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    Odan talibilm09's Avatar
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    'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Hi, Peace & greetings to those who seek Guidance,

    Apologetics on line have made it as a big business (Get donations) by attacking the Noble Quran and Its Prophet just to cheat the common man (All, Christians, Jews & Muslims) by Twisting, hiding those verses. Let see some methods how they TWIST the verses of the Noble Quran from their correct meaning.

    1) They never EVEN TRY to refer Why and when those verses were revealed and thats lead to quote them out of Context.

    2)The meaning of a particular verse can also understood by referring to the preceding or the proceeding verse which most of the Apologetics do not care or many times hide them.

    3)Its important to know the whole Quran because many times one verse from one Sura acts as an explanation or Tafsir for the Other verse somewhere in the other sura in an correlated manner like these two verses http://quran.com/17/1 and http://quran.com/53/12-18 and there are many like them.

    4) Also is the remembrance of Hadith and events and their explanation through the hadith or iow explanation or Tafsir is very important. Even knowledgeable Muslims are warned giving opinions of their own (as per hadith ) but refer to the related narration of hadith about a particular verse.

    5) More technicalities like revelation at the same time but distributed different chapters,also suras Like Sura 3 was revealed at 4 different periods etc etc , The first part revealed (1-80 verses) during the arrival of Christian delegation of Najran know from Two narrations of Sahabas one from Sahel bin Abu Umama (raa) ref: Bai haqi) and the next from Rabi(raa) ref: Ibn Abi Hateem and chain of Narrators) (ref Tafsir Ibn Abbas : the extended version in Urdu)

    6)Last but not the least just following all these things still won't be enough untill Allah swt opens our heart and makes us understand the real meaning of them and Allah does that Only to the righteous Pious people who gives them its understanding and who get guided so. and some more rules........which i have not written here

    So Lets start with the Most favourite & Strongest Argument fo the Chrisitian and Jewish Apologetics the verse 10:94 from Noble Quran


    (Noble Quran 10:94)
    '' And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.''



    ( Noble Quran inside brackets)Tafsir or explanation Ibn Abbas outside brackets

    (And if thou) O Muhammad (art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee) concerning that with which We sent Gabriel, i.e. the Qur'an, (then question those who read the Scripture) i.e. the Torah ((that was) before you) 'Abdullah Ibn Salam and his followers.The Prophet (pbuh) did not ask nor was he ever in doubt about the Qur'an. Rather, Allah was addressing with these words the people of the Prophet. (Verily the Truth from thy Lord) i.e. Gabriel with the Qur'an from your Lord, containing the events of past nations (hath come unto thee) O Muhammad. (So be not thou of the waverers) be not of the doubters.

    Elaboration: Could be only understood by seeing When and why this verse was revealed and its Aim. this was THE first chance For The NEW EMIGRANTS to Medina, THE Meccan Muslims,(623 AD) to ask any references from the Torah since Jewish Rabbis of Medina, Abdullah ibn Salam & group , Zayd Ibn Sanah Ibn have embraced Islam (extended tafsir says this verse was mainly intended to the Emigrant Meccan Muslims by addressing to the Prophet(pbuh) ) since they were polytheists not knowing about Gabriel or Scriptures before and that is proved by the FACT most of them were DEAD AGAINST ISLAM with very slow conversion UNLIKE the Polytheists of Medina, The Medinites, who were already acquainted with this Message ( One God,Gabriel, scriptures, after life etc and some notes) because they lived with the 3 Jewish tribes and who used to mock them (the Medinites or the natives of Medina (Yatrib) BOASTING, We Jews are the Chosen People of God and we will come with our Last Prophet and humiliate, belittle, and soon rule over you'' so thats why when the group of 7 or 8 of Medinite Youth who met Prophet (pbuh) at the trade fair in Mecca jumped right away into Islam in few minutes of Prophets words though they have never ever met him before nor asked for any Miracles and returned immediately to convert 80 % of their tribes right away without even Meeting the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

    So The above tafsir is clear enough it refers to asking IFwhether they had any Doubts about Gibraeel or Gabriel who brought the message of Quran was it real are not ? and about the Noble Quran, to check did they(jews) have corresponding same stories ( Adam, Noah,Abraham,Jacob etc etc) in the Torah or not ? since their Cheif Rabbis have sworn Oath of Allegiance to Islam and became devout muslims and its ONLY now the MUSLIMS can openly ask ( not awkward or ugly) from those converted Rabbis, their doubts about Gabriel or above mentioned stories are there in their books Or Not ?

    Verification Of Torah was not a Easy job those days are not like today many Printed Books found widespread
    But those times Scriptures were Hand written and very RARE and Strictly kept By ONLY THE FEW TOP RABBIS, and Abdullah Ibn salam was the MOST RESPECTED JEWISH RABBI FOR THE JEWS LIKE A POPE for the Christians Today and Listen To Abdullah Ibn Salam himself what he says in post # 11 http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...e-be-upon-him)
    But Prophet(pbuh)replied to the verse something like I will not ask anything from Abdullah ibn salam because I HAVE NO DOUBTS so no need to refer about anything AND WHY WOULD HE DOUBT WHEN HE ALREADY FLEW TO JERUSALEM AND THE SKIES AND MET MANY PROPHETS INCLUDING ABRAHAM , MOSES, JESUS ETC (PBU THEM ALL )

    IF DOUBTS OCCUR THEY SHOULD OCCUR WHEN THEY WERE NEW TO ISLAM WHEN HE RECEIVED THE REVELATIONS IN THE 1ST ,2ND OR THE 3RD YEAR AND 4 TH YEAR THE CHRISTIAN KING OF ABYSSINIA CONFIRMED THE SURAH19 MARYAM WAS FROM THE SAME SOURCE, THE TRUE ONE GOD OF THE GOSPEL AND EMBRACED ISLAM IMMEDIATELY and never even discussed the matter of Crucifictiuon AND THAT PROVES NO ONE CAN DOUBT AFTER 13 YEARS AFTER WATCHING Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) PERFORMING GREAT MIRACLES OF THE SPLITTING OF THE MOON ( http://quran.com/54/1-3 ), TRAVEL TO JERUSALEM & SKIES IN THE SAME NIGHT & BACK ( http://quran.com/17/1 , http://quran.com/53/12-15 ) OTHER MANY MIRACLES OF STONE, MOVING & talking, ON IKRIMAH'S REQUEST,Trees,many Animals talking ETC.
    So in this verse .The Christian apologetics Have NO CHANCE TO CLAIM ANYTHING since this Verse is explicitly about the Torah and the Jews.



    This verse was revealed in Medina (Yatrib,623 AD) when Prophet(pbuh) had Migrated From Mecca to Medina(Yatrib) after 10+3 (boycott)= 13 years of Gruesome Hardship where during His arrival the three Emigrant Jewish tribes of Medina who had come from the Civilized Developed Rome and Jerusalem only to receive the last Prophet foretold in their Books waiting for more than a century expecting him within themselves, The Jews, The Progeny of Issac but on knowing that the Prophet has come in the Progeny of Ishamel, The Arabs They the Jews made an U turn to reject Prophet Muhammad except some like Abdullah ibn Salam , Their Cheif And Rabbi and His Family and Group and Zayd Ibn Sanah, the Wealthiest Rabbi and Donated half of his wealth to Muslims and died as A Martyr.
    .

    This Verse actually ALSO PROVES Prophet(pbuh) untill then never checked or read Torah Or Gospel before unlike Apologetics claim and also Woraqa bin Naufal who was the first converted Christian & Learned Person to confirm that the Angel that Muhammad (pbuh) Met & saw was the same Angel who came to Jesus, Moses but had died after just a few days, as per sahih hadith, after Meeting Our Prophet (pbuh) and even after wards Prophet (pbuh) did not try to verify Torah also once Prophet(pbuh)'s face got red angry on seeing Umar(Raa) for reading the Torah at the Prophet's Masjid at Medina because If even Moses was there then he will reading the Noble Quran and Umar(Raa) apologised kneeling down saying '' I am satisfied with Allah as My Lord, Islam as my Deen (way of life) and Muhammad(Salalahu alihi wasallam) as My Nabi(Prophet)





    (Noble Quran 3:3-4)

    '' He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. Aforetime, for a guidance to mankind; and hath revealed the Criterion (of right and wrong). Lo! those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. Allah is Mighty, Able to Requite (the wrong)



    Tafsir Ibn Abbas(raa)

    (He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture) He sent you Gabriel with the Scripture (with truth) in order to show truth from falsehood, (confirming) corroborating Allah's divine Oneness (that which was (revealed) before it) of scriptures, (even as He revealed the Torah) in one go to Moses the son of Amran (and the Gospel) in one go to the Jesus the son of Mary.''(Aforetime) before Muhammad and the Qur'an, (for a guidance to mankind) as a guidance from error to the Children of Israel; (and hath revealed the Criterion (of right and wrong)) He revealed the Qur'an to Muhammad in instalments to differentiate the lawful from the unlawful. (Lo! those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah) Muhammad and the Qur'an, referring in this context to the delegation of Najran, (theirs will be a heavy doom) in this world and in the next. (Allah is Mighty) powerful in His vengeance, (Able to Requite (the wrong)) able to carry His vengeance out on them.

    Note: Apologetics claim this Quran verse confirms the Torah and the Gospel as the Guidance for All (including the muslims) but the tafsir says THE FURQAAN ( THE other Name of Quran) Or THE CRITERION which points out clearly what is Right Or Wrong, The Noble Quran was revealed 'in order to show (differentiate) truth from falsehood, corroborating or CONFIRMING Allah's divine Oneness '' IOW it refers those verses from Torah and Gospel confirming of the Oneness of Allah and rejecting falsehood WHICH WAS SENT AS GUIDANCE TO THOSE PEOPLE BEFORE (note : the word ' AFORETIME'610 AD approx refers to Jews & Christians) )that was still intact or Uncorrupted in those books at those times. Even NOW a few Such verses are seen such as God in one with no Form, God is not a man who Lies etc and also WARNS disbelievers oh a Heavy Punishment in both the worlds since Allah is all powerful to execute it.



    (Noble Quran 5:47)
    ''Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.''



    Tafsir Ibn abbas

    (Let the People of the Gospel judge) such that the people of the Gospel elucidate (by that which Allah hath revealed therein) that which Allah has elucidated in the Gospel regarding the traits and description of Muhammad (pbuh) and the legal ruling of stoning. (Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed) He says: whoever does not show that which Allah has elucidated in the Gospel; (such are evil-doers) transgressing disbelievers.

    Note: here the Verse refers to the Christians to judging or shed light or illuminate about the traits of the comforter which has been foretold in John regarding the traits of prophet Muhammad like https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...4+&version=CJB and which suits ONLY Muhammad(pbuh)[/B] The Prophet and also to use the law still intact, unaltered (those days during 623AD) regarding the verses of Stoning etc and Not to Hide them and who does hide them or Do not illuminate the truth are the rebellious and the Next verse strengthens this stance (explanation) more which is http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2

    In short (after using the next verse not displayed here) it refers Allah has revealed this Quran to differentiate between Truth & falsehood regarding rules & law of Allah's divine Oneness and some laws of stoning still in tact in the previous sripture and safe guarding them (some of those rules still remaining true in in tact) and Not to follow the Vain desire of Jews & Christians by deviating From Guidelines of the Noble Quran and.......there is more, kindly read for yourselves



    NOBLE (QURAN 10:64)

    ''Theirs are good tidings in the life of the world and in the Hereafter - There is no changing the Words of Allah - that is the Supreme Triumph.''



    Tafsir ibn Abbas
    ''(Theirs are good tidings in the life of the world) through good dream visions which they see or are seen in their favour (and in the Hereafter) by entering Paradise. (There is no changing the Words of Allah) that they will enter Paradise (that) good tiding (is the Supreme Triumph) the abounding salvation: they earn Paradise and all that is in it and are saved from hell and all that is in it.

    Note : Even Such a Clear verse as this are also Twisted by apologetics by just quoting ''There is no changing the Words of Allah '' ONLY and fail to explain or Hide the Preceding Part which talks about the promise of Glad tidings in this world and the Herafter and says the is no change in Allah's word about that Good News of Big success of Paradise and safety from the Hell THAT ALLAH HAS PROMISED TO THE BELIEVERS but instead the Mischeif makers try to realate this to their Scriptures and say that their books are in tact and unchanged which if false because Allah WARNS us in these Verses (2:174, 2:75,79, 3:78, 5:15, 5:13-14, 6:91, 7:162,2:87) that they have concealed, distorted, added verses changed their from Right places which is THE BIGGEST SIN for which they will pay for their own such Sins and also for the sins all those Masses they cunningly mislead



    (Quran 18:27)
    And recite that which hath been revealed unto thee of the Scripture of thy Lord. There is none who can change His words, and thou wilt find no refuge beside Him.


    Tafsir
    (And recite that which hath been revealed unto thee of the Scripture of thy Lord) He says: recite to them the Qur'an, neither increasing nor decreasing anything from it. (There is none who can change His words, and thou wilt find no refuge beside Him) beside Allah.

    Note: Here it refers to the recitation of Noble Quran given to thee ,Muhanmmad(pbuh) (unlike the Jews who hid some verses and added some) without increasing or decreasing IOW not changing by concealing or adding because no one has the Authority to change Allah's words.




    (Noble Quran 29:46)
    '' And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our God and your God is One, and unto Him we surrender.''



    Tafsir

    ''(And argue not with the People of the Scripture) the Jews and Christians (unless it be in (a way) that is better) i.e. by the Qur'an, (save with such of them as do wrong) from among the delegation of Najran, then you can do so by means of Mula'anah; (and say: We believe in that which has been revealed unto us) i.e. the Qur'an (and revealed unto you) the Torah and the Gospel; (our God and your God is One) He has no son or partner, (and unto Him we surrender) we are sincere to Him in our worship and profession of Allah's divine Oneness, and we believe in Him.

    This verse teaches method of dawah to argue politely as much as possible but gives us the permission to be tough when the opposite side behave unfair as in the case of delegation of Najran Christians (who were arguing too much that lead to Prophet(pbuh) calling to a for Mubahala (Imprecation)or the open swearing of Allah's curse & torment to be on the Liars at which they backed off on their priest's warning http://www.ezsoftech.com/islamic/mubahila.asp ) and also teaches to start with matters which are in common iow talk about the things we agree like One God and his books.Its also known from hadith narrators when Jews try to teach Muslims by translating their books into Arabic prophet told them something like to listen but not to believe or disbelieve in them because the Muslims did not knew Hebrew but say in common that those books were from Our same God who is one who send those books earlier and the Noble Quran to us.But their books did not have porn content those days and were not tampered to the level which is today.

    This sort reply suits the best to be given to People like the group of Abdullah Ibn Salam, The Chief, Rabbi of the Jews (its known from the tafsir next verse) then who are entering Islam that time since Only These people referred to the correct verses of the Torah so they are addressed by Noble Quran as as we believe in that which has been revealed to you (those correct verses) and Since Abdullah ibn salam read & believed those correct verses (without twisting, hiding, concealing or being biased as he was their Chief Rabbi ) and they did not wait to become Muslims and accept Allah and his Prophet. And so its referred as that, we believe those were the books Originally revealed by the same source, One God, Allah (though later got corrupted as in verses 2:174, 2:75,79, 3:78, 5:15, 5:13-14, 6:91, 7:162 ,2:87)

    next verse Muhsin Khan
    Noble Quran 29:47 ''And thus We have sent down the Book (i.e this Quran) to you (O Muhammad SAW), and those whom We gave the Scripture [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) aforetime] believe therein as also do some of these (who are present with you now like 'Abdullah bin Salam) and none but the disbelievers reject Our Ayat [(proofs, signs, verses, lessons, etc., and deny Our Oneness of Lordship and Our Oneness of worship and Our Oneness of Our Names and Qualities: i.e. Islamic Monotheism)]

    Allah Knows the best. (since i could not compare them with other tafsir like Mahriful Quran if there were further additional info to the above verses they will be Inshallah -Godwillingly updated)
    Last edited by talibilm09; 29-08-15 at 12:21 PM.

  2. #2
    Odan talibilm09's Avatar
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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Another verse of Noble Quran the Apologetics target is 18:86 about the Sun setting in Murky waters

    ''Until, when He reached the setting place of the sun, He found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And He found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness ''


    Here the setting in the murky waters was a used as a ' Figurative speech ' which in no Harm Since its HE, Dhul Qarnain , The king found (Not Allah) and even I would say the same to My toddlers or kids, Hey, see the Sun falling in the water and coming from the mountain , The Moon is on the mountain Is it really come from the mountain ? lol,

    when i was on 50th + floor of a building peeping out i had said to my kids, hey dear, see your toy Cars, did i really mean the cars are toys ? . Lol, the error is in your mind and not in the Noble Quran and in the hadith which were spoken based on the Noble Quran since they will not speak anything against what was said in it ?

    If Prophet (Pbuh) had explained them about the Sun and the spherical Earth to them as he explained about The Sun does not eclipse far any persons death Do You know, What Would Have HAPPENED ' IF' he had explained them since he had gone to the skies (17:1, 17:12-15) and that' s why he had narrated like a hadith like this in the video about the Arsh (Throne of Allah) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYYP1K4omwM


    The Pagan Arabs then would have constructed THE tallest tower to climb (like Pharaoh Ordered his construction minister for seeing Allah because Moses(pbuh) said he is in the skies http://quran.com/28/38 ) and see was it real ? That would lead them only to waste their Precious TIME only thinking on this single word and still cannot come to any conclusion untill a satellite photographed it FROM SPACE and even a a Modern Astronomical Telescope found in 16- 17 th century would not have helped untill we travelled to Space to an altitude of more than 100km above EARTH since even myself while flying at 30-40000 feet, still could not find any spheric curve that would satisfy ME that the earth is spherical and so we have to believe NASA , though they had lied about ''Manned'' Missions to Moon

    . The result should have been that they(Pagan Arabs) would have rejected the Quran as a Lie. So The ALL WISE, God knew VERY WELL what to reveal ? & what not to reveal ? & what to leave it 'VAGUE' ? and how to address it ( The RIGHT DOSAGE OF KNOWLEDGE OR OVER DOSAGE WOULD HAVE KILLED THEM ) so that they became believers that changed them like 'Sand into gold'' ( The Gentiles& Pagans, Camel, Sheep herders to the rulers sitting on Throne of Caeser 's Ruling the world in 30-35 years)Subhanallah


    ,So the Prophet(pbuh) rightly commented this in his Last haj sermon few months before his demise

    '' ....................... I leave behind me two things, the Quran and the Sunnah (Hadith), and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listened to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed your message to your people.............................''

    So As per the above Hadith,We believers of the Modern Era are a understanding those words of The noble Quran which is a Living miracle for us whose words with multiple meanings can accommodate even the latest Inventions of science & technology

    [COLOR="#000000"][COLOR="#000000"]Substantiating further by Comparing the next adjacent verse of 18:90 to the above verse 18:86 (sun set in murky water as figurative speech) would further clear your suspicion Noble Quran 18:90

    ''Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had not made against it any shield.''

    Its He found, '' by the ONLOOKER king Dhulqarnain ''Not Allah found Does it mean its on the people 's head , again a figurative speech as in the earlier verse 18:86 we can find in other holy books just to make people understand and those statements is by the ONLOOKER king Dhulqarnain and not the Noble Quran

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    Senior Member Abdur-Razzaq's Avatar
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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    I think these discussions are very important for anyone reading the Qur'an, Muslim or non-Muslim, but are especially important for Muslims to know so when they are confronted with anti-Islam missionaries they will know the Truth and not be confused or swayed by the people of other religions. Knowledge is so very important in Islam so you don't get caught up in the traps of the Shaytan!

    I have also heard the argument from the Islam haters that why should they rely on the explanations of Muslim scholars for the way to interpret the Qur'an. When you hear someone say this know immediately that they are not seeking guidance but only to try to twist the words of Allah and sow doubt in your heart if you will let them. The meaning of the Qur'an is clearly explained by 1,400 years worth of scholarly tafsir and there are no contradictions or doubts in it!

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    Odan talibilm09's Avatar
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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Another verse which is used By Apologetics to ridicule the Noble Quran is

    Sura 86:6-7 "He was created from a fluid, ejected,Emerging from between the backbone and the ribs."

    This Link clears the Doubt from Medical doctors the Origin of Sperm from its roots. Quoted in the link as the follows

    http://www.understanding-islam.com/q...iq-86-6-7-4836

    ''".........asked a few of my doctor friends about the making of the male sperm and the supply of its ingredients to the ultimate place of its making. In response, among a few other things, I was told that although the male sperm is formed in the testes, yet the blood supply which, obviously, is integral to the making of the sperm comes from between the ribs and the back. I was also told by one of my doctor friends that the cells that form the sperm originate from between the ribs and the back. If this is true, then the words of the Qur'an are not scientifically incorrect, as the words "emanating from a place between the (lower) back and the (lower) ribs", do not necessarily imply "emanating in its final shape" only, but can also cover "initial emanation".

    I believe in the Miracle of Quran (when Hadith says Prophet's (pbuh) words are simple with a deep meaning) Then Imagine How deep The wordsof Noble Quran should be ? while Science is still changing Now And will change later (see links below) But Quran did not change at all even a letter for 1430 years , So Subhanallah

    Quran as the last Testament from THE CREATOR of this Globe & Galaxies requires its Miracles had to be Continuous and immortal, and its verses contains expandable & Multiple meanings understandable or applicable then before 1430 years in the Desert among the Pagan Arabs, where just ordinary reading was a Privilege and now TODAY in this scientific era UNDERSTANDABLE enough to everyone, even a layman to a student or to a scientist in the manner they will understand and the Quran will continue its mission untill the last days of the world by its miraculous nature of accommodating even the most recent scientific discoveries like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7BPeVRqBRM


    http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0932440.html .............. Science is changing continuosly so fallible unlike the Noble Quran which has passed the test of time for the past 1400 years

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    The attackers of Islam use this verse 9:29 and claim something Which is MOST UNFAIR & Blunt Lies.

    Noble Quran 9:29 '' Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.''

    (Noble Quran )Tafsir ibn Abbas(raa)
    (Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture) the Jews and Christians (as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day) nor in the bliss of Paradise, (and forbid not) in the Torah (that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the religion of truth) do not submit themselves to Allah through confession of Allah's divine Oneness, (until they pay the tribute readily) standing: from hand to hand, (being brought low) abased.


    Its refers to the Jews & christians who boasted being chosen people of God ie very Pious but never abstained from Haram or prohibitted things ie never lived by it (covenant)EVEN FROM THEIR OWN SCRIPTURES so these people were to be fought till they were humbled and followed ATLEAST their books firmly by avoiding the prohibitions seen there like adultery, wine,swine, usury.

    Just Imagine a Islamic neighbourhood sticking to their purity and a next Neighbour a drunkard playing music and exhibit erotic , fondelling moves with his fiancee or a whore on a open terrace or a visible lawn, lol, this is ok for him but not for that pure community then under Prophet (pbuh ) and the muslim children will learn from their neighbour, on Such time those who arrogant defying rules of the Islamic state has to be fought untill they are humbled and pay jizzya as well which is just a tax in lieu on non participation in Muslim army but can get get protection from the Muslim army regarding his LIFE & PROPERTY like every other Muslim is entitled to, and Prophet has warned the Muslims something like if anybody harms or kills such NON MUSLIMS under Islamic state protection he will not smell the fragrance of paradise.

    This incident will prove what was the actual aim of Jizzya. During the reign of the second caliph, ‘Umar bin al-Khattaab may Allaah be pleased with him the Roman emperor, Heraclius, raised a huge army to repel the Muslim forces. It was, thus, incumbent upon the Muslims to concentrate their efforts on the battle. When the commander of the Muslims, Abu ‘Ubaydah may Allaah be pleased with him heard this news, he wrote to his officials in all conquered cities in Syria and ordered them to return the Jizyah which had been levied in those cities. He also addressed the public saying; “We are returning your money because we know that the enemy has gathered troops. By the terms stipulated in the covenant, you have obliged us to protect you. However, since we are now unable to fulfil these conditions, we have returned to you what you paid to us. We shall abide by the terms agreed upon in the covenant, if Allaah helps us to rout the enemy”. Thus, a huge amount was taken from the state treasury and returned to the Christians, making them very happy. They prayed for and blessed the Muslim commanders. They exclaimed: “May Allaah help you to overcome your enemies and return you to us safely. [U]If the enemy were in your place, they would never have returned anything to us, rather they would have taken all our remaining property!"

    We see that Muslims not only allowed Christians to remain Christians but that the Christians themselves preferred Muslim rule over that of Heraclius, who was himself a Christian

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    The attackers of Islam use this verse 9:29 and claim something Which is MOST UNFAIR & Blunt Lies.

    Noble Quran 9:29 '' Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.''

    (Noble Quran )Tafsir ibn Abbas(raa)
    (Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture) the Jews and Christians (as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day) nor in the bliss of Paradise, (and forbid not) in the Torah (that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the religion of truth) do not submit themselves to Allah through confession of Allah's divine Oneness, (until they pay the tribute readily) standing: from hand to hand, (being brought low) abased.


    Its refers to the Jews & christians who boasted being chosen people of God ie very Pious but never abstained from Haram or prohibitted things ie never lived by it (covenant)EVEN FROM THEIR OWN SCRIPTURES so these people were to be fought till they were humbled and followed ATLEAST their books firmly by avoiding the prohibitions seen there like adultery, wine,swine, usury.

    Just Imagine a Islamic neighbourhood sticking to their purity and a next Neighbour a drunkard playing music and exhibit erotic , fondelling moves with his fiancee or a whore on a open terrace or a visible lawn, lol, this is ok for him but not for that pure community then under Prophet (pbuh ) and the muslim children will learn from their neighbour, on Such time those who arrogant defying rules of the Islamic state has to be fought untill they are humbled and pay jizzya as well which is just a tax in lieu on non participation in Muslim army but can get get protection from the Muslim army regarding his LIFE & PROPERTY like every other Muslim is entitled to, and Prophet has warned the Muslims something like if anybody harms or kills such NON MUSLIMS under Islamic state protection he will not smell the fragrance of paradise.

    This incident will prove what was the actual aim of Jizzya. During the reign of the second caliph, ‘Umar bin al-Khattaab may Allaah be pleased with him the Roman emperor, Heraclius, raised a huge army to repel the Muslim forces. It was, thus, incumbent upon the Muslims to concentrate their efforts on the battle. When the commander of the Muslims, Abu ‘Ubaydah may Allaah be pleased with him heard this news, he wrote to his officials in all conquered cities in Syria and ordered them to return the Jizyah which had been levied in those cities. He also addressed the public saying; “We are returning your money because we know that the enemy has gathered troops. By the terms stipulated in the covenant, you have obliged us to protect you. However, since we are now unable to fulfil these conditions, we have returned to you what you paid to us. We shall abide by the terms agreed upon in the covenant, if Allaah helps us to rout the enemy”. Thus, a huge amount was taken from the state treasury and returned to the Christians, making them very happy. They prayed for and blessed the Muslim commanders. They exclaimed: “May Allaah help you to overcome your enemies and return you to us safely. [U]If the enemy were in your place, they would never have returned anything to us, rather they would have taken all our remaining property!"

    We see that Muslims not only allowed Christians to remain Christians but that the Christians themselves preferred Muslim rule over that of Heraclius, who was himself a Christian

    p.s. Kindly copy & paste these verses where muslims are made to get confused by posting in your other muslim websites, youtube comments, facebook etc and also if possible in Non islamic sites where these rumours are rampant.

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    BUMP for AJ4U

    Its not a big deal or difficult thing to answer Allah willingly , just search in the Noble Quran's tafsir or EXPLNATION in the below link of Ibn Abbas (630-680 AD), the cousin of Prophet who explains them with the hadiths or sayings of Prophet If you still do not understand them even from it post your doubts which we will try to refer from other tafsirs as well. inshallah

    http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Good thread, both Muslims and non Muslims should know the details behind a verse before quoting

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    BUMP for AJ4U

    Its not a big deal or difficult thing to answer Allah willingly , just search in the Noble Quran's tafsir or EXPLNATION in the below link of Ibn Abbas (630-680 AD), the cousin of Prophet who explains them with the hadiths or sayings of Prophet If you still do not understand them even from it post your doubts which we will try to refer from other tafsirs as well. inshallah

    http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2
    I have spoken with many Muslims and they say different things. For instance, some say the Koran is clear on its own others say no it is not without the hadiths. The video I sent gives a pretty clear cut explanation and verses from the Quran that are very understandable in that Allah's word is unalterable and not just a part of it concerning the central good tiding of paradise as you state, but this lengthy explanation of yours is convoluted and implies that the Quran without the hadiths or explanations you give is like a car without an engine. If I cannot take the Koran at face value then why should I take the hadiths at face value or what you say about the Koran? I am not trying to be smart with you. My question is sincere. Can Islam hold up to these kind of questions I have, and why do so many Muslim differ about the Koran in their explanations?

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    I have spoken with many Muslims and they say different things. For instance, some say the Koran is clear on its own others say no it is not without the hadiths. The video I sent gives a pretty clear cut explanation and verses from the Quran that are very understandable in that Allah's word is unalterable and not just a part of it concerning the central good tiding of paradise as you state, but this lengthy explanation of yours is convoluted and implies that the Quran without the hadiths or explanations you give is like a car without an engine. If I cannot take the Koran at face value then why should I take the hadiths at face value or what you say about the Koran? I am not trying to be smart with you. My question is sincere. Can Islam hold up to these kind of questions I have, and why do so many Muslim differ about the Koran in their explanations?

    Mate, Don't You know The Noble Quran was revealed in about 23 years (unlike Torah ) depending upon on the various situations, exposing Liars, enemies, conspiracies, replying Questions of Meccan idolators , Jews, Christians, replying believers, companions problems, mistakes (even Prophet's), enacting Laws etc etc and be reasonable and use your conscience, common sense and say how its possible to know the Right meaning of the Noble 100 % of all verses without seeing the context and incidents and periods when those verses were revealed. But there also verses that might not need them such as the first verse in your video 10:64 which is CUT & CLEAR still the Critic Hides the previous part of the verse just to mend or change or TWIST the meaning of the verse as per his needs , so thats why even for the muslimsl there's a Hadith telling us not to interpret the Real meaning of the Noble Quran by ourselves because of each's shortcomings & hidden intentions .

    EXPLAINING 10 :64 , even from Translation not the Tafsir or explanation see this link http://quran.com/10/63-65

    ''For them are good tidings in the worldly life and in the Hereafter. No change is there in the words of Allah . That is what is the great attainment.''

    The Crooked minded author of your video had hidden both the preceding and proceeding part of the SAME verse (10:64) and took the middle part to TWIST it to his own meaning

    If you do not understand such easy things it shows
    1) you did not read my thread with interest
    2) Or you are prejudiced & unfair
    3) Or you act ignorant inspite of knowing

    if these things happen believe me we are going to part as those three Abrhamaic faith friends did or we are going to enter into a hard discourse as a consequence
    or tell those Muslims to talk to me who said that we need have Hadith to help To understand the right meaning or give their Link , to know what they really mean it because Noble Quran will have multiple meaning (in good faith like scientific facts) but for facts of history and all general matters its THE BEST to refer to hadith as stressed in a hadith itself. its time for my prayer...

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    Mate, Don't You know The Noble Quran was revealed in about 23 years (unlike Torah ) depending upon on the various situations, exposing Liars, enemies, conspiracies, replying Questions of Meccan idolators , Jews, Christians, replying believers, companions problems, mistakes (even Prophet's), enacting Laws etc etc and be reasonable and use your conscience, common sense and say how its possible to know the Right meaning of the Noble 100 % of all verses without seeing the context and incidents and periods when those verses were revealed. But there also verses that might not need them such as the first verse in your video 10:64 which is CUT & CLEAR still the Critic Hides the previous part of the verse just to mend or change or TWIST the meaning of the verse as per his needs , so thats why even for the muslimsl there's a Hadith telling us not to interpret the Real meaning of the Noble Quran by ourselves because of each's shortcomings & hidden intentions .

    EXPLAINING 10 :64 , even from Translation not the Tafsir or explanation see this link http://quran.com/10/63-65

    ''For them are good tidings in the worldly life and in the Hereafter. No change is there in the words of Allah . That is what is the great attainment.''

    The Crooked minded author of your video had hidden both the preceding and proceeding part of the SAME verse (10:64) and took the middle part to TWIST it to his own meaning

    If you do not understand such easy things it shows
    1) you did not read my thread with interest
    2) Or you are prejudiced & unfair
    3) Or you act ignorant inspite of knowing

    if these things happen believe me we are going to part as those three Abrhamaic faith friends did or we are going to enter into a hard discourse as a consequence
    or tell those Muslims to talk to me who said that we need have Hadith to help To understand the right meaning or give their Link , to know what they really mean it because Noble Quran will have multiple meaning (in good faith like scientific facts) but for facts of history and all general matters its THE BEST to refer to hadith as stressed in a hadith itself. its time for my prayer...
    Crooked minded? If I thought that I would've posted it, but it eludes me as to what was crooked about him or what he shared. All he said was the Quran doesn't claim the Bible corrupted and showed his source in the Koran. \

    You are not making clear what he left out or proving with context from the Koran how he is twisting anything. he just quoted the Koran. What for instance is to stop a person from saying you are twisting Scripture to make it appear that Allah's torah and gospel have been corrupted when the Quran explicitly states otherwise from the clear verses given in the video from the Koran itself? Are you being fair to the guy's presentation or prejudice? Are you acting ignorant in spite of knowing? Do you think yourself a better person than Christians?

    I am a Christian and you are expecting me to take your word that the Bible is corrupted when not even Muhammad said such a thing. He never criticized the text ever and the Koran is not clear too me as to what it means by those who write with their own hand, but it is clear in the Koran that Allah's Scriptures are unalterable. That means cannot be changed as you imply. I read your thread but I didn't study it with great interest
    because it was long and not to the point. You say me prejudiced & unfair, because I don't buy the Bible is corrupted or I act ignorant in spite of knowing- knowing what? You mean in spite of knowing the Bible is corrupted? You must be joking right?
    I cannot admit the Bible is corrupted anymore than you can the Koran. I look at all the facts before I make an informed decision

    Thanks for sharing, but I am not convinced the Bible is corrupted or that the video gave a crooked view point
    Last edited by AJ4u; 09-01-15 at 01:46 AM.

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    Crooked minded? If I thought that I would've posted it, but it eludes me as to what was crooked about him or what he shared. All he said was the Quran doesn't claim the Bible corrupted and showed his source in the Koran. \

    Luke 19:27King James Version (KJV)
    27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.''

    Jesus said that making him a tyrant & terrorist, do you agree to that?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    You are not making clear what he left out or proving with context from the Koran how he is twisting anything. he just quoted the Koran.
    10:64 is clear in itself as explained in my previous post that says THE WORDS OF ALLAH about the promise regarding good tidings in this world and Paradise will not be changed. So a man is know by the company he keeps so if you join the Crooked author, I have no way left than rewarding my - rep to you since you are TROLLING in a Muslim Forum voluntarily making false stories

    If you did not understand these very simple things which even a * an 8th grade student will not require such a spoon feeding then your intentions here is EXPLICIT (Trolling) and i feel its a waste of time to have a discourse with a kid,

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    What for instance is to stop a person from saying you are twisting Scripture to make it appear that Allah's torah and gospel have been corrupted when the Quran explicitly states otherwise from the clear verses given in the video from the Koran itself? Are you being fair to the guy's presentation or prejudice? Are you acting ignorant in spite of knowing? Do you think yourself a better person than Christians?

    I am a Christian and you are expecting me to take your word that the Bible is corrupted when not even Muhammad said such a thing. He never criticized the text ever and the Koran is not clear too me as to what it means by those who write with their own hand, but it is clear in the Koran that Allah's Scriptures are unalterable. That means cannot be changed as you imply. I read your thread but I didn't study it with great interest because it was long and not to the point. You say me prejudiced & unfair, because I don't buy the Bible is corrupted or I act ignorant in spite of knowing- knowing what? You mean in spite of knowing the Bible is corrupted? You must be joking right?
    I cannot admit the Bible is corrupted anymore than you can the Koran. I look at all the facts before I make an informed decision

    Thanks for sharing, but I am not convinced the Bible is corrupted or that the video gave a crooked view point
    lol, I know that THE BIGGEST JOKE of the Millenium saying bible is not corrupted every Fanatic Christian does that and want to stay dug into their heels, Though The world and their most respected bible Scholar for 30 Years, a hardcore evangelist, archealogist says that MORE than what i have to say about that . I know you will not see these videos if you are Prejudiced or a Troll in a cover of A decent Christian.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSGd8uzFxxY ( No one heard it except Paul who also did not meet Jesus)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNn7b_kz9dM (self Contradictory)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMePkqjdVx8 ( Same stories distorted differently by different Authors)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iYEylXZNr4

    Vulgarity in the bible, Gods words undistorted ?

    I know everybody loves his religion but its wrong to be fanatic & Psychopath about his religion. I accept facts Against me or my religion if they are reasonable. thats why always I say some Christians say to show the other Cheek if you are Slapped , but if they are slapped they bring a gun to shoot , instead , Hypocrisy at its PEAK, I do accept there are Muslims of that type but they do not claim as the Christians Claim ' show the other cheek ' ? lol Islam islam is Practical, true relgion when other are diverted from truth, ok i know that you wont accept it.

    Another of your claim that Quran and hadith say bible is not corrupted ? is Wrong see these Proofs from the Noble Quran and Hadith

    SCRIPTURES DISTORTED VERSES (2:174, 2:75,79,3:78,5:15,5:13-14,6:91, 7:162,2:87)

    Hadith

    Volume 9, Book 93, Number 613 :http://www.searchtruth.com/book_disp...t=0&number=613
    Narrated by 'Ikrima
    Ibn 'Abbas said, "How can you ask the people of the Scriptures about their Books while you have Allah's Book (the Qur'an) which is
    the most recent of the Books revealed by Allah, and you read it in its pure undistorted form?"

    Narrated 'Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah: 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas said, "O the group of Muslims! How can you ask the people of the Scriptures about anything while your Book which Allah has revealed to your Prophet contains the most recent news from Allah and is pure and not distorted? Allah has told you that the people of the Scriptures have changed some of Allah's Books and distorted it and wrote something with their own hands and said, 'This is from Allah, so as to have a minor gain for it. Won't the knowledge that has come to you stop you from asking them? No, by Allah, we have never seen a man from them asking you about that (the Book Al-Qur'an ) which has been revealed to you.

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    You call me a Psychopath troll and mock and laugh at the Bible. I have said nothing against you or Islam and received a negative reputation report. I have nothing more to say to you. Jesus was and is right as always: Matthew 7:6
    Last edited by AJ4u; 09-01-15 at 01:52 PM.

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    You call me a Psychopath troll and mock and laugh at the Bible. I have said nothing against you or Islam and received a negative reputation report. I have nothing more to say to you. Jesus was and is right as always: Matthew 7:6

    Yes, Jesus could be right in Some undistorted verses such about Comforter and the God is above all etc and this verse too

    Matthew 7:22-23King James Version (KJV)

    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me
    , ye that work iniquity.

    As in the previous post where the Crooked Author of your video and the supporters of Such video deserve my words and all those who gave + rep do deserve it too. Keep practising iniquity as Jesus says with lying as in the above verse, Jesus Spoke right , right ? ( only few verses which remain undistorted ) Listen To Bart Erhman, I can serve him though he has not accepted Islam, Only For his Spirit of truth and straight forwardness.

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post

    Yes, Jesus could be right in Some undistorted verses such about Comforter and the God is above all etc and this verse too

    Matthew 7:22-23King James Version (KJV)

    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me
    , ye that work iniquity.

    As in the previous post where the Crooked Author of your video and the supporters of Such video deserve my words and all those who gave + rep do deserve it too. Keep practising iniquity as Jesus says with lying as in the above verse, Jesus Spoke right , right ? ( only few verses which remain undistorted ) Listen To Bart Erhman, I can serve him though he has not accepted Islam, Only For his Spirit of truth and straight forwardness.
    Bart Erhman had been debunked, because the thousands of errors he refers to in the Bible are nonsense errors such as typos and translation errors that don't impact the truth contained in Scripture. Remember The Bible states God's word is established in heaven forever and Jesus prayed "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" So, the truth has been preserved; I also believe the Koran when Allah states his word is unalterable. I take that to mean all his words not just the Koran. So, I disagree with Bart Erhman who is nothing more than an atheist you refer to just to support the negativity you want to believe about the unalterable Scriptures that came before. As it stands, I am believing all God's Scriptures are unalterable and you don't believe the Bible or the Koran that states the same thing. Please think on this the next time you go to pray. Thanks

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Additionally, saying the Koran states Allah's words are unalterable is not misquoted. But Muslims that say Matthew 7:22-23King James Version (KJV) is to those who call Jesus Lord, Lord is represented and out of context.

    Jesus didn't say it was for calling him Lord; it was for calling him Lord and doing their own thing for God instead of doing God's will. Jesus would also say the same to all who don't call him Lord.

    Look carefully at the verse. It doesn't state one is wrong for calling him Lord. He means it this way: Why call me Lord and do not the things I say?

    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
    Last edited by AJ4u; 09-01-15 at 03:04 PM.

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    Additionally, saying the Koran states Allah's words are unalterable is not misquoted. But Muslims that say Matthew 7:22-23King James Version (KJV) is to those who call Jesus Lord, Lord is represented and out of context.

    Jesus didn't say it was for calling him Lord; it was for calling him Lord and doing their own thing for God instead of doing God's will. Jesus would also say the same to all who don't call him Lord.

    Look carefully at the verse. It doesn't state one is wrong for calling him Lord. He means it this way: Why call me Lord and do not the things I say?

    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
    Sorry, I am not here to answer kids who want have fun and does EVEN not understand their own books (matthew 7:22-23) where Jesus gives a so kindly have a nice time some where else like on a Giant wheel with all your dubious members who + repped you dude

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    Sorry, I am not here to answer kids who want have fun and does EVEN not understand their own books (matthew 7:22-23) where Jesus gives a so kindly have a nice time some where else like on a Giant wheel with all your dubious members who + repped you dude
    Sir stop being rude and disrespectful. there is no call for it. deal with the issues. I am telling you what we Christians understand Matthew 7: 22, 23 to mean. You are understanding and quoting it out of context. You don't strike me as being interested in knowing truth. You just want to bash Christianity and not understand it or what true believers know and think. Please keep in mind that your good standing on the forum doesn't mean good standing with God; we must all account to God for our words and deeds.

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    Sir stop being rude and disrespectful. there is no call for it. deal with the issues. I am telling you what we Christians understand Matthew 7: 22, 23 to mean. You are understanding and quoting it out of context. You don't strike me as being interested in knowing truth. You just want to bash Christianity and not understand it or what true believers know and think. Please keep in mind that your good standing on the forum doesn't mean good standing with God; we must all account to God for our words and deeds.
    Thanks , sir , so do pass time on an amusement park sir, I can't amuse you any more and I am not free for such time wasting sir.

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Another Most misquoted verse by the attackers of Islam is this verse 9:29 and claim something Which is MOST UNFAIR & Blunt Lies

    Noble Quran 9:29 '' Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.''

    (Noble Quran )Tafsir ibn Abbas(raa)
    (Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture) the Jews and Christians (as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day) nor in the bliss of Paradise, (and forbid not) in the Torah (that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the religion of truth) do not submit themselves to Allah through confession of Allah's divine Oneness, (until they pay the tribute readily) standing: from hand to hand, (being brought low) abased.

    This verse 9:29 was revealed in 9th muslim year after establishment of Islamic State and this state did not recruit Non-Muslims in the army because the Law was not same for both and the Muslim Army can get easily corrupted by the JOLLY LIFE living of NON MUSLIMS by ways of Liquor,Gambling, Adultery, Betraying, Hypocrisy etc. "'Jizzya' From the word ''Jazza" meaning ''To Compensate" was levied on Non Muslims as a "'Compensation' ' in lieu of not to partcipate in Muslim Army" BUT get ''Protection'' from them for their Life & property as every Muslim Citizen would.

    Also it points to the Jews & Christians who boasted as being the chosen people of God ie very Pious but never abstained from Haram or prohibitted things, iow they never lived by it (covenant)EVEN BY ABIDING THEIR OWN SCRIPTURES so these people who did not take as prohibited which was prohibited By the Islamic state and were to be fought till they were humbled and followed ATLEAST their books firmly by avoiding the prohibitions seen there like adultery, wine,swine, usury and pay Jizzya tax while Muslims paid the Zakat tax but they (non muslims) need not pay zakat tax.

    Just think of a Islamic neighbourhood sticking to their purity and a next Neighbour a drunkard playing music and exhibit erotic , fondelling moves with his fiancee or a whore on a open terrace or a visible lawn, lol, this is ok for him but not for that pure community then under Prophet (pbuh ) and the muslim children will learn from their neighbour. on Such time those who arrogant defying rules of the Islamic state has to be fought untill they are humbled and pay jizzya as well which is just a tax in lieu on non participation in Muslim army but can get get protection from them like every other Muslim is entitled to.

    The Jizzya was returned back when the Muslim army could not keep its promise of protecting the non Muslims for proof read my posts in this thread

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...t=#post6201448

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    Another Most misquoted verse by the attackers of Islam is this verse 9:29 and claim something Which is MOST UNFAIR & Blunt Lies

    Noble Quran 9:29 '' Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.''

    (Noble Quran )Tafsir ibn Abbas(raa)
    (Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture) the Jews and Christians (as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day) nor in the bliss of Paradise, (and forbid not) in the Torah (that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the religion of truth) do not submit themselves to Allah through confession of Allah's divine Oneness, (until they pay the tribute readily) standing: from hand to hand, (being brought low) abased.

    This verse 9:29 was revealed in 9th muslim year after establishment of Islamic State and this state did not recruit Non-Muslims in the army because the Law was not same for both and the Muslim Army can get easily corrupted by the JOLLY LIFE living of NON MUSLIMS by ways of Liquor,Gambling, Adultery, Betraying, Hypocrisy etc. "'Jizzya' From the word ''Jazza" meaning ''To Compensate" was levied on Non Muslims as a "'Compensation' ' in lieu of not to partcipate in Muslim Army" BUT get ''Protection'' from them for their Life & property as every Muslim Citizen would.

    Also it points to the Jews & Christians who boasted as being the chosen people of God ie very Pious but never abstained from Haram or prohibitted things, iow they never lived by it (covenant)EVEN BY ABIDING THEIR OWN SCRIPTURES so these people who did not take as prohibited which was prohibited By the Islamic state and were to be fought till they were humbled and followed ATLEAST their books firmly by avoiding the prohibitions seen there like adultery, wine,swine, usury and pay Jizzya tax while Muslims paid the Zakat tax but they (non muslims) need not pay zakat tax.

    Just think of a Islamic neighbourhood sticking to their purity and a next Neighbour a drunkard playing music and exhibit erotic , fondelling moves with his fiancee or a whore on a open terrace or a visible lawn, lol, this is ok for him but not for that pure community then under Prophet (pbuh ) and the muslim children will learn from their neighbour. on Such time those who arrogant defying rules of the Islamic state has to be fought untill they are humbled and pay jizzya as well which is just a tax in lieu on non participation in Muslim army but can get get protection from them like every other Muslim is entitled to.

    The Jizzya was returned back when the Muslim army could not keep its promise of protecting the non Muslims for proof read my posts in this thread

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...t=#post6201448
    BUMP for Cotzy replying your questions , verses 5:47,9:29

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Noble Quran 9:29 '' Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.''

    But this is a Scripture verse in the Quran! I could understand your interpretation of this if it was in the hadith instead, and what Muslims had to follow for a certain time in history, but as a verse in the Quran, people can take it for just what it says without your interpretation. In fact, may radical Muslims do. It is clear, IMO, and needs no interpretation whatsoever.

    Now, if we compare religions, we see fight those who don't believe in the Muhammad, Allah and the last day, but in the gospel it says love your enemies; so, the Quran follows more the OT except when God judged and fought people, he didn't say go and do likewise perpetually until the last day; moreover, God revealed his love and mercy to sinners as Jesus did in the gospel as a friend of sinners. Therefore, it is the goodness of God that leads sinners to repentance not his wrath, but his wrath will come for God will not strive with man indefinitely. A man being often rebuked and still hardens his heart will be eventually destroyed without remedy.

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Noble Quran 9:29 '' Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.'' When I look at a verse in the Quran I really like to deliberate on it and study it. The more I do I am convinced it is very clear and self-explanatory. This, IMHO, is in no need of interpretation.

    I had a typo in my last post, but I meant to show this comparison as well, this verse says fight those who don't believe in Allah. I don't believe even in the OT God had the children of Israel fight those who didn't believe in God, but he did have them fight when God wanted them to go somewhere and the heathen wouldn't let them pass and for such things as that; so, that is another comparison or contrast I noticed.

    Now the verse also states fight those who don't believe in what Allah and Muhammad consider unlawful. I find this interesting, and maybe if anything could use a little explanation as to how Muslims see this, but then again one can argue it is clear for them as well as us. My questions is in this interesting dichotomy fight those who don't consider unlawful what Allah considers unlawful and fight those who don't consider unlawful what Muhammad considers unlawful. Does that mean fight those who disagree with what Muhammad considers unlawful independently of Allah or are they (Allah & Muhammad) working as one and yet being two separate individuals considering certain things unlawful independent of each other? Do you see where I am going with this interesting dichotomy? It makes me think of the way we see Jesus as one with God but they are two persons with the exception that Jesus wouldn't consider anything unlawful independent of his father in heaven.

    As for your explanation of a next Neighbor a drunkard playing music and exhibit erotic, fondling moves with his fiancée or a whore on a open terrace or a visible lawn is an unrealistic analogy. Even in a corrupt society people wouldn't do that in the open, because it is against the law. They would get arrested. Isolated situations might happen, but it can be easily snuffed out by the law of the land or a moral person's rebuke. It is even against the laws of heathen atheistic nations. People know that's wrong behavior, because God's moral laws are written on the hearts of all peoples even in remote places. So, you are trying to justify a verse in the Quran with your private interpretation when the verse stand on its own without your help to give in meaning. I take it for what it says exactly nothing more or less!

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    Noble Quran 9:29 '' Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.''

    But this is a Scripture verse in the Quran! I could understand your interpretation of this if it was in the hadith instead, and what Muslims had to follow for a certain time in history, but as a verse in the Quran, people can take it for just what it says without your interpretation. In fact, may radical Muslims do. It is clear, IMO, and needs no interpretation whatsoever.

    Now, if we compare religions, we see fight those who don't believe in the Muhammad, Allah and the last day, but in the gospel it says love your enemies; so, the Quran follows more the OT except when God judged and fought people, he didn't say go and do likewise perpetually until the last day; moreover, God revealed his love and mercy to sinners as Jesus did in the gospel as a friend of sinners. Therefore, it is the goodness of God that leads sinners to repentance not his wrath, but his wrath will come for God will not strive with man indefinitely. A man being often rebuked and still hardens his heart will be eventually destroyed without remedy.
    The Noble Quran repeats in many verses strictly to follow the Messenger who bought this message and also instructs us to ENTER ISLAM COMPLETELY So ITS A MUST Muslims have to follow the OPINION OF THEIR PROPHET which is as follows in the Hadith

    ''Jundub reported Allah's Messenger (saw) as saying: He who speaks about the Qur'an on the basis of his personal opinion (by any accord) he commits an error, even if he is right (because it is by accident that he arrives at the truth) (Tirmidhi & Abu Dawud)

    Since the Noble Quran was revealed in 23 years (approx) in different situations revealing conspiracies, enemies, hypocrites, true believers etc answers to questions of Jews, Christians, Magians , Muslims etc we are supposed to know the CONTEXT of the verse why,and when it was revealed or else we will never know the EXACT meaning for why those Noble Quran verses are told. Such is the verse 9:29 which is revealed in the 9th Hijirah is explained in the quote of Post # 21

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    The Noble Quran repeats in many verses strictly to follow the Messenger who bought this message and also instructs us to ENTER ISLAM COMPLETELY So ITS A MUST Muslims have to follow the OPINION OF THEIR PROPHET which is as follows in the Hadith

    ''Jundub reported Allah's Messenger (saw) as saying: He who speaks about the Qur'an on the basis of his personal opinion (by any accord) he commits an error, even if he is right (because it is by accident that he arrives at the truth) (Tirmidhi & Abu Dawud)

    Since the Noble Quran was revealed in 23 years (approx) in different situations revealing conspiracies, enemies, hypocrites, true believers etc answers to questions of Jews, Christians, Magians , Muslims etc we are supposed to know the CONTEXT of the verse why,and when it was revealed or else we will never know the EXACT meaning for why those Noble Quran verses are told. Such is the verse 9:29 which is revealed in the 9th Hijirah is explained in the quote of Post # 21
    I understand context is important
    ; it is the same with the Bible, but some verses in the Bible are clear and already have context built into it. The verse in question here S 9: 29 is clear to me and has the context built in and has no need of interpretation or a search for its context. Now searching to see how different Muslims live out that verse is a different story completely. You could explain that, but this verse, IMO, doesn't need you help; in fact, I would be as bold as to say that none of the Quran needs your explaining help. Doesn't the recitations state it is clear in of itself?

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    I understand context is important
    ; it is the same with the Bible, but some verses in the Bible are clear and already have context built into it. The verse in question here S 9: 29 is clear to me and has the context built in and has no need of interpretation or a search for its context. Now searching to see how different Muslims live out that verse is a different story completely. You could explain that, but this verse, IMO, doesn't need you help; in fact, I would be as bold as to say that none of the Quran needs your explaining help. Doesn't the recitations state it is clear in of itself?
    Recitation is clear but guidance is from Allah...sometimes even clear verse doesnt guide someone..and sometimes a complex verse with pretext (tafseer) when fully explained make one convert to islam.Verses are quite clear but many non muslims out of ignorance about verses,related events,hadeeths go for wrong interpretations...Intention is another thing.Like if you are interesting in islam...you ll be guided but if someone just intend to use these verses for debates against muslims to show them that thrre are faults...then no matter how ckear those verses are ,they wont appear easy to them...because their hearts get sealed.
    ".......He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them (kuffar) their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy.Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it;but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief."(5:64)

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    Noble Quran 9:29 '' Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.'' When I look at a verse in the Quran I really like to deliberate on it and study it. The more I do I am convinced it is very clear and self-explanatory. This, IMHO, is in no need of interpretation.

    I had a typo in my last post, but I meant to show this comparison as well, this verse says fight those who don't believe in Allah. I don't believe even in the OT God had the children of Israel fight those who didn't believe in God, but he did have them fight when God wanted them to go somewhere and the heathen wouldn't let them pass and for such things as that; so, that is another comparison or contrast I noticed.

    Now the verse also states fight those who don't believe in what Allah and Muhammad consider unlawful. I find this interesting, and maybe if anything could use a little explanation as to how Muslims see this, but then again one can argue it is clear for them as well as us. My questions is in this interesting dichotomy fight those who don't consider unlawful what Allah considers unlawful and fight those who don't consider unlawful what Muhammad considers unlawful. Does that mean fight those who disagree with what Muhammad considers unlawful independently of Allah or are they (Allah & Muhammad) working as one and yet being two separate individuals considering certain things unlawful independent of each other? Do you see where I am going with this interesting dichotomy? It makes me think of the way we see Jesus as one with God but they are two persons with the exception that Jesus wouldn't consider anything unlawful independent of his father in heaven.

    As for your explanation of a next Neighbor a drunkard playing music and exhibit erotic, fondling moves with his fiancée or a whore on a open terrace or a visible lawn is an unrealistic analogy. Even in a corrupt society people wouldn't do that in the open, because it is against the law. They would get arrested. Isolated situations might happen, but it can be easily snuffed out by the law of the land or a moral person's rebuke. It is even against the laws of heathen atheistic nations. People know that's wrong behavior, because God's moral laws are written on the hearts of all peoples even in remote places. So, you are trying to justify a verse in the Quran with your private interpretation when the verse stand on its own without your help to give in meaning. I take it for what it says exactly nothing more or less!
    Verse of fighting that many non muslims usually use as weapon...is when muslims are attacked...2nd there were muslims sent to non muslim lands for dawah purposes and they were opposed ,killed or tortured.Here comes fighting.Obviously if dawah is working whats the need of fighting...Various rulers received letters from prophet for dawah but some tore letters,some killed the delegates etc...the result of which ended up in war but that too quite late...like in era of umar ra ...Offensive jehad comes when the rulers were arrogant and oppressed daes and people...even this comes for defensive category.
    ".......He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them (kuffar) their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy.Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it;but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief."(5:64)

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by snow_flakes View Post
    Verse of fighting that many non muslims usually use as weapon...is when muslims are attacked...2nd there were muslims sent to non muslim lands for dawah purposes and they were opposed ,killed or tortured.Here comes fighting.Obviously if dawah is working whats the need of fighting...Various rulers received letters from prophet for dawah but some tore letters,some killed the delegates etc...the result of which ended up in war but that too quite late...like in era of umar ra ...Offensive jehad comes when the rulers were arrogant and oppressed daes and people...even this comes for defensive category.
    I don't doubt what you say, but you didn't address all my points and questions

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by snow_flakes View Post
    Recitation is clear but guidance is from Allah...sometimes even clear verse doesnt guide someone..and sometimes a complex verse with pretext (tafseer) when fully explained make one convert to islam.Verses are quite clear but many non muslims out of ignorance about verses,related events,hadeeths go for wrong interpretations...Intention is another thing.Like if you are interesting in islam...you ll be guided but if someone just intend to use these verses for debates against muslims to show them that thrre are faults...then no matter how ckear those verses are ,they wont appear easy to them...because their hearts get sealed.
    I understand, but that can also be said about the gospel and it would be true as well.

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    I understand, but that can also be said about the gospel and it would be true as well.
    You can ask..i ll answer iA...what specifically you wanna know?
    ".......He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them (kuffar) their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy.Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it;but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief."(5:64)

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Children of israel fought many wars with the nation of Aad..the nation of saba (sheba queen s nation) was given invitation to embrace islam or get ready for fight...Same goes for other neighbours...but since ibrahim as was the founder of khilafah with his progeny on earth (righteous ones) ...so his era involved migration and dawah mostly...after him many wars were fought by israelites ...Infact many even abandoned theirprophets in war saying they want peace..only difference is that they were given punishment of divine dispersion and not fully eradicated compare to other nations..Quite similar picture we see with muslims today...They initially befriended pharoah nations,babylonians...assyrians...Allah gave them punishment by making them slaves to same nations because they stopped loving and hating for the sake of Allah ,mingled with them...
    ".......He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them (kuffar) their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy.Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it;but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief."(5:64)

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by snow_flakes View Post
    You can ask..i ll answer iA...what specifically you wanna know?
    I am sorry snow flakes, I can ask you what and you'll answer? How long were you a Muslim? Were you born into it or did you convert or revert?

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    I am sorry snow flakes, I can ask you what and you'll answer? How long were you a Muslim? Were you born into it or did you convert or revert?
    I am born musoim...why? So is talibelm brother and many that are active in comparative section cept few who ve converted from hinduism i think...but they are also knowledgeable.You can ask any other member here from this section if you think you can get convinced... :/
    ".......He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them (kuffar) their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy.Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it;but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief."(5:64)

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by snow_flakes View Post
    I am born musoim...why? So is talibelm brother and many that are active in comparative section cept few who ve converted from hinduism i think...but they are also knowledgeable.You can ask any other member here from this section if you think you can get convinced... :/
    Can you reword this, you have typos that make it difficult to understand, Are you saying Talibim09 convert to Islam from being Hindu and he is very knowledgeable and that I can ask anyone to help me be convinced of that?

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by snow_flakes View Post
    I am born musoim...why? :/
    Your gender is hidden, but since you asked me why? I take you are a sister. I guy wouldn't ask that question; he would just answer it, but since you asked I'll tell that it is interesting to note who your audience is. It makes dialogue easier by knowing your audience and I think that is important.

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    Can you reword this, you have typos that make it difficult to understand, Are you saying Talibim09 convert to Islam from being Hindu and he is very knowledgeable and that I can ask anyone to help me be convinced of that?
    Ask about islam instead of commenting on members here...I type fast hence some words get mingled though i ll try to be bit slow iA for you to understand...I cant retype what i posted there is no edit option in this section ....
    ".......He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them (kuffar) their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy.Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it;but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief."(5:64)

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    Noble Quran 9:29 '' Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.''

    But this is a Scripture verse in the Quran! I could understand your interpretation of this if it was in the hadith instead, and what Muslims had to follow for a certain time in history, but as a verse in the Quran, people can take it for just what it says without your interpretation. In fact, may radical Muslims do. It is clear, IMO, and needs no interpretation whatsoever.

    Now, if we compare religions, we see fight those who don't believe in the Muhammad, Allah and the last day, but in the gospel it says love your enemies; so, the Quran follows more the OT except when God judged and fought people, he didn't say go and do likewise perpetually until the last day; moreover, God revealed his love and mercy to sinners as Jesus did in the gospel as a friend of sinners. Therefore, it is the goodness of God that leads sinners to repentance not his wrath, but his wrath will come for God will not strive with man indefinitely. A man being often rebuked and still hardens his heart will be eventually destroyed without remedy.
    And who is following this law among christians? Presenting another cheek for another slap....
    ".......He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them (kuffar) their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy.Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it;but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief."(5:64)

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by snow_flakes View Post
    And who is following this law among christians? Presenting another cheek for another slap....
    Me

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by snow_flakes View Post
    Ask about islam instead of commenting on members here...I type fast hence some words get mingled though i ll try to be bit slow iA for you to understand...I cant retype what i posted there is no edit option in this section ....
    Are you taking up an offense for Talibim09? I am not saying he is not knowledgeable, and sure I can ask others and I have been and will continue to do so. Yes, I know what you mean, I had an edit option and then it disappeared after a few hundred posts. I wonder why?

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    Re: 'MISQUOTED' Noble Quran verses by Apologetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    Noble Quran 9:29 '' Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.''

    But this is a Scripture verse in the Quran! I could understand your interpretation of this if it was in the hadith instead, and what Muslims had to follow for a certain time in history, but as a verse in the Quran, people can take it for just what it says without your interpretation. In fact, may radical Muslims do. It is clear, IMO, and needs no interpretation whatsoever.

    Now, if we compare religions, we see fight those who don't believe in the Muhammad, Allah and the last day, but in the gospel it says love your enemies; so, the Quran follows more the OT except when God judged and fought people, he didn't say go and do likewise perpetually until the last day; moreover, God revealed his love and mercy to sinners as Jesus did in the gospel as a friend of sinners. Therefore, it is the goodness of God that leads sinners to repentance not his wrath, but his wrath will come for God will not strive with man indefinitely. A man being often rebuked and still hardens his heart will be eventually destroyed without remedy.
    lol,

    Luke 19:27
    ----------------
    But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

    I wonder who said this?

    oh wait it was Jesus!

    but he preached Love man! what a unique way to preach Love!
    http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

    "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

    – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

 

 

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