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  1. #1
    heh Pippin1376's Avatar
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    Backbiting - What is it?



    This was from a discussion with Deeni Akh, but it made me wonder what everyone thought of backbiting.

    Obviously, it's haram. That is obvious.

    And we know the difference between slander and gossip because of hadith.

    But that is not what this thread is about. This thread is what you consider to be backbiting, because I think the answer is different simply because I had a different view of it compared to Deeni Akh. (Not that any of us were wrong, it was just interesting to note the difference)
    مَّن ذَا الَّذِي يُقْرِضُ اللّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا فَيُضَاعِفَهُ لَهُ أَضْعَافًا كَثِيرَةً وَاللّهُ يَقْبِضُ وَيَبْسُطُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ

    "Who is he that will loan to Allah a beautiful loan, which Allah will double unto his credit and multiply many times?
    It is Allah that giveth (you) Want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return."
    Surah al-Baqarah
    [2:245]

    .:.
    .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
    Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

    .:.
    ...said the spider to the fly...

  2. #81

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    Re: Backbiting - What is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by علي View Post
    It's not equal to zero though, and you can't assume the sheikh thought this.
    None of my arguments rest on assumptions or copouts.

    This of course in addition to what I said previously, which was that it was not necessarily the listener as it was the issue of identification.
    And I've addressed this by pointing out the obvious fact that without a listener there is no identification being made, aside from the redundant identification of the teller as he gathers information from his memory, which would equally apply to scenario 1.


    why would Bin Baaz or anyone else want to contradict what is already such a widely agreed upon definition?
    Earlier you said it was an odd opinion though. And that fatwa was issue by a committee of several people.

    The ruling in the video does not seem to rest on any identification, since it's never mentioned.
    Last edited by quark; 21-03-17 at 05:08 PM.

  3. #82
    ---Ali--- علي's Avatar
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    Re: Backbiting - What is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by quark View Post
    None of my arguments rest on assumptions or copouts.



    And I've addressed this by pointing out the obvious fact that without a listener there is no identification being made, aside from the redundant identification of the teller as he gathers information from his memory, which would equally apply to scenario 1.




    Earlier you said it was an odd opinion though. And that fatwa was issue by a committee of several people.

    The ruling in the video does not seem to rest on any identification, since it's never mentioned.
    It is mentioned in his other fatwah though so that already closes the deal on that. He goes with what everyone else does regarding identification, to state what is in the video contradicts that is to basically say he's contradicting himself. One takes what he said in light of his other speech, not assume what he meant standalone.

    But yeah I do think the opinion on talking with one's self is kind of odd, but it remains a side issue and not much related to the backbiting we are talking about here, that involves speech to people other than the self.
    والمبادرة إلى التكفير إنما تغلب على طباع من يغلب عليهم الجهل - ابن تيمية رحمه الله - بغية المرتاد

    "Rushing towards takfir is an attitude which is dominant over those who are defeated by ignorance." - Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullah [Bughyatul Murtaad, page 354]

  4. #83
    yo Thunder94's Avatar
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    Re: Backbiting - What is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by quark View Post
    No, you just have trouble understanding. Deeni akh whom you agree with said the person spoken about just have to be unknown to the listener, not the person doing the backbiting. In the case of the fatwa I posted, clearly there is no listener who can identify the person backbitten about, hence, according to his definition, it would not be backbiting, or permissible backbiting as he calls it. However, the shaykh clearly disagrees and says he should refrain from doing it because the wording in the hadith is general.
    No, you have trouble understanding and everyone here according to you is wrong. Never seen you admit to being wrong. Ali explained it nicely.
    ***Reminder- It was narrated from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood that RasulAllah said: Whoever reads Tabaarak allaathi bi yadihi’l-mulk [i.e., Soorat al-Mulk] every night, Allaah will protect him from the torment of the grave.
    And never think that Allah is unaware of what the wrongdoers do. He only delays them for a Day when eyes will stare [in horror]. [Quran, 14:42]

  5. #84

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    Re: Backbiting - What is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder94 View Post
    No, you have trouble understanding and everyone here according to you is wrong. Never seen you admit to being wrong. Ali explained it nicely.
    It's still unclear how you can identify someone to a person who doesn't exist.

  6. #85
    ---Ali--- علي's Avatar
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    Re: Backbiting - What is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by quark View Post
    It's still unclear how you can identify someone to a person who doesn't exist.
    You're seriously still hanging on to that? Bro, just look at his fatwah on the subject:

    Praise be to Allah.
    If it is an unpleasant story and there is no information that could identify the people involved, then it is not backbiting; but if it will provoke trouble or lead to bad consequences, then mentioning it is haram for that reason, even if it is not backbiting.
    At the bottom:

    Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz, Shaykh ‘Abd al-Razaaq ‘Afeefi, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan.
    And no one disagrees with that. Simply spreading bad stories is sinful and causes a lot of negative repercussions in society just as backbiting does. But if we're going to go with the definition that was put forth in this topic, well first it's unfounded, second it means a ton of speech is now "backbiting" that would not have been backbiting or vain talk, and so much limitations will now have to be set in place. No one thinks that. You brought a video saying that maybe what was in it might point to this, but here you have the man's actual opinion, no one thinks that.
    والمبادرة إلى التكفير إنما تغلب على طباع من يغلب عليهم الجهل - ابن تيمية رحمه الله - بغية المرتاد

    "Rushing towards takfir is an attitude which is dominant over those who are defeated by ignorance." - Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullah [Bughyatul Murtaad, page 354]

  7. #86

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    Re: Backbiting - What is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by علي View Post
    You're seriously still hanging on to that? Bro, just look at his fatwah on the subject:



    At the bottom:



    .
    I've read the fatwa and it does not answer the question. No one is getting identified when you're talking with yourself. You can't dispute this.

    Simply spreading bad stories is sinful and causes a lot of negative repercussions in society just as backbiting does
    Referred to as permissible backbiting by the person I responded to.

  8. #87
    heh Pippin1376's Avatar
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    Re: Backbiting - What is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by علي View Post
    I also don't really understand the OP. The entire concept of "backbiting" is what is provided by the Shari`ah. Outside of that definition the rest is just arbitrary and cannot be used for anything. If one wishes to carry such an opinion, then sure whatever, but their standard should not really apply to anyone else. If for some reason I decide the color blue should be called green, I can't call people who insist the sky is blue "liars" or "wrong" unless of course an agreed upon source for my idea is provided. And I'm pretty sure the Shari`ah is an agreed upon source here.
    *sigh*

    Akhi, you're killing me here.

    I want to reiterate that this thread was never about the Shariah. I just wanted and hope for a lively discussion about how gossip differs depending on who you are speaking to, because despite what the Shariah says on the matter we all have different interpretations on it when it comes to ourselves.

    I gave an example of Deeni Akh and I have different opinions on the matter to show that both of us follow the Shariah alhamdulillah, but we can still view backbiting for ourselves differently. Neither of us are wrong and neither of us are liars, but we view it differently because we're different people who have different opinions on the matter. (Again, we know what the Shariah says, but Allah gave us our aql to think and contemplate) And sure, we can use scholars to back our own thoughts and opinions, but that doesn't mean that we can still feel another way due to our hearts and understanding.

    There are so many different forms of gossip in our world, news, celeb stuff, work, marriage, and general gossip in general. In Shariah, some of these wouldn't fall under the category of gheebah, but for our own nafs it would.


    It's okay though....because the message here is really lost, which is my fault. I thought I was clear in the OP, but clearly I wasn't. Sorry to everyone.
    مَّن ذَا الَّذِي يُقْرِضُ اللّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا فَيُضَاعِفَهُ لَهُ أَضْعَافًا كَثِيرَةً وَاللّهُ يَقْبِضُ وَيَبْسُطُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ

    "Who is he that will loan to Allah a beautiful loan, which Allah will double unto his credit and multiply many times?
    It is Allah that giveth (you) Want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return."
    Surah al-Baqarah
    [2:245]

    .:.
    .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
    Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

    .:.
    ...said the spider to the fly...

  9. #88
    SUFI HANAFI
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    Re: Backbiting - What is it?


  10. #89
    ---Ali--- علي's Avatar
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    Re: Backbiting - What is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pippin1376 View Post
    I gave an example of Deeni Akh and I have different opinions on the matter to show that both of us follow the Shariah alhamdulillah, but we can still view backbiting for ourselves differently. Neither of us are wrong and neither of us are liars, but we view it differently because we're different people who have different opinions on the matter. (Again, we know what the Shariah says, but Allah gave us our aql to think and contemplate) And sure, we can use scholars to back our own thoughts and opinions, but that doesn't mean that we can still feel another way due to our hearts and understanding.
    I got that, but I disagree with this because there is already an agreement on the matter and a clear point of reference, so if two people differ, one of them has to be wrong (doesn't mean they're a liar though). It doesn't really leave much room for personal opinion, but the topic is valid in that it is asking if someone else has a different opinion on what it is given that they might not be aware of exactly what it is according to the Shari`ah. Perhaps they can then be corrected? What it is according to the Shari`ah can't be ignored or put aside in a discussion for personal opinions because the entire concept of "backbiting" being relevant to Muslims and a big deal is due to what has been said about it in the Shari`ah. Otherwise it would simply be a question of what one prefers to believe on a lesser, mundane issue that the Shari`ah did not comment upon explicitly.

    So in all such cases, unless someone brings evidences as to why they believe backbiting is something more or less than what is agreed upon, their opinion is purely arbitrary. Quark tried to bring something that could be used as evidence for a differing position, but it didn't work out as his source also reiterates the agreed upon position elsewhere in clearer speech on the subject. And while there are places in the Shari`ah where there is room for disagreement, it's usually because there is evidence for that disagreement and differing positions should be founded with that.
    والمبادرة إلى التكفير إنما تغلب على طباع من يغلب عليهم الجهل - ابن تيمية رحمه الله - بغية المرتاد

    "Rushing towards takfir is an attitude which is dominant over those who are defeated by ignorance." - Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullah [Bughyatul Murtaad, page 354]

 

 

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