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  1. #1
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    VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Peace & greetings,

    Sanjay Dwivedi ,a high cast Hindu, A Brahmin From a prestigious Family and who studied about 15 years to become a Pandit or a Hindu scholar, later studied the Quran and embraced Islam told these facts That One True God has been mentioned in many places of vedas as one without form, without father or mother as believed in Islam. Prophet Muhammad (sal pbuh) has been mentioned in the Vedas (about 4000 years ago) as ' clearly as Muhammad' and Prophet Abraham Or Ibrahim(as) is also mentioned in Vedas in Rig Vedha as ' 'Abrahm'' the one who is Circumcised and mentioning about Prophet Muhammad its been clearly mentioned he will be circumcised and he will be meat eater while followers of Vedas there were mainly Pure vegetarians called , the brahmins. Al Biruni,The Islamic Scientist,Astronomer who came to India says Brahmins of High status were purely monotheist (from wiki as below)

    '' Al-Biruni was disgusted by scholars who failed to engage'' PRIMARY SOURCES'' in their treatment of Hindu Religion.......................................... .................................................. ..............

    Al-Biruni divides Hindus into an educated and an uneducated class. He describes the educated as monotheistic, believing that God is one, eternal, and omnipotent and eschewing all forms of idol worship. He recognizes that uneducated Hindus worshipped a multiplicity of idols yet points out that even some Muslims (such as the Jabiriyya) have adopted anthropomorphic concepts of God. (Ataman, 2005) ''


    But still a part of the world likes Assumptions, Imaginations and creates comparision to The One True God, the Creator. which is the Biggest Injustice & the Biggest unforgivable sin as Per the Noble Quran.

    kindly watch Mr Divedi as "Ahmed Pandit' but in Urdu ,Hindi

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W928jZVfCm4

    Here's a translation of this video from my limited Hindi, Urdu knowledge as follows

    Translation:Today we can see there is a line or queue of gods in them is not because they benefit from them but they worship them to achieve peace of their hearts. I had many friends who taught vedas and granth to others but I myself saw that they were never Peaceful. Why ? beacuse there was a big search in their hearts for the real Creator who had sent the Message to mankind. And that is Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)

    Reads in sanskrit and translates..This Muhammad will be born in Arabia which will be near sea. Does it mean river Ganges ? Its the same place where we are standing now which is close to the sea (might be he was in middle east while delivering this speech) reads Sanskrit and translates..Lets clear it more. The ambassador of God will be born in a such a place where its surroundings have been visited by many other Ambassadors of God before him. He will be the last Ambassadors among all those ambassadors of God.

    Reads sanskrit translates... that God who is the one and the Most Powerful God whose representative he will be and he will proclaim the truth to the mankind that the Creator of Mankind is only one and Most Powerful and none else except him. So Big Truth the vedas are exclaiming,screaming,and you will get these vedas today at the market or holybooks bazar, am not talking about vedas 300 years old which have been Kept in Banaras(sacred city) all these proofs which i've told you are in those vedas in the market.And those vedas that I was taught is not available in the holybooks market now.You can research about Prophet's name in the vedas from the market.the 15 times of Prophet Muhammad 's name mentioned will also be available in them.

    Let see what will Prophet will do after he comes (as in vedas)

    He will bring such a message which will give success to humanity & what will be the last message. READS SANSKRIT TRANSlates

    Ganga (ganges) does not mean the name of river but it means pure water which refers to the purest water of Zam zam.
    He will have 5 things that the earlier Ambassadors of God did not have.
    1)One will be zamzam well
    2)The city where they will turn their face while Praying
    3) will Preach message or Mission of about one god(not clear)
    4)circumcision will be followed by his people.
    5)he will bring book of God or message, it means Noble Quran which will tell how to lead the complete life

    Reads Sanskrit Translates,

    He will be the Guru of all Gurus(Guru means Teacher or leader) He will inform from Arabia and message will be spread from there. will use Clear water those of angels he will use or Zam zam water (or refers to cleaning of Prophet's heart by angels) Reads Sanskrit & translates.. After Delivering the above 5 things he will declare to God saying that the responsibility God gave him He has delivered it completely to the mankind and his duty is now completed.

    ( I think he refers to the last haj Sermon where Prophet(saw) says ''(http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...arewell-Sermon)

    '' Toward the end of his sermon, Muhammad asked "O people, have I faithfully delivered unto you my message?" A powerful murmur of assent "O Allah, yes!", arose from thousands of pilgrims and the vibrant words "Allahumma na’m" rolled like thunder throughout the valley. Muhammad raised his forefinger and said: "Be my witness O Allah, that I have conveyed your message to your people." )


    And his followers Men & women will love & follow the Guru ( teacher) such as babies run after their Mothers, such will be the Gurus's students and follow his message( not sure) This is the light that Vedas Emit, are we ready to take advantage of it ? Ask ourselves in how much darkness we are now ? we have been worshipping some many gods leaving the Real ONE to be worshipped, But Inspite of it See how kind is our True One God , our Creator who has been fullfilling all our needs though we have sinned but did not ask anything in return . Inspite of knowing our real Creator ,Are we not yet ready to turn to him ?
    Last edited by talibilm09; 09-08-15 at 02:44 AM.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    How about I make you an offer you cannot refuse?
    Just pray for him AJ4u.. Just pray for him.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    Just pray for him AJ4u.. Just pray for him.
    Okay, Arbed I submit to that request.

  4. #43
    Odan talibilm09's Avatar
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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    Just pray for him AJ4u.. Just pray for him.
    Pray to who ? The Person (Yahweh) who walked and ate hot buns & calf meat at Sara's house and did unto her OR the computer hackers or the lying, low births who are carrying activities being paid My missionaries ( THE LIARS) to obstruct peaceful Muslims intruding into the Muslim Forum.?

  5. #44
    Odan talibilm09's Avatar
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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    Okay, Arbed I submit to that request.
    Lol, Coward, You should only hide behind her cover in the pretext of Praying , good idea uh laugh man

    Pray to your Creator to get guided to the ONLY True religion of Islam . These 60-70 years will pass like 6-7 years , so repent and come out of Crooked conspiracies which My lord was & is watching & will handle You Liars.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    Pray to who ? The Person (Yahweh) who walked and ate hot buns & calf meat at Sara's house and did unto her OR the computer hackers or the lying, low births who are carrying activities being paid My missionaries ( THE LIARS) to obstruct peaceful Muslims intruding into the Muslim Forum.?
    Pray to God, the God of Abraham and all the prophets. Because I believe only God can help you.

  7. #46
    Odan talibilm09's Avatar
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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    Pray to God, the God of Abraham and all the prophets. Because I believe only God can help you.

    Of course Allah of Abraham(pbuh) was helping me when I was in my Mum's Womb and I keep my trust in him Alone for to Live the way life that his Son , Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) showed us and he helps me always through out my Life which I've experienced it and I keep my trust in Him Alone for my hereafter.

    But your words are nice on the external 'ONE GOD'' but internally keep a word was god , a Holy spirit was god and you made god vulnerable to them which is nothing but polytheism in '' DISGUISE '' even when you know your words of Jesus were written not before 50 years of Jesus's Vanishing and there are Clear third party words which did not come from either God , the Lord OR Jesus himself. But My Allah's words are 100 % Preserved without this insertion, tampering which I can trust 100 %

  8. #47

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Vedas has no authority to Christians and Christianity is a monotheistic religion. It always had been and always will be

  9. #48
    Odan talibilm09's Avatar
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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    It will be a great injustice If I fail to mention about Dr. Ved Prakash Upadhyay (research scholar, sanskrit, Prayag university) who was a Brahmin Hindu and is associated with a main department of the Allahabad University. He named his research ‘Kalki Autar’, meaning ‘leader of the entire Universe’.Pandit Ved Prakash is renowned as a researcher and a scholar of the Sanskrit language. He has presented his research to the eight famous and topmost Hindu pandits of the country, who are deemed authority in their respective areas of study. These pundits, after their research and detailed study, have accepted arguments presented in the book as correct and authentic.

    His biography details could be seen before many years but they are missing online now , where He and his wife embraced Islam after having Dream of Prophet Muhammad (which is written below as rememberd from my faint memory)

    Where he said something like he was fed up arguing with people about his research and was deprived of all the comforts that were once given as the Head of the Pundits and he and his few other pundits with the same view were made to suffer. He saw in the dream that he was chased away in the streets and escaping crowds of armed people only to slip and fall and he looked up and saw a Person with the beard standing extending him a helping hand to get up from the Ground and he asked who he was and he replied I am Muhammad (saw) your nabi. He got up in shock and felt a good fragrance and woke his wife and she too felt the Fragrance in their house and both converted to Islam and were chased away from their locality.

    If any one know more details about them kindly update here,please.

    Kindly read this for his findings in the research

    http://makashfa.wordpress.com/2014/0...du-literature/

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/6041525/KA...Y-HINDU-PUNDIT
    Narashansaha is a Prophecy of a GREAT SAVIOUR Prophesied in all the four holy Vedas,The scriptures of the Hindus written before about 4000 years ago, who was a mystery untill the 20th century when literature & knowledge about other religions were easily available and when Sanskrit scholars studied literature of other religions, then only they could solve the puzzle of this great Expected Saviour of the World Prophesied in all four Vedas which also spoke about Prophet Abraham as Abrham , the circumcised one.

    Scholars who did this research works in those 4 holy Vedas are Dr. Ved Prakash Upadhyay (research scholar, sanskrit, Prayag university)as described in the above Quote , Dr M.A. Shrivastav, Pandit Dharam Veer Upadhyay etc.

    Meaning of the Word ''Narashansaha ''

    “Narashansa” in Sanskrit is a combination of two words that is Nar and Ashans. 'Nar'' means'' human being ''and '' Ashansh'' means “The praised ones“ or Muhammad in Arabic The great scholar Sayan who wrote the explanations of holy Vedas says: Narashansa means “The one who is praised by human being“. The Sanskrit meaning of said text is also confirmed TRUE by a different HINDU Scholar of high Eminence Shree Dhyanand Saraswati (Rigveda-Hindi Bhasha, page 25 published by Arya Samajhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya_Samaj )

    Holy Vedas has predicted many things about “Narashansa” as in NT OT. Some them are as follow:

    1) Holy Vedas says that he will be soft spoken, or his speech will be mesmerising ( 'Altogether Lovely ' in 5:16 Song of Songs & Isaiah 42:2 soft spoken https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...A2&version=CJB)

    2) Holy Vedas says that he could forecast the future. (as in John 16 :13 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...3+&version=CJB)

    3) Holy Vedas says that he will have extremely pleasing personality.( Song of Songs 5:16 ''Altogether Lovely'' Isaiah 42:1 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...1+&version=CJB )

    4)Holy Vedas says that holy Narashansa will purify human being from sins. ( darkness of sins Isaiah 42:7 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...A7&version=CJB & in John 'Glorify me & lead to all truth thus clearing of Biggest sins of Shirk & Slandering )

    5)Holy Vedas says that holy narashansa will ride camel. He will have 12 wives.( deserts, kedar 2nd son of Abraham lives https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...11&version=CJB and Prophet(pbuh) had twelve wives if slave wife of Maria(raa) is included )

    6) Holy Vedas says that holy Narashansa will be praised by masses in every era. ( Yes he was praised from Noah untill Jesus and even Michael H hart as the TOP no 1 in the world in every Scripture & religion)

    7) Holy Vedas predicted that God will give holy Narashansa following things:

    a) 10 Garlends,
    b) 100 Gold coins.
    c) 300 Horses.
    d) 10,000 cows

    For further descriptions & proofs kindly read https://makashfa.wordpress.com/2014/...du-literature/

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    The Vedas are the Hindu scriptures. Mohammed being mentioned in the Hindu scriptures which Muslims see as a polytheistic religion makes as much sense as claiming Mohammed was mentioned in the Bible, which they believe to be corrupted. IMHO
    because the bible being corrupted doesn't mean there isn't still snippets of things that are still intact or semi intact.
    Allah sent down his tranquillity upon him and supported him with angels you did not see and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowest, while the word of Allah - that is the highest. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.

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    Odan snow_flakes's Avatar
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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post


    Narashansaha is a Prophecy of a GREAT SAVIOUR Prophesied in all the four holy Vedas,The scriptures of the Hindus written before about 4000 years ago, who was a mystery untill the 20th century when literature & knowledge about other religions were easily available and when Sanskrit scholars studied literature of other religions, then only they could solve the puzzle of this great Expected Saviour of the World Prophesied in all four Vedas which also spoke about Prophet Abraham as Abrham , the circumcised one.

    Scholars who did this research works in those 4 holy Vedas are Dr. Ved Prakash Upadhyay (research scholar, sanskrit, Prayag university)as described in the above Quote , Dr M.A. Shrivastav, Pandit Dharam Veer Upadhyay etc.

    Meaning of the Word ''Narashansaha ''

    “Narashansa” in Sanskrit is a combination of two words that is Nar and Ashans. 'Nar'' means'' human being ''and '' Ashansh'' means “The praised ones“ or Muhammad in Arabic The great scholar Sayan who wrote the explanations of holy Vedas says: Narashansa means “The one who is praised by human being“. The Sanskrit meaning of said text is also confirmed TRUE by a different HINDU Scholar of high Eminence Shree Dhyanand Saraswati (Rigveda-Hindi Bhasha, page 25 published by Arya Samajhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya_Samaj )

    Holy Vedas has predicted many things about “Narashansa” as in NT OT. Some them are as follow:

    1) Holy Vedas says that he will be soft spoken, or his speech will be mesmerising ( 'Altogether Lovely ' in 5:16 Song of Songs & Isaiah 42:2 soft spoken https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...A2&version=CJB)

    2) Holy Vedas says that he could forecast the future. (as in John 16 :13 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...3+&version=CJB)

    3) Holy Vedas says that he will have extremely pleasing personality.( Song of Songs 5:16 ''Altogether Lovely'' Isaiah 42:1 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...1+&version=CJB )

    4)Holy Vedas says that holy Narashansa will purify human being from sins. ( darkness of sins Isaiah 42:7 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...A7&version=CJB & in John 'Glorify me & lead to all truth thus clearing of Biggest sins of Shirk & Slandering )

    5)Holy Vedas says that holy narashansa will ride camel. He will have 12 wives.( deserts, kedar 2nd son of Abraham lives https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...11&version=CJB and Prophet(pbuh) had twelve wives if slave wife of Maria(raa) is included )

    6) Holy Vedas says that holy Narashansa will be praised by masses in every era. ( Yes he was praised from Noah untill Jesus and even Michael H hart as the TOP no 1 in the world in every Scripture & religion)

    7) Holy Vedas predicted that God will give holy Narashansa following things:

    a) 10 Garlends,
    b) 100 Gold coins.
    c) 300 Horses.
    d) 10,000 cows

    For further descriptions & proofs kindly read https://makashfa.wordpress.com/2014/...du-literature/
    i hope more hindus ll see the truth in their scriptures that relates to prophet s message...islam.And inshAllah more ll embrace islam.
    ".......He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them (kuffar) their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy.Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it;but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief."(5:64)

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Upanishads and puranas also foretell about prophet
    ".......He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them (kuffar) their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy.Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it;but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief."(5:64)

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post

    Of course Allah of Abraham(pbuh) was helping me when I was in my Mum's Womb and I keep my trust in him Alone for to Live the way life that his Son , Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) showed us and he helps me always through out my Life which I've experienced it and I keep my trust in Him Alone for my hereafter.

    But your words are nice on the external 'ONE GOD'' but internally keep a word was god , a Holy spirit was god and you made god vulnerable to them which is nothing but polytheism in '' DISGUISE '' even when you know your words of Jesus were written not before 50 years of Jesus's Vanishing and there are Clear third party words which did not come from either God , the Lord OR Jesus himself. But My Allah's words are 100 % Preserved without this insertion, tampering which I can trust 100 %
    See you can't even enjoin in a simple prayer to the God we both share. The God of Abraham. you cannot help but be rude and confrontational. Never mind. I shall continue to pray for you Talibilm because I truly see the pain, hate and anger in virtually every post you make.

    May the Love of God ease your soul, dispel your anger and turn your hatred to love. May you be blessed and find peace. Amen

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by hadmatter View Post
    because the bible being corrupted doesn't mean there isn't still snippets of things that are still intact or semi intact.
    But that doesn't make sense. How can you know what is corrupted and any "snippets" of things that are true? Without evidence of what actually was corrupted then it's impossible to trust anything. Besides manuscript evidence shows that the Torah and the Gospel.. Injil was canonised in its present form centuries before Mohammed. Any textual errors by scribes in translations does not effect the original autographs.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    See you can't even enjoin in a simple prayer to the God we both share. The God of Abraham. you cannot help but be rude and confrontational. Never mind. I shall continue to pray for you Talibilm because I truly see the pain, hate and anger in virtually every post you make.

    May the Love of God ease your soul, dispel your anger and turn your hatred to love. May you be blessed and find peace. Amen
    You see me only EXTERNALLY . Sister Arbed but only your God of Abraham know what is in my heart . Read the last post to aju4u in abraham sarah issac, that's for you too, which i will post it later as am leaving for my morning prayers

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    You see me only EXTERNALLY . Sister Arbed but only your God of Abraham know what is in my heart . Read the last post to aju4u in abraham sarah issac, that's for you too, which i will post it later as am leaving for my morning prayers
    Please don't bother reposting it.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    See you can't even enjoin in a simple prayer to the God we both share. The God of Abraham. you cannot help but be rude and confrontational. Never mind. I shall continue to pray for you Talibilm because I truly see the pain, hate and anger in virtually every post you make.

    May the Love of God ease your soul, dispel your anger and turn your hatred to love. May you be blessed and find peace. Amen
    Brother talibilm is wise enough to see when love from christians turns up ...Let him do his job to convert hindus to islam...you can stick to christianity thread..or do you think you believe in paganism to be guided ??
    ".......He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them (kuffar) their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy.Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it;but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief."(5:64)

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    Please don't bother reposting it.
    Why not...repititove arguments needed to be countered same way.
    ".......He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them (kuffar) their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy.Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it;but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief."(5:64)

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by snow_flakes View Post
    Why not...repititove arguments needed to be countered same way.
    I read it already.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    I read it already.
    New comers didnt...they complain no one take them seriously...
    ".......He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them (kuffar) their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy.Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it;but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief."(5:64)

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    See you can't even enjoin in a simple prayer to the God we both share. The God of Abraham.


    I do Enjoin prayers For all my fellow humans ( to my dear Christian , Jewish Friends & at ummah Jdxp, Kepha,Descartes, Causative,Arbed ,Johnson, Serada, isa, esa ,aj4u etc etc) to THE LORD of Abraham (pbuh) who Blessed Sarah (pbuh) with a Lovely Male Child through his Spirit of command through Gabriel (not walking,eating angels or Y) while he was still on his throne over the heavens. Allah swt could have done that even without the aid of Gabriel but Allah , Al wali , THE Protecting Friend gave Care,respect, and love to his so called servants by informing them in advance that he is gonna bless a child so that its not a shock for them all of a sudden with a protruding stomach and not even intruding into their Rights of Privacy of to be inseminated by the spirit of Command of Allah ( see the decency of the Highest degree that Allah has with his servants) though he has ALL RIGHTS to do without intimation to us after all we are his creations as honured Humans ( which we never prayed for ) as He wished so Or we would have been a stinking Cockroaches or a Creeping Worm in a sewage hole , If Allah has so wished.

    Let me recall the Decency of Allah with his khaleelulah (friend of Allah ) Abraham (pbuh) before his death , the angel of Death appeared asking him (Something like this )''Allah has asked permission to take your life '' for Which Ibrahim asks '' how can a friend take another friend's life ? '' and Allah replies Israeel (Angel of death) '' Ask him will a friend will not Long to meet his friend ? '' Abraham(pbuh) should have broke down with a smile and it was done . And Allah did the same with respect with all messengers and even some Saints ( Awliyaallah ) of Islam had such intimations (ilhaam )

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    you cannot help but be rude and confrontational. Never mind. I shall continue to pray for you Talibilm because I truly see the pain, hate and anger in virtually every post you make.
    When a doctor brings an injection , Do you call him (doctor) hey you, how rude you are you are going to poke me, pain me with a needle ? , Sister

    When a Doctor comes out with a knife to cut open your Skin to remove the pus which if not removed will further exacerbate your ulcer killing the adjoining tissues & cell , will you call him ,you are very Rude ! ? because he pains you ?, Sister

    My hate and anger is at Satan the enemy of all of us who took our parents out of paradise, stripping them from their heavenly cloths and Luxury. My Shouts are never for my Personal reason nor I think high of Myself ( Only Allah is the most High) . Kindly Take them as bitter pills but good in its result.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    May the Love of God ease your soul, dispel your anger and turn your hatred to love. May you be blessed and find peace. Amen
    Ameen to the Lord of Ibrahim, Allah.I have been always that way ( but you will not know, internally like I do with my kids) since i started more seriously in Islam and my wife scolds i sleep immediately once my head is on the pillow. I had kidney stones before a month but it came out naturally within 2 days after medication naturally by the Help of Allah even without 30 % of symptoms or pain for its size which made even Doctors (My Sister one of them ) and relatives who had gone through bad experience of such stones puzzled who thought I never had one untill a ultrasound scan was taken and consequently medicines were started at once.All praise to the Lord of Ibrahim (pbuh) ameen


    Note : I am having a whip of words (learnt from You people from You tube) which i will use if I see lies, twisting but i never use them against honest mistakes of people as the saying goes to err is Human. I never call it as a LIE or a LIAR because some non muslim present their belief but when it appears when they deliberately misquote even in their scripture's verse to misguide us, i deserve to keep my rights to use on them. But If I had exceeded or transgressed in my LIMITS against You or any one , My sincere Apologies to You & them all , since you will have to pity me, try be in my shoes , since i am just a human like you , that could Err too.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by snow_flakes View Post
    New comers didnt...they complain no one take them seriously...
    Brother Talibilm said in his post he would repost it for "my benefit".. I already read it and asked him politely not to bother reposting it.

    What's your problem with that? Or why would you seek to make a problem where non exists?

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post


    I do Enjoin prayers For all my fellow humans ( to my dear Christian , Jewish Friends & at ummah Jdxp, Kepha,Descartes, Causative,Arbed ,Johnson, Serada, isa, esa ,aj4u etc etc) to THE LORD of Abraham (pbuh) who Blessed Sarah (pbuh) with a Lovely Male Child through his Spirit of command through Gabriel (not walking,eating angels or Y) while he was still on his throne over the heavens. Allah swt could have done that even without the aid of Gabriel but Allah , Al wali , THE Protecting Friend gave Care,respect, and love to his so called servants by informing them in advance that he is gonna bless a child so that its not a shock for them all of a sudden with a protruding stomach and not even intruding into their Rights of Privacy of to be inseminated by the spirit of Command of Allah ( see the decency of the Highest degree that Allah has with his servants) though he has ALL RIGHTS to do without intimation to us after all we are his creations as honured Humans ( which we never prayed for ) as He wished so Or we would have been a stinking Cockroaches or a Creeping Worm in a sewage hole , If Allah has so wished.


    Why could you not leave it as a simple prayer? Why do you feel you have to put your interpretation of Biblical scripture into the mix? You are the only person I have ever heard say this blasphemous idea about Sarah and the birth of Isaac. Please where did you hear of it before. I told I had heard this to a Christian friend recently (I did not say where) He was horrified and said in the whole of his life he had never heard such an idea. The miracle of Sarah was God rejuvenating her aged womb to enable her to conceive a child, we know Abraham was able to produce the seed for such a child, as Abraham had already fathered Ishmael and went on to have further children with Kentura his second wife after the death of Sarah. Do you think God needed the help of a mere creation .. An angel.. To make this happen? When God by the power of His word can make the impossible happen.

    Let me recall the Decency of Allah with his khaleelulah (friend of Allah ) Abraham (pbuh) before his death , the angel of Death appeared asking him (Something like this )''Allah has asked permission to take your life '' for Which Ibrahim asks '' how can a friend take another friend's life ? '' and Allah replies Israeel (Angel of death) '' Ask him will a friend will not Long to meet his friend ? '' Abraham(pbuh) should have broke down with a smile and it was done . And Allah did the same with respect with all messengers and even some Saints ( Awliyaallah ) of Islam had such intimations (ilhaam )
    That's your belief. I respect that even though I may not be in agreement with you. Difference being I am NOT calling you a liar for having a different point of view to my own.

    When a doctor brings an injection , Do you call him (doctor) hey you, how rude you are you are going to poke me, pain me with a needle ? , Sister

    When a Doctor comes out with a knife to cut open your Skin to remove the pus which if not removed will further exacerbate your ulcer killing the adjoining tissues & cell , will you call him ,you are very Rude ! ? because he pains you ?, Sister
    No.. Because the Doctor has good reason. I have not given you reason to abuse me the way you have since I joined this forum with your constant slanders against my person. Just because I cannot agree with your interpretations of Biblical scripture. Take our discourse on the "Comforter = Mohammed" question. I explained using scripture why it could not apply to Mohammed, I put forth clear reasons instead of discussion you chose to insult me personally to an extent I felt I had to ignore your posts for a time.

    My hate and anger is at Satan the enemy of all of us who took our parents out of paradise, stripping them from their heavenly cloths and Luxury. My Shouts are never for my Personal reason nor I think high of Myself ( Only Allah is the most High) . Kindly Take them as bitter pills but good in its result.
    It seems like your hate and anger is from Satan not against him. Because you direct it at a person who has done you no wrong, a person you do not even know well enough to pass such judgements against them. You need to understand the nature of satan the father of lies and Lord of deception, then you would not be unintentionally doing his work for him... Which is to cause pain and distress to another. Satan is hate ... God is love. You should err on the side of love so hate does not get a foothold in your life... Except of course for the source of all hatred..satan. He we have as a common enemy and we should be uniting against him for the glory of God. Not bickering and sniping with cruel words.


    [QUOTE]Ameen to the Lord of Ibrahim, Allah.I have been always that way ( but you will not know, internally like I do with my kids) since i started more seriously in Islam and my wife scolds i sleep immediately once my head is on the pillow. I had kidney stones before a month but it came out naturally within 2 days after medication naturally by the Help of Allah even without 30 % of symptoms or pain for its size which made even Doctors (My Sister one of them ) and relatives who had gone through bad experience of such stones puzzled who thought I never had one untill a ultrasound scan was taken and consequently medicines were started at once.All praise to the Lord of Ibrahim (pbuh) ameen


    I'm sure you are a good husband and father and treat your family well. Why do you need to leave good behaviour at home? Best spread it among every person you meet.. Even the virtual ones.

    Note : I am having a whip of words (learnt from You people from You tube) which i will use if I see lies, twisting but i never use them against honest mistakes of people as the saying goes to err is Human. I never call it as a LIE or a LIAR because some non muslim present their belief but when it appears when they deliberately misquote even in their scripture's verse to misguide us, i deserve to keep my rights to use on them. But If I had exceeded or transgressed in my LIMITS against You or any one , My sincere Apologies to You & them all , since you will have to pity me, try be in my shoes , since i am just a human like you , that could Err too.[/COLOR]
    Well... YouTube .. Case in point, and why I never use it. You should use scripture itself, find a knowledgable christian to ask if you do not understand it, failing that there are many good reliable sites that offer clear explanations of Bible scripture.. And I don't mean sites that start with answering this or that.. Stay away from those. You are forming your opinions about christians and Christianity from a dubious source to start with. I agree to err is human ... And we all make mistakes. But if I want clarification on a Sura or Islam I would ask a Muslim. You don't ask christians to clarify bible verses, you have already formed your opinion from your YouTube... How do you know what their agenda is? You often refer to Bart Erhman.. An Atheist!!! How can you expect an honest unbiased opinion on religion from an atheist ?? If he decides to disseminate the Quran you can be sure he would treat it in the same high handed manner. Don't forget he makes money from what he does.. People pay for his opinions are I am not saying they are not of value or he is out right lying or anything like that. But at the end of the day it's his opinion. It doesn't make it truth according to God.
    So then armed with their opinions you take the stance that you know more about Bible scripture than any practicing Christian and if their opinion disagrees with yours... Then they are liars and deceivers and are twisting their scripture. now that is exceeding and transgressing limits... It's also painful to read.. Not painful for me as a Christian but I sometimes feel pain on your behalf when I see how you have misunderstood something but cannot or will not listen to reason.

    I can easy forgive you this, because I see you have great faith in God... And I don't believe you intentionally intend your posts to cause offence. I have said it before and I say it again... I am not your enemy, I am not trying to force Christianity on you God made you a Muslim if God wants you to be a Muslim then that's what you shall be. To each their own. I do not like to see the scriptures I see as Gods work misinterpreted to mean something it does not just to suit an agenda. I will speak on that.

    Peace to you Brother Talib.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    Why could you not leave it as a simple prayer? Why do you feel you have to put your interpretation of Biblical scripture into the mix? You are the only person I have ever heard say this blasphemous idea about Sarah and the birth of Isaac. Please where did you hear of it before.
    Arbed This is what shows the cockeyed views of apologetics who try to act as blind and deaf even seeing the truth of insertions of vulgarity, dishonour for God but still want to die Defending it with a lie for a Lie ( not an eye for an eye as our scriptures tell- to be fair ) even before I heared from Mr Deedat i've compared those verseswith the noble Quran which makes to make our mind which is from God ? and which is not ? ( walking, talking, eating,gigling Y it makes my blood boil when you still BLINDLY SUPPORT IT shows that you will never get GUIDED , naudhubillah )

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    I told I had heard this to a Christian friend recently (I did not say where) He was horrified and said in the whole of his life he had never heard such an idea. The miracle of Sarah was God rejuvenating her aged womb to enable her to conceive a child, we know Abraham was able to produce the seed for such a child
    that's because you were blind all these days and if you want to continue being blind unlike your brethren who have just opened their eyes and are reverting to Islam its your CHOiCE.


    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    as Abraham had already fathered Ishmael and went on to have further children with Kentura his second wife after the death of Sarah. Do you think God needed the help of a mere creation .. An angel.. To make this happen? When God by the power of His word can make the impossible happen.
    I did not say that God needed help of an angel . Instead its Gods (Allah's ) spirit of Command through Gabriel and as I said its the respect Allah gives to His righteous servants though he reserves all right not to foretell them make her pregnant . So think first why Yahweh must walk, eat & giggle its does not suit the High majesty of Allah when he can say it as '' be '' and it is


    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    That's your belief. I respect that even though I may not be in agreement with you. Difference being I am NOT calling you a liar for having a different point of view to my own.
    Even I do not call a liar for holding your beliefs untill its very clear like in the matter as above untill you quote an unreasonable different story JUST to hide a lie with more lies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    No.. Because the Doctor has good reason. I have not given you reason to abuse me the way you have since I joined this forum with your constant slanders against my person. Just because I cannot agree with your interpretations of Biblical scripture. Take our discourse on the "Comforter = Mohammed" question. I explained using scripture why it could not apply to Mohammed, I put forth clear reasons instead of discussion you chose to insult me personally to an extent I felt I had to ignore your posts for a time.
    I do not write or mock without reason. Proof is my first mocking post against you in '' why Jesus is not the son of God ?'' post # 206
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...n-of-god/page6 where you claimed having 3 gods does not decrease the greatness of God . Before this I was a Good gentle man with gentle posts answering you

    So you have to seriously RE EVALUATE my posts which you always slandered me as Gutter, Rude etc etc which I only took it with a and never even - repped for them until your posts were below the standard of common sense on which I,ve asked you '' are you drunk ?'' And I know myself & My habbit ,that i never do ''tit for tat '' unless you have mistaken in the part of Religion and not for your abuse or mocks against me personally. So I had apologised in my last with an '' IF'' so that if i have exceeded my limits which I surely think it did not but if it resembles as such ' I gave you One as a humane & fair brother'' I hope about which, You will not take unfair advantage by going back again to square 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    It seems like your hate and anger is from Satan not against him. Because you direct it at a person who has done you no wrong, a person you do not even know well enough to pass such judgements against them. You need to understand the nature of satan the father of lies and Lord of deception, then you would not be unintentionally doing his work for him... Which is to cause pain and distress to another. Satan is hate ... God is love. You should err on the side of love so hate does not get a foothold in your life... Except of course for the source of all hatred..satan. He we have as a common enemy and we should be uniting against him for the glory of God. Not bickering and sniping with cruel words.
    Sorry dear I strongly refuse this by pointing to my above quote '' So you have to seriously RE EVALUATE my posts.......''
    and I want to really reciprocate all those words you had said to me AGAINST YOU and request you NOT TO BE OVER PREJUDICED with your CORRUPT books . which is nothing but a '' OPEN SECRET '' but i feel for you since everyone loves his own religion like loving his own kid even though he is Ugly or disabled. But I will say you humbly to make up your COURAGE to come out from your slavery to your ego & assumptions because the Last Comforter ' s Book the Noble Quran said in verse something like if Allah had willed he would have made all of us born in 1 religion but he had did this only as a test how do we handle ourselves in such a situation, i think it may refer to Do we surrender to Ego,Satan or to our Creator. So I always say REVERTS are much greater than born muslims like us because they are real rich heroes with the great sacrifice and they are rewarded appropriately by forgival of the past sins even they did the biggest ones for past 90 years .


    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post

    I'm sure you are a good husband and father and treat your family well. Why do you need to leave good behaviour at home? Best spread it among every person you meet.. Even the virtual ones.
    No you did nt get me, My kids say I more kinder & reasonable than their Mummy but I show my anger when its necessary to keep away their friendship with satans . thats what our Prophet (pbuh) insisted something like who is good in the sight of their wife are also good at the sight of Allah & spread Salam to those we know and also to those who do not know. Yeah, I am abiding by it AMAP


    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    Well... YouTube .. Case in point, and why I never use it. You should use scripture itself, find a knowledgable christian to ask if you do not understand it, failing that there are many good reliable sites that offer clear explanations of Bible scripture.. And I don't mean sites that start with answering this or that.. Stay away from those. You are forming your opinions about christians and Christianity from a dubious source to start with. I agree to err is human ... And we all make mistakes.
    I got enthusiasm to learn more about Islam & also about Your religion only after seeing the absurd videos of Apologetics . If you had asked me about my views about the '' comforter'' about 5 years back i would replied you ' yeah I like that stuff , i always use when watching TV ( the Comforting recliner sofa) Lol. I always recheck whatever I see on the youtubes with our & your Books.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    But if I want clarification on a Sura or Islam I would ask a Muslim. You don't ask christians to clarify bible verses, you have already formed your opinion from your YouTube... How do you know what their agenda is? You often refer to Bart Erhman.. An Atheist!!! How can you expect an honest unbiased opinion on religion from an atheist ?? If he decides to disseminate the Quran you can be sure he would treat it in the same high handed manner. Don't forget he makes money from what he does.. People pay for his opinions are I am not saying they are not of value or he is out right lying or anything like that. But at the end of the day it's his opinion. It doesn't make it truth according to God.
    So then armed with their opinions you take the stance that you know more about Bible scripture than any practicing Christian and if their opinion disagrees with yours... Then they are liars and deceivers and are twisting their scripture. now that is exceeding and transgressing limits... It's also painful to read.. Not painful for me as a Christian but I sometimes feel pain on your behalf when I see how you have misunderstood something but cannot or will not listen to reason.
    Sorry sister, I strongly disagree with your Bart Erhman views which shows your BLUNT ANGER but NOT GENUINE REASON & your THIRST to support your religion. If i am angry here on the ummah it does not mean that i am always angry so the root cause should be known and similarly all problems, consequences will have a root cause which we should carefully investigate .

    So blindly calling Bart Erhman an atheist is not Fair who claims to be an agnostic . If you see his history of more than 30 years as a staunch Christian , a hardcore Evangelist and Missionary he would have made MUCH more Money in donations with his great knowledge slandering Islam as other apologetics Like Smith, Wood are still doing , but he did not do that , So your BLUNT SLANDERING ( its your usual habbit dear you have to accept it when you get angry) is 100 % wrong. he was Once a very much better Chrisitian like you and studied in the the Moodys Bible Institute which Since 1886, has been preparing students for ministry, with a combination of biblical knowledge and ministry experience. and he was Top student there along with Craig . Just compare talks of both you will find a HUGE difference in knowledge between them both shows Bart sincerity to his religion, But he is not a Lair like Craig but opt to tell the truth like the Hindu Pundit Dr vedaprakash as in this thread post # 48 who was also shunned by Hindus



    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    I can easy forgive you this, because I see you have great faith in God... And I don't believe you intentionally intend your posts to cause offence. I have said it before and I say it again... I am not your enemy, I am not trying to force Christianity on you God made you a Muslim if God wants you to be a Muslim then that's what you shall be. To each their own. I do not like to see the scriptures I see as Gods work misinterpreted to mean something it does not just to suit an agenda. I will speak on that.
    those are good words but Arbed just think If Muslims come to your website and do what you are doing ( though you refuse what all you quoted against our Beleifs on a muslim forum hurting 1000's ) beleive they will let him be in the site for more than couple of days , They have sodomised him ONLY with filthy words in that Sense Myself and Muslims here on the forum are STILL much civilised and to be proud off their toleranace.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    Peace to you Brother Talib.
    So sister , seems you have Spoiled the Peace (a little bit) againn, dear with your same style but still a little better than what it used to be before, so that we are not back to square 1.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post


    Arbed This is what shows the cockeyed views of apologetics who try to act as blind and deaf even seeing the truth of insertions of vulgarity, dishonour for God but still want to die Defending it with a lie for a Lie ( not an eye for an eye as our scriptures tell- to be fair ) even before I heared from Mr Deedat i've compared those verseswith the noble Quran which makes to make our mind which is from God ? and which is not ? ( walking, talking, eating,gigling Y it makes my blood boil when you still BLINDLY SUPPORT IT shows that you will never get GUIDED , naudhubillah )



    that's because you were blind all these days and if you want to continue being blind unlike your brethren who have just opened their eyes and are reverting to Islam its your CHOiCE.




    I did not say that God needed help of an angel . Instead its Gods (Allah's ) spirit of Command through Gabriel and as I said its the respect Allah gives to His righteous servants though he reserves all right not to foretell them make her pregnant . So think first why Yahweh must walk, eat & giggle its does not suit the High majesty of Allah when he can say it as '' be '' and it is




    Even I do not call a liar for holding your beliefs untill its very clear like in the matter as above untill you quote an unreasonable different story JUST to hide a lie with more lies.



    I do not write or mock without reason. Proof is my first mocking post against you in '' why Jesus is not the son of God ?'' post # 206
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...n-of-god/page6 where you claimed having 3 gods does not decrease the greatness of God . Before this I was a Good gentle man with gentle posts answering you

    So you have to seriously RE EVALUATE my posts which you always slandered me as Gutter, Rude etc etc which I only took it with a and never even - repped for them until your posts were below the standard of common sense on which I,ve asked you '' are you drunk ?'' And I know myself & My habbit ,that i never do ''tit for tat '' unless you have mistaken in the part of Religion and not for your abuse or mocks against me personally. So I had apologised in my last with an '' IF'' so that if i have exceeded my limits which I surely think it did not but if it resembles as such ' I gave you One as a humane & fair brother'' I hope about which, You will not take unfair advantage by going back again to square 1.



    Sorry dear I strongly refuse this by pointing to my above quote '' So you have to seriously RE EVALUATE my posts.......''
    and I want to really reciprocate all those words you had said to me AGAINST YOU and request you NOT TO BE OVER PREJUDICED with your CORRUPT books . which is nothing but a '' OPEN SECRET '' but i feel for you since everyone loves his own religion like loving his own kid even though he is Ugly or disabled. But I will say you humbly to make up your COURAGE to come out from your slavery to your ego & assumptions because the Last Comforter ' s Book the Noble Quran said in verse something like if Allah had willed he would have made all of us born in 1 religion but he had did this only as a test how do we handle ourselves in such a situation, i think it may refer to Do we surrender to Ego,Satan or to our Creator. So I always say REVERTS are much greater than born muslims like us because they are real rich heroes with the great sacrifice and they are rewarded appropriately by forgival of the past sins even they did the biggest ones for past 90 years .




    No you did nt get me, My kids say I more kinder & reasonable than their Mummy but I show my anger when its necessary to keep away their friendship with satans . thats what our Prophet (pbuh) insisted something like who is good in the sight of their wife are also good at the sight of Allah & spread Salam to those we know and also to those who do not know. Yeah, I am abiding by it AMAP




    I got enthusiasm to learn more about Islam & also about Your religion only after seeing the absurd videos of Apologetics . If you had asked me about my views about the '' comforter'' about 5 years back i would replied you ' yeah I like that stuff , i always use when watching TV ( the Comforting recliner sofa) Lol. I always recheck whatever I see on the youtubes with our & your Books.



    Sorry sister, I strongly disagree with your Bart Erhman views which shows your BLUNT ANGER but NOT GENUINE REASON & your THIRST to support your religion. If i am angry here on the ummah it does not mean that i am always angry so the root cause should be known and similarly all problems, consequences will have a root cause which we should carefully investigate .

    So blindly calling Bart Erhman an atheist is not Fair who claims to be an agnostic . If you see his history of more than 30 years as a staunch Christian , a hardcore Evangelist and Missionary he would have made MUCH more Money in donations with his great knowledge slandering Islam as other apologetics Like Smith, Wood are still doing , but he did not do that , So your BLUNT SLANDERING ( its your usual habbit dear you have to accept it when you get angry) is 100 % wrong. he was Once a very much better Chrisitian like you and studied in the the Moodys Bible Institute which Since 1886, has been preparing students for ministry, with a combination of biblical knowledge and ministry experience. and he was Top student there along with Craig . Just compare talks of both you will find a HUGE difference in knowledge between them both shows Bart sincerity to his religion, But he is not a Lair like Craig but opt to tell the truth like the Hindu Pundit Dr vedaprakash as in this thread post # 48 who was also shunned by Hindus





    those are good words but Arbed just think If Muslims come to your website and do what you are doing ( though you refuse what all you quoted against our Beleifs on a muslim forum hurting 1000's ) beleive they will let him be in the site for more than couple of days , They have sodomised him ONLY with filthy words in that Sense Myself and Muslims here on the forum are STILL much civilised and to be proud off their toleranace.



    So sister , seems you have Spoiled the Peace (a little bit) againn, dear with your same style but still a little better than what it used to be before, so that we are not back to square 1.
    I'm amazed, you haven't understood a single thing I said.

    Have you heard the term ... Extend an Olive Branch.. Or to offer an Olive Branch? I offer one to you, ... look it up.

    I am expecting you to come back and slap me in the face with it. But rather hoping you will not. I'm not holding out any hopes in that regard.

    I shall continue to pray for you.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    I'm amazed, you haven't understood a single thing I said.

    Have you heard the term ... Extend an Olive Branch.. Or to offer an Olive Branch? I offer one to you, ... look it up.

    I am expecting you to come back and slap me in the face with it. But rather hoping you will not. I'm not holding out any hopes in that regard.

    I shall continue to pray for you.
    I am amazed that I should have quoted these above words FIRST, Sister Arbed when I had offered an Olive branch # 60 with an unessential apology but you had REKINDLED the past points (to win) again so i am forced to reply them again on those on which you are not satisfied with my reply . So you can ask your people How far I am correct with my statement if you think I am biased ..let the readers decide who is trying to advantage of One's (My ) Good intentions to give Mutual respect so your nature will not Change .

    That's why Allah has already Prophesied in the Noble Quran something like that the People of the book will NEVER get satisfied unless untill we become like them and accept the idea of eating. walking GOD ( attn: Hate Racism, be watchful of this verse)

    Sorry that will not be the way of the righteous to give up Haq or truth just to win human friendship and leaving My Creator The Lord of Abraham.

    EDIT : unanswered Point of your previous post due to late night sleepy

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    But if I want clarification on a Sura or Islam I would ask a Muslim. You don't ask christians to clarify bible verses,
    Everyone knows that Noble Quran and the Bible (not injeel ) is not the same .

    1)Noble Quran has 10,000's of LIVE witnesses who watched, heard the revelation of each and very verse but that's not the case of NT

    2) There is a separate Sahih hadith WARNING Muslims not to interpret the REAL EXACT MEANING of the Quran by themselves. Well bring me such a WARNING from Jesus with chain of Narrators

    3) we have Hadith which is from the blessed lips of the Prophet who had described most of the verses on clarification by the companions. But in Bible You all are still confused know which verse came from Jesus ?. God the Lord ? the assumed god Y ? from scribes ? from disciples ?.So which verse are you going to explain while the basic authenticity is ITSELF not proved

    4) Your UNBIASED 30 year experienced Bible Scholar Bart Erhman is a better proof for that

    5)Jesus had 12 disciple but Our Prophet (pbuh) had 120,000 Plus so more proofs and incidents regarding each of the Quran verse to relate for Islam and short , ascetic life of Jesus did not create as many incidents as our prophet (pbuh) which is in tons . I am leaving, let me continue later inshaalah

    There is no need to ask about Bible in 99 % of verses to you or the Christians as footnotes are given.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]S
    How would you reply to a Hindu then that says if Muhammad (saw) is mentioned in the Vedas than you should accept it as a scripture of God and you should not call it the scripture of the unbelievers ?

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by khan0987866 View Post
    How would you reply to a Hindu then that says if Muhammad (saw) is mentioned in the Vedas than you should accept it as a scripture of God and you should not call it the scripture of the unbelievers ?
    We know from the Noble Quran & the Hadith that there were about 124,000 messengers Of Allah in every part and every language of the world ( Bible puts it at more than staggering 1 Million which we do not believe except from Quran ) which we have to believe as it was said but we do not have ''NO AUTHORITY ''the right to DECLARE that he was the Prophet of GOD untill he was Mentioned in the noble Quran and hadith.

    This also applies to ALL verses of other Holy Books too we have'' No Authority '' to Declare but except to believe ONLY THOSE VERSES Even in OT, NT, Psalms, which are similar or very near 90 % of Noble Quran & NOT AGAINST THE NOBLE PRESERVED QURAN , The Latest Updated (testament in their language) as those verses of Allah which were revealed to them which are intact or less distorted and this will also apply in the case of Zend Avesta , Vedas and Dr Zakir Naik also includes the Buddhist Scripture with his proofs.

    Your main question of Not calling the Vedas of unbelievers is debatable since as in the case 3 Abrahamic faith Scriptures where there is a MIX of God words with Mans words and Vedas also have the Same but more corrupted than the 3 above with more Lengthy Period of Time of over 4000 years or Prophet Abraham (pbuh) contemporary who also had the Suhuf of Abraham(pbuh) but could not traced at all now.

    But the best answer could be '' DEDUCED '' from the hadiths and incidents of Madina in 623-624 AD where the Jews of Medina (3 tribes) used to recite and show their Scriptures of Hebrew to the newly arrived immigrant Muslims & Medinite reverts translating them into Arabic , So those Muslims asked the Prophet (pbuh) about its authenticity against which Prophet (pbuh) replied something like do not reject them nor accept them because we do not Hebrew from which they are reading and translating to us So it would be better we do not call as it (Vedas) as believers book Or its a unbelievers book

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    But that doesn't make sense. How can you know what is corrupted and any "snippets" of things that are true? Without evidence of what actually was corrupted then it's impossible to trust anything. Besides manuscript evidence shows that the Torah and the Gospel.. Injil was canonised in its present form centuries before Mohammed. Any textual errors by scribes in translations does not effect the original autographs.
    We can't know for sure, however, what we as Muslims know Allah speaks about in the Quran before hand in the injil which confirms the prophet is not a lie, because who would have altered it to conform to the description of the Prophet sallahAllahualayhiwasallam, a Muslim? Certainly not a christian. I hope you understand what I mean.
    Allah sent down his tranquillity upon him and supported him with angels you did not see and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowest, while the word of Allah - that is the highest. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by hadmatter View Post
    We can't know for sure, however, what we as Muslims know Allah speaks about in the Quran before hand in the injil which confirms the prophet is not a lie, because who would have altered it to conform to the description of the Prophet sallahAllahualayhiwasallam, a Muslim? Certainly not a christian. I hope you understand what I mean.
    If you can't know for sure then you shouldn't make such claims.

    What is spoken of in the Quran in regards to the Injil was already known to the world. The Torah and the Gospel was already known in Arabia. As was also known to be many Gnostic sects with their own versions of Gospels springing up all over the place. There are Gnostic accounts found in the Quran. You take on faith that the Quran is what it claims to be and I take on faith that the Bible is what it claims to be. I believe the Bible has more evidence for its claims than the Quran does. You will see it differently.

    There is nothing in the Bible that can be taken as conclusive proof that Mohammed was prophesied as a prophet to come after Christ. The Bible warns us about the appearance of false prophets of which there will be many, and tells us how to know them. It does not tell us to look for a new prophet.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    I am amazed that I should have quoted these above words FIRST, Sister Arbed when I had offered an Olive branch # 60 with an unessential apology but you had REKINDLED the past points (to win) again so i am forced to reply them again on those on which you are not satisfied with my reply . So you can ask your people How far I am correct with my statement if you think I am biased ..let the readers decide who is trying to advantage of One's (My ) Good intentions to give Mutual respect so your nature will not Change .

    That's why Allah has already Prophesied in the Noble Quran something like that the People of the book will NEVER get satisfied unless untill we become like them and accept the idea of eating. walking GOD ( attn: Hate Racism, be watchful of this verse)

    Sorry that will not be the way of the righteous to give up Haq or truth just to win human friendship and leaving My Creator The Lord of Abraham.

    EDIT : unanswered Point of your previous post due to late night sleepy



    Everyone knows that Noble Quran and the Bible (not injeel ) is not the same .

    1)Noble Quran has 10,000's of LIVE witnesses who watched, heard the revelation of each and very verse but that's not the case of NT

    2) There is a separate Sahih hadith WARNING Muslims not to interpret the REAL EXACT MEANING of the Quran by themselves. Well bring me such a WARNING from Jesus with chain of Narrators

    3) we have Hadith which is from the blessed lips of the Prophet who had described most of the verses on clarification by the companions. But in Bible You all are still confused know which verse came from Jesus ?. God the Lord ? the assumed god Y ? from scribes ? from disciples ?.So which verse are you going to explain while the basic authenticity is ITSELF not proved

    4) Your UNBIASED 30 year experienced Bible Scholar Bart Erhman is a better proof for that

    5)Jesus had 12 disciple but Our Prophet (pbuh) had 120,000 Plus so more proofs and incidents regarding each of the Quran verse to relate for Islam and short , ascetic life of Jesus did not create as many incidents as our prophet (pbuh) which is in tons . I am leaving, let me continue later inshaalah

    There is no need to ask about Bible in 99 % of verses to you or the Christians as footnotes are given.
    Sorry. It is ended. May God bless you.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    If you can't know for sure then you shouldn't make such claims.

    What is spoken of in the Quran in regards to the Injil was already known to the world. The Torah and the Gospel was already known in Arabia. As was also known to be many Gnostic sects with their own versions of Gospels springing up all over the place. There are Gnostic accounts found in the Quran. You take on faith that the Quran is what it claims to be and I take on faith that the Bible is what it claims to be. I believe the Bible has more evidence for its claims than the Quran does. You will see it differently.

    There is nothing in the Bible that can be taken as conclusive proof that Mohammed was prophesied as a prophet to come after Christ. The Bible warns us about the appearance of false prophets of which there will be many, and tells us how to know them. It does not tell us to look for a new prophet.
    it seems your not taking in anything im saying so ill just stop here. nice chatting with you but off i go (:
    Allah sent down his tranquillity upon him and supported him with angels you did not see and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowest, while the word of Allah - that is the highest. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by hadmatter View Post
    it seems your not taking in anything im saying so ill just stop here. nice chatting with you but off i go (:
    How can she or anyone. The burden of proof is on you since you are making the claim of gospel corruption. Tell us when, where, who, how and why it was done. Who stands to benefit from risking their lives to say Jesus is God's son who died for our sin and rose from the dead to give us eternal life?
    Show me where Muhammad said the gospel Christians have is corrupted; show where Allah or the Quran state that. If you cannot show proof, you only proof one thing, and that is that you are just parroting what other Muslims have told you without doing your own research...

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    How can she or anyone. The burden of proof is on you since you are making the claim of gospel corruption. Tell us when, where, who, how and why it was done. Who stands to benefit from risking their lives to say Jesus is God's son who died for our sin and rose from the dead to give us eternal life?
    Show me where Muhammad said the gospel Christians have is corrupted; show where Allah or the Quran state that. If you cannot show proof, you only proof one thing, and that is that you are just parroting what other Muslims have told you without doing your own research...
    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    You said corruption in the Bible is well known by everyone including Christians. I admit there are corrupt things people did recorded in the Bible, but that doesn't mean the Bible is corrupt or that God approve of it. The Bible's central message comes across loud and clear. There are translational issues and nonsense errors, but don't mistaken it for all out corruption. So corruption is not well know by us Christians on here. Besides, for Muslims to say that, aren't they going against the Quran where Allah states he sent the torah and gospel for guidance and light and the Quran confirms this?
    you dont consider these 'nonsense errors' as a big deal as long as the "central message is still the same" so id say there is really nothing for me to prove. muslims simply have a higher standard for the conservation of Allah's books.
    Allah sent down his tranquillity upon him and supported him with angels you did not see and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowest, while the word of Allah - that is the highest. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)


    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    What is spoken of in the Quran in regards to the Injil was already known to the world.
    Many Christians and Muslims still do not know that Both the scriptures have near Similar stories of Adam and Prophets example Learned people like Yusha Evans, the ex Christian ministers testifies that he did not in Quran there are histories of Prophets of Bible but in more dignified way. Nor Earlier (610 AD)The world knew that Jesus was born miraculously without father and was the messiah or that Mary was chaste (except Christians and some of them were also in doubt) or that he was not killed in an insulting manner by the Jews untill a TESTIMONY by the Noble Quran after which Hostility between You & the Jews reduced because the noble Quran made them to shut up their Slandering

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    The Torah and the Gospel was already known in Arabia.
    If a finger counting numbers of people like Rich Man like Woraka bin naufal knew it does not mean whole Arabia knew about Torah & Gospel . Those days are not like today everyone has access to all scriptures but then Scriptures could hardly be seen by a common Man and were hand written and were kept only by the top priests with themselves so whatever they said (true or false) people had to believe them. but Yes there were christians in Bahrain & Yemen (Najran)like in Medina (jews) but still 99 % pagan Arabs knew (Except Medina natives) nothing about Scriptures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbed View Post
    There is nothing in the Bible that can be taken as conclusive proof that Mohammed was prophesied as a prophet to come after Christ.
    The Bible warns us about the appearance of false prophets of which there will be many, and tells us how to know them. It does not tell us to look for a new prophet.
    If you can take all those verses (50/50) which can mean anything,'' Like I & my father are one '' '' I am the truth am the way '' as your Article & fundamentals of Faith which you claim made Jesus as God or son of god than why not those verses of Which means the Prophesy of the last Messenger ( deut 18:18 ''Altogether lovely ' in songs 5:16' John's ' comforter'' john 15:26 John 16:5-8, John 15:26-27,John 16:12-14, Isaiah 42) which clearly point at least 80 % to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then Why cant you take it ? Its rrrreally unfair,

    Who is a false Prophet ?
    Prophet(pbuh) did not lie Even during a eclipse of a Sun took place during his about 2 yrs old son Ibrahim (ra) died when people started boasting
    saying the Sun had eclipsed for the death of Prophet's Son but Prophet (pbuh) immediately refused (Sahih hadith)saying the sun does not eclipse for any persons death . If a false prophet was their he would have spoken even before the people spoke '' see O my people, The sun has gone dark in grief that My son had died ''

    Deuteronomy 18:21-22 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    21 You may be wondering, ‘How are we to know if a word has not been spoken by Adonai?’ 22 When a prophet speaks in the name of Adonai, and the prediction does not come true — that is, the word is not fulfilled — then Adonai did not speak that word. The prophet who said it spoke presumptuously; you have nothing to fear from him ''

    Prophet Muhammad has atleast & more than 240 prophesies and more than 80 % had already occur Proof : read the link http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...e-be-upon-him)



    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    Show me where Muhammad said the gospel Christians have is corrupted; show where Allah or the Quran state that. If you cannot show
    proof, you only proof one thing, and that is that you are just parroting what other Muslims have told you without doing your own
    research...
    We are taking effort & praying 5 times a day not for babbling about the Quran or the hadith here are few warnings about LYING in our books from our Prophet (pBuh)

    Sayyidina Jundub ibn Abdullah (RA) reported that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said, “If any one speaks on the Qur’an giving his own opinion and even if he is correct, he has done wrong.”[Abu Dawud 3652]

    The Prophet (?) said, "It is enough for a man to prove himself a liar when he goes on narrating whatever he hears." [Sahih Muslim]

    Ibn Abbas (RA) narrated that the Prophet (SAW) said, “Guard against narrating hadith fromme except what you know definitely. He who forges a lie against me deliberately must find his seat in the Fire.”[Ahmed 2675]

    Sayyidina Mughirah ibn Shu’bah (RA) reported that the Prophet (SAW) said, “If anyone narrates from me a hadith and thinks that it is a lie then he is one of the liars.”
    [Ahmed 18237,Muslim 4,Ibn Majah 41]

    Imam Ahmed whose hadith I have quoted above was lashed 100 times by The muslim king of his times just for not accepting the kings assumption that the Quran's word is a living thing (Makhlooq) because that's lie against the teachings of Prophet (pbuh)though that can GLORIFY the Noble Quran .while I quote hadith you would have noted me using '' something like '' just to avoid the Sin of not quoting exact words of Prophet(pbuh) fearing the above. So be sure none of the knowledgeable sincere Muslims are parroting like you say. i gave you list of Quran versesbut in Vain . i proved you though Parable that if fundamentals of a religion is assumption its nothing but like foundation of building made of Mud.



    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    How can she or anyone. The burden of proof is on you since you are making the claim of gospel corruption. Tell us when, where, who, how and why it was done. Who stands to benefit from risking their lives to say Jesus is God's son who died for our sin and rose from the dead to give us eternal life?

    Man , You even don't know who wrote the Gospels ? and you are asking us who tampered them , uh ?

    Noble Quran ''And We gave them clear proofs of the matter [of religion]. And they did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves.................... ''

    In other verses of Quran also refers the reason to take advantage on others and to make some money. by allowing interest , fats (unlawful ) etc

    But my genuine guess is PAUL, the SPY of the Jews is no 1 suspect, but i know you both are going stay to dig in your heels.


    There are few hadiths too but i could not locate them online and here is one for now


    Narrated 'Ubaidullah bin `Abdullah
    `Abdullah bin `Abbas said, "O the group of Muslims! How can you ask the people of the Scriptures about anything while your Book which Allah has revealed to your Prophet contains the most recent news from Allah and is pure and not distorted? Allah has told you that the people of the Scriptures have changed some of Allah's Books and distorted it and wrote something with their own hands and said, 'This is from Allah, so as to have a minor gain for it'. Won't the knowledge that has come to you stop you from asking them? No, by Allah, we have never seen a man from them asking you about that (the Book Al-Qur'an) which has been revealed to you."

    Abdullah ibn Abbas is Prophet s(Pbuh) own Paternal Uncle & highly honoured Martyr.The hadith comes from Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī (Volume 9, Book 93, Number 614).

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by hadmatter View Post
    you dont consider these 'nonsense errors' as a big deal as long as the "central message is still the same" so id say there is really nothing for me to prove. muslims simply have a higher standard for the conservation of Allah's books.
    yes, you do sister, but conservation is not proof of truth. For instance, someone can document Harry Potter a thousand years from now having the original book from when it was first written or a News Paper Co. can report the facts reliably for years and years, but that doesn't make it the word of God does it?

    Preservation & high standards is only a part of the equation; more is needed to make something truly from God. In the Bible we know what was added that wasn't part of the original manuscripts, because we didn't destroy our copies like many Qurans were burned by Uthman, but the facts are that we know the interpolations in the Bible, and we can removed them, but even if they weren't removed, it doesn't change the central gospel message that will be here until Jesus returns. No one can change that fact and truth!

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post


    We are taking effort & praying 5 times a day not for babbling about the Quran or the hadith here are few warnings about LYING in our books from our Prophet (pBuh)

    Sayyidina Jundub ibn Abdullah (RA) reported that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said, “If any one speaks on the Qur’an giving his own opinion and even if he is correct, he has done wrong.”[Abu Dawud 3652]

    The Prophet (?) said, "It is enough for a man to prove himself a liar when he goes on narrating whatever he hears." [Sahih Muslim]

    Ibn Abbas (RA) narrated that the Prophet (SAW) said, “Guard against narrating hadith fromme except what you know definitely. He who forges a lie against me deliberately must find his seat in the Fire.”[Ahmed 2675]

    Sayyidina Mughirah ibn Shu’bah (RA) reported that the Prophet (SAW) said, “If anyone narrates from me a hadith and thinks that it is a lie then he is one of the liars.”
    [Ahmed 18237,Muslim 4,Ibn Majah 41]

    Imam Ahmed whose hadith I have quoted above was lashed 100 times by The muslim king of his times just for not accepting the kings assumption that the Quran's word is a living thing (Makhlooq) because that's lie against the teachings of Prophet (pbuh)though that can GLORIFY the Noble Quran .while I quote hadith you would have noted me using '' something like '' just to avoid the Sin of not quoting exact words of Prophet(pbuh) fearing the above. So be sure none of the knowledgeable sincere Muslims are parroting like you say. i gave you list of Quran versesbut in Vain . i proved you though Parable that if fundamentals of a religion is assumption its nothing but like foundation of building made of Mud.[/COLOR]


    Man , You even don't know who wrote the Gospels ? and you are asking us who tampered them , uh ?

    Noble Quran ''And We gave them clear proofs of the matter [of religion]. And they did not differ except after knowledge had come to them out of jealous animosity between themselves.................... ''

    In other verses of Quran also refers the reason to take advantage on others and to make some money. by allowing interest , fats (unlawful ) etc

    But my genuine guess is PAUL, the SPY of the Jews is no 1 suspect, but i know you both are going stay to dig in your heels.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

    There are few hadiths too but i could not locate them online and here is one for now


    Narrated 'Ubaidullah bin `Abdullah
    `Abdullah bin `Abbas said, "O the group of Muslims! How can you ask the people of the Scriptures about anything while your Book which Allah has revealed to your Prophet contains the most recent news from Allah and is pure and not distorted? Allah has told you that the people of the Scriptures have changed some of Allah's Books and distorted it and wrote something with their own hands and said, 'This is from Allah, so as to have a minor gain for it'. Won't the knowledge that has come to you stop you from asking them? No, by Allah, we have never seen a man from them asking you about that (the Book Al-Qur'an) which has been revealed to you."

    Abdullah ibn Abbas is Prophet s(Pbuh) own Paternal Uncle & highly honoured Martyr.The hadith comes from Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī (Volume 9, Book 93, Number 614).[/COLOR]
    No one said any lies about the Quran by just asking to show where it states in the Quran the gospel is corrupted since that is what Christianity is built on. The burden of proof is on you, but since you don't know who wrote it, how can you give proof; and since you cannot give proof, why are you talking against the Sacred Scriptures? Finally, who made money from adding interpolations in the Bible and how did they make money?

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    No one said any lies about the Quran by just asking to show where it states in the Quran the gospel is corrupted since that is what Christianity is built on.
    Aj4u am getting to understand you more , your nature. In this same style you had quoted (something like ) '' The reaffirmation of the Noble Quran by Caliph Uthman(ra) did not use ''Memory '' but only the Original Text by Abubakr '' where you expect EXPLICITLY the word '' MEMORY'' which is not essential because Memory to affirming & writing of the Noble Quran is as essential as a Pen to writing. If there is no pen there is no writing, ( I hope you wont argue then how we get a computer print ? , lol)

    Similarly the Quran did say the Gospels are corrupted in multi ways the MOST IMPORTANT ( like a pen as in above case ) is the taking of Jesus as the Son of God and as One among Three that's why the Najran Christians ( A town of Yemen Where Christians were found) who visited Prophet to reconcile but were levied with Jizzya and continue their faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    The burden of proof is on you, but since you don't know who wrote it, how can you give proof; and since you cannot give proof, why are you talking against the Sacred Scriptures? Finally, who made money from adding interpolations in the Bible and how did they make money?
    Post my list (I gave you earlier) of Quran verses I gave atleast 5 or more I will prove what I claim since I have to locate them again. Don't you see from your Books the Jews had shops in the Synogogue where Jesus attended and he admonished them not to make the religious places a place to mint money ? Similarly there were corrupt mean in the name of Religion and Torah prohibited the use of fats but the shrewd People melted them as sold as Oil (hadith) i told you Interest its prohibited but they removed those verses So etc etc ways they ( learned religious people, Rabbis & priests Scribes) changed verses to make money. I will elaborate further if you post those verses.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post


    Aj4u am getting to understand you more , your nature. In this same style you had quoted (something like ) '' The reaffirmation of the Noble Quran by Caliph Uthman(ra) did not use ''Memory '' but only the Original Text by Abubakr '' where you expect EXPLICITLY the word '' MEMORY'' which is not essential because Memory to affirming & writing of the Noble Quran is as essential as a Pen to writing. If there is no pen there is no writing, ( I hope you wont argue then how we get a computer print ? , lol)
    True, no argument from me. Tell what you mean by you are getting to understand my nature more; that sounds interesting to me.

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Pagan practices in christianity:

    In any case, the Christianity which most people in the world associate with today was organized through the supervision of Emperor Constantine of Rome. By converting to Christianity after experiencing a miraculous incident, he Christianized the Roman Empire. By so doing, all the Roman colonies were compelled to Christianize. The official doctrine of Christianity was first formalized in 325 AD in the Council of Nicaea.



    Reasons for the Adoption of Pagan Practices







    As the church worked hard to spread Christianity in Europe, the Europeans resisted the effort to convert them. When the Roman Empire failed or collapsed, it was replaced by the Roman Catholic Church. As a result, the Roman Catholic Church became the Holy Roman Empire and the pope became the head of the empire. Thus, the pope simultaneously served as the spiritual head of the church and the political leader of the empire. The church carried out vigorous campaigns to Christianize Europe but the Europeans rebuffed the effort and continued their pre-Christian religious practices. Therefore, to facilitate or fasten Christianization, the Holy Roman Empire applied various strategies, including the adoption of pre-Christian pagan traditions, instituting the inquisition, engaging in crusades, declaring those who oppose the church as heretics and dealing with them uncompromisingly.






    It seems that Pope Gregory I was the first church leader to encourage the adoption of pagan ways. However, Pope Gregory III was the leader who concretized the adoption of the pre-Christian ways. As a result, the following pagan or pre-Christian European religious practices were adopted to make Christianity palatable to the Europeans:






    1. Easter originated from a Pre-Christian European religious tradition. The word “Easter” is derived from the name of an Anglo-Saxon goddess known as Eastre. A festival was always conducted in her honor during the vernal equinox as a way to celebrate the coming of spring. The Christians adopted it to celebrate the spiritual rebirth of Jesus Christ after the Good Friday.






    2. Lemuria: A Pre-Christian Roman ritual that was often celebrated to honor and placate the dead on May 13 of every year. To ensure conversion, the church initiated the “All Saints Day” to fall on the same day as the lemuria. Thus, the church used the All Saints Day to honor Christian saints just as the Romans used the Lemuria to honor the dead. The church, in order to reduce the impact of the paganistic celebration of Lemuria, moved the All Saints Day from May 13 to November 1 to reduce the effect of the celebration of Samhain, as indicated below.






    3. Samhain Night: A Pre-Christian Celtic ritual which normally takes place on October 31 of every year. The day is used to honor the spirits of the dead and other spirits. It was believed that the dead and other spirits roamed the earth on that night. The ancient druids (Celtic religious priests/priestesses or shamans) used the ritual to foretell or predict future events. Moreover, it was believed that it was possible for humans to experience other worldly beings that night. The Samhain is now referred to as the Halloween.






    4. The Night of Mystical Revelry: A night in which the ancient Romans celebrated Pomona – the goddess of Gardens and Harvest. The festival used to take place on 1st November of every year . The ritual was spread throughout most of Europe when Rome colonized the continent.






    The church combined the “The Night of Mystical Revelry with Samhain by establishing the “All Souls Day” on November 2 in the tenth century. Thus, the All Souls Day is dedicated to honoring all dead Christians, just as the Pre-Christians had done with the Samhain. For example, in today’s Mexico, while the Christians honor dead Christians, the Native Americans honor their dead in compliance with their non-Christian religion. Similarly, in some parts of Europe and the United States, the Halloween, which is the off-shoot of Samhain, continues to be celebrated.






    The church also helped to institutionalize and reinforce the “Trick and Treating” part of the ancient religious practices by encouraging Christians to offer prayers to uplift the souls of the dead from purgatory. In other words, just as the pre-Christian Celts and others offered prayers and gifts to the dead, spirits and God during harvests and when honoring the dead, the Christians too adopted the idea and hoped that dead Christians who were in purgatory would be helped to ascend unto heaven during the All Souls Day. Today, while the Christians celebrate the All Souls Day, both Christians and non-Christians celebrate the Halloween on October 31 by tricking and treating.






    By creating parallel Christian rituals to honor the dead, the church tactically made it possible for those who rejected Christianity to finally embrace it. To ensure the accepta






    nce of the religion, the church had to compromise some of its principles.


    However, in 1486, Pope Innocent VIII published a book indicating a connection between witchcraft and the devil. With this connection established, the Pope finally abolished the pre-Christian religions of Europe. This resulted in the enthroning of Christianity as the official religion in Europe and some parts of the Middle East and North Africa. Today, it has spread all over the world.





    Religion and Cultural Practices





    It appears that every religion is closely associated with the culture(s) it originates from. Resultantly, Constantinian Christianity is closely associated with Judeo/European cultures, Islam is associated with the Arabic culture, Hinduism is associated with the Hindu culture, Shintoism is connected to the Japanese culture and so forth. Since this seems to be the case, there are other facets of Christianity that are by-products of the cultures of its origin. In this regard, the following beliefs and practices are also adopted into Christianity from pre-existing cultures:






    1. The idea of a founding ancestor or leader emanating from God is also a pre-Christian tradition. In other words, the idea of a founding individual being the son of God is borrowed from an old religious tradition. There are many instances to cite from.






    a. The Pharaoh Akhenaten of ancient Egypt was believed to have descended from a sun God known as Aten.


    b. The Dogon ethnic group in Mali believed to have descended from Nammo who was created by the sky God Amma.


    c. The Norse (Viking and or Scandinavian people ) believed that their thunder god Thor was the procreation or a product of a Protector God and a human mother. In this case, a sky deity mingled with a human woman to produce the powerful hero ancestor.


    d. The Chinese believed that they are the descendants of a sky God known as Huang Di. He is believed to have descended from heaven on a flying dragon to help create the first Chinese Empire. After he had successfully done so, he flew back into the heavens on the back or belly of a flying dragon.


    e. The Greeks have many stories of gods intermingling with earthly women to produce extraordinary beings. For instance, Hercules is believed to have been a product of a deity (Zeus) and an earthly woman.


    f. The Zuni ethnic group (Native American) in the United States believed that they are descendants of sky people known as the “Kechinas.”


    g. The Cherokees (Native American) people also believed that they are descendants of sky people known as “Makavians.”






    2. The concept of monotheism (one God) was conceptualized and practiced in Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Israel before the Christians adopted it through Judaism. Evidence gathered from the discovery of the Migdol Temple in Amman, Jordan confirms the fact that various groups were preaching and practicing monotheism.






    3. The Christian belief in the universality of mankind and the need to “love thy neighbor as either self” is greatly influenced by the philosophy of stoicism which existed in the Greco-Roman world before the emergence of Christianity. It actually began in the 3rd BC.






    4. The cross is a pre-Christian religious symbol that the Christians adopted. The Egyptians, Indians, and Native Americans used it in their traditional religions before Christianity.






    5. The symbolic eating of the bread and drinking of the wine to reflect the body and blood of Jesus Christ during Christian communion, especially in the Roman Catholic Church, is greatly influenced by pre-Christian religious practices. The ancient Egyptians started the idea when the body of Osiris was consumed symbolically by the priest to attune with the spirit of the god.






    Thus, the idea of God or a Supreme Intelligence sending down someone or procreating an extraordinary human being to help move the world in a certain direction is very pre-Christian. It was adopted during the Council of Nicaea Conference to spell out the principles that constitute Christianity.




    Conclusion






    While many Christian principles and practices cannot be found in the Bible, they have become part of the accepted rituals performed by Christians throughout the year. They become part of the beliefs and practices of the religion because during its formative years, it was not accepted by a majority of the European population despite the vigorous efforts of the church to convert them. To thrive and gain adherents, it had to adopt some of the pre-Christian religious beliefs and practices that existed in Europe. So, Christian leaders, throughout the ages, adapted very strategically. Thus, Christmas Day (December 25) is one of the pre-Christian celebrations that Christian leaders adopted in order to encourage conversion to Christianity, even though Jesus Christ was not biologically born on that day.




    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    No one said any lies about the Quran by just asking to show where it states in the Quran the gospel is corrupted since that is what Christianity is built on. The burden of proof is on you, but since you don't know who wrote it, how can you give proof; and since you cannot give proof, why are you talking against the Sacred Scriptures? Finally, who made money from adding interpolations in the Bible and how did they make money?
    ".......He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them (kuffar) their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy.Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it;but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief."(5:64)

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    Re: VEDAS foretells About Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    Roman kingdom was in danger so they introduced their pre christian beliefs in christianity which now is the basis of today s christianity.It was struggle for power they got.
    ".......He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them (kuffar) their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy.Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it;but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief."(5:64)

 

 

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