The reason why Slavery isn't banned is also due to the Wisdom of our Creator because the Qur'an is there until the end times, what happens if a situation rises where wars take place and the slavery issue opens up again? Well theres a clear sunnah on how to deal with them and how to eliminate even this slavery by freeing them. Thats why slavery isnt permanently banned.
    Last edited by candyapple; 24-04-17 at 06:04 PM. Reason: Spelling
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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AishaGirl View Post
    Those who do not believe

    The Quran makes it very clear that those who do not believe in Allah and his messenger Muhammad s.a.w will not be permitted to enter heaven and will spend eternity in hell*

    I think every human on the planet would agree that we cannot choose what we believe, it's impossible! Belief in something is a naturally occurring process that cannot be forced. If I ask you to genuinely believe a square is a circle or there is life on the Moon, you cannot. Therefore it seems incredibly strange and harsh for Allah to condemn a person to an eternity of hell simply because they were unable to believe in him. Aliens is a great example, aside from life on Earth there is literally 0 evidence that life exists elsewhere in the universe but I absolutely believe there is life on other planets, I don't choose to believe this, it's just something I believe. I cannot explain it.

    It would be a bit different if someone did genuinely believe but just decided not to follow his command. Then there is the issue of qadar... Allah has already written our path long before we were even born and it is literally set in stone. There are some disagreements about this but the underlining principle still stands, Allah swt already knows every outcome to every action before the action has even started, therefore it would seem ludicrous to create a person knowing full well they will end up in hell, they never even had a chance.

    *Those who die before puberty and those who do not have the mental capacity to learn Islam or those who have been unable to access Islam are automatically granted heaven. (some scholars differ on this).
    You believe in aliens the same reason why secular muslims in Indian subcontinent still believe in Jinns. It's cultural. In your culture, the TV programs, "scientists", Star Wars affect your beliefs. Fact.

    And ultimately you can believe what you want to believe. Some hindus worship and believe in Coconut gods.

    Now as for your other point, why did Allah create humans given that He knew the outcome. The knowledge is with Allah. However, if I have to give an answer, it is a matter of Quality over quantity. Do western people love street thugs and drugees more or do they love Napoleon, Churchill, Thomas Jefferson more? It is the latter who have made their marks in the world and history and the former are nothing but in dustbin of history. Now this might sound harsh but it's a fact. Why shouldn't Allah reward the few, quality humans who live and die for the sake of Islam just because there are more who have disbelieved? It is a matter of quality over quantity.
    Keep calm and don't hate the crescent.

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AishaGirl View Post
    Dua

    Dua is a very important part of Islam and it is not the same as prayer. When we make Dua we are directly asking Allah for his help, whether it be for the ending of suffering, to pass an exam, to have a safe journey or to grant us patience. It can be for anything really.

    The problem is our paths are already outlined and written for us, to make Dua asking Allah to change his mind seems not only impossible but a complete waste of time. Allah is infallible so to suggest that we can make him change his mind by asking him seems silly.

    Whether I pass that exam or the war in Syria ends tomorrow was written and planned by the best of planners, an infallible omniscient God so no matter how much Dua we make, God isn't going to change his mind, because that would mean that he was wrong in his plan for you, or the world for that matter.

    If I revise and study the best I can and fail then that is because that is what God planned for me, no amount of Dua would have changed that because again that would mean his plan was subject to change and God does not change his mind. He is infallible!
    The absolute knowledge about Qadr is with Allah. I've hear that duas can change qadr but I'm not sure.

    And no it's not God's plan, you are responsible for what you do for your exam. Allah just knows what you will do.
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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicen View Post
    Why shouldn't Allah reward the few, quality humans who live and die for the sake of Islam just because there are more who have disbelieved? It is a matter of quality over quantity.
    Why not then just send the straight to heaven if he knows before hand that they will be good Muslims and enter heaven? The trial is not a trial if Allah knows the outcome?

    It's like asking a student to sit an exam that you know for an absolute fact he will pass anyway. Just give him the job already and save everyone some time?


    Quote Originally Posted by candyapple View Post
    OP, so the thing about Islam not given in one go is because Allah the almighty gives what is due in due Proportion.

    I can give you the cliche example of when a child goes to nursery/kindergarten you teach them the alphabet

    When the child goes to middle school they are ready to take on more than alphabets while using the alphabets to write sentences with, and when a child has gone up and now is in college/uni he's almost ready to have some sort of degree be it PhD or otherwise.

    Similarly when the first human's were here they had it basic and simple. But the basics of Tauheed was always taught and applied.

    Throughout each stage, humans mastered something.. . Be it lofty buildings, be it miracles and magic, be it art and literature or be it science and technology.

    When Islam was introduced, art and literature was at its prime. And Qur'an was revealed with such beauty, no masters of art and literature were able rival the beauty of the Quran.

    Today, the Qur'an withstands time by challenging science with modern day technology, and you can see sister that technology and science is at its prime yet Qur'an (which was revealed in the 7th century) knows more and is challenging the yardstick of people's values today.

    So to summarise, you will always see a consistent pattern of Allah sending revelation in stages until Allah perfects it for us at the correct time.

    If the Qur'an was given from the time of Adam alaihe salam, it wouldnt have been understood except a little.

    You see even with the ban of Alcohol Allah has given sure stages rather than to ban it altogether. Otherwise no alcoholic would be able to give up drinking.

    Same thing with slavery, slaves were an expensive investment for the people before technology came into it's own. Now we have mechanical slaves: washing machines and vaccum cleaners and cars and airplanes etc... back then they relied on human slaves to help with chores. But Allah's sunnah is that prohibition is done in stages because Allah Created men weak and Allah knows better than we that an outright no on many things won't be accepted by the people hence Islam will become difficult for people to bear. So Allah allowed slaves but commanded the freeing of slaves for any deserved reason (according to sharia) and anyone with slaves must treat them with care and concern. But in effect Islam eliminated slaves through the method of freeing the slaves when there was a reason for it. There is beautiful wisdom behind this if you understand.

    For us it's easy to sit and judge but slavery was the norm back then and Islam can proudly claim it humanized the slavery trade and eventually eliminated it. The reason why Slavery isn't banned is also due to the Wisdom of our Creator because the Qur'an is there until the end times, what happens if a situation rises where wars take place and the slavery issue opens up again? Well theres a clear sunnah on how to deal with them and how to eliminate even this slavery by freeing them. Thats why slavery isnt permanently banned.
    BarakAllahu feeki.

    You have some good points
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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AishaGirl View Post
    Why not then just send the straight to heaven if he knows before hand that they will be good Muslims and enter heaven? The trial is not a trial if Allah knows the outcome?

    It's like asking a student to sit an exam that you know for an absolute fact he will pass anyway. Just give him the job already and save everyone some time?




    BarakAllahu feeki.

    You have some good points
    Wa iyyaki sis if u want to ask me i will be happy to discuss what I can in shaa Allah.
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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    Why are you subjecting Allah and Islam to a western morality system? This is your fatal flaw. Allah is the source of right and wrong, you do not judge what He does based on a morality system of man.

    You have not submitted to Allah truly. That or you do not truly believe in the Quran and the Rasul()

    If you believe the Quran to be revelation from Allah then that is it. You submit to Allah and accept that He knows better than you and that He does as He pleases.

    Assalamu alaikum warahmatullah.
    Sr @AishaGirl

    Sister has posted similar to this in the past.
    We can each of us go into the different issues trying to convince her.

    However, as brother Stoic Believer has said, when we come to the realisation of the Qur'an being from the Creator, all these questions become non-issues. Once this conviction is there, together with du'aa and remaining in contact internally with Allah Ta'aalaa, and abiding by the teachings of Islam, one will, inshaaAllah, find a type of experiential conviction, also.

    As brother Stoic has said, though, at the root of it all is our conviction in the authenticity of the Qur'an as being from the Creator (SWT).
    Last edited by Fakhri; 24-04-17 at 06:15 PM.
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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AishaGirl View Post
    Islam before Islam

    As the creator of all things, why not give mankind Islam at the earliest possible time? Humans have been around for a hell of a long time and so why not give all those people Islam so they too can live the way Allah knew was the perfect way for humans to live? In fact the word "Allah" is not found anywhere in the ancient texts meaning there wasn't even an attempt to guide these people.

    Why start guiding humanity so late into their existence?

    I also have to question how Islam was delivered. Delivery by one prophet is probably the single worst way a message for all of humanity could possibly be delivered. Humans are notoriously unreliable and always have hidden agendas or forgetful memories so why put the entire fate of mankind's eternal future in the hands of one prophet in 1 corner of the world? It seems implausible that this delivery method would work.

    I am not a God but I can think of a dozen much more effective ways to guarantee that as many humans as possible enter my paradise.
    This is a very weak point and I can conclude you never opened a Quran in your life.

    Allah says many times in the Quran that He sent many messengers and Prophets and many of them were wronged, mocked, etc. There were major prophets like Ibrahim(A) and Nuh(A) and most famously Isa(A).

    Allah is in arabic, people during different times uttered 'Allah' in their own language. So your point is kind of moot.

    And the Prophets(A) are a mercy to counter-balance the evils and shirk that were present during different times of the world. This world is a test of tawheed vs shirk and Allah has given us people to guide us as a form of mercy, instead of letting us wallow in our sins and end up in Hell.

    And instead of being grateful, we think we know better.
    Keep calm and don't hate the crescent.

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    What ever route required to believe in Islam is ok. Some people need evidence and Allah asks people to think.

    Some people just believe without needing any evidence.

    Both route is ok.
    "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AishaGirl View Post
    Why not then just send the straight to heaven if he knows before hand that they will be good Muslims and enter heaven? The trial is not a trial if Allah knows the outcome?
    This is silly, reward is only after the action is done.

    Well I don't like to talk about Qadr because as I said before the complete knowledge is with Allah, it's very complex and I'm afraid of what I might utter.

    But understand one thing, Allah is not bound by a timeframe, whereas our time is linear. If you think about this, you will understand why Allah has fore-knowledge of what we will do.
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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AishaGirl View Post
    I think every human on the planet would agree that we cannot choose what we believe, it's impossible!
    I disagree.

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicen View Post
    This is a very weak point and I can conclude you never opened a Quran in your life.

    Allah says many times in the Quran that He sent many messengers and Prophets and many of them were wronged, mocked, etc. There were major prophets like Ibrahim(A) and Nuh(A) and most famously Isa(A).

    Allah is in arabic, people during different times uttered 'Allah' in their own language. So your point is kind of moot.

    And the Prophets(A) are a mercy to counter-balance the evils and shirk that were present during different times of the world. This world is a test of tawheed vs shirk and Allah has given us people to guide us as a form of mercy, instead of letting us wallow in our sins and end up in Hell.

    And instead of being grateful, we think we know better.
    Yes I have opened and read the Quran.

    I am well aware of these other prophets but there is no evidence in history of Islam. No writings inscribed on caves or temples or anything. After sending thousands of prophets that all failed, why not choose a different delivery method since clearly this method was not working. And Allah would have known these prophets would have failed in advance before even sending them.

    Muhammad s.a.w succeeded in spreading the message of Islam but again it was just one prophet in 1 corner of the world. Why not send 10 or 15 or more like him in all corners of the world to spread the message all over the world. Look at how much land and people became Muslim after Muhammad s.a.w so imagine 10 or 15 more like him spreading the same message simultaneously all over the world. It would have been far better?
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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Regarding slavery, Nouman Ali Khan has this to say in a brief 6 minute or so clip:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1_ikJRVnM8
    والمبادرة إلى التكفير إنما تغلب على طباع من يغلب عليهم الجهل - ابن تيمية رحمه الله - بغية المرتاد

    "Rushing towards takfir is an attitude which is dominant over those who are defeated by ignorance." - Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullah [Bughyatul Murtaad, page 354]

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AishaGirl View Post
    Yes I have opened and read the Quran.

    I am well aware of these other prophets but there is no evidence in history of Islam. No writings inscribed on caves or temples or anything. After sending thousands of prophets that all failed, why not choose a different delivery method since clearly this method was not working. And Allah would have known these prophets would have failed in advance before even sending them.

    Muhammad s.a.w succeeded in spreading the message of Islam but again it was just one prophet in 1 corner of the world. Why not send 10 or 15 or more like him in all corners of the world to spread the message all over the world. Look at how much land and people became Muslim after Muhammad s.a.w so imagine 10 or 15 more like him spreading the same message simultaneously all over the world. It would have been far better?
    So Suleiman(A) failed? Dawud(A) failed? Musa(A) failed? Prophet Yusuf(A) failed? All of them had successes.

    There was a hindu here who recently converted to islam. He said even according to some of their old scripture, there's mention of one god. You have monotheist movements like Zoroastrianism(which was corrupted like christianity), etc

    Generally, if Allah destroys pagan civilizations that fought Islam, it's not difficult to understand why there's no trace of them.

    However here's an interesting article about Iram: http://www.answering-christianity.com/city_of_imad.htm
    Keep calm and don't hate the crescent.

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    @AishaGirl - I hope I've answered all your doubts. If you have more questions, ask away. I'll answer those later, insha'Allah.
    Keep calm and don't hate the crescent.

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicen View Post
    @AishaGirl - I hope I've answered all your doubts. If you have more questions, ask away. I'll answer those later, insha'Allah.
    Thank you Spicen I really appreciate you taking the time to explain as you have.

    Would you mine expanding a little more on qadar? I know you are worried of miss speaking but Allah swt knows your intentions Inshallah you are only trying to help. If not then maybe someone else can answer it.
    I beg my parents for money

  37. #37
    ♡♡ENFP♡♡ candyapple's Avatar
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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AishaGirl View Post
    Thank you Spicen I really appreciate you taking the time to explain as you have.

    Would you mine expanding a little more on qadar? I know you are worried of miss speaking but Allah swt knows your intentions Inshallah you are only trying to help. If not then maybe someone else can answer it.
    I wouldn't mind sister what do you want to know about Qadr?
    "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

    "Nothing protects the rights of the minority like the tyranny of the majority"

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    This was a very in depth and beneficial lecture on qadr I sat in last year. I hope you benefit , say bismillah and have good intention when listening. https://youtu.be/DMpNcODuag4

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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by mazuiz View Post
    This was a very in depth and beneficial lecture on qadr I sat in last year. I hope you benefit , say bismillah and have good intention when listening. https://youtu.be/DMpNcODuag4
    BarakAllahu feeki I will check it out when I have some free time.
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  40. #40
    Odan ZeeshanParvez's Avatar
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    Re: Concerns about some aspects of Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AishaGirl View Post
    I'm not choosing to believe this... I just can't help what I believe.
    So how do I fix it? What can I do?
    You are right. Guidance is not in your hand.

    Shahr bin Hawshab said:

    “I said to Umm Salamah: ‘O Mother of the Believers! What was the supplication
    that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said most frequently when he was with you?”
    She said: ‘The supplication he said most frequently was:
    “O Changer of the hearts, make my heart firm upon Your religion
    (Yā Muqallibal-qulūb, thabbit qalbī `alā dīnik).’”
    She said: ‘So I said: “O Messenger of Allah, why do you supplicate so frequently:
    ‘O Changer of the hearts, make my heart firm upon Your religion.’ He said:
    ‘O Umm Salamah! Verily, there is no human being except
    that his heart is between Two Fingers of the Fingers of Allah, so whomsoever He wills
    He makes steadfast, and whomever He wills He causes to deviate
    .’”

    [Jaami' alt- Tirmidhi].



    You need the help of Allaah to make you steadfast.

    Make du'aa for yourself.

    Make lots of du'aa.

    Make du'a with


    يَا مُقَلِّبَ الْقُلُوبِ ثَبِّتْ قَلْبِي عَلَى دِينِكَ

 

 

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