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    Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    as misquoted often by the APOLOGETICS, (Cheaters) since they hide the very next verse 9:6 which tells the Muslims to escort them to safety , http://quran.com/9/5-6

    Noble Quran 9:6 ''And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection,so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.''

    note : This is what Salahudeen Ayubi (Rahimahullah) did while taking back Jerusalem. His soldiers escorted all those who wanted leave to their places of safety, Despite the Crusaders' slaughter when Salahudeen originally conquered Jerusalem in 1099, he granted amnesty and free passage to all common Catholics and even to the defeated Christian army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin

    lets have A PROFOUND IN LOOK, INTO THE REAL BACKGROUND SITUATIONS DURING THIS REVELATIONS of Sura Tauba (Sura 9)

    8AH 629 AD MONTH OF RAMADHAN

    The leader of Quraish pagans of Mecca, Abu Sufyan arrives in Medina to apologise the breach of their Treaty with Muslims (killings within the corridor of kaaba,indeed a breach of worst degree) but he is not welcomed by Prophet who took prompt action after the breach so as not to allow them any opportunity to gather enough force after this, and made a sudden invasion with 10,000 companions on Mecca in the month of Ramadan in 8 AH and conquered it 18th day (approx) of Ramadhan peacefully without any resistance (except under 1 division, under Khalid bin Waleed, out of 4 divisions where a few deaths 12 kafirs who took arms and 4 muslims ) with a very few number of deaths who were war criminals. After this victory Even those Kafirs who gave Prophet & his companions gruesome hardship for 10 + 3 years (boycott of Food & medicines) are forgiven in this invasion and even assured of Security who stay behind the doors and religious freedom given even to the kafirs who worship idols with in their respective houses.

    Ibn Abbas said that his father Al-'Abbas. 'Abd al-Mutalib brought Ahu Sufyan b. Harb to the Messenger of God (SAAS) at Man al-Zamn and he accepted Islam. Al Abbas told him,"Messenger of God, Aha Sufym is a man who likes to enjoy prestige; perhaps you could do something for him." "Yes," he replied. "Whoever goes into Abu Sufyan's house will be secure. And whoever locks his door will be secure." When one companion , Sa'd bin Ubada who was holding the flag of the Muslims uttered something words like, this was the day of revenge, was immediately admonished by Prophet by replacing him by another person, to hold that flag.


    8AH 629 AD MONTH OF SHAWWAL (about 15-20 days after the conquest of Mecca)


    Note : THIS ALSO PROVES THE FOLLOWING VERY NOTABLE POINTS & FACTS

    1) From Mecca within 20 days of its successful conquest Prophet took his army to Taif or Battle of Hunain with 12000 soldiers. The total population of Mecca then about 60,000 (approx) and were not forced to accept Islam hence not forced to take part in the battle of Hunain because we know every Muslim a old convert or new convert of just a day over 15 years old are OBLIGED to take part in the Religious battle ( except with those with very old mothers or those who were assigned duty to take care of safety of women and children.) But Prophet left with all his companions 10,000 of them from Medina + ONLY 2000 NEW CONVERTS out of 60,000, PROVING no forceful conversions on the natives of Mecca even after the successful conquest of Mecca Subhanallah , Allah and his Prophet so pure so sweet,wow unlike our world wars the loosers become human shields and slaves for the armies construction works as was done by many armies like Japanese etc. ( River Kwai Bridge i 've visited and saw how terrible those prisoners have suffered to built this Burma- Death railway about 400 kms long in amidst a deep gorge that too when there were no SOPHISTICATED cranes those times in which 90,000 out of 180,000 died )

    2) These EXTRA 2000 soldiers who are new converts of Mecca request Prophet on seeing a HUGE tree to grant them this tree to be made a tree of luck (hanging threads and ropes) as in the days of ignorance at which Prophet admonish them saying they are asking something like the Jews asked Moses (pbuh) for some idols like the non believers had. This shows that these Meccan reverts were very new in their faith except some who lived in Islam, hidingly, lived as muslims untill Prophet took over Mecca to expose their faith .

    3) Even after Muslims have taken over Mecca and destroyed the 360 idols in the Kaaba the kaffirs in Mecca or any where were still allowed to visit Kaaba Shrine at Mecca as was in the days of ignorance with their usual circumambulating it naked (their haj) and whistling clapping was their worship ( very patient Muslims, indeed, even after assuming power).

    Noble Quran '' And their prayer at the House was not except whistling and handclapping. So taste the punishment for what you disbelieved.''


    4) This proves though the idols were removed from the Kaaba pagans, Idolators were STILL living around the Kaaba simultaneously doing Idol worship at their homes



    LATER PART OF 8AH and EARLY 9AH


    After the great victory of Hunain where 6000 women and children ( People of Taif ) captives were freed back by Prophet ( some even with Prophet's own money) after being taken as captives, Forgiving even the worst people who did not even stick to their usual world renowned Arab trait to dignify guests but stoned Prophet chasing him out of the city and this news of Prophet's mercifulness towards these worst rudest people on the Earth and this news spread all around Saudi Arabia and the world, which made them convert to Islam with about 70 delegations all voluntarily visiting Prophet at Medina and accepting islam , even at last the Taif tribes , their leaders visited Prophet and accepted islam. So Muslims who were 12,000 in later 8AH grew many folds , multiplied more than 10 TIMES just in 2 YEARs at the last haj of Prophet on 11 AH when there were 124,000 Hajis only at the valley of Arafah .


    LATER PART 9AH, 630 AD REVELATION OF THE NEW LAW

    The next year after conquest of Mecca Prophet does not attend haj but sends his closest companion Abu Bakr Sidiqque (Ra) as the Amir, leader for the Hajis from Medina . After Abubakr (ra) had left Medina with Hajis , Allah reveals this sura At Tauba (including verses 9:5-6) to dissolve the agreements with kafirs living in the vicinity of Mecca after giving a grace period of ample 4 months (about 6 miles radius) who have been guaranteed safety behind the doors for the past 15 months to do whatever they liked (even worship the idols, lol) within their homes and as per the international law those times if a guarantee or agreement is changed or made void it was necessary to give such a notice of dissolution in advance of 50 days so that the other party is not forced out in Shock or surprise.

    So Prophet sends his son in law Ali ibn Abu Talib with this revelation new message - NEW LAW of Demarcation (sura 9:1-6) after the Hajis have already left Medina so as to be proclaimed at every important place of Mecca so as to the news to reach all of its inhabitants in its every nook and corner. So surroundings of Mecca of about 6 mile radius (No enter zone for Non Muslims still as today and even for Muslims ONLY the Ihram area during Haj ) is made a debarred zone ONLY RESTORING the lost dignity of the Monotheists , THE FIRST PLACE OF WORSHIP OF THE ONE TRUE CREATOR OF EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS, THE KAABA ,'' COMPLETELY '' liberating the EVER first house of Allah on this GLOBE FROM POLYTHEISM that was built even before Abraham but reconstructed by the renowned Monotheist to all semetic religions Prophet Abraham on its old foundationshttp://quran.com/22/26# but has been still under the intrusions of the polytheists who still circumambulated it naked (their haj) and whistling clapping was their worship (satanic indeed)

    so verse 9:5

    which says those who opt to stay within the 6 miles radius of the Kaaba ( as of NOW TODAY ''strictly Ihram Area '' even for Muslims during Haj) MUST BE ONLY THE BELIEVERS (Monotheists- Muslims ) AND NOT THE IDOL WORSHIPPERS SO they have to move out of Mecca (with their idols and since the guarantee given by prophet before 15 months that you can do anything- just with in doors is revoked with ample time of 4 months,

    Wow so kind of Allah swt iow the Non Muslims enjoyed (even idols-shirk n kufar ) there in their houses for 19 months even after the conquest of Mecca,( in Spain Muslims were not given just a day but killed, raped, converted ) and ONLY those kafirs who will not still abide by this open warning of verse 9:5 after 4 months will be killed if they fight or even in that case of expiry of 4 months if these non muslims breachers of the NEW LAW did not raise arms to fight the muslims but surrendered , Muslims must explain to them about Islam and even still if these stupids ( whistling , clapping, nude worshippers, lol is that a worship in the house of Lord af Abraham ? ? ) do not accept Islam escort them to a place of safety because they are the people who do not know (9:6 http://quran.com/9:6 )

    Is there any Religion as sweet as Islam ????? which also says to protect these stupid non believers out from the danger zone and leave them into their community where they are safe ?
    Last edited by talibilm09; 18-10-15 at 05:02 PM.

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    Senior Member Isa Ali's Avatar
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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Really!? Are Muslims commanded in the Quran to kill Non-Muslims wherever they find them?
    theses sisters in the cartoon answers!
    watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It_X7CFVsFI
    Amazing Youtube and facebook page made by Muslims!
    gotta subscribe and check out the videos and News posts!
    like https://www.facebook.com/info.truefaceofislam
    https://www.youtube.com/user/ncapcs?sub_confirmation=1

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    as misquoted often by the APOLOGETICS, (Cheaters) since they hide the very next verse 9:6 which tells the Muslims to escort them to safety , http://quran.com/9/5-6

    Noble Quran 9:6 ''And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection,so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.''

    note : This is what Salahudeen Ayubi (Rahimahullah) did while taking back Jerusalem. His soldiers escorted all those who wanted leave to their places of safety, Despite the Crusaders' slaughter when Salahudeen originally conquered Jerusalem in 1099, he granted amnesty and free passage to all common Catholics and even to the defeated Christian army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin

    lets have A PROFOUND IN LOOK, INTO THE REAL BACKGROUND SITUATIONS DURING THIS REVELATIONS of Sura Tauba (Sura 9)

    8AH 629 AD MONTH OF RAMADHAN

    The leader of Quraish pagans of Mecca, Abu Sufyan arrives in Medina to apologise the breach of their Treaty with Muslims (killings within the corridor of kaaba,indeed a breach of worst degree) but he is not welcomed by Prophet who took prompt action after the breach so as not to allow them any opportunity to gather enough force after this, and made a sudden invasion with 10,000 companions on Mecca in the month of Ramadan in 8 AH and conquered it 18th day (approx) of Ramadhan peacefully without any resistance (except under 1 division, under Khalid bin Waleed, out of 4 divisions where a few deaths 12 kafirs who took arms and 4 muslims ) with a very few number of deaths who were war criminals. After this victory Even those Kafirs who gave Prophet & his companions gruesome hardship for 10 + 3 years (boycott of Food & medicines) are forgiven in this invasion and even assured of Security who stay behind the doors and religious freedom given even to the kafirs who worship idols with in their respective houses.

    Ibn Abbas said that his father Al-'Abbas. 'Abd al-Mutalib brought Ahu Sufyan b. Harb to the Messenger of God (SAAS) at Man al-Zamn and he accepted Islam. Al Abbas told him,"Messenger of God, Aha Sufym is a man who likes to enjoy prestige; perhaps you could do something for him." "Yes," he replied. "Whoever goes into Abu Sufyan's house will be secure. And whoever locks his door will be secure." When one companion , Sa'd bin Ubada who was holding the flag of the Muslims uttered something words like, this was the day of revenge, was immediately admonished by Prophet by replacing him by another person, to hold that flag.


    8AH 629 AD MONTH OF SHAWWAL (about 15-20 days after the conquest of Mecca)


    Note : THIS ALSO PROVES THE FOLLOWING VERY NOTABLE POINTS & FACTS

    1) The total population of Mecca then about 60,000 (approx) and were not forced to accept Islam hence not forced to take part in the battle of Hunain because we know every Muslim a old convert or new convert of just a day over 15 years old are OBLIGED to take part in the Religious battle ( except with those with very old mothers or those who were assigned duty to take care of safety of women and children.) But Prophet left with all his companions 10,000 of them from Medina + ONLY 2000 NEW CONVERTS out of 60,000, PROVING no forceful conversions on the natives of Mecca even after the successful conquest of Mecca Subhanallah , Allah and his Prophet so pure so sweet,wow unlike our world wars the loosers become human shields and slaves for the armies construction works as was done by many armies like Japanese etc.

    2) These EXTRA 2000 soldiers who are new converts of Mecca request Prophet on seeing a HUGE tree to grant them this tree to be made a tree of luck (hanging threads and ropes) as in the days of ignorance at which Prophet admonish them saying they are asking something like the Jews asked Moses (pbuh) for some idols like the non believers had. This shows that these Meccan reverts were very new in their faith except some who lived in Islam, hidingly, lived as muslims untill Prophet took over Mecca to expose their faith .

    3) Even after Muslims have taken over Mecca and destroyed the 360 idols in the Kaaba the kaffirs in Mecca or any where were still allowed to visit Kaaba Shrine at Mecca as was in the days of ignorance with their usual circumambulating it naked (their haj) and whistling clapping was their worship ( very patient Muslims, indeed, even after assuming power).

    Noble Quran '' And their prayer at the House was not except whistling and handclapping. So taste the punishment for what you disbelieved.''


    4) This proves though the idols were removed from the Kaaba pagans, Idolators were STILL living around the Kaaba simultaneously doing Idol worship at their homes



    LATER PART OF 8AH and EARLY 9AH


    After the great victory of Hunain where 6000 women and children ( People of Taif ) were freed back by Prophet ( some even with Prophet's own money) after being taken as captives, Forgiving even the worst people who did not even stick to their usual world renowned Arab trait to dignify guests but stoned Prophet chasing him out of the city and this news of Prophet's mercifulness towards these worst rudest people and this news spread all around Saudi Arabia and the world, which made them convert to Islam with about 70 delegations all voluntarily visiting Prophet at Medina and accepting islam , even at last the Taif tribes , their leaders visited Prophet and accepted islam. So Muslims who were 12,000 in later 8AH grew many folds , multiplied more than 10 TIMES just in 2 YEARs at the last haj of Prophet on 11 AH when there were 124,000 Hajis only at the valley of Arafah .


    LATER PART 9AH, 630 AD REVELATION OF THE NEW LAW

    The next year after conquest of Mecca Prophet does not attend haj but sends his closest companions Abu Bakr Sidiqque (Ra) as the Amir, leader for the Hajis from Medina . After Abubakr (ra) had left Medina with hajis , Allah reveals this sura At Tauba (including verses 9:5-6) to dissolve the agreements with kafirs living in the vicinity of Mecca after giving a grace period of ample 4 months (about 6 miles radius) who have been guaranteed safety behind the doors for the past 15 months to do whatever they liked (even worship the idols, lol) within their homes and as per the international law those times if a guarantee or agreement is changed or made void it was necessary to give such a notice of dissolution in advance of four months so that the other party is not forced out in surprise.

    So Prophet sends his son in law Ali ibn Abu Talib with this revelation new message (sura 9:1-6) after the Hajis have already left Medina so as to be proclaimed at every important place of Mecca so as to the news to reach all of its inhabitants in its every nook and corner. So surroundings of Mecca of about 6 mile radius (No enter zone for Non Muslims still as today and even for Muslims ONLY Ihram area during Haj ) is made a debarred zone ONLY RESTORING the lost dignity of the Monotheists , THE KAABA ,'' COMPLETELY '' liberating the EVER first house of Allah on this GLOBE FROM POLYTHEISM that was built even before Abraham but reconstructed by the renowned Monotheist to all semetic religions Prophet Abraham on its old foundations but has been still under the intrusions of the polytheists who still circumambulated it naked (their haj) and whistling clapping was their worship (satanic indeed)

    so verse 9:5

    which says those who opt to stay within the 6 miles radius of the Kaaba ( as of NOW TODAY ''strictly Ihram Area '' even for Muslims during Haj) MUST BE ONLY THE BELIEVERS (Monotheists- Muslims ) AND NOT THE IDOL WORSHIPPERS SO they have to move out of Mecca (with their idols and since the guarantee given by prophet before 15 months that you can do anything- just with in doors is revoked with ample time of 4 months,

    Wow so kind of Allah swt iow the Non Muslims enjoyed (even idols-shirk n kufar ) there in their houses for 19 months even after the conquest of Mecca,( in Spain Muslims were not give just a day but killed, raped, converted ) and ONLY those kafirs who will not still abide by this open warning of verse 9:5 after 4 months will be killed if they fight or even in that case of expiry of 4 months if these non muslims breachers of the NEW LAW did not raise arms to fight the muslims but surrendered , Muslims must explain to them about Islam and even still if these stupids do no accept Islam escort them to a place of safety (9:6)

    Is there any Religion as sweet as Islam ????? which also says to protect these stupid non believers out from the danger zone and leave them into their community where they are safe ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Isa Ali View Post
    Really!? Are Muslims commanded in the Quran to kill Non-Muslims wherever they find them?
    theses sisters in the cartoon answers!
    watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It_X7CFVsFI
    Wonderful

    Thanks for sharing the context.

    loved both the article and the animation video.
    Be careful who you call Kafir because only Allah knows who is truly a rejector and who is merely a misguided person. It is not up to us to "sentence" a person to the Hellfire.

    The Questions you Questioned will be Questioned in the day of judgement

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hate Racism View Post
    Wonderful

    Thanks for sharing the context.

    loved both the article and the animation video.
    Jazakallah brother, Alhamdulilaah, I just found a Sahih hadith which further proves our Claims about this verse which Islamphobes allege every time in support of their false claims that Islam supports killings of all Non Muslims , Absurd

    POLYTHEISTS BANNED FROM HAJ IN NUDE

    Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 60 :: Hadith 179

    Narrated Humaid bin Abdur Rahman:Abu Huraira said, "Abu Bakr sent me in that Hajj in which he was the chief of the pilgrims along with the announcers whom he sent on the Day of Nahr to announce at Mina: "No pagan shall perform Hajj after this year, and none shall perform the Tawaf around the Ka'ba in a naked state." Humaid added: That the Prophet sent 'Ali bin Abi Talib (after Abu Bakr) and ordered him to recite aloud in public Surat-Baraa. Abu Huraira added, "So 'Ali, along with us, recited Bara'a (loudly) before the people at Mina on the Day of Nahr and announced "No pagan shall perform Hajj after this year and none shall perform the Tawaf around the Ka'ba in a NAKED state."..except those pagans with whom you (Muslims) have a treaty." (9.4)





    Mods my fonts n colors are missing , this is not first time I need them please
    Edit: thanks for rectifying-used it
    Last edited by talibilm09; 29-09-15 at 04:24 AM.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    as misquoted often by the APOLOGETICS, (Cheaters) since they hide the very next verse 9:6 which tells the Muslims to escort them to safety , http://quran.com/9/5-6

    Noble Quran 9:6 ''And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection,so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.''
    That verse also adds a caveat, and makes an exception for polytheists, who are seeking protection, in order to hear the words of Allah.

    Not many polytheists or non-Muslims, want to hear or be lectured on Islam. They may want protection, but have already made up their mind about Islam, and don't want to hear anymore about it.

    It's at least still good that that the verse is instructing mercy for those who want to learn more and "hear the words of Allah."

    If the verse applied to all polytheists, even those who don't want to "hear the words of Allah," then surely before being killed, they could have simply said I want protection.
    Last edited by Fenix; 07-10-15 at 02:46 PM.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    as misquoted often by the APOLOGETICS, (Cheaters) since they hide the very next verse 9:6 which tells the Muslims to escort them to safety , http://quran.com/9/5-6

    Noble Quran 9:6 ''And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection,so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.''
    Clearly you have not studied this Mas'alah properly as is evidenced by the fact that all you bring to support your false conclusions is history.

    There are clear rulings from the jurists on the topic and clear exegesis on the verses from the scholars of Tafseer. None of that corresponds to what you have invented.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    Is there any Religion as sweet as Islam ????? which also says to protect these stupid non believers out from the danger zone and leave them into their community where they are safe ?
    If you are telling the truth about what "Islam" says then bring a single major scholar of Islam who says that these verses mean Disbelievers must be protected and that they must be escorted to Dar al-Kufr and safety.

    Everyone should really disregard everything you wrote until then...

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    Clearly you have not studied this Mas'alah properly as is evidenced by the fact that all you bring to support your false conclusions is history.

    There are clear rulings from the jurists on the topic and clear exegesis on the verses from the scholars of Tafseer. None of that corresponds to what you have invented.



    If you are telling the truth about what "Islam" says then bring a single major scholar of Islam who says that these verses mean Disbelievers must be protected and that they must be escorted to Dar al-Kufr and safety.

    Everyone should really disregard everything you wrote until then...
    Based on scholarly notes of Nouman Ali Khan and the institute of Bayyinah

    Both historical and textual context is important for this surah, without azbaab an nazul we can easily misuse this ayah

    Surah at-tawbah is one of the most complicated surah of the Quran and requires a lot of careful study to be understood properly. In the study of tafseer, it is imperative to understand the two major types of contexts: textual and historical. Textual context relates the ayaat around an ayah, to understand the conversation that is taking place. Similar to how you the meaning of a conversation changes if parts of speech are omitted, putting things out of context. As for the historical context, this can be referred to as the asbaab an-nuzul, as the reasons for revelation of the ayaat.

    Unfortunately in our history, there has been a demarcation between these two contexts---some tafasir focus on only one, while others only on the other. Ustadh Numan is really convinced that the importance of the historical contexts is illustrated while tyring to understand this surah.

    This surah is perhaps the most 'merciless' surah of the Quran---it doesn't even begin with the basmalah. It is very uncompromising and very punitive. It also has some of the harshest language in the Quran. This surah is misused by two types of extreme people: people who are influenced by their anger of what's going on around the world, against the Muslims; the others are enemies of Islam who use it to make arguments against Muslims. However there is also a third group of 'silent scholarship' that basically hasn't done enough in exposing a proper understanding of this issue.

    Contextual break-down of the surah

    This surah, from a textual context, is divided into two main sections (first 5 passages and the remaining 11 passages). The first section deals with the Prophet's domestic mission, the 'cleansing' of Makkah, the final part of this mission is discussed in the first passages. While in the second section, his international mission is dealt with. These are the envoys who the Prophet sent to kings outside the lands of Makkah and Madinah. Interestingly the international missions haven't been sent until after the treaty of hudaybiyyah, which is dealt with in surah al-fath, which comes after a while in the mushaf. That treaty was an open-victory for the Prophet, wherein Allah alleviates the Prophet's concerns with regards to the domestic mission. Now that he has taken care of the domestic mission, he starts sending envoys to external areas. This is an interesting dawah gem, that take care of your own issues before giving dawah to others.

    The first five passages are futher broken up. They can be divided into two ruku', each of them dealing with distinct subjects. Two of them deal with one subject and three deal with another. One of them is before the time when Makkah was conqured (before 8 AH), and at that time there is some conversation happening amongst the Muslims about whether Makkah would be conquered or not. Remember that in the 6 year AH, a treaty was signed for

    peace between the Muslims and the kuffar of Quraysh, and between their affiliates. One of the affiliates of the Quraysh broke the treaty and engaged in violence. When a contract is breached---we learned in surat al-anfaal---we are no longer obligated to abide by that contract. To refresh our memories: When hudaybiyyah was passed, it opened an opportunity for the Prophet to make additional treaties with multiple tribes---the fact the Quraysh even came to negotiate was a sign of the power of the Muslims at that point (previously they were ready to fight the muslims in battle), now the Muslims have gone to Makkah to make hajj and they are unarmed, the Quraysh had felt the pressure already.

    As the conversation is going on in the city, one must remember that there are many types of people in Makkah, there aren't just hardcore kuffar and manafiqeen, there are families. And if a battle happens in a city, there is a chance of serious civilian casualties. That is a growing concern amongst the Muslims. They can sense from the Prophet that this is the direction that they are heading to. Allah reveals two ruku' in this surah to compel the Muslims to advance against Makkah. Allah knows that there is not going to be a fight in Makkah, but He reveals that they should fight them, and kill them so be ready to do so. Allah wants to mentally prepare them for anything. Wa Allahu a'alam. Note also, that Allah hints when He says in surat al-fath that they would be able to make Hajj without any fear, although they were unable to when they went earlier (leading to the treaty of Hudaybiyyah). So two passages deal with this preparation for battle.

    The next three passages are revealed in the 9 year AH. Remember that in the 9 AH, the Prophet did not make Hajj, but he sent Abu Bakr as the amir for the Muslims to make Hajj. A whole year has gone by since the conquest, yet the Prophet has not made Hajj.

    What's really peculiar is that even though the idols have been destroyed, the pilgrimage is allowed even for the non-Muslims---this is interesting as it is tactical since now all types of people are present at the Ka'bah, something necessary for what's about to happen.

    Now the caravan of Abu Bakr has left, and as they are leaving, six ayaat of this surah are revealed in Madinah. But the purpose of these ayaat is for them to be announced as a public announcement at Hajj. So the Prophet sends Ali to make this announcement (it was customary that a family member give an announcement of someone's behalf). So Ali catches up with the caravan. And Abu Bakr asks, ameerum, aw ma'murun (are you here to lead or to be led?), subhanAllah, muslims always operate with discipline---understanding unified leadership---immediately Ali responds that he is under Abu Bakr's command. The Muslims understood the value of chain of command, and interestingly this is instilled into us through the communal acts of worship: e.g. Salaat bi jamaa'a. Eventually these ayaat are then announced at Hajj, as we will see in the following passages.

    The three passages (6 ayaat) are the first passage. They are the post-victory passage, yet the first ones to be mentioned. Then the second and the third passages are the pre-victory passages, they encourage the Muslims to be prepared for war. And then the fourth and the fifth passages return to the post-victory message (how the Quraysh will be dealt with, domestic policies, etc). When these issues are taken care of, the surah starts talking about broader issues.

    This is a punishment for the kuffar

    It is very clear from the Quran that every messenger that Allah sends, there is a pattern of how events take place. Very few people listen to their messengers, those who disobey are warned, and then they are annihilated with the punishment of Allah and guaranteed punishment in the aakhirah. Similarly if we divide the life of the Messenger into the makkan and the madani periods, he went through the same struggles in the first period---he is non-violent, he is warning people of their actions, giving glad tidings to those who obey, and Allah sends samples after samples with the stories of previous nations by revealing the Quran. However unlike previous nations, where people would be annihilated after reaching the 'point of no return' in misguidance and denial, the kuffar of makkah will be punished in a different way---at the hands of the messengers and the companions, this is divine retribution in keeping with the sunnah of the previous nations which were destroyed at this point.

    Many people call this surah a brutal surah, but if one gets to really understand it, one realizes how truly the Messenger of Allah was a true mercy to humanity and how guidance is mercy from Allah. This is evident in the ayaat of this surah, and in what manner the Muslims are commanded to 'punish' the kuffar.

    Killing in the way of Allah

    The first incidence of the command of fighting is when Allah cites the legacy of Musa (“...Enter this town... [al-Baqarah: 57], or “...In it are people of great strength...” [al-Maidah: 22]). So how come the Prophet Musa is ordered to fight, many other Prophets, Ibrahim, Nuh, etc are not? For this we need to understand the difference between a law and moral. Courtesy, mercy, humility, honesty, etc, are morals and ethical values. They are spiritual teachings and they were given to all Prophets. Moral teachings cannot be enforced by the government, they cannot be quantified or gauged. But for example, stopping at the red light is a law. A law is generally one that has worldly consequences if it is broken, not only spiritual repercussions or consequences in the hereafter. You won't get arrested for being mean to your neighbour, but you would be sinful, but you would be arrested for harming them.

    Musa was given a law, a shariah. A law cannot exist unless there are consequences for breaking it, otherwise they are just a bunch of ideas. But to implement the law, you need to have control of a territory, you either take over a territory and establish your law or you defend yours to keep it established. Obviously there will be fighting. So Allah commands him to go to a particular land and establish the law. This is something common between the Prophets Musa and Muhammad.

    There are three kinds of violence: self-defence, retaliation and preemptive aggression. Self-defence is similar understood in most constitutions. The other two are matters of law and state-hood. Islam never gave the right to the individual to engage in retaliation on their own, nor to be aggressive preemptively. This surah talks about perhaps the most violent topics in the entire Quran, however it makes it clear in its 13th verse, “Will you not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the

    Messenger and took the aggressive by being the first to assault you?”

    In recent times, the text of this surah has been used to justify the personal exploits of various groups of Muslims. This is unprecedented in Islamic history. This type of vigilante justice only leads to chaos. Imagine if someone didn't say salam to you, and you felt from their actions that they had left Islam, and you branded them as a murtad, and so thought it was okay to enact the hadd punishment upon them, what would happen to society? If this was the case of Islam, there would never be civilization. These ayaat were never understood in this way by those who have understood the Quran.

    As for violence found in the seerah, we see that they first acts of it were committed by the Quraysh. In retaliation to that violence; the Muslims in Makkah had a policy to be passive and to respond with words and not swords. The Muslims were ordered to keep doing that, and would have done so, until Allah mandated them to leave Makkah. Then after six months, they only engaged the Quraysh when they have been given permission from Allah, not on their own. Note that the commands to be patient are more applicable to the muhajirun, and the commands to fight are more applicable to the ansaar. The ansaar had no previous enmity with the makkans. Now their loyalties are to Islam, they are to engage in fighting. Remember that when the Prophet was asking people's opinions in Badr, he would keep asking for opinions because he was waiting to hear for an ansaari to speak up. The violence in the seerah of the Prophet is directly related to the punishment that Quraysh deserved, just like firawn deserved it. Allah says in surah al-sajdah, verse 21, “And We will make them taste the punishment of this life before the supreme punishment (of the aakhirah) in order that they may repent and return.” So the battles of badr and ahzaab and so on are all small-scale punishments. The big punishment is what's happening in this surah.

    This context should help us keep in mind that these rulings do not apply generally to all non-Muslims.


    verse 9:6

    Wa 'In 'Aĥadun Mina Al-Mushrikīna Astaraka

    Jar means neighbor and also means refuge. Jeeran is also refuge. In other words, your neighbor is supposed to be a form of refuge. Istijaara is to ask for refuge, from your neighbor. So basically in the context of these people, the Prophet was also their neighbor, and they have the chance to go to him, and seek refuge from the punishment of Allah that is being enacted through him. The other thing about this ayah, there is a population of people living living in makkah who have no idea idea of what's going going on for the last 20 years. So imagine if such a person person came to the Prophet and said that he had to no idea what Islam was. Yet, if they were were to come asking asking for refuge, then they are to be given refuge. Until they gets to hear the kalaam of Allah. So Allah says, then make sure you make him reach (ublighu ma'manahu), get him to a place where he feels safe--- don't hang around hovering over him with your sword. This is unprecedented mercy.

    This surah is misused misused by two types of extreme people:
    people who who are influenced by their anger of what's going on around the world against Muslims and the enemies of Islam who wants to make an argument against
    Last edited by Hate Racism; 07-10-15 at 11:04 PM.
    Be careful who you call Kafir because only Allah knows who is truly a rejector and who is merely a misguided person. It is not up to us to "sentence" a person to the Hellfire.

    The Questions you Questioned will be Questioned in the day of judgement

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    If a person has the ability to do so, then he/she should look at the Tafaseer and works of abrogation to know what the verse in question means.

    Both at-Tabari and al-Qurtubi mention that as-Suddi and adh-Dhahhak considered verse 6 of Tawbah to be abrogated. Keep that in mind...

    The majority however state that Tawbah verse 6 is an exception to the verse of the sword. This does not mean that the verse to kill the polytheists wherever they are found is abrogated.

    Also, the correct understanding of verse 6 of Tawbah is that the only polytheist exempted from the verse of the sword is the one who asks for a guarantee of safety specifically in order to hear the Quran or about Islam, and no one else. There are differences of opinion about who is allowed to grant that guarantee of safety with most early scholars stipulating that guarantees of safety require the existence of a Khalifah/Imam.

    The Mushrik has to make it clear that he is seeking a guarantee of safety in order to hear the Quran and learn the basics about Islam. If he is present in Muslim lands for any other reason then he becomes ransom, enslaved or can be killed at the discretion of the Ameer/Imam.

    What does it mean to 'hear the Quran'?

    Al-Qurtubi says: "To understand its rulings, commands and prohibitions..." 8/76

    Under this category also follows rulings dealing with who is allowed to learn the Quran and about Islam. Most scholars say that if there is no hope that the person will become Muslim then he is not allowed to learn the Quran or about Islam.

    If the Mushrik accepts Islam, then fine. If he does not, then he is to be returned to the spot where safety was granted him and his guarantee is then revoked.

    Nothing Mr. 'TalibIlm09' wrote conveys any of the above because it is completely invented and not based on the Shari'ah of Islam at all.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    If a person has the ability to do so, then he/she should look at the Tafaseer and works of abrogation to know what the verse in question means.

    Both at-Tabari and al-Qurtubi mention that as-Suddi and adh-Dhahhak considered verse 6 of Tawbah to be abrogated. Keep that in mind...

    The majority however state that Tawbah verse 6 is an exception to the verse of the sword. This does not mean that the verse to kill the polytheists wherever they are found is abrogated.

    Also, the correct understanding of verse 6 of Tawbah is that the only polytheist exempted from the verse of the sword is the one who asks for a guarantee of safety specifically in order to hear the Quran or about Islam, and no one else. There are differences of opinion about who is allowed to grant that guarantee of safety with most early scholars stipulating that guarantees of safety require the existence of a Khalifah/Imam.

    The Mushrik has to make it clear that he is seeking a guarantee of safety in order to hear the Quran and learn the basics about Islam. If he is present in Muslim lands for any other reason then he becomes ransom, enslaved or can be killed at the discretion of the Ameer/Imam.

    What does it mean to 'hear the Quran'?

    Al-Qurtubi says: "To understand its rulings, commands and prohibitions..." 8/76

    Under this category also follows rulings dealing with who is allowed to learn the Quran and about Islam. Most scholars say that if there is no hope that the person will become Muslim then he is not allowed to learn the Quran or about Islam.

    If the Mushrik accepts Islam, then fine. If he does not, then he is to be returned to the spot where safety was granted him and his guarantee is then revoked.

    Nothing Mr. 'TalibIlm09' wrote conveys any of the above because it is completely invented and not based on the Shari'ah of Islam at all.
    Mujāhid said that this verse guarantees the safety of people in general
    ( ins ā n ) who came to listen to the Prophet recite from the Qur’ān until they
    had returned to the place of refuge whence they came.

    The Tanwīr al-miqbās says that the verse commands the Prophet to grant
    safe conduct to anyone from among the polytheists who asks for it, so that he
    may hear the recitation of the speech of God. If he does not believe (sc. embrace
    Islam), then he is to be granted safe passage back to his land ( wa ṭ anahu ). This
    is so because they are a people ignorant of the commandments of God and
    His oneness.


    Hūd b.Muḥakkam similarly comments that the polytheist who requests
    safe conduct from Muslims in order to listen to the word of God is to be so
    granted and returned unharmed to his place of origin, whether he embraces
    Islam or not. This was the view of Muj ā hid, for example. Al-Kalb ī is quoted
    as saying that the verse referred instead to a group of polytheists who wished
    to renew their pact with Mu ḥ ammad after the sacred months had passed.
    When Mu ḥ ammad asked them to profess Islam, off er prayers, and pay the
    zakāt , they refused, and the Prophet let them return safely to their homes.
    Ibn Mu ḥ akkam further notes that al- Ḥ asan al-Ba ṣ r ī had remarked thus on the
    status of this verse: “It is valid and unabrogated ( mu ḥ kama ) until the Day of
    Judgment.”

    Al-Qummı¯ affirms briefly that this verse asks Muslims to recite the Qur’ān
    to the polytheist, explain it to him, and not show him any opposition until he
    returns safely. 113 It is worth noting that Fur ā t regards Qur’ān 9:6 as abrogating
    Qur’ān 9:5 and thus overriding the seemingly blanket injunction concerning
    the polytheists contained in the latter verse. In this he agrees with many of his
    predecessors that the polytheist who wishes for safe conduct in order to listen
    to the word of God should be so granted and then peacefully escorted back to
    his home, regardless of whether he had embraced Islam or not

    Al- Ṭabarı ¯ says that in this verse God counsels Mu ḥ ammad, “If someone
    from among the polytheists ( al-mushrik ī n )—those whom I have commanded
    that you fi ght and slay after the passage of the sacred months—were to ask
    you, O Mu ḥ ammad, for safe conduct in order to listen to the word of God,
    then grant this protection to him so that he may hear the word of God and
    you may recite it to him.” Such an individual, according to the verse, is to be
    subsequently escorted back to his place of safety even if he rejects Islam and
    fails to believe after the Prophet’s recitation of the Qur’ān before him. Scholars
    in the past who have agreed with this general interpretation include Ibn Is ḥ ā q,
    al-Sudd ī , 115 and Muj ā hid

    Al-W āḥidı ¯ comments very briefly that, should someone from among the
    same group of polytheists request safe conduct and refuge among Muslims
    so that he may listen to the word of God and learn of its positive commandments
    and interdictions, he is to be so granted and escorted back to a place of
    safety. This is so because they are an ignorant people, and so should be given
    protection and the opportunity to acquire knowledge and perhaps submit to
    Islam.

    . Tanwīr al-miqbās , 199.
    . Hūdb. Muḥakkam, Tafsīr , 2:115.
    . Al-Qummī , Tafsīr , 1:282.
    . Furāt, Tafsīr , 1:163.
    . Cf. al-Suddī , Tafsīr , 288.
    . Al- Ṭabarī , Jāmi‘ , 6:321.
    Last edited by Hate Racism; 13-10-15 at 05:24 PM.
    Be careful who you call Kafir because only Allah knows who is truly a rejector and who is merely a misguided person. It is not up to us to "sentence" a person to the Hellfire.

    The Questions you Questioned will be Questioned in the day of judgement

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    Clearly you have not studied this Mas'alah properly as is evidenced by the fact that all you bring to support your false conclusions is history.

    There are clear rulings from the jurists on the topic and clear exegesis on the verses from the scholars of Tafseer. None of that corresponds to what you have invented.



    If you are telling the truth about what "Islam" says then bring a single major scholar of Islam who says that these verses mean Disbelievers must be protected and that they must be escorted to Dar al-Kufr and safety.

    Everyone should really disregard everything you wrote until then...
    Many of Our Scholars are busy fighting within themselves and fighting within Muslim ourselves with the fatwas so they are least interested or not free enough to indulge in such issues like which we are talking about that are raised by islamaphobes.. Think you are from such groups too.

    Sorry I do not belong to such groups. My stance is supported by Dr Zakir Naik speeches and you will claim he is not a scholar then. If you had read carefully Salahudeen Ayubi ( Rahimahullah) the undisputed Islamic Hero during crusades enacted this verse exactly during crusades think you missed it to read well my post . And i had used Tafsir ibn abbas which specifies Abrogated verse of nikkah mutah and others to claim what I claim with supporting historical dates, incidents and hadiths . So If you are against the welfare of islam hiding the facts and figures which I've used to prove my stance its upto you and you claim an Arabic name. allahul aalam.

    These are simple issues mischieviously raised by the Apologetics and you can't expect the Esteemed Ulema or scholars to refute each and every of these 100's of twisted claims of the Apologetics . If you are Sincere Muslim you can try, Allah swt will open they ways to understanding for proof of what I say read my post # 9 http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...s-a-true-ulema and these are not like fiqh issues or disputable grey areas for which you need Fatwas and declarations and support of The Scholars when the verses of noble Quran and Hadiths and actions of Prophet,Sahabas are clear enough.

    In another Hadith said something like not to take scholars as rab so we have to use our Allah swt given brain too and use reasoning and facts IN THE LIGHT OF NOBLE QURAN< HADITHS AND ACTIONS OF SAHABAS. Least but not the last , I am not babbling but giving proofs from The Noble Quran ,hadiths and seerah So kindly control your words and rhetoric and at least do not babble or obstruct against people like us if you yourselves cant do any good or defend or do not want to defend Islam in any way.
    Last edited by talibilm09; 18-10-15 at 04:31 PM.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    My stance is supported by Dr Zakir Naik speeches ... Salahudeen Ayubi ( Rahimahullah) ... enacted this verse exactly during crusades ...


    If you think those two things above are 'proofs' in Islam then you are astray without a doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    i had used Tafsir ibn abbas and others to claim what I claim with supporting historical dates, incidents and hadiths . ...
    The conclusion you made is the problem, not the chronological progression:

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    after 4 months will be killed if they fight or even in that case of expiry of 4 months
    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    if these non muslims breachers of the NEW LAW did not raise arms to fight the muslims but surrendered , Muslims must explain to them about Islam and even still if these stupids ... do not accept Islam escort them to a place of safety because they are the people who do not know


    The above conclusion is false and is not what our Quran, Sunnah and resulting Shari'ah dictate. All the proofs you brought were regarding what was legislated before the abrogating Verse of the Sword and the exception to that verse, the verse which allowed for Kuffar to seek a guarantee of safety to hear about Islam, does not mean what you say it does.

    If a Kaafir surrenders, then he becomes either ransomed, enslaved or killed. That is what you got wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    and you claim an Arabic name. allahul aalam.
    I didn't claim anything. Unlike you, a coward, I use an actual name online with which I can be identified offline. I'm not ashamed nor do I hide behind anonymity like you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    ... you can't expect the Esteemed Ulema or scholars to refute each and every of these 100's of twisted claims of the Apologetics . ...
    The problem you have is thinking that the Verse of the Sword needs the kind of 'refutation' you're attempting. For the person who is ignorant about Tafseer, Naskh wal-Mansukh, Ulum al-Hadith, Asbab an-Nuzul, Fiqh, Usul al-Fiqh and other sciences, there is no place for you in 'refutations' dealing with those areas.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    these are not like fiqh issues or disputable grey areas for which you need Fatwas and declarations and support of The Scholars.
    That statement right there is precisely why you are incapable of discussing the issue- you don't even know what the scholars have determined about the verses you are attempting to explain.

    Every verse of the Quran which deals with fighting or interacting with Disbelievers is 'a Fiqh issue' and a potentially 'disputable grey area for which you need Fatwas and declarations and support of the Scholars.' You have wrongly assumed otherwise and either due to inability or simple ignorance, have chosen to deal with a verse of the Quran- which requires Fiqh and legal precedence from the scholars of Islam- as a play thing and a matter of interpreting whatever you wish from unrelated Hadith and history.

    What you have done and said is criminal in Islam.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    In another Hadith said something like not to take scholars as rab so we have to use our Allah swt given brain too and use reasoning and facts IN THE LIGHT OF NOBLE QURAN< HADITHS AND ACTIONS OF SAHABAS.


    Really? A Hadith said not to take 'our scholars as rab'? I'd like to see that Hadith in Arabic and English if you are truthful and not lying upon our Messenger, peace and salutations of Allah upon him. That's the problem with people like you who speak about Islam from their whims and desires- you're not ashamed of or afraid to say things which are not true about the Prophet SAWS or about our Shari'ah.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    Least but not the last , I am not babbling but giving proofs from The Noble Quran ,hadiths and seerah So kindly control your words and rhetoric and at least do not babble or
    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    obstruct against people like us if you yourselves cant do any good or defend or do not want to defend Islam in any way.
    You provided ZERO PROOF for your conclusion. Stop pretending that you did.

    Obstructing 'people like you' is exactly the type of work that 'people like me' are forced to engage in which really just distracts us from our work in translating, publishing and educating Muslims.

    You are a person who has no business whatsoever dealing with legal rulings in Islam and you are harming yourself in the process of doing the equivalent of wearing your underwear over a spandex body suit, a mask and a cape, and running around trying to beat up imaginary enemies you call 'apologetics'. To anyone who knows a little about the laws of Islam, you look ridiculous. Unfortunately I'm not sure the casual visitor to this part of the forum knows anything about Fiqh or Tafseer and their principles. That makes what you do dangerous.

    If you wrote the nonsense you have in this thread on your own website, I wouldn't bother with you.
    Last edited by AbuNajm; 08-10-15 at 01:47 PM.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post


    If you think those two things above are 'proofs' in Islam then you are astray without a doubt.

    The conclusion you made is the problem, not the chronological progression:



    The above conclusion is false and is not what our Quran, Sunnah and resulting Shari'ah dictate. All the proofs you brought were regarding what was legislated before the abrogating Verse of the Sword and the exception to that verse, the verse which allowed for Kuffar to seek a guarantee of safety to hear about Islam, does not mean what you say it does.

    If a Kaafir surrenders, then he becomes either ransomed, enslaved or killed. That is what you got wrong.



    I didn't claim anything. Unlike you, a coward, I use an actual name online with which I can be identified offline. I'm not ashamed nor do I hide behind anonymity like you do.



    The problem you have is thinking that the Verse of the Sword needs the kind of 'refutation' you're attempting. For the person who is ignorant about Tafseer, Naskh wal-Mansukh, Ulum al-Hadith, Asbab an-Nuzul, Fiqh, Usul al-Fiqh and other sciences, there is no place for you in 'refutations' dealing with those areas.



    That statement right there is precisely why you are incapable of discussing the issue- you don't even know what the scholars have determined about the verses you are attempting to explain.

    Every verse of the Quran which deals with fighting or interacting with Disbelievers is 'a Fiqh issue' and a potentially 'disputable grey area for which you need Fatwas and declarations and support of the Scholars.' You have wrongly assumed otherwise and either due to inability or simple ignorance, have chosen to deal with a verse of the Quran- which requires Fiqh and legal precedence from the scholars of Islam- as a play thing and a matter of interpreting whatever you wish from unrelated Hadith and history.

    What you have done and said is criminal in Islam.



    Really? A Hadith said not to take 'our scholars as rab'? I'd like to see that Hadith in Arabic and English if you are truthful and not lying upon our Messenger, peace and salutations of Allah upon him. That's the problem with people like you who speak about Islam from their whims and desires- you're not ashamed of or afraid to say things which are not true about the Prophet SAWS or about our Shari'ah.



    You provided ZERO PROOF for your conclusion. Stop pretending that you did.

    Obstructing 'people like you' is exactly the type of work that 'people like me' are forced to engage in which really just distracts us from our work in translating, publishing and educating Muslims.

    You are a person who has no business whatsoever dealing with legal rulings in Islam and you are harming yourself in the process of doing the equivalent of wearing your underwear over a spandex body suit, a mask and a cape, and running around trying to beat up imaginary enemies you call 'apologetics'. To anyone who knows a little about the laws of Islam, you look ridiculous. Unfortunately I'm not sure the casual visitor to this part of the forum knows anything about Fiqh or Tafseer and their principles. That makes what you do dangerous.

    If you wrote the nonsense you have in this thread on your own website, I wouldn't bother with you.
    Am not free enough to answer your absurd claims and my claim that the hadith which said something like do not do like the Jews who took their scholars as rab is a very famous renowned hadith and you say you do not shows you are really learned abunajm, father of star right ? Lol,I am guessing its a Christian name right ?, I do not know arabic. It should be father of ignorance, instead , Just Google and see that hadith and Now all your claims on me in post #11 reciprocates only to you,lol , . that's a hadith too, think you do not either know it too. Since post # 9 with many as 6 Scholars prove you are THE Jahil, too
    Last edited by talibilm09; 13-10-15 at 04:28 PM.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post


    If you think those two things above are 'proofs' in Islam then you are astray without a doubt.

    The conclusion you made is the problem, not the chronological progression:



    The above conclusion is false and is not what our Quran, Sunnah and resulting Shari'ah dictate. All the proofs you brought were regarding what was legislated before the abrogating Verse of the Sword and the exception to that verse, the verse which allowed for Kuffar to seek a guarantee of safety to hear about Islam, does not mean what you say it does.

    If a Kaafir surrenders, then he becomes either ransomed, enslaved or killed. That is what you got wrong.



    I didn't claim anything. Unlike you, a coward, I use an actual name online with which I can be identified offline. I'm not ashamed nor do I hide behind anonymity like you do.



    The problem you have is thinking that the Verse of the Sword needs the kind of 'refutation' you're attempting. For the person who is ignorant about Tafseer, Naskh wal-Mansukh, Ulum al-Hadith, Asbab an-Nuzul, Fiqh, Usul al-Fiqh and other sciences, there is no place for you in 'refutations' dealing with those areas.



    That statement right there is precisely why you are incapable of discussing the issue- you don't even know what the scholars have determined about the verses you are attempting to explain.

    Every verse of the Quran which deals with fighting or interacting with Disbelievers is 'a Fiqh issue' and a potentially 'disputable grey area for which you need Fatwas and declarations and support of the Scholars.' You have wrongly assumed otherwise and either due to inability or simple ignorance, have chosen to deal with a verse of the Quran- which requires Fiqh and legal precedence from the scholars of Islam- as a play thing and a matter of interpreting whatever you wish from unrelated Hadith and history.

    What you have done and said is criminal in Islam.



    Really? A Hadith said not to take 'our scholars as rab'? I'd like to see that Hadith in Arabic and English if you are truthful and not lying upon our Messenger, peace and salutations of Allah upon him. That's the problem with people like you who speak about Islam from their whims and desires- you're not ashamed of or afraid to say things which are not true about the Prophet SAWS or about our Shari'ah.



    You provided ZERO PROOF for your conclusion. Stop pretending that you did.

    Obstructing 'people like you' is exactly the type of work that 'people like me' are forced to engage in which really just distracts us from our work in translating, publishing and educating Muslims.

    You are a person who has no business whatsoever dealing with legal rulings in Islam and you are harming yourself in the process of doing the equivalent of wearing your underwear over a spandex body suit, a mask and a cape, and running around trying to beat up imaginary enemies you call 'apologetics'. To anyone who knows a little about the laws of Islam, you look ridiculous. Unfortunately I'm not sure the casual visitor to this part of the forum knows anything about Fiqh or Tafseer and their principles. That makes what you do dangerous.

    If you wrote the nonsense you have in this thread on your own website, I wouldn't bother with you.
    one thing is clear, from the type of attitude and language you use to abuse other Muslims, it is indeed clear that nobody should take your interpretations seriously.
    Be careful who you call Kafir because only Allah knows who is truly a rejector and who is merely a misguided person. It is not up to us to "sentence" a person to the Hellfire.

    The Questions you Questioned will be Questioned in the day of judgement

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    Am not free enough to answer your absurd claims and my claim that the hadith which said something like do not do like the Jews who took their scholars as rab is a very famous renowned hadith and you say you do not
    I know the Hadith which says the Christians and Jews took their monks and rabbis as Lords by means of Shirk at-Ta'ah. It was recorded by at-Tirmidhi, at-Tabarani, al-Bayhaqi and Ibn Jarir at-Tabari. Many scholars considered it to be 'fair' or 'Hasan' in its grade.

    However you claimed there is a Hadith which says for us not to take our scholars as a Rabb. No such Hadith exists. That's the problem you are having- you are reckless with your wording when you should be careful in attributing things to Hadith.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    shows you are really learned abunajm, father of star right ? Lol,I am guessing its a Christian name right ?
    I'm not here to show I'm learned. I'm here to help those who will accept it.

    Not that it's any of your business, nor is it relevant to the discussion, but my son's name is 'Najm'. Yes, I am his father and we are both Muslim, al-Hamdu li-Llahi.

    I may not be learned, but you surely are shameless.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    I do not know arabic. It should be father of ignorance instead,
    Subhan Allah! You want to discuss Islam and argue about it and you don't know Arabic? And you call me 'father of ignorance'?

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    Just Google and see that hadith and your claim on me reciprocates to you,lol, . that's a hadith too, think you do not either know it.
    Is that how you drafted your original post- Google? It shows. Google can't tell you what I've told you about the verse you're trying to discuss. Discussing the meaning of the Quran and the rulings that result from it is useless for a person who doesn't know Arabic. Your English isn't up to par either.

    I hope people are able to see now why you have no business discussing the Deen- you don't know Arabic, rely on Google, and you are shameless.

    May Allah forgive you and us. Ameen.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hate Racism View Post
    one thing is clear, from the type of attitude and language you use to abuse other Muslims, it is indeed clear that nobody should take your interpretations seriously.
    He is a joke of a student of knowledge if I remember correctly he once came up with a retarded analogy between slaves in Sharia and migrant workers in the peninsula. He had to recant that in the very thread. There are a number of incidents of him demonstrating his pathetic ignorance of Sharia and despicable akhlaq if you go through threads on Islamic Awakening. He is ibn al Iskander there.

    He also got exposed for his incompetence in Arabic by other actual students of knowledge who have trained for years. He has youtube videos exposing his weakness in tajweed and his bad Arabic(if he jas not taken them down yet.) This fellow is trying to translate at Tabari and he fails at Arabic and tajweed...pathetic.

    Also he has a long history of insulting Muslims, trying to act like a bigshot student of knowledge and humiliate others. He got totally humiliated on Islamic Awakening when actual students of knowledge realized he is a jahil with delusions of grandeur.


    Don't take his silly "Arabic knowledge" or any claims seriously. He is an arrogant ignorant liar who can't stop playing the student of knowledge, kind of like fraud doctors with delusions play actual doctors before getting exposed(and some migrate and continue to fool others who haven't learned they are frauds.)

    The layman who recognizes his position is above this fraud.
    Last edited by islammission; 08-10-15 at 03:15 PM.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    Many of Our Scholars are busy fighting within themselves and fighting within Muslim ourselves with the fatwas so they are least interested or not free enough to indulge in such issues like which we are talking about that are raised by islamaphobes.. Think you are from such groups too.

    Sorry I do not belong to such groups. My stance is supported by Dr Zakir Naik speeches and you will claim he is not a scholar then. If you had read carefully Salahudeen Ayubi ( Rahimahullah) the undisputed Islamic Hero during crusades enacted this verse exactly during crusades think you missed it to read well my post . And i had used Tafsir ibn abbas and others to claim what I claim with supporting historical dates, incidents and hadiths . So If you are against the welfare of islam hiding the facts and figures I used to prove my stance its upto you and you claim an Arabic name. allahul aalam.

    These are simple issues mischieviously raised by the Apologetics and you can't expect the Esteemed Ulema or scholars to refute each and every of these 100's of twisted claims of the Apologetics . If you are Sincere Muslim you can try, Allah swt will open they ways to understanding for proof of what I say read my post # 9 http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...s-a-true-ulema and these are not like fiqh issues or disputable grey areas for which you need Fatwas and declarations and support of The Scholars.

    In another Hadith said something like not to take scholars as rab so we have to use our Allah swt given brain too and use reasoning and facts IN THE LIGHT OF NOBLE QURAN< HADITHS AND ACTIONS OF SAHABAS. Least but not the last , I am not babbling but giving proofs from The Noble Quran ,hadiths and seerah So kindly control your words and rhetoric and at least do not babble or obstruct against people like us if you yourselves cant do any good or defend or do not want to defend Islam in any way.
    Don't waste your time on this. He spent years perfecting his act as a quack psuedo student of knowledge. He has a heavy history of dragging people into arguments-perhaps seeing Muslims progress makes him feel jealous so he attempts to drag them down in arguments.

    This man has a capacity to argue that will exhaust you. He feeds of it. And he is a fraud. You need to trust me when I say-don't waste your time on him. It is not worth it. At all. He seeks to puff himself up as someone with knowledge but he is an atrocious man. If Allah willed he would not be this way. Turn away and do what you need to do and ignore him. If he gives you salams respond. If he attempts to "discuss politely" he is a jahil unworthy of discussing and this attempt is nothing more then a means of dragging you into an argument.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    I know the Hadith which says the Christians and Jews took their monks and rabbis as Lords by means of Shirk at-Ta'ah. It was recorded by at-Tirmidhi, at-Tabarani, al-Bayhaqi and Ibn Jarir at-Tabari. Many scholars considered it to be 'fair' or 'Hasan' in its grade.

    However you claimed there is a Hadith which says for us not to take our scholars as a Rabb. No such Hadith exists. That's the problem you are having- you are reckless with your wording when you should be careful in attributing things to Hadith.



    I'm not here to show I'm learned. I'm here to help those who will accept it.

    Not that it's any of your business, nor is it relevant to the discussion, but my son's name is 'Najm'. Yes, I am his father and we are both Muslim, al-Hamdu li-Llahi.

    I may not be learned, but you surely are shameless.



    Subhan Allah! You want to discuss Islam and argue about it and you don't know Arabic? And you call me 'father of ignorance'?



    Is that how you drafted your original post- Google? It shows. Google can't tell you what I've told you about the verse you're trying to discuss. Discussing the meaning of the Quran and the rulings that result from it is useless for a person who doesn't know Arabic. Your English isn't up to par either.

    I hope people are able to see now why you have no business discussing the Deen- you don't know Arabic, rely on Google, and you are shameless.

    May Allah forgive you and us. Ameen.
    What about not knowing Arabic and learning Islam? Allah has gifted each person different languages and put them in different regions, does this mean people who cant speak arabic should not learn Islam? what on earth are you preaching here?

    ''Google'' is not some portal to destruction, he is saying you to refer to the hadith through a search engine which is easier than turning of pages of a real book because digital world brings it to the finger tips

    i have showed you different tafsirs and its interpretations, you cant chose one you like and abuse other muslims who are working hard to do dawah in this forum.
    Be careful who you call Kafir because only Allah knows who is truly a rejector and who is merely a misguided person. It is not up to us to "sentence" a person to the Hellfire.

    The Questions you Questioned will be Questioned in the day of judgement

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hate Racism View Post
    What about not knowing Arabic and learning Islam? Allah has gifted each person different languages and put them in different regions, does this mean people who cant speak arabic should not learn Islam? what on earth are you preaching here?

    ''Google'' is not some portal to destruction, he is saying you to refer to the hadith through a search engine which is easier than turning of pages of a real book because digital world brings it to the finger tips

    i have showed you different tafsirs and its interpretations, you cant chose one you like and abuse other muslims who are working hard to do dawah in this forum.
    Google is better than this fraud. At least you can reach a fatwa site or a website of actual ulema or tullab. Then again, Google can lead you to him.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by islammission View Post
    He is a joke of a student of knowledge if I remember correctly he once came up with a retarded analogy between slaves in Sharia and migrant workers in the peninsula. He had to recant that in the very thread. There are a number of incidents of him demonstrating his pathetic ignorance of Sharia and despicable akhlaq if you go through threads on Islamic Awakening. He is ibn al Iskander there.

    He also got exposed for his incompetence in Arabic by other actual students of knowledge who have trained for years. He has youtube videos exposing his weakness in tajweed and his bad Arabic(if he jas not taken them down yet.) This fellow is trying to translate at Tabari and he fails at Arabic and tajweed...pathetic.

    Also he has a long history of insulting Muslims, trying to act like a bigshot student of knowledge and humiliate others. He got totally humiliated on Islamic Awakening when actual students of knowledge realized he is a jahil with delusions of grandeur.


    Don't take his silly "Arabic knowledge" or any claims seriously. He is an arrogant ignorant liar who can't stop playing the student of knowledge, kind of like fraud doctors with delusions play actual doctors before getting exposed(and some migrate and continue to fool others who haven't learned they are frauds.)

    The layman who recognizes his position is above this fraud.
    his use of language and his ''claim'' of knowledge does not look like a match made in heaven.

    anybody that gets in his way is an ignorant loser for him, sadly i am yet to see anybody that agrees with him
    Be careful who you call Kafir because only Allah knows who is truly a rejector and who is merely a misguided person. It is not up to us to "sentence" a person to the Hellfire.

    The Questions you Questioned will be Questioned in the day of judgement

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hate Racism View Post
    his use of language and his ''claim'' of knowledge does not look like a match made in heaven.

    anybody that gets in his way is an ignorant loser for him, sadly i am yet to see anybody that agrees with him
    He is an ignorant joke and fraud. How would anyone conflate abused migrant workers in Saudi and actual slaves in the Sharia? It was so stupid it didn't take a while for him to recant, he had to recant it in that thread after everyone was like "what?". Actual tullab have called him out as he is a jahil.

    Not only that he;

    trolls and trolls and trolls

    Drags people who could be doing something beneficial into "discussions" and arguments

    You've seen his character here. Trust me he is not different elsewhere. Ignorance and arrogance are a deadly combination and sadly, often combined.

    His ego tripping is all over the place. As you've seen and as others have seen.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by islammission View Post
    He is an ignorant joke and fraud. How would anyone conflate abused migrant workers in Saudi and actual slaves in the Sharia? It was so stupid it didn't take a while for him to recant, he had to recant it in that thread after everyone was like "what?". Actual tullab have called him out as he is a jahil.

    Not only that he;

    trolls and trolls and trolls

    Drags people who could be doing something beneficial into "discussions" and arguments

    You've seen his character here. Trust me he is not different elsewhere. Ignorance and arrogance are a deadly combination and sadly, often combined.

    His ego tripping is all over the place. As you've seen and as others have seen.
    As Nouman Ali Khan states about this Surah

    This surah is misused by two types of extreme people: people who are influenced by their anger of what's going on around the world, against the Muslims; the others are enemies of Islam who use it to make arguments against Muslims. However there is also a third group of 'silent scholarship' that basically hasn't done enough in exposing a proper understanding of this issue.
    Be careful who you call Kafir because only Allah knows who is truly a rejector and who is merely a misguided person. It is not up to us to "sentence" a person to the Hellfire.

    The Questions you Questioned will be Questioned in the day of judgement

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    @islammission

    brother lets not fall into the same category of ignorance and insulting fellow Muslims, i think the best medicine here is to ignore such people.
    Be careful who you call Kafir because only Allah knows who is truly a rejector and who is merely a misguided person. It is not up to us to "sentence" a person to the Hellfire.

    The Questions you Questioned will be Questioned in the day of judgement

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hate Racism View Post
    @islammission

    brother lets not fall into the same category of ignorance and insulting fellow Muslims, i think the best medicine here is to ignore such people.
    The only reason I did it is because he can fool some Muslims who don't know him for what he is.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by islammission View Post
    The only reason I did it is because he can fool some Muslims who don't know him for what he is.
    all i am saying is, its fine to share a different point of view

    but its insane when people abuse fellow Muslims without respect to each other. The person started it all but i think we should not fall into his footsteps

    May Allah make his and our hearts calm and cool Insha Allah.
    Be careful who you call Kafir because only Allah knows who is truly a rejector and who is merely a misguided person. It is not up to us to "sentence" a person to the Hellfire.

    The Questions you Questioned will be Questioned in the day of judgement

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hate Racism View Post
    all i am saying is, its fine to share a different point of view

    but its insane when people abuse fellow Muslims without respect to each other. The person started it all but i think we should not fall into his footsteps

    May Allah make his and our hearts calm and cool Insha Allah.
    And fearful and humble and not arrogant. Oh Allah make it happen!

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by islammission View Post
    And fearful and humble and not arrogant. Oh Allah make it happen!
    Ameen brother
    Be careful who you call Kafir because only Allah knows who is truly a rejector and who is merely a misguided person. It is not up to us to "sentence" a person to the Hellfire.

    The Questions you Questioned will be Questioned in the day of judgement

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by islammission View Post
    The only reason I did it is because he can fool some Muslims who don't know him for what he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hate Racism View Post
    all i am saying is, its fine to share a different point of view

    but its insane when people abuse fellow Muslims without respect to each other. The person started it all but i think we should not fall into his footsteps

    May Allah make his and our hearts calm and cool Insha Allah.
    Asalamalikum dear brothers, I was fortunate enough to be on a oversea travel and attending marriage and avoided this crazy fanatic who doesn't even know the meaning of Islam, seems he is addicted to some fanatic sites

    I agree with both of you as this abunajm (father of stars, he is THE LIAR he said before that ' Abunajm' is his true name in post # 14 &17 , and now he U turns saying Najm is his son's name, so, didn't he have a name before his son's birth ? and another lie about the hadith is he refused such hadith existed in post # 11 and battered me which will only reciprocate to him inshallah ( by hadith) and later he twists his words ) I had already had doubts before a few months about his intentions on the prosperity of Islam when i read one of his replies to a member at the lounge section (i think) and felt he is a TROLL before a few months itelf and bro Islamission confirms my doubt as trolls can be mostly non muslims but Muslims as well. Allah swt only know who he is as there are people who speak Arabic like Sam Shamoun but are enemies of Islam.though I don't take the risk of calling him a hypocrite YET, but he has 2 signs of type1 type 2 in this link http://www.quranandhadith.com/hypocrisy-2/ ) He had insulted Hafiz Salaudeen Ayubi Rahmathullah alay, as astray who is a Awliyallah choosen as the Caliph by the Ulema and Fiqha of those times who was the reason behind saving of our Prophet 's blessed body mubarak from the Crusaders had and this has degraded Abunajm to become the lowest in my view

    see this short link about this great personality, THE STAR who lived in the foot steps of our Prophet inspite being the ruler of 5 big countries but died without any assets but a few dirhams and his armour , Subhanallah , what a Muhmin after 6 centuries after our Top rightly guided caliphs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi2JuunStdc

    Mashallah you both are an Asset to the Ummah.com and its fortunate that Ummah has such members with wisdom like you and self restraint and I am happy to be among the company such people who are few left on this Globe. may Allah swt give me the same to me. Ameen
    Last edited by talibilm09; 13-10-15 at 05:27 PM.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    Asalamalikum dear brothers, I was fortunate enough to be on a oversea travel and attending marriage and avoided this crazy fanatic who doesn't even know the meaning of Islam, seems he is addicted to some fanatic sites

    I agree with both of you as this abunajm (father of stars, he is liar he said before this, Abunajm is his true name and now he says Najm is his son's name, so didn't he have a name before his son's birth ? and another lie about the hadith is he refused such hadith existed in post # 11 and battered me which will only reciprocate to him ( by hadith) and later he twists his words ) I had already had doubts before a few months about his good intentions on the prosperity of Islam when i read one of his replies to a member at the lounge section (i think) and felt he is a TROLL before a few months itelf and bro Islamission confirms my doubt as trolls can be mostly non muslims but Muslims as well. Allah swt only know who he is as there are people who speak Arabic like Sam Shamoun but are enemies of Islam.though I don't take the risk of calling him a hypocrite YET, but he has 2 signs of type1 type 2 in this link http://www.quranandhadith.com/hypocrisy-2/ ) He had insulted Hafiz Salaudeen Ayubi Rahmathullah alay, as astray who is a Awliyallah choosen as the Caliph by the Ulema and Fiqha of those times who was the reason behind saving of our Prophet 's body mubarak from the crusaders had made this Abunajm to become the lowest in my view

    see this short link about this great personality who lived in the foot steps of our Prophet inspite being the ruler of 5 big countries but died without any assets but a few dirhams and his armour , Subhanallah , what a Muhmin after 6 centuries after our Top rightly guided caliphs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi2JuunStdc

    Mashallah you both are an Asset to the Ummah.com and its fortunate that Ummah has such members with wisdom like you and self restraint and I am happy to be among the company such people who are few left on this Globe. may Allah swt give me the same to me. Ameen
    JZK brother
    Be careful who you call Kafir because only Allah knows who is truly a rejector and who is merely a misguided person. It is not up to us to "sentence" a person to the Hellfire.

    The Questions you Questioned will be Questioned in the day of judgement

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    What exactly is the problem? I have realised when someone is confused or loses the debate they start degrading the other person and mocking them
    There is a difference of opinion on alot of what you have said

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post


    If you think those two things above are 'proofs' in Islam then you are astray without a doubt.

    The conclusion you made is the problem, not the chronological progression:



    The above conclusion is false and is not what our Quran, Sunnah and resulting Shari'ah dictate. All the proofs you brought were regarding what was legislated before the abrogating Verse of the Sword and the exception to that verse, the verse which allowed for Kuffar to seek a guarantee of safety to hear about Islam, does not mean what you say it does.

    If a Kaafir surrenders, then he becomes either ransomed, enslaved or killed. That is what you got wrong.



    I didn't claim anything. Unlike you, a coward, I use an actual name online with which I can be identified offline. I'm not ashamed nor do I hide behind anonymity like you do.



    The problem you have is thinking that the Verse of the Sword needs the kind of 'refutation' you're attempting. For the person who is ignorant about Tafseer, Naskh wal-Mansukh, Ulum al-Hadith, Asbab an-Nuzul, Fiqh, Usul al-Fiqh and other sciences, there is no place for you in 'refutations' dealing with those areas.



    That statement right there is precisely why you are incapable of discussing the issue- you don't even know what the scholars have determined about the verses you are attempting to explain.

    Every verse of the Quran which deals with fighting or interacting with Disbelievers is 'a Fiqh issue' and a potentially 'disputable grey area for which you need Fatwas and declarations and support of the Scholars.' You have wrongly assumed otherwise and either due to inability or simple ignorance, have chosen to deal with a verse of the Quran- which requires Fiqh and legal precedence from the scholars of Islam- as a play thing and a matter of interpreting whatever you wish from unrelated Hadith and history.

    What you have done and said is criminal in Islam.



    Really? A Hadith said not to take 'our scholars as rab'? I'd like to see that Hadith in Arabic and English if you are truthful and not lying upon our Messenger, peace and salutations of Allah upon him. That's the problem with people like you who speak about Islam from their whims and desires- you're not ashamed of or afraid to say things which are not true about the Prophet SAWS or about our Shari'ah.



    You provided ZERO PROOF for your conclusion. Stop pretending that you did.

    Obstructing 'people like you' is exactly the type of work that 'people like me' are forced to engage in which really just distracts us from our work in translating, publishing and educating Muslims.

    You are a person who has no business whatsoever dealing with legal rulings in Islam and you are harming yourself in the process of doing the equivalent of wearing your underwear over a spandex body suit, a mask and a cape, and running around trying to beat up imaginary enemies you call 'apologetics'. To anyone who knows a little about the laws of Islam, you look ridiculous. Unfortunately I'm not sure the casual visitor to this part of the forum knows anything about Fiqh or Tafseer and their principles. That makes what you do dangerous.

    If you wrote the nonsense you have in this thread on your own website, I wouldn't bother with you.
    bumped because the writer of the post does not remember where did he wrote to kill all the polytheisers

    FROM THE SCHOLAR & AUTHOR OF THE TAFSIR TAFHEEM UL QURAN .

    ''It seems as if the Verse of the Sword became a “sword” that would cut the heads of verses, leaving them lifeless and so their wordings would be recited yet with no meanings !


    The Verse of the Sword: Which One?


    Ironically enough, they ( Talibilms words: Scholars not Sahabas ) have differed as to which verse is the Verse of the Sword which is claimed to have abrogated those numerous verses of the Qur’an. However, they all agree that it is a verse from the Chapter of At-Tawbah. [Namely, it is one of the following verses:]

    1) “Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them…” (At-Tawbah: 5)

    2)“… and wage war on all the idolaters as they are waging war on all of you…” (At-Tawbah: 36)

    3)“Go forth, light (armed) and heavy (armed), and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah...” (At-Tawbah: 41)

    4)“Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the religion of truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.” (At-Tawbah: 29) ''



    But before its decided which verse it is and how abrogation could be effective lets take into account and keep in mind some of these verses of the Noble Quran and Hadith

    “… a Scripture the revelations whereof are perfected and then expounded. (It cometh) from One Wise, Informed.” (Hud: 1)

    and “Falsehood cannot come at it from before it or behind it. (It is) a revelation from the Wise, the Owner of Praise.” (Fussilat: 42)

    “And in whatsoever ye differ, the verdict therein belongeth to Allah…” (Ash-Shura: 10) ''

    So you can read more from this scholar on this issue http://www.onislam.net/english/shari...the-sword.html



    HADITHS TO KEEP IN MIND BEFORE DECIDING THE AUTHENTICATION OF ANY IMPORTANT MATTER IN ISLAM

    PROPHET GUARANTEED ONLY UNTILL TABE'IEN.

    Sayyidina lmran ibn Husayn (RA) reported that Allah’s Messenger said, The best of my ummah is the generation to which 1 have been sent, then they who will follow them.’ The narrator said, ‘And I do not remember if he mentioned the third (generation) or not, “After that’, the Prophet (SAW) said, “A people will come who will voluntarily give testimony, they will commit treachery and will not be trustworthy. They will be corpulent, generally. [Bukhari 2651]


    ASTRAY SCHOLARS
    Al Tirmidhi (no.2229) and others record the following hadith:
    abu Dhar said, "I was with the Prophet (SAW) one day and I heard him saing: "There is something I fear for my Ummah than the Dajjal." It was then that I became afraid, so I said: " Oh Rasool Allah! Which thing is that?" He (SAW) said; "Misguided and astray scholars''


    VIEWS OF MADHABI IMAAMS AND SCHOLARS

    Imam Ahmad bin Hambal reportedly used to say that anyone claiming ijma' (after the age of suhaba) is a liar.(40)

    In his Itiqan [Perfection], the prominent scholar, As-Suyuti, quoted Ibn Al-Hasar’s saying: “Abrogation is identified through an explicit transmission either from the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) or from a Companion [Sahabi] where he said that a certain verse abrogated another certain verse.”He also said, “Abrogation is not to be established on the basis of a statement of an Exegete nor on personal reasoning [ijtihad] as long as there is no authentic transmission or clear contradiction. This is because abrogation includes the removal of a [shar`i] ruling and the establishment of [another] ruling, [and this should have been] confirmed during the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). This [confirmation] is to be authenticated through transmission and history, not through personal reasoning and opinions.”[8]


    The above reminders Prove if you want to speak about such VERY IMPORTANT matters about the Noble Quran and its verses abrogating never speak WITHOUT SOLID & EXPLICIT proofs except from the Sahih Hadiths AND Statements of renowned Sahabas or inferd from their actions or from Tabeien, at the least to its validity with proofs from Prophet and his Sahabas.

    .

    PROOFS MUST BE AS CLEAR CUT & EXPLICIT LIKE THE FOLLOWING HADITH ABOUT ABROGATION

    Narrated salama: When the Divine Revelation: "For those who can fast, they had a choice either fast, or feed a poor for every day," (2.184) was revealed, it was permissible for one to give a ransom and give up fasting, till the Verse succeeding it was revealed and abrogated it. ( bukari Book #60 , Hadith #34)

    Note :o know ''Abrogation '' though a wrong translation or term and how does it work and the purpose behind have agood read here http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...-Contradicting


    As per the above hadith by Mother of Believers, Salama (ra) IF THE succeeding verse CAN ABROGATE THE PREVIOUS verse IMPLIES succeeding verse of tauba 9:6 ( escort the polytheisers to safety ) will abrogate the previous verse of 9:5 (Kill the polytheisers) which will not make sense When they are just next to next. Since once they are killed , How are we going to escort them ? Don't we know that Allah swt says the Noble Quran is from him and without contradictions !!! ? so We have to understand the CONTEXT of why and when such verses are revealed and how they were implemented by the Prophet and his companions.

    And the Context is very visible in the first 14 verses of the Sura tauba http://legacy.quran.com/9/1-14 and this thread
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...rse-9-5-say-So

    9:13 ''Will you not fight a people who have violated their oaths (pagans of Makkah) and intended to expel the Messenger, while they did attack you first? Do you fear them? Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are believers.

    and also verse 9:4 and 9:7 specifies in which CONTEXT such verses were told and the most basic is being the Prohibition of polytheists pilgrimage to the Kaaba who also did it nude with whistling and clapping was their worship ( 8:35 ). lets see them

    9:4 ''Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].

    9:7 ''.....................................So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].''

    9: 28 ''O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram after this, their [final] year............''

    9:29.'' Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.



    NOTE : It can't be denied those who strive in the path of Allah with wealth and their lives are the best but doing it without proper guidance of the noble Quran may earn Sins than virtues so in the worst scenario a Polytheist who did not attack Islam or kill muslims cannot be executed but only can be expelled , rather escorted out of the Arabian Peninsula, at the most.. This is the reason why 14 million kafirs are still living in ME who are the citizens and affordable among them are paying Jizzya.
    Last edited by talibilm09; 18-10-15 at 04:42 PM.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by abufulaans View Post
    What exactly is the problem? I have realised when someone is confused or loses the debate they start degrading the other person and mocking them
    There is a difference of opinion on alot of what you have said
    You are the person who could not even comprehend mod Ali's explanation of Imam Shafis view on the spy and his status as Muslim or kaffir. You are ignorant yourself and who can help you if you refuse to listen? The one who us confused and has lost is you.

    Pointing out someones ignorance (like yours) is not wrong. Yes it signals the end of the debate, not because others are confused and have lost but because you are too ignorant and deaf to comprehend the issues at hand. Islam is not a free for all with every jahil having the right to discuss fiqh.

    Everything I said about the fraud Abu Najm ibn al Iskander is true.

    And you are the one confused and lost-anyone seeing how you actually responded to the moderater Ali who cited Imam as Shafi can see that.
    Last edited by islammission; 14-10-15 at 03:53 PM.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by islammission View Post
    You are the person who could not even comprehend mod Ali's explanation of Imam Shafis view on the spy and his status as Muslim or kaffir. You are ignorant yourself and who can help you if you refuse to listen? The one who us confused and has lost is you.

    Pointing out someones ignorance (like yours) is not wrong. Yes it signals the end of the debate, not because others are confused and have lost but because you are too ignorant and deaf to comprehend the issues at hand. Islam is not a free for all with every jahil having the right to discuss fiqh.

    Everything I said about the fraud Abu Najm ibn al Iskander is true.

    And you are the one confused and lost-anyone seeing how you actually responded to the moderater Ali who cited Imam as Shafi can see that.
    What sort of reply is this?

    He stopped debating because he himself knew there might be ikhtilaaf (or in fact that his opinion was weak), why don't you ask him?
    I am actually following clear proofs, I am not confused at all, we can re discuss that topic if you wish, even though I proved you all wrong, or will you run away again? The thread is still there for us all to see

    And ye I guess them 10s if scholars I take from today who see Aiding Kuffar against Muslims are also all jahil who say what I say, who say the same about spying aswell
    Last edited by abufulaans; 14-10-15 at 06:04 PM.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    kill the polytheists that want to fight your Islam and with their ignorance, defend your self from them?
    problem is its not easy to understand the Quranic language, you need to analyse things in so many ways, so many will understand things in good way/ bad way/ weird way etc.

    evverything in quran is written in my point of view in the most accurate and fair way, you just need to understand what's the purpose behind it.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    bumped because the writer of the post does not remeber where did he wrote to kill all the polytheisers
    No reason to 'bump' the thread. Allah says in the Quran to kill all polytheists 9:5-

    {And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.}

    Islammission is on my ignore list so I can't see his nonsense to respond. Glad to see you've found another disrespectful, ignorant ally on this forum. You two make a good couple.

    Now you're on my ignore list.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    No reason to 'bump' the thread. Allah says in the Quran to kill all polytheists 9:5-

    {And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.}

    Islammission is on my ignore list so I can't see his nonsense to respond. Glad to see you've found another disrespectful, ignorant ally on this forum. You two make a good couple.

    Now you're on my ignore list.
    and you pretend as if the verse 9.6 does not exist?
    Be careful who you call Kafir because only Allah knows who is truly a rejector and who is merely a misguided person. It is not up to us to "sentence" a person to the Hellfire.

    The Questions you Questioned will be Questioned in the day of judgement

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by abufulaans View Post
    What sort of reply is this?

    He stopped debating because he himself knew there might be ikhtilaaf (or in fact that his opinion was weak), why don't you ask him?
    I am actually following clear proofs, I am not confused at all, we can re discuss that topic if you wish, even though I proved you all wrong, or will you run away again? The thread is still there for us all to see

    And ye I guess them 10s if scholars I take from today who see Aiding Kuffar against Muslims are also all jahil who say what I say, who say the same about spying aswell
    I take Imam Shafi over any of the "scholars" you follow even if they fill the earth let alone are in tens. There is no point discussing as I already said since you refuse to accept whay is obvious-the Salaf did not have the same view as your Salafi scholars did on this issue of takfir and spying, and there is no evidence they did. You are worse than confused-mislead since you take the wrong interpretation of clear proofs which are against you.
    Last edited by islammission; 15-10-15 at 05:17 PM.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hate Racism View Post
    and you pretend as if the verse 9.6 does not exist?
    Ignore him, he just got totally exposed and can do nothing but hypocritically criticize our words while he has demonstrated the most despicable behavior. Often times the people criticizing bad words and character are the worst at it themselves! You got lucky this fraudulent jahil with a history of trolling on forums ignored you. He only puffs himself up and shows his "knowledge" he knows nothing. Other actual students of knowledge actually banned him since he was such a waste of time, a total troll with no respect for the Shariah and a fraud.
    Last edited by islammission; 15-10-15 at 05:21 PM.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    No reason to 'bump' the thread. Allah says in the Quran to kill all polytheists 9:5-

    {And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.}

    Islammission is on my ignore list so I can't see his nonsense to respond. Glad to see you've found another disrespectful, ignorant ally on this forum. You two make a good couple.

    Now you're on my ignore list.
    Glad I am on your ignore list you ignorant liar.


    Now lets bump it up. Again and again. I don't mind repeatedly exposing you everywhere you are-you have a history, a long one of playing the student of knowledge, behaving despicably when anyone calls you out on your incomptence, ignorance, despicable character and flat out lack of respect for the Shariah.


    I still remember the reading this fellow stupidly conflating migrant workers in the peninsula and slaves in Sharia. May Allah save the ummah from hypocritical frauds like yourself Abu Najm ibn Al Iskander.
    Last edited by islammission; 15-10-15 at 05:31 PM.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    If anyone would like to see this arrogant fool not only demonstrate breathtaking ignorance in fiqh(and pathetic mistakes in Arabic) but also shockingly despicable character, check out the threads on Islamic Awakening forum. He is ibn al Iskander there. Once he was exposed there as a jahil he trolled until he was banned and now he is on this forum. He also trolled on Multaqa

    Thankfully his ridiculous comments have not been deleted there and should be available for everyone to see.

    Anyone who values his deen and believes in Allah and the Last Day should either ignore this man or face the whatever will happen to those who give ear to the ignorant. You are not just accountable for what you say but what you listen to.

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    Re: Kill All the Polytheists , Did the Verse 9:5 , say So ?

    Quote Originally Posted by islammission View Post
    I take Imam Shafi over any of the "scholars" you follow even if they fill the earth let alone are in tens. There is no point discussing as I already said since you refuse to accept whay is obvious-the Salaf did not have the same view as your Salafi scholars did on this issue of takfir and spying, and there is no evidence they did. You are worse than confused-mislead since you take the wrong interpretation of clear proofs which are against you.
    Im ready to discuss the topic again and i am only more sure now that what I said is correct
    The thread is still there, you can carry on with these degrading comments of 'your confused,your misled', or you can discuss the topic, your choice.....

 

 

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